I had heard that the radar devices used to measure pitch speed have changed over the years, but had idea how much or when they changed. I thought this question and answer on billjames.com was really interesting:
In the documentary "Fastball," the filmmakers estimated that Nolan Ryan’s fastest pitch ever as recorded by 1970s technology, registered 101 in the 1970s, but would have registered 110 by today’s methods. The difference? 1970s pitch velocity was measured as it crossed the plate. Pitches today are clocked very close to their release point.
Asked by: evanecurb
Bill James Answered: 9/19/2021
"I have not seen the documentary you refer to... but I don't know that I would go so far as to assert that Ryan threw 110; that seems to me to be pushing the evidence to Ryan's advantage. If he threw 101 on the radar guns available at that time, that was probably one pitch, you know? Next pitch might have been 98.
This is my understanding of it. ..and those who made the documentary you refer to probably had a tighter grip on some of this than I do, and I encourage you to watch it if you are interested in the subject.
But TV networks got radar guns about 1977 or 1978, and we started to see radar readings then. Ryan (and Goose Gossage) would throw 97 and 98, sometimes 99, on those guns. There was a key moment in the post-season, 1980 or 1981, when one of the networks was using a NEWER model of radar gun. . . .I kind of half-remember the brand names, so i won't get into that. . . but one of the networks had been provided a new radar gun which was getting faster readings, 2 or 3 MPH faster. Jim Palmer said something about not believing the gun, which triggered backlash from the company which had provided the new guns, and they explained that it was the OLD readings that were wrong; THEIR readings werre actually the first ones that were right, because they were picking up the ball sooner, and, since it decelerates as it travels, they got higher readings. I believe that they threatened to sue, the network had to apologize for Palmer's comment, and the newer radar guns, which got faster readings, took over the market, by 1983.
BUT THIS STORY THEN REPEATED ITSELF TWO MORE TIMES. When I joined the Red Sox in late 2002 and started sitting in the scout seats, there were two styles of guns that the scouts used, so that you would look to your right and the scout there would have a reading of 94, and then you would look to your left and the scout would have a reading of 91. So you would look to see whether it was a JUGS gun or the other one, Pro-something.
Well, the scouts unified around the faster guns within a year or so. But ten years later, this happened AGAIN; the guns got faster again. They got faster readings because they were picking the ball up sooner, closer to the pitcher's hand.
So Ryan's 97-98, sometimes 99 in 1977 and 1978. . .what is that now? It's AT LEAST 104, maybe 106, not sure I'm going to buy 110.
But Ryan by 1978 was past 30, and he had thrown more than 2,000 major league innings, and his biggest strikeout seasons were behind him. So is it possible he was a couple of MPH faster in 1972? Sure.
As I say, I have not seen the documentary, but I have not seen the evidence that would justify pinning Ryan's pitch at 110. But suggesting that today's pitchers throw harder than anybody did in the 1970s.. . . .I don't see the evidence for THAT, either. "
Note: the documentary discussed is on Amazon Prime and came out 5 years ago:
View: https://www.amazon.com/Fastball-Kevin-Costner/dp/B01D99U9LI
I haven't seen this film, so I don't know exactly what it says or how accurate it is.
The way pitch velocity is measured has clearly changed a lot over the past few decades. And who knows, it will probably change again. Presumably each time the radar machines change, the measurement becomes more accurate, but it then becomes impossible to compare against previous radar readings without being adjusted somehow. But what adjustment can be made?
Did Nolan Ryan really throw faster than anyone else ever?
How fast would the fastballs of Pedro, Clemens, etc. be with the current radar equipment?
How does today's 97 mph fastball compare with a 97 mph fastball from 1999?
In the documentary "Fastball," the filmmakers estimated that Nolan Ryan’s fastest pitch ever as recorded by 1970s technology, registered 101 in the 1970s, but would have registered 110 by today’s methods. The difference? 1970s pitch velocity was measured as it crossed the plate. Pitches today are clocked very close to their release point.
Asked by: evanecurb
Bill James Answered: 9/19/2021
"I have not seen the documentary you refer to... but I don't know that I would go so far as to assert that Ryan threw 110; that seems to me to be pushing the evidence to Ryan's advantage. If he threw 101 on the radar guns available at that time, that was probably one pitch, you know? Next pitch might have been 98.
This is my understanding of it. ..and those who made the documentary you refer to probably had a tighter grip on some of this than I do, and I encourage you to watch it if you are interested in the subject.
But TV networks got radar guns about 1977 or 1978, and we started to see radar readings then. Ryan (and Goose Gossage) would throw 97 and 98, sometimes 99, on those guns. There was a key moment in the post-season, 1980 or 1981, when one of the networks was using a NEWER model of radar gun. . . .I kind of half-remember the brand names, so i won't get into that. . . but one of the networks had been provided a new radar gun which was getting faster readings, 2 or 3 MPH faster. Jim Palmer said something about not believing the gun, which triggered backlash from the company which had provided the new guns, and they explained that it was the OLD readings that were wrong; THEIR readings werre actually the first ones that were right, because they were picking up the ball sooner, and, since it decelerates as it travels, they got higher readings. I believe that they threatened to sue, the network had to apologize for Palmer's comment, and the newer radar guns, which got faster readings, took over the market, by 1983.
BUT THIS STORY THEN REPEATED ITSELF TWO MORE TIMES. When I joined the Red Sox in late 2002 and started sitting in the scout seats, there were two styles of guns that the scouts used, so that you would look to your right and the scout there would have a reading of 94, and then you would look to your left and the scout would have a reading of 91. So you would look to see whether it was a JUGS gun or the other one, Pro-something.
Well, the scouts unified around the faster guns within a year or so. But ten years later, this happened AGAIN; the guns got faster again. They got faster readings because they were picking the ball up sooner, closer to the pitcher's hand.
So Ryan's 97-98, sometimes 99 in 1977 and 1978. . .what is that now? It's AT LEAST 104, maybe 106, not sure I'm going to buy 110.
But Ryan by 1978 was past 30, and he had thrown more than 2,000 major league innings, and his biggest strikeout seasons were behind him. So is it possible he was a couple of MPH faster in 1972? Sure.
As I say, I have not seen the documentary, but I have not seen the evidence that would justify pinning Ryan's pitch at 110. But suggesting that today's pitchers throw harder than anybody did in the 1970s.. . . .I don't see the evidence for THAT, either. "
Note: the documentary discussed is on Amazon Prime and came out 5 years ago:
View: https://www.amazon.com/Fastball-Kevin-Costner/dp/B01D99U9LI
I haven't seen this film, so I don't know exactly what it says or how accurate it is.
The way pitch velocity is measured has clearly changed a lot over the past few decades. And who knows, it will probably change again. Presumably each time the radar machines change, the measurement becomes more accurate, but it then becomes impossible to compare against previous radar readings without being adjusted somehow. But what adjustment can be made?
Did Nolan Ryan really throw faster than anyone else ever?
How fast would the fastballs of Pedro, Clemens, etc. be with the current radar equipment?
How does today's 97 mph fastball compare with a 97 mph fastball from 1999?
Last edited:
