US Open at Chambers Bay

TomBrunansky23

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I live in Rochester and I seriously doubt Oak Hill will ever get another Open.  Places like Oakland Hills, Baltusrol, Medinah, Hazeltine, and even Brookline (so far) aren't on the radar either.  My fear is that we will have to come back to this gravel pit (literally) again just so Davis and the USGA can prove their stupid point.  Sickening.
 

Corsi

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TomBrunansky23 said:
I live in Rochester and I seriously doubt Oak Hill will ever get another Open.  Places like Oakland Hills, Baltusrol, Medinah, Hazeltine, and even Brookline (so far) aren't on the radar either.  My fear is that we will have to come back to this gravel pit (literally) again just so Davis and the USGA can prove their stupid point.  Sickening.
 
Brookline targeted for 2022.
 
https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/04/29/the-country-club-open/E0yVvxBAX3Ep9tvyTlCpXO/story.html
 

Lupe Whalewatch

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TomBrunansky23 said:
 
That's why I said so far.  Should have had the Open there in 13 to commemorate 100 years since Ouimet's victory.  
 
I wish the USGA luck in getting Brookline to turn off the sprinklers and brown the shit out of the place.
They were mid-renovation in 2013...it's far better suited for a major now.
 

TomBrunansky23

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Lupe Whalewatch said:
They were mid-renovation in 2013...it's far better suited for a major now.
 
These things are handed out 7, 8,10 years in advance.  They'd have had it ready for 2013.
 
Hopefully whatever renovations they have done aren't similar to the shitshow Pinehurst turned into last year.  At this point I have no faith in the USGA.  Just wait two years until Erin Hills.  Another British Open on acid just like this one.
 
Andy North said it best this week.  You don't play Wimbledon on clay.
 

Comfortably Lomb

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TomBrunansky23 said:
I live in Rochester and I seriously doubt Oak Hill will ever get another Open.  Places like Oakland Hills, Baltusrol, Medinah, Hazeltine, and even Brookline (so far) aren't on the radar either.  My fear is that we will have to come back to this gravel pit (literally) again just so Davis and the USGA can prove their stupid point.  Sickening.
 
Baltusrol will host next year's PGA. Probably out of the major loop a few years after that. Might be a PGA rotation course going forward.
 
USGA is going to Erin Hills in 2017... no idea what we're going to get there. The course opened in 2006.
 

TomBrunansky23

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Comfortably Lomb said:
 
Baltusrol will host next year's PGA. Probably out of the major loop a few years after that. Might be a PGA rotation course going forward.
 
USGA is going to Erin Hills in 2017... no idea what we're going to get there. The course opened in 2006.
 
All those courses I've named (save Brookline) will or have gotten PGAs and/or Ryder Cups in the last 20 years while dropping out of the Open rotation.  You can even add Bethpage to this list.  They are former US Open venues that by the infinite wisdom of our national governing body are no longer worthy when 6 and 7 year old science experiments like Chambers are.
 
Put another way, if they play a PGA at a place like Chambers, fine.  It's clearly fourth among equals and doesn't resonate like an Open does.  Play the Open on the great, historic courses of this country.
 

Lupe Whalewatch

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TomBrunansky23 said:
 
These things are handed out 7, 8,10 years in advance.  They'd have had it ready for 2013.
 
Hopefully whatever renovations they have done aren't similar to the shitshow Pinehurst turned into last year.  At this point I have no faith in the USGA.  Just wait two years until Erin Hills.  Another British Open on acid just like this one.
 
Andy North said it best this week.  You don't play Wimbledon on clay.
Good point. I think somewhere in that time frame they realized the course just doesn't hold up for a major championship golf. They made some subtle changes, adding a decent amount of length to the course. They put a new tee on champ 12 maybe 60-70 yds back, and a new tee on 15 which is probably 40 or so yards back. Just necessary changes to keep pace with today's players.
 

TomBrunansky23

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Lupe Whalewatch said:
Good point. I think somewhere in that time frame they realized the course just doesn't hold up for a major championship golf. They made some subtle changes, adding a decent amount of length to the course. They put a new tee on champ 12 maybe 60-70 yds back, and a new tee on 15 which is probably 40 or so yards back. Just necessary changes to keep pace with today's players.
 
Can't wait to see them go back to Brookline.  The talking heads all fretted about Merion not holding up a couple years ago.  Bullshit.  +1 won it.  As I recall the course was even green and they watered it.  Imagine that.
 

Lupe Whalewatch

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TomBrunansky23 said:
 
Can't wait to see them go back to Brookline.  The talking heads all fretted about Merion not holding up a couple years ago.  Bullshit.  +1 won it.  As I recall the course was even green and they watered it.  Imagine that.
Same here, I love the place. I think the biggest problem there is 18. It used to be a GREAT finishing hole, where players had to hit 5 or 6 iron into that green. Now sadly it's driver wedge for these guys. Unfortunately there isn't any room to lengthen that hole.
 

BigMike

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Comfortably Lomb said:
 
Baltusrol will host next year's PGA. Probably out of the major loop a few years after that. Might be a PGA rotation course going forward.
 
USGA is going to Erin Hills in 2017... no idea what we're going to get there. The course opened in 2006.
 
 
Went to the website, and at least it looks like a golf course. Looking at Erin Hills, it is hard to get a read on how it will play. .  It looks relatively flat (lots of little ups and downs, but doesn't look like huge elevation changes).  Carved out of a wetlands, so water should not be an issue, and their should be quality greens. 
 
Kind of hard to tell what the course will play like in 4 years. No trees. No water.  Lots of target golf
 

ThePrideofShiner

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HriniakPosterChild said:
 
I don't know Thing #1 about golf, but it looks like some of the stories you read were correct.
 
Hey played awfully well. Really excited about him. Hard to believe he was playing high school golf four years ago.
 

radsoxfan

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BigMike said:
 
 
Went to the website, and at least it looks like a golf course. Looking at Erin Hills, it is hard to get a read on how it will play. .  It looks relatively flat (lots of little ups and downs, but doesn't look like huge elevation changes).  Carved out of a wetlands, so water should not be an issue, and their should be quality greens. 
 
Kind of hard to tell what the course will play like in 4 years. No trees. No water.  Lots of target golf
 
 
I'm naive when it comes to the USGA selection process, but is it FIFA-lite money under the table stuff?  
 
Some of the courses they pick are strange, to say the least.  Was this week their Qatar?
 

BigMike

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radsoxfan said:
 
 
I'm naive when it comes to the USGA selection process, but is it FIFA-lite money under the table stuff?  
 
Some of the courses they pick are strange, to say the least.  Was this week their Qatar?
 
I don't think it is that.  Some of it is the other type of politics.  In this case they were desperate to put a course in the pacific Northwest, and they loved the story of this course. Plus there were other political things in play
 
Honestly it looked so out of place for the region.  When I think of the pacific Northwest, and golf.  I would expect a course that is lush and green, and heavily wooded.  Instead we got this joke of a manmade creation that could have been dropped into and quarry in the world, because it had nothing to do with the region
 

ThePrideofShiner

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HriniakPosterChild said:
 
Did you manage to rent out your house to responsible people with bags of money falling out of their pockets?
 
Haha. No. I gave up that ghost about a month ago when I realized what a giant pain in the ass it would be. I decided just to enjoy the moment for what it was. Plus, we got a bunch of repaved roads and new street lights out of it.
 

HriniakPosterChild

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BigMike said:
Honestly it looked so out of place for the region.  When I think of the pacific Northwest, and golf.  I would expect a course that is lush and green, and heavily wooded.  Instead we got this joke of a manmade creation that could have been dropped into and quarry in the world, because it had nothing to do with the region
 
We had a dry June. We collected very little snowpack this winter because it was too warm to snow. Water will be tight this year.
 
If we'd had a normal June, the course (and my lawn) would look a lot greener.
 
 
ThePrideofShiner said:
Haha. No. I gave up that ghost about a month ago when I realized what a giant pain in the ass it would be. I decided just to enjoy the moment for what it was. Plus, we got a bunch of repaved roads and new street lights out of it.
 
Like a municipal election season without the nonstop robo-calls.
 

Comfortably Lomb

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radsoxfan said:
 
 
I'm naive when it comes to the USGA selection process, but is it FIFA-lite money under the table stuff?  
 
Some of the courses they pick are strange, to say the least.  Was this week their Qatar?
 
USGA has been trying to push more public courses in recent years. They don't want the rotation to be all the private stalwarts of the past. That was the big thing about going to Bethpage (which is an awesome course), and ditto for Torey Pines. It looks like the USGA wants to get some of the modern courses in the rotation too but I think they missed the mark with Chambers... it's too tricked out and gimmicky to be taken seriously. Kind of like the PGA should be staying away from Whistling Straights.
 

BigMike

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Comfortably Lomb said:
 
USGA has been trying to push more public courses in recent years. They don't want the rotation to be all the private stalwarts of the past. That was the big thing about going to Bethpage (which is an awesome course), and ditto for Torey Pines. It looks like the USGA wants to get some of the modern courses in the rotation too but I think they missed the mark with Chambers... it's too tricked out and gimmicky to be taken seriously. Kind of like the PGA should be staying away from Whistling Straights.
 
Sitting through that for 4 days, I can't even imagine a public golfer trying to play this course. Maybe they fairways are a little fuller or the greens a little slower, but I think I would quit the sport after playing a round there.   Hit a perfect drive into the middle of fairway, end up in heavy fescue.  Hit a shot at the flag, end up 25 yards away, miss one by 30 yards end up with a 5 foot putt.  How does an a regular golfer play a course where you have to have a topographical map of the green to have any idea where you are supposed to hit an approach shot
 

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BigMike said:
 
Sitting through that for 4 days, I can't even imagine a public golfer trying to play this course. Maybe they fairways are a little fuller or the greens a little slower, but I think I would quit the sport after playing a round there.   Hit a perfect drive into the middle of fairway, end up in heavy fescue.  Hit a shot at the flag, end up 25 yards away, miss one by 30 yards end up with a 5 foot putt.  How does an a regular golfer play a course where you have to have a topographical map of the green to have any idea where you are supposed to hit an approach shot
My understanding from reading reactions of people who've played there before is that it is never close to this baked out and dry.  Getting the fairways slightly more soft and lush and having the greens be softer and a bit more receptive would greatly decrease the severity of the slopes around that place.  The USGA seems to have gone the Shinnecock 04 route and went a bit over the edge with drying the place out. 
 
That said, the course is a tricked up disaster in my opinion.
 

BigMike

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Just flipped on the Golf Channel,  and the guys there are talking about how big a problem it would have been if the Greens were decent, because every US Open record would have been shattered if the putts ran true.
 
I don't really disagree, I really think with better greens 63 would have been shattered yesterday
 

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BigMike said:
Just flipped on the Golf Channel,  and the guys there are talking about how big a problem it would have been if the Greens were decent, because every US Open record would have been shattered if the putts ran true.
 
I don't really disagree, I really think with better greens 63 would have been shattered yesterday
This is sort of my take on it as well. I want to see birdies, I like to see eagle putts. There were just enough of those in my opinion. I would take 5 or 6 guys under par versus +7 winning the tournament, which I think happened recently, maybe at Winged Foot.
 

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I haven't watched golf in a while (I quit some time ago and have never been happier), but I tuned in for this course and thought it was awesome. Great change from the perfectly manicured game of lawn darts they usually play. They ended out with a strong leaderboard, so as random as the course may have seemed at times, skill was rewarded.
 
Edit: oh, and I loved that it was on the West Coast so I could watch at 9:00 after the kids were in bed.
 

Comfortably Lomb

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BigMike said:
Just flipped on the Golf Channel,  and the guys there are talking about how big a problem it would have been if the Greens were decent, because every US Open record would have been shattered if the putts ran true.
 
I don't really disagree, I really think with better greens 63 would have been shattered yesterday
Absolutely, the course is defenseless on its own. It's just long and wide open. There are some difficult fescue filled areas but they were mostly avoidable--kind of for show. Make the greens run true and you will see a lot more putts drop.
 

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Merkle's Boner said:
This is sort of my take on it as well. I want to see birdies, I like to see eagle putts. There were just enough of those in my opinion. I would take 5 or 6 guys under par versus +7 winning the tournament, which I think happened recently, maybe at Winged Foot.
Ogilvy won with a +5 score at Winged Foot in 06, then Cabrera won with +5 at Oakmont in 07. They are going back to Oakmont next year.

I think the course set up ended up being OK. Maybe they could've watered the fairways more so balls weren't landing on the left and running into the right fescue, but that's about it. There were challenging holes, and also birdie/eagle opportunities. It was a good mix. The complaints about the greens were so widespread amongst the players that I think there were legitimate issues there, but I guess there's not much you can do about it. At the end of the day, the #2 player in the world edged out the #3. The best players in the world were competing until the final hole, which is what you'd want at a major championship.
 

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Comfortably Lomb said:
Absolutely, the course is defenseless on its own. It's just long and wide open. There are some difficult fescue filled areas but they were mostly avoidable--kind of for show. Make the greens run true and you will see a lot more putts drop.
I'm on record very early in this thread with how much I hate Chambers (played it twice) but there a couple of things that did not really let Chambers have it's teeth.  First, they took out a LOT of tall fescue since I last played it.  The pros don't play the "unplayable" shot, they get to recover,  so they made it possible to run through or miss the fairways and still have a shot.  Last time I played it, all of that stuff that looked like deeper rough was the same tall grass as up on the hills.  Miss the fairway, lost ball.  More importantly though, the course was built on the coast of the PNW.  The weather looked like the coast of San Diego.  There's almost always a VERY strong wind.  The weather is the biggest defense of the course.  With perfect weather like they had the scores could be very low.  If there's perfect weather at St Andrews you'll see crazy low scores there too and that course has a pretty good track record.
 

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The course was interesting but there is really no excuse for putts not running true.  Those greens made putting like playing the lottery.  That's not a true sporting competition.
 

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TomBrunansky23 said:
 
That's why I said so far.  Should have had the Open there in 13 to commemorate 100 years since Ouimet's victory.  
 
I wish the USGA luck in getting Brookline to turn off the sprinklers and brown the shit out of the place.
The Country Club didn't place a bid to host the 2013 Open. It hosted the U.S. Amateur instead.
http://m.telegram.com/article/20130817/NEWS/308189917
 

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first tournament Ive watched in years. for whatever reason I've been busy and lost interest but despite the issues with the greens, I watched almost all of both the last 2 rounds and I loved the golfers, the course (again depsite the tricks - I love the trains and the fences!!)
 
Norman was good, FOX was pathetic in the DJ post mortem and a few of the commentators were awful - Corey Pavin cannot possibly talk in the soft golf voice in real life!! - but I might be all in on the British Open
 

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jercra said:
If there's perfect weather at St Andrews you'll see crazy low scores there too and that course has a pretty good track record.
There are often low scores at St. Andrews (Oosty shot -16 in 2010), but nobody ever said St. Andrews was a monster for pros, and the R&A never proclaim the Open Championship to be the most difficult test in golf. The U.S. Open is different.
 

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Looking back I did enjoy the tournament as far as the course was concerned and I wasn't expecting that when I first watched a bit on Thursday. I wasn't crazy about the inconsistent greens and the unfairness of missing a shot by a few feet and having your 10 foot putt turn into a 50 yard chip, but we've seen that at other events (Masters, etc). I thought the wide fairways and ability to make some of those holes reachable made it interesting. The finishing holes had enough birdie chances to make it interesting, yet still penalized a bad shot. Made for a good finish. But those greens, wow, just awful for 15-16 of them.
 

Comfortably Lomb

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I just find it odd that the USGA is simultaneously constantly concerned about drivers launching the ball too far and then having 100 yard wide fairways on a 7600 yard par 70 course in their premier event. They wanted players to be pure launching pads on the tees.
 

Leon Trotsky

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DJ getting pretty rough treatment in blowing the tournament I think. Had he made the eagle putt, or even the birdie, Spieth might have gotten the same treatment for absolutely blowing it on 17, and Grace also completely blew it on 16. DJ's just happened to come on the very last swing in the tourney.
 
Anyway, despite all the bitching, that was one riveting sporting event that came down to the wire. I love the story of the course (only the third public course out of 50 that have hosted the US Open I think), the train was great, and the competition was stellar. 
 

TFP

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I'm not sure about DJ. Putting will be at a premium and he can be shaky with the flat stick.
It's rare that you're right about something, so just wanted to give you your fair due here good friend. High five!
 

cshea

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Leon Trotsky said:
DJ getting pretty rough treatment in blowing the tournament I think. Had he made the eagle putt, or even the birdie, Spieth might have gotten the same treatment for absolutely blowing it on 17, and Grace also completely blew it on 16. DJ's just happened to come on the very last swing in the tourney.
 
Anyway, despite all the bitching, that was one riveting sporting event that came down to the wire. I love the story of the course (only the third public course out of 50 that have hosted the US Open I think), the train was great, and the competition was stellar. 
The difference between DJ's and Grace's collapse is that DJ is a star player who has had a history of coming up small in these spots. The 4-times-a-year golf fan had no idea who Branden Grace was yesterday. Dj has the 82 on Sunday at Pebble in the 2010 U.S. Open, losing it on the 72nd hole at Whistling Straits, and the 2011 Open. Holding the 2011 Open against him is probably unfair since he was 2-behind Clarke on 14, but that shot did effectively end that tournament. This makes 4 very public train wrecks for DJ in majors.

I agree that the ending was riveting. That was some finish. The final hour was a roller coaster. One dramatic change in direction after another:

- Oosty charge
- Spieth birdie; Grace double on 16. Locked up for Spieth!
- Spieth double on 17...still OK, but door open
- Oosty birdie on 18 to tie; DJ dart on 17....DJ Alive!
- DJ putt on 17, Spieth's 2 shots in to 18....Spieth maybe slamming door shut!
- DJ drama on 18...DJ gonna win! No, playoff! Oh my God!!
 

cshea

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Also, I was thinking last night...which was more brutal, DJ's 3-putt yesterday, or Adam Scott's 4-hole crash and burn in Royal Lytham?
 

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cshea said:
Dj has the 82 on Sunday at Pebble in the 2010 U.S. Open, losing it on the 72nd hole at Winged Foot...
 
Whistling Straits.  That was another guy's choke job.
 
I can't believe how awesome the drive and 5-iron were on 18.  Two perfectly struck golf shots for 600 yards, followed by two awful putts.
 

Comfortably Lomb

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Freddy Linn said:
 
Whistling Straits.  That was another guy's choke job.
 
I can't believe how awesome the drive and 5-iron were on 18.  Two perfectly struck golf shots for 600 yards, followed by two awful putts.
 
The first putt was not that bad. It was downhill and swung a bit to the right. He basically tapped it to get it moving. I don't think it was particularly makeable for a 12-footer. The comebacker was weak. Looked like he wasn't confident in what it would do.
 

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PaulinMyrBch said:
Looking back I did enjoy the tournament as far as the course was concerned and I wasn't expecting that when I first watched a bit on Thursday. I wasn't crazy about the inconsistent greens and the unfairness of missing a shot by a few feet and having your 10 foot putt turn into a 50 yard chip, but we've seen that at other events (Masters, etc). I thought the wide fairways and ability to make some of those holes reachable made it interesting. The finishing holes had enough birdie chances to make it interesting, yet still penalized a bad shot. Made for a good finish. But those greens, wow, just awful for 15-16 of them.
 
Re: the bolded point above, I hear this kind of comment on television here in the UK a lot, but there's rarely anything unfair about it. Take the hole location on #1 yesterday: this is classic risk-and-reward golf. JB Holmes tried to attack the pin with his wedge shot; he was only a few feet short of perfect, and he wound up hitting two more shots of nearly the same length on the hole, but that's his own bloody fault for not making sure he left himself some room for error (or by missing his margin of error by so much). If you want to play it safe, play it safe and give yourself a 30-footer for birdie, but don't complain if you get overly aggressive and pay the price.
 
I did see some bad bounces yesterday - Day's tee shot which landed in the middle of the fairway and kicked right into the rough being the worst example - as well as some lucky bounces, but at this level of golf, these guys ought to be able to know where to miss and plan accordingly. Spieth had a thoroughly unspectacular final round - his four birdies came on two driveable par 4s and two reachable par 5s, and I think he made only one putt of more than 5 feet all day - but only twice did he make bogey or worse, and on both of those holes (#1 and #17) he missed very short putts. Par is supposed to be your friend at the US Open, and Spieth won because he made fewer mistakes than everyone else: he generally missed in good spots and didn't give the course many chances to make him unlucky, and on the few occasions he did miss he had enough skill to get out of jail.
 

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Comfortably Lomb said:
 
The first putt was not that bad. It was downhill and swung a bit to the right. He basically tapped it to get it moving. I don't think it was particularly makeable for a 12-footer. The comebacker was weak. Looked like he wasn't confident in what it would do.
It wasn't particularly makeable, but to avoid the four footer and to leave the next putt in a better spot he needed to hit it way softer than he did.
 

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Freddy Linn said:
It wasn't particularly makeable, but to avoid the four footer and to leave the next putt in a better spot he needed to hit it way softer than he did.
Absolutely.

You guarantee yourself at least the playoff. He was trying to make it and blew it. The most stunning thing was that he just watched Day blow it 4 feet by. He fucked up trying to go for the win.

If he had made that putt, he would have been infamous. It was a risk worth taking for him, just didn't work out.
 

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FL4WL3SS said:
Tiger has had an interesting history in Phoenix. 
 
- He had the infamous hole-in-one on 17 in 1997
- He had the crowd move a boulder as a 'loose-impediment' to bend the rules
- A heckler was tackled after following him around the course, found later to have a gun
 
Hasn't played since 2001. I'll enjoy watching his return.
 
 
FL4WL3SS said:
Absolutely.

You guarantee yourself at least the playoff. He was trying to make it and blew it. The most stunning thing was that he just watched Day blow it 4 feet by. He fucked up trying to go for the win.

If he had made that putt, he would have been infamous. It was a risk worth taking for him, just didn't work out.