USMNT Summer 2024: Beauty is in the Eye of the Berhalter

DJnVa

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Midfielder Weston McKennie is open-minded about next steps but would be happy to continue playing for Berhalter if that is the direction that is decided.

“I believe we all have a comfort with Gregg and we all understand him and we’ve had him for a long time,” he told The Athletic. “He’s progressed the team very far from where we started off four or five years ago.
Maybe that's enough with the "comfort" boys.
 

sezwho

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Maybe that's enough with the "comfort" boys.
Speaking of comfort, why do we get undone when the a cheap shots come? Frankly, that’s my takeaway: if you start crushing our scrawny little fellows (Balogun and Pulisic) or even take a full run at the goalie then we turtle. They were taken off their game and failed to sustain intensity after Uruguay mucked it up.

In each of the last two games, we’ve had stars unable to finish game because of goonery and no one paid a price in any way: scoreboard or otherwise. Concacaf and Conmebol are bloodbaths of shithouse-ness and we aren’t mentally or physically up for it.

Edit - I also feel like some of those wins against Mexico that helped build my confidence in this team are looking much less impressive in hindsight.
 
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Cellar-Door

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https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/40479596/var-review-uruguay-goal-united-states-onside-offside

Interesting ESPN article on why the goal was allowed due to use of the older VAR, and why the camera angle (as always) lies.

Basically the takeaway is... the camera angles are terrible and useless, the new VAR is much better, and the old VAR a tie goes to the attacker, and the old VAR the lines intersect at one point so they awarded the goal, if it had been the newer version they likely rule it out because it can more reliably track tiny gaps.
 

Cellar-Door

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Speaking of comfort, why do we get undone when the a cheap shots come? Frankly, that’s my takeaway: if you start crushing our scrawny little fellows (Balogun and Pulisic) or even take a full run at the goalie then we turtle. They were taken off their game and failed to sustain intensity after Uruguay mucked it up.

In each of the last two games, we’ve had stars unable to finish game because of goonery and no one paid a price in any way: scoreboard or otherwise. Concacaf and Conmebol are bloodbaths of shithouse-ness and we aren’t mentally or physically up for it.
Meh, we hacked as much as we got last night, Balo elbowed a guy in the face busting him open and got nothing, I remember a play where Adams basically football tackled a defender out of bounds to keep him from getting back in the play. What we are bad at is... playing effectively if falling down isn't going to get a call. Late in the match there were a number of times when our attackers (Pulisic notably) just flopped into good tackles or the kind of bumps that were allowed all night and whined instead of trying to score.
I think it's a little overblown though, because we can't create against defenses that aren't physical either, and that is the concern, there is just no coherent strategy of how to score. We act like a Moyesian sit and counter group in defense, and a 3rd rate version of pass it around on offense with no connection between the two.
 

rguilmar

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Speaking of comfort, why do we get undone when the a cheap shots come? Frankly, that’s my takeaway: if you start crushing our scrawny little fellows (Balogun and Pulisic) or even take a full run at the goalie then we turtle. They were taken off their game and failed to sustain intensity after Uruguay mucked it up.

In each of the last two games, we’ve had stars unable to finish game because of goonery and no one paid a price in any way: scoreboard or otherwise. Concacaf and Conmebol are bloodbaths of shithouse-ness and we aren’t mentally or physically up for it.
It felt like an equally physical game with both teams giving as good as they took. Balo likely got hurt on an ill advised but not dirty tackle by Araujo that would’ve been a penalty had the striker been onside. I can’t remember too much in the way of dirty play, and the most questionable tackles were by the US. Getting caught up in these games within the game can do more harm than good by distracting players from what they should be doing.
 

Pesky Pole

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The Berhalter era will hopefully come to a close after their early exit. I know there will be some focus on the red card and the refereeing but you only need to go back to the Bolivia or Colombia games to see the fractures were already there. They should have beaten Bolivia 4-0 and had a significant goal differential advantage. The team is clearly capable of a spirited rebound performance (like Brazil or even last night to an extent) but the overall cohesion and game plan are just not there to score goals.

Whoever takes the job next needs to get into agents' ears as well. We can't have players who don't play enough in the mix. I thought Reyna looked good this cycle but he is limited by not getting any minutes. Thankfully Pulisic and McKennie have rebounded and found spots but both had similar issues. Dest and Adams have maybe found spots but can't stay on the field. Weah at Juventus and Musah at Milan are still a question. Leading up to 2026, it would be nice to have our best players be nailed on starters. I honestly don't know how much a national team manager can influence this but I've certainly seen the loan scrambles in other federations leading up to major tournaments. Maybe others can comment on this.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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I was glad to see the intensity last night, but the team lacked the ability to actually create anything close to goal scoring chances. That was a game that Uruguay likes to play and will win more often than not.

I’ve registered my complaints about GGG often enough. I do hope that they look to bring someone in who understands how chances are created in today’s game. Under Gregg, the US seemed to allow other teams to get chances too easily, whether through bad giveaways or momentarily losing focus. We never looked able to create much in the way of chances in transition, where most goal scoring chances come from, and were overly reliant on ineffective crosses (there are ways to effectively create chances with crosses, like Spain has been doing in the Euros, but the US hasn’t done that). One hallmark of the USMNT pre-GGG was goals from set pieces, and those really dried up. I do think that the US looked better on set pieces and corners lately, but for too long it’s felt like the coaching staff has been more concerned stroking the ego of our top player at the expense of better chance creation from set pieces. Not saying that CP demanded to take free kicks and corners, just that the coaching staff went to the high school coach mentality of “well, he’s our best player so we should let me do it.”

Goals come from transitions/turnovers and set pieces. The US has been poor at these on both sides of the ball for too long under Gregg. Time to move on.
I don't watch the USMNT much outside the major tournaments but this scans from what I have seen in that limited sample. GGG sets the team up to be better at possessing the ball and nothing else. There's not really a Plan A for how to score goals, let alone a Plan B, C, D, etc. Two of the three goals we scored this tournament were absolute worldies from distance, each probably with XG of .02 or something.

I would actually argue that the tendencies you point to in general re how goals are scored seem to be magnified these days in international play. It feels like very few sides in the Euros (beyond Spain) have been able to consistently create chances from open play, especially from settled possession. Its easier to get everybody rowing in the same direction on defense than to get a bunch of players from different club environments to play instinctive, cohesive, movement laden possession football in the final third. Teams like France and England with much more talent than the US are struggling mightily to create a chance from open play once they have settled possession when facing an organized defense. The US banking on cracking that nut against good defensive teams is just a recipe for failure. This is all the more reason to do what you suggest - develop a different kind of plan than the most vanilla possession football possible, whether that's pressing high to generate goals off turnovers, putting a lot more focus on set pieces, or even to play a lot of long balls to a target man striker and look for knockdowns off him.
 
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Titans Bastard

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As noted above, fire Greg.

Now with that said, 3 games is a very small sample, and it's not like Canada's group was a murders row. They were able to find a way through while scoring 1 goal, which shows they had a solid plan and were able to execute it.
This has nothing to do with Berhalter or the USMNT, but Canada got really lucky in this tournament. They scored one goal while spending MORE of the group stage playing 11v 10 than 11 v 11. Peru got a red card in the 59th minute and Chile got a red card in the 27th minute.
 

sezwho

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It felt like an equally physical game with both teams giving as good as they took. Balo likely got hurt on an ill advised but not dirty tackle by Araujo that would’ve been a penalty had the striker been onside. I can’t remember too much in the way of dirty play, and the most questionable tackles were by the US. Getting caught up in these games within the game can do more harm than good by distracting players from what they should be doing.
Fair enough, thanks. I appreciate that and from @Cellar-Door as well (edit).

I think by total foul count that aligns (looking for post game stats on this). It was my impression that Uruguay was playing this way out of purpose and by design, specifically to take the US out of what appeared to be their early advantage. It worked and by the second half the US was reacting unprofessionally and the game was choppy as F.

If we matched their physicality, it was only by lowering ourselves and playing the game they wanted to play. Really appreciate the much more seasoned opinions here, as I am oddly only a USMNT fan that has rediscovered soccer fandom the last couple years lost since giving up the game in my mid teens (no loss to anyone:))
 

Silverdude2167

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Amstredam

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Just bummed about last night. Credit to Uruguay who play a tough defensive game. There were a handful of small chances, but to me the US still looks like a squad that's not used to playing at the highest levels. The most glaring example was Haji Wright taking forever on a chance in the box late in the game that was blocked by a defender. But it's also Weah getting a dumb RC and not handling bad reffing (last night was HORRIBAD) well.

The other thing that stands out is the lack of depth. Going into the match, my buddies and I were saying the XI was pretty strong, but that the bench had next to nothing. Pepi actually did alright, but depending on him, Haji Wright, and Josh Sargent for a spark isn't inspiring.

GGG needs to go. More so because international managers need to be replaced after each 4-year cycle max. But there wasn't a great plan for any of these games. I look at Southgate at England and even Deschamps at France and I say those guys should've been replaced too. England are extremely fortunate to have progressed, even though they have one of the most talented squads in the world. Didier keeps nicking results so there's no one really pushing him to leave, but the fact that this France team doesn't score much with their plethora of attacking players is just plain sad. Argentina have been the only side to push them in high scoring games (WC 2018 and 2022) and that's when France have truly impressed. Although I'll give a nod to their 4-1 win over a strong Australia side in the group stage in 2022.
 

OCST

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Not in anyway gloating, but shocking to me Canada advanced and USA did not.
Gloat if you want, but it's not shocking that Canada advanced. Canada had their turn in the stocks after their horrendous performance at the Qatar WC, and are now playing closer to their ceiling. Canada is a tough out if they're playing like they can/should.
 

teddykgb

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I don't watch the USMNT much outside the major tournaments but this scans from what I have seen in that limited sample. GGG sets the team up to be better at possessing the ball and nothing else. There's not really a Plan A for how to score goals, let alone a Plan B, C, D, etc. Two of the three goals we scored this tournament were absolute worldies from distance, each probably with XG of .02 or something.

I would actually argue that the tendencies you point to in general re how goals are scored seem to be magnified these days in international play. It feels like very few sides in the Euros (beyond Spain) have been able to consistently create chances from open play, especially from settled possession. Its easier to get everybody rowing in the same direction on defense than to get a bunch of players from different club environments to play instinctive, cohesive, movement laden possession football in the final third. Teams like France and England with much more talent than the US are struggling mightily to create a chance from open play once they have settled possession when facing an organized defense. The US banking on cracking that nut against good defensive teams is just a recipe for failure. This is all the more reason to do what you suggest - develop a different kind of plan than the most vanilla possession football possible, whether that's pressing high to generate goals off turnovers, putting a lot more focus on set pieces, or even to play a lot of long balls to a target man striker and look for knockdowns off him.
I think this is really insightful. Cohesive attacking is probably always a difficulty for international football, but it does seem like few international teams are achieving it. You could add Portugal and Brazil to this list and maybe even Belgium as well. Uruguay have been able to generate attacking via an aggressive press. Spain has seemed capable of consistent generation, I haven’t really watched Germany. Maybe it would make sense to look for data of team xG trends over time to see if there’s an actual reduction in chance creation. I could hypothesize that football has refined itself in so many tactical and physical fitness areas that international football may result in defensive styles having the upper hand.
 

Jimy Hendrix

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Gloat if you want, but it's not shocking that Canada advanced. Canada had their turn in the stocks after their horrendous performance at the Qatar WC, and are now playing closer to their ceiling. Canada is a tough out if they're playing like they can/should.
They're not really, like the US, they were having a ton of trouble generating offense too, 1 goal in the whole group stage, much with a man advantage. Did enough to advance though, which is more than the US or Mexico can say.
 

OCST

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I don't watch the USMNT much outside the major tournaments but this scans from what I have seen in that limited sample. GGG sets the team up to be better at possessing the ball and nothing else. There's not really a Plan A for how to score goals, let alone a Plan B, C, D, etc. Two of the three goals we scored this tournament were absolute worldies from distance, each probably with XG of .02 or something.

I would actually argue that the tendencies you point to in general re how goals are scored seem to be magnified these days in international play. It feels like very few sides in the Euros (beyond Spain) have been able to consistently create chances from open play, especially from settled possession. Its easier to get everybody rowing in the same direction on defense than to get a bunch of players from different club environments to play instinctive, cohesive, movement laden possession football in the final third. Teams like France and England with much more talent than the US are struggling mightily to create a chance from open play once they have settled possession when facing an organized defense. The US banking on cracking that nut against good defensive teams is just a recipe for failure. This is all the more reason to do what you suggest - develop a different kind of plan than the most vanilla possession football possible, whether that's pressing high to generate goals off turnovers, putting a lot more focus on set pieces, or even to play a lot of long balls to a target man striker and look for knockdowns off him.
Agreed.

And I'll ask this question to the group, because I don't know the answer. So many of our good attackers now play in leagues that I don't watch that much, so I don't have a feel for their games.

How should this team be set up to score goals? What would you do? Lineup? Formation? Tactics - attacking fullbacks, speedy wings, a classic 10 that can break lines with laser passes, crosses into a big 9, what???
 

OCST

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Trading cheap shots for cheap shots is part of dealing with a team of shithousers, and we did enough of that.

The imperatives are 1) not to lose your cool, and 2) not to let the ankle-stompers dictate the game. On those, we failed.
 

Jimy Hendrix

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Trading cheap shots for cheap shots is part of dealing with a team of shithousers, and we did enough of that.

The imperatives are 1) not to lose your cool, and 2) not to let the ankle-stompers dictate the game. On those, we failed.
The first 20 minutes were promising, felt like “fine, you keep giving us this identical free kick, we’ll score one of ‘em”. Then kinda faded out.
 

67YAZ

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The Twitterati keep harping on Gregg telling the team that Bolivia tied up Panama and then the US conceded quickly after. I don't think there is a cause and effect there, but man - play to win. It's still 0-0 with so much time left. Don't worry about what's happening anywhere else, just focus on the match at hand.
 

rguilmar

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I don't watch the USMNT much outside the major tournaments but this scans from what I have seen in that limited sample. GGG sets the team up to be better at possessing the ball and nothing else. There's not really a Plan A for how to score goals, let alone a Plan B, C, D, etc. Two of the three goals we scored this tournament were absolute worldies from distance, each probably with XG of .02 or something.

I would actually argue that the tendencies you point to in general re how goals are scored seem to be magnified these days in international play. It feels like very few sides in the Euros (beyond Spain) have been able to consistently create chances from open play, especially from settled possession. Its easier to get everybody rowing in the same direction on defense than to get a bunch of players from different club environments to play instinctive, cohesive, movement laden possession football in the final third. Teams like France and England with much more talent than the US are struggling mightily to create a chance from open play once they have settled possession when facing an organized defense. The US banking on cracking that nut against good defensive teams is just a recipe for failure. This is all the more reason to do what you suggest - develop a different kind of plan than the most vanilla possession football possible, whether that's pressing high to generate goals off turnovers, putting a lot more focus on set pieces, or even to play a lot of long balls to a target man striker and look for knockdowns off him.
I agree with all of this. The game in general is more about a transition attack and set pieces, and that is especially true at the international level where lack of playing time makes it more difficult to implement an intricate system of play.

Spain is an interesting case, and obviously a team I follow closely. Spain for a long time had the same problem that the USMNT has. They could knock it around but not really create chances, and were forced into getting in lofted crosses by overlapping fullbacks on almost every attack. It was so easy to defend, and frustrating as hell to watch. There were games where Spain literally completed 1000 passes but generated very little. Even I was falling asleep in these games. Things are different now. They are able to create chances from open play by getting the ball to their wingers in good one on one positions. Teams can either overreact and give help, opening up space for guys like Fabian and Rodri to get off good shots in the middle, or they risk leaving the wingers 1 on 1 where they can create for themselves or get in a dangerous cross (often hit hard and curling in, not lofted) with the attackers and midfielders crashing the box. They don’t need to have the ball 80% of the game anymore and even lost the possession battle to Croatia in a game they won 3-0.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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I think this is really insightful. Cohesive attacking is probably always a difficulty for international football, but it does seem like few international teams are achieving it. You could add Portugal and Brazil to this list and maybe even Belgium as well. Uruguay have been able to generate attacking via an aggressive press. Spain has seemed capable of consistent generation, I haven’t really watched Germany. Maybe it would make sense to look for data of team xG trends over time to see if there’s an actual reduction in chance creation. I could hypothesize that football has refined itself in so many tactical and physical fitness areas that international football may result in defensive styles having the upper hand.
I think that's probably right. And the strategic implication is that you shouldn't try to be a possession-dominant side unless you really have superior talent (and even then it might not be a good idea). Accept who you are and think up a different idea. Austria and Romania are other good examples here similar to Uruguay: Both having a great Euros by generating a lot off the high press and/or playing very direct when winning the ball.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Beyond just the quick start.. the ball moved forward about 10’ from where the foul occurred.. should have been stopped just for that.
So many things wrong in this sequence!

-Once you whip out the card, there obviously can't be a quick restart. Any other ruling is straight up crazy. And as you point out the restart wasn't in the right place either.

-But once Uruguay restart he then signals advantage as if the whistle was never blown and play never stopped in the first place, which is even crazier!

-And even if there was advantage played then there would obviously be a handball foul since the Uruguay player stopped it with his hand so that he could restart from a stationary ball.

I sort of wish the goal was scored because then we would have gotten the comedy of the VAR review.
 

Jimy Hendrix

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A match that made me go “say what you will about Ivan Barton’s insane match management style, but at least he knows the rules!”
 

lars10

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Maybe that's enough with the "comfort" boys.
The players are left in a tough spot.. their manager seems to have full support of the management of the USMNT.. so any making any statements critical of ggg seems like a chance to lose PT.
 

lars10

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So many things wrong in this sequence!

-Once you whip out the card, there obviously can't be a quick restart. Any other ruling is straight up crazy. And as you point out the restart wasn't in the right place either.

-But once Uruguay restart he then signals advantage as if the whistle was never blown and play never stopped in the first place, which is even crazier!

-And even if there was advantage played then there would obviously be a handball foul since the Uruguay player stopped it with his hand so that he could restart from a stationary ball.

I sort of wish the goal was scored because then we would have gotten the comedy of the VAR review.
The reffing in this sequence is easily explained if the geico commercial is actually reality.
 

teddykgb

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I think that's probably right. And the strategic implication is that you shouldn't try to be a possession-dominant side unless you really have superior talent (and even then it might not be a good idea). Accept who you are and think up a different idea. Austria and Romania are other good examples here similar to Uruguay: Both having a great Euros by generating a lot off the high press and/or playing very direct when winning the ball.
Spain would be the natural rejoinder — they’re basically playing Peps Bayern tactics with tricky wingers getting isolated via possession and pressing that advantage to create. They’re doing this with young but super talented wingers but it’s clearly to some extent possible.

It will be interesting to see what happens when these aggressive press/counter press styles meet one another. Someone needs to have the ball for the press cycle to work and it could be almost a war of attrition of who takes the risk of taking more of the ball and loses their major attacking advantage in the process
 

DJnVa

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The players are left in a tough spot.. their manager seems to have full support of the management of the USMNT.. so any making any statements critical of ggg seems like a chance to lose PT.
Maybe? But guys like Pulisic aren't in any danger there. Of course, what they say to the press might not be the same as what they say behind closed doors.

And, I don't know if it's safe to say Berhalter has the full support any longer. That might not mean he's gone, but even USSF knows this was a disaster.
 

Senator Donut

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A lot of the more measured media voices in American soccer are calling for Gregg to be fired, including Jon Arnold. Elsewhere, he wrote about his five reasons the USMNT failed. I thought reason five was particularly salient.

Forgetting That Fight​
U.S. fans of a certain age can remember the team going into contests with an underdog mentality and playing freely, facing teams like Spain without fear in the 2009 Confederations Cup, knocking Mexico out of the World Cup with a young Landon Donovan (along with center back Gregg Berhalter) in 2002 or even getting to the 1990 World Cup thanks to Paul Caligiuri's goal in Port of Spain to beat Trinidad and Tobago in 1989.​
For many years, that was the hallmark of the national team. They might not be the most talented team, but they would fight and scrap for a result. They'd be David with a slingshot trying to take down Goliath.​
Now, the team has the talent and prestige to match. Players are getting consistent minutes with UEFA Champions League clubs like AC Milan, Juventus and PSV Eindhoven, while others start in the Premier League or La Liga. But somewhere in that transition, it looks to have lost the fire.​
In the end, that's what U.S. fans should want to see most: A team that represents them with heart, with a bit of daring and one that always feels like it can find a way to the next round.​
U.S. Soccer's review may find differently, but in the hours after the early elimination from the Copa América, it's difficult to imagine Berhalter leading the way for the team.​

Matt Besler also made comments before the loss about what he perceives to be a lack of leads among US players.

View: https://twitter.com/meninblazers/status/1807606020878868768


I think he makes a lot of great points. There's a reason why Besler's teams were no less successful the current "golden generation," despite a huge upgrade in club prestige. No one is arguing for a return to a more domestically-based team (though I'll note that the winning side had more MLS players on the pitch last night) but as our talent heads to Europe at a younger age, they rarely put into a position to lead until they wear the USA badge.

The current leadership vacuum combined with a player-friendly manager is a bad combination. Furthermore, Gregg does not posses an amazing tactical acumen to overcome these issue. His players-first style is probably the exact opposite of what this side needs right now.

I haven't watched much of the copa beyond the US games, but um are the refs terrible? They seem to be much worse than the Euros, does CONMEBOL have an officiating problem?
CONMEBOL is CONCACAF with better players.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Agreed.

And I'll ask this question to the group, because I don't know the answer. So many of our good attackers now play in leagues that I don't watch that much, so I don't have a feel for their games.

How should this team be set up to score goals? What would you do? Lineup? Formation? Tactics - attacking fullbacks, speedy wings, a classic 10 that can break lines with laser passes, crosses into a big 9, what???
Because of how bad our ideas are in attacking any kind of organized defense I feel compelled to say to lean into our athleticism and high press to force midfield turnovers and generate quick counters with numbers.

I’d love to be able to say just stick Gio at the 10 and let him cook but if we don’t know how to make offball runs anyway then that’s kind of fruitless.

Edit: I also think some issues are exacerbated by the fact that some of our top talents just haven’t had as much time with the core group. Balogun is still relatively new to the program and Gio has not been healthy so there remains some disconnect there.
 

teddykgb

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I think speed is a major part of the conversation. Pulisic is not quite as speedy as he used to be, Reyna isn’t fast, nor is Balogun or Pepi really. Musah and McKennie aren’t rapid either. Not to say these players are slow, just that playing a high press and counter really requires that you can close spaces fast and take advantage of the space you momentarily get. Felt like last night when we did create the opportunities to break we either ran into an outnumbered situation or got caught from behind. I don’t remember the name of Uruguays MLS winger but he was fucking rapid and that helps an awful lot when you do create that turnover to preserve the chaos you’ve created and force these back lines to lose shape and stretch. We have this core that’s probably more possession built just from a foot speed perspective excepting maybe Robinson and Weah. So would the team even be that successful playing it differently?
 

Cellar-Door

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Maybe? But guys like Pulisic aren't in any danger there. Of course, what they say to the press might not be the same as what they say behind closed doors.

And, I don't know if it's safe to say Berhalter has the full support any longer. That might not mean he's gone, but even USSF knows this was a disaster.
Yeah I don't think that any player is saying they want Gregg because they fear USSF.
I think they want Gregg because he's a guy they like, he's predictable and there are no consequences.....
Play like crap.... oh well we had some tough luck.
Get a red card... he'll do better next time
Wrong end of any ref decisions.... things went against us, can't control that

None of these players have any fear that Gregg will drop them, or criticize them, or make them uncomfortable.

We compare to Bielsa a lot because he's a premier INT manager who has worked wonders for multiple countries, but......

Bielsa would have shaken up the squad, he'd have probably left out some of the skill players for high motor physical guys, he'd have rotated out players who didn't do what he asked, he'd put a brutal camp on and weed out the weak. You either get with his program, in which case he'll improve you as a player and the squad, or he'll ship you out.

I was watching ESPN FC and Alejandro Moreno (former Venezuela international) said something.... the players shouldn't be vouching for the coach or picking the coach. The coach shouldn't be your friend, he's the boss, you should sit up a little straighter when he enters the room, there should be respect, but also a little edge of fear.

Edit- the depressing thing is, the ESPN FC guys (Moreno, Kasey Keller, Hercules Gomez) all agreed they don't think USSF makes a change. Keller said they'd have a bunch of meetings (he's the least "Gregg must go" of the group), Moreno said he's realized that the way the US works is they wait for attention to die down then paper over, because there isn't the kind of wide public pressure of elsewhere, Gomez said... "USSF loves a meeting with a powerpoint, and Gregg can make a hell of a powerpoint"... Overall though seemed like a resignation that USSF isn't a serious organization and they weren't going to do anything but dither then say it was too close to the WC to make a change in 3 months when they finish their review.
 

rguilmar

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A lot of the more measured media voices in American soccer are calling for Gregg to be fired, including Jon Arnold. Elsewhere, he wrote about his five reasons the USMNT failed. I thought reason five was particularly salient.

Forgetting That Fight​
U.S. fans of a certain age can remember the team going into contests with an underdog mentality and playing freely, facing teams like Spain without fear in the 2009 Confederations Cup, knocking Mexico out of the World Cup with a young Landon Donovan (along with center back Gregg Berhalter) in 2002 or even getting to the 1990 World Cup thanks to Paul Caligiuri's goal in Port of Spain to beat Trinidad and Tobago in 1989.​
For many years, that was the hallmark of the national team. They might not be the most talented team, but they would fight and scrap for a result. They'd be David with a slingshot trying to take down Goliath.​
Now, the team has the talent and prestige to match. Players are getting consistent minutes with UEFA Champions League clubs like AC Milan, Juventus and PSV Eindhoven, while others start in the Premier League or La Liga. But somewhere in that transition, it looks to have lost the fire.​
In the end, that's what U.S. fans should want to see most: A team that represents them with heart, with a bit of daring and one that always feels like it can find a way to the next round.​
U.S. Soccer's review may find differently, but in the hours after the early elimination from the Copa América, it's difficult to imagine Berhalter leading the way for the team.​

Matt Besler also made comments before the loss about what he perceives to be a lack of leads among US players.

View: https://twitter.com/meninblazers/status/1807606020878868768


I think he makes a lot of great points. There's a reason why Besler's teams were no less successful the current "golden generation," despite a huge upgrade in club prestige. No one is arguing for a return to a more domestically-based team (though I'll note that the winning side had more MLS players on the pitch last night) but as our talent heads to Europe at a younger age, they rarely put into a position to lead until they wear the USA badge.

The current leadership vacuum combined with a player-friendly manager is a bad combination. Furthermore, Gregg does not posses an amazing tactical acumen to overcome these issue. His players-first style is probably the exact opposite of what this side needs right now.


CONMEBOL is CONCACAF with better players.
I wonder how much of this is how much pressure is on the foreign based players week in, week out. They have to perform well or risk losing their role on the club. A player at the level of the national team playing in MLS will never lose their starting spot. The same player at a higher level will eventually lose their starting spot with a bad performance or two. Losing a game means players cannot go out in public without facing the wrath of the fans. The pressure to perform is insane. In recent years, we’ve seen Weston McKennie lose not only his spot on the team, but his literal spot in the parking lot at Juve’s practice facility and his locker. We’ve seen Yunus Musah have to drive on the sidewalk to get away from an angry group of ultras in Valencia. Several of Konrad’s games at Marseille were impacted by fans storming the pitch. Same deal with Pepi at Groningen. It’s nonstop pressure. Joining up with the USMNT is almost like a vacation by comparison, whereas it’s a step up in pressure for guys playing in MLS.

For players representing other countries, the pressure becomes even more intense at the national team level, and they certainly play like it. We’ve all seen what it does to these men. It’s crushing at times. The insane pressure breaks players. In Captains of the World on Netflix, Thiago Silva told Kovacic that he couldn’t go back to Brazil after Croatia knocked them out of the World Cup because of how he’d be treated, and he’s a popular and well respected player.
 

DJnVa

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Liverpool writer from The Athletic had a chat and someone asked about Klopp:

 

ThePrideofShiner

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Even I think it is time for Berhalter to go, but that is more because I don't like having the same manager for two cycles.

That said, I agree with what @Senator Donut alluded to above and take it a step further, it's not even so much about leadership issues for the players. It's like they think just because they are in Europe they are good to go. If this truly is our golden generation that says more about the history of our soccer than anything. What have these players accomplished in their careers? Half of them don't even play, they are just on European rosters.

No matter who the coach is for the World Cup, it's hard to get excited when this team is full of mental midgets, who don't get consistent playing time for their clubs, who are oft-injured and don't even have the traditional American grit to fall back on.
 

teddykgb

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Yeah I think while it’s great a lot of our players have made it over to Europe, they’ve by and large made disastrous choices and haven’t pushed on the way they might have. Pulisic to Chelsea was stupid, Turner to Arsenal was even dumber. McKennie was probably in a good place in Germany but Juve was probably too big. Pepi tried to skip like 4 levels with his move to Germany. It’s like the pendulum swung the other way and instead of our best players being in MLS our best players decided to go drown in Europes best clubs. No matter what players need to play. It feels like I’ve been scratching my head at most of the US player transfers over the last 5 years. Then you have a guy like Robinson who found his feet in the Championship and grew into a steady Premier league player. If Pulisic had to come to the premier league, he had to go to like West Ham or Palace first. Just like Kudus and Eze had to prove themselves. But really he should have been mid table in Italy or Spain first. We have talented players capable of playing in Europe now, which is great, but we still don’t have players who belong at the top 30 or so clubs in Europe by and large. So maybe I’m talking myself into this idea that their roles in Europe are too niche and they aren’t required to carry their team in a way that develops them for international play. I just don’t think I’d solve that problem by being big dogs in MLS as much as prioritizing being key cogs on lesser European teams even outside of the top division
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Yeah I think while it’s great a lot of our players have made it over to Europe, they’ve by and large made disastrous choices and haven’t pushed on the way they might have. Pulisic to Chelsea was stupid, Turner to Arsenal was even dumber. McKennie was probably in a good place in Germany but Juve was probably too big. Pepi tried to skip like 4 levels with his move to Germany. It’s like the pendulum swung the other way and instead of our best players being in MLS our best players decided to go drown in Europes best clubs. No matter what players need to play. It feels like I’ve been scratching my head at most of the US player transfers over the last 5 years. Then you have a guy like Robinson who found his feet in the Championship and grew into a steady Premier league player. If Pulisic had to come to the premier league, he had to go to like West Ham or Palace first. Just like Kudus and Eze had to prove themselves. But really he should have been mid table in Italy or Spain first. We have talented players capable of playing in Europe now, which is great, but we still don’t have players who belong at the top 30 or so clubs in Europe by and large. So maybe I’m talking myself into this idea that their roles in Europe are too niche and they aren’t required to carry their team in a way that develops them for international play. I just don’t think I’d solve that problem by being big dogs in MLS as much as prioritizing being key cogs on lesser European teams even outside of the top division
Honestly, I wonder how much of the recruitment of some of these players was driven by marketing concerns, with every big club eyeing the American market as this untapped commercial goldmine and thinking that adding an American player might help raise their profile/boost their commercial appeal.

Transfers happen for all sorts of reasons but moves like Turner to Arsenal and Dest to Barcelona never made any footballing sense at all. Turner's biggest weakness is his feet and he was recruited by a club that otherwise has made playing with feet the sine qua non for goalkeepers. Dest played half a season at Ajax and was thrown into Barcelona at age 19 when he was nowhere near that level. I just can't wrap my head around the theory that Barcelona's scouting apparatus scoured the entire universe of young RBs available for purchase in that price bracket and landed on Dest solely based on footballing reasons.

It is hard to blame the players for accepting a move to a massive club because it's everybody's dream and these guys are competitors so they'll back themselves. But it's an unfortunate dynamic and probably not great for their development.
 

67YAZ

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It is hard to blame the players for accepting a move to a massive club because it's everybody's dream and these guys are competitors so they'll back themselves. But it's an unfortunate dynamic and probably not great for their development.
This and all the managers, agents, and other stakeholders attached to the players are incentivized to get the most money - transfer fees, wages, image rights, etc. The business side is wholly aligned with placing guys at the biggest clubs.

And guys who struggle at the big clubs get opportunities a rung or two down. Turner being a back up at Arsenal led to him getting a shot as the #1 at anther EPL club. Dest got a loan to Milan. It's easy to imagine agents' logic - a UCL club might be a step too far for my young player, but they'll bank good wages and endorsements for a while and then take a small step down where they have a chance to develop more...

It's so hard with young men with world class talent. So many voices are pushing them to go, go, go - get to the top as fast as possible.
 

McBride11

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I mean Turkiye looks infinitely more dangerous than the USMNT and Id wager their players are ‘less talented.’

Coaching issue. Either not selecting the right players or not placing a system that optimizes the players selected.
 

McBride11

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Question i am clueless to this

Are Euro players released less to the concacaf tourneys than those released to Eufa international dates? Aka do they have less time together?

Or maybe because they are so spread out the styles get muddled?
 

Pesky Pole

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Question i am clueless to this

Are Euro players released less to the concacaf tourneys than those released to Eufa international dates? Aka do they have less time together?

Or maybe because they are so spread out the styles get muddled?
Generally international breaks are consistent (at least as far as the US goes - don’t get us started about AFCON). The only place where there has been any reluctance to release is at youth age groups. There have been a few issues where a player fighting for a starting spot may not come to camp but that’s usually negotiated between club and country. So not likely the issue.
 

McBride11

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Generally international breaks are consistent (at least as far as the US goes - don’t get us started about AFCON). The only place where there has been any reluctance to release is at youth age groups. There have been a few issues where a player fighting for a starting spot may not come to camp but that’s usually negotiated between club and country. So not likely the issue.
I thought there where sometimes we had MLS heavy teams bc the Euros were off sched?
 

Pesky Pole

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I thought there where sometimes we had MLS heavy teams bc the Euros were off sched?
Those are camps that happen outside the official international windows and are usually more developmental. They typical lead in to a competition where we play a B team (Gold Cup) or a youth team (Olympics). Or they are designed to keep guys out of season for league play in shape for a real friendly.
 

McBride11

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Those are camps that happen outside the official international windows and are usually more developmental. They typical lead in to a competition where we play a B team (Gold Cup) or a youth team (Olympics). Or they are designed to keep guys out of season for league play in shape for a real friendly.
Great. Thanks