UFC/MMA in 2016

Gunfighter 09

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So I don't watch UFC much, just the interesting PPV. But every time I do I'm surprised how terrible most of the fighters are in a stand-up striking situation.
I know most of these fighters are well rounded, but their "boxing" for lack of a better word skills are mostly terrible. Lot of really wild long swings, leave their chin wide open when coming in. Don't slip punches well, etc.
I wonder if the reason some of the fighters like Holm and McGregor who started as boxers are having so much success is that it is easier in a short period to teach competence in avoiding submissions/takedowns than it is to teach the fundamentals of boxing. I went back and watched McGregor fights before last night, and one thing I noticed is he has that boxer's style of slipping strikes while looking to counter quick, and so many of his opponents wildly overcommit to their strikes as if they expect him to cover up and block rather than slip and counter.
You're my friend. We can chill.
The updated list of champs:

Male champs:
Mighty Mouse - Wrestler and Track athlete who picked up Mui Thai after high school
Dillashaw - standout collegiate wrestler,
Aldo - Capoeira in the streets as a kid, his first professional training was in Jiu Jitsu McGregor - MMA background, though a much better boxer than grappler
Dos Anjos - Jiu Jitsu from the age of 9
Lawler - Karate as a kid, state tourney wrestling finalist in Iowa, grabbed up my Miletich at the age of 16
Weidman - All American Wrestler in both Greco and Freestyle Rockhold- Wrestling / Judo / BJJ as a kid / young adult
Cormier- Olympic Wrestler, world grand prix champion wrestler
Werdum - Jiu Jitsu world champion, probably the best JJ game of anyone in MMA today

Women's champs:
- JJ - world champion kick boxer
-Holm - world champion boxer
In some ways, McGregor is the bizarro Rousey. He has a phenomenal skill complete with an absolutely lethal finishing touch with that left hand, but only he seems to think the underutilized part of his game is adequate. I wonder if Frankie Edgar is his Holm.
 

Marciano490

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McGregor is a dedicated trainer. I love watching his clips. The things he does for timing balance and range are amazing.
 

Phragle

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So I don't watch UFC much, just the interesting PPV. But every time I do I'm surprised how terrible most of the fighters are in a stand-up striking situation.
I know most of these fighters are well rounded, but their "boxing" for lack of a better word skills are mostly terrible. Lot of really wild long swings, leave their chin wide open when coming in. Don't slip punches well, etc.
I wonder if the reason some of the fighters like Holm and McGregor who started as boxers are having so much success is that it is easier in a short period to teach competence in avoiding submissions/takedowns than it is to teach the fundamentals of boxing. I went back and watched McGregor fights before last night, and one thing I noticed is he has that boxer's style of slipping strikes while looking to counter quick, and so many of his opponents wildly overcommit to their strikes as if they expect him to cover up and block rather than slip and counter.
Yeah totally, and I see much better wrestling at the olympics too.

Dave Meltzer is wondering if Aldo will up to 155. Like McGregor, the 145 cut for this fight was a tough one for him.
The IV ban is a variable, but so is the PED crackdown. I'm not sure how it will affect everyone, but it's something to think about, especially with Aldo. Actually I'm not sure any guy from from his gym has won since. Barao has looked spectacularly awful.

And that was the smallest, weakest Weidman I've ever seen. I think USADA alone might be a good reason to put a little dough on Cowboy vs RDA. The RDA we've seen recently is not something that looks natural to me.

It will be interesting to see what happens going forward.

There is no fucking way that Werdum has a better JJ game than Demian Maia.
Maia and his JJ are unreal right now.

In some ways, McGregor is the bizarro Rousey. He has a phenomenal skill complete with an absolutely lethal finishing touch with that left hand, but only he seems to think the underutilized part of his game is adequate. I wonder if Frankie Edgar is his Holm.
That's an interesting take but I'm not sure we know McGregor's ground game is as bad as Ronda's striking. It was when he lost to Duffy but that was forever ago. Maybe I should rewatch the Mendes fight.

McGregor is a dedicated trainer. I love watching his clips. The things he does for timing balance and range are amazing.
Yeah he's a special competitor. It's really easy to be a fan of him.
 
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southshoresoxfan

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Id love to see Maia get a title shot. They keep throwing these young guys to him that he toys with. Hes not super exciting but he is ridiculous on the ground.

Heard Rockhold wants Vitor. I dont need to see that fight. I think Romero is interesting but he will gas after 1 or 2 rounds.

Who in Rockholds class can even give that guy a match right now (outside of Weidman). Seems like a down division right now.
 

beezer

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Id love to see Maia get a title shot. They keep throwing these young guys to him that he toys with. Hes not super exciting but he is ridiculous on the ground.

Heard Rockhold wants Vitor. I dont need to see that fight. I think Romero is interesting but he will gas after 1 or 2 rounds.

Who in Rockholds class can even give that guy a match right now (outside of Weidman). Seems like a down division right now.
Unfortunately I'd argue that Maia needs something special to get another title shot. After the performance he put up against Silva and Dana calling it a disgrace, I don't think we'll see him fight for the title without a few flashy finishes.

I'd say that the rematch with Jacare will be Rockhold's biggest test. Their fight in Strikeforce was a close fight, but one that Rockhold clearly won. I think the rematch would be his toughest test as I agree with you that Romero would gas (especially over a 5 round title fight)
 

rembrat

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I asked this during the fight but I'll ask it here: Is it hard to learn how to punch "hard?"

This crossed my mind, of course, when Maia was cuddling up behind and on top of Gunner, raining down love taps with his oh so soft and pillowy hands. He should have finished that fight about 35 different times and all he managed to do was scratch up that white boy.
 

southshoresoxfan

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I asked this during the fight but I'll ask it here: Is it hard to learn how to punch "hard?"

This crossed my mind, of course, when Maia was cuddling up behind and on top of Gunner, raining down love taps with his oh so soft and pillowy hands. He should have finished that fight about 35 different times and all he managed to do was scratch up that white boy.
He has said before he just wants to use his punches to set up his JJ. Wants his opponent to be able to train the next day and not inflict too much damage. Rogan was talking about this w Schaub on his latest pod.
 

luckiestman

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I asked this during the fight but I'll ask it here: Is it hard to learn how to punch "hard?"

This crossed my mind, of course, when Maia was cuddling up behind and on top of Gunner, raining down love taps with his oh so soft and pillowy hands. He should have finished that fight about 35 different times and all he managed to do was scratch up that white boy.

There are various things that can be happening. It's actually surprisingly hard to punch someone on the ground and maintain position if the guy defending knows how to move. Tito Ortiz made it an art form from inside the closed guard back in the day. Also, the no head butts and no hitting the back of the head no knees to the head changed a lot.

The whole traditional bjj strategy used to be mount, make the guy turns his back to you, elbow the back of his head until he opens up enough to sink the RNC. Bjj guys didn't like to punch too hard because the fights were bare knuckle and hand injuries happen a lot. The hand wraps have changed this game so much. Gloves also make defending the RNC way easier but this is getting off the question you asked.
 

Marciano490

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I always analogized it to throwing a baseball. Yeah, weights and plyos and that sort of thing can make you stronger and hit a little harder, and adding weight will get some leverage behind it, but some dudes are gonna throw 90 out the crib and some dudes are gonna have knockout power from birth, and there really isn't a lot you can do about that except around the margins.

I think, though, that people underestimate how much it hurts or is annoying to get hit by any kind of punch. You can test it for yourself - give yourself a little closed-fist tap on the nose or forehead. Don't feel good. I always tried, and trained people, to just get there hands moving. Any kind of landed punch is going to hurt. More importantly it's going to cause a reaction in your opponent. Knockouts will come when they're ready to come, but you can't really go in there trying to force one any more than you can go to bat trying to hit a homer.
 

rembrat

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I mean Maia obviously connects with his strikes from the mount position but they don't really have anything behind them. I find it hard to believe he's choosing to inflict less damage out of some gentlemen's agreement, not breaking his hand, or because he's looking to set up his JJ.

If ever there's a dude that could benefit from some TKO finishes it would be Maia. He burst on to the scene submitting dudes left and right but ever since then he's turned into a decision guy.

edit: Just saw Marciano's reply. Got it. Makes sense. And yea getting punched, even lightly, for 3 rounds would be annoying.
 

luckiestman

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I mean Maia obviously connects with his strikes from the mount position but they don't really have anything behind them. I find it hard to believe he's choosing to inflict less damage out of some gentlemen's agreement, not breaking his hand, or because he's looking to set up his JJ.

If ever there's a dude that could benefit from some TKO finishes it would be Maia. He burst on to the scene submitting dudes left and right but ever since then he's turned into a decision guy.

edit: Just saw Marciano's reply. Got it. Makes sense. And yea getting punched, even lightly, for 3 rounds would be annoying.

You have to shift your weight to hit hard on the ground. To the eye, this might not make sense but you have to unbalance yourself a bit to hit hard. Go mount some pillows and see how hard you can hit them without unbalancing yourself. Holding mount and hitting someone is harder than it looks. Randy Couture used to put himself in top half guard to maintain top position
 

Marciano490

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Yes and no. That scene in Kill Bill with Pei Mei where Uma is doing the two inch punch is not totally fictive. Some people can generate or learn to generate an incredible amount of force in a short space without any body torque.

There are also other techniques that don't involve any outward movement. I used to spar with a kickboxing champion who would hold his hands way in front of his face, but could still generate a ton of power despite only moving his fists a couple inches when throwing. He showed me this technique where he'd squeeze his opposite ab/oblique to generate force when punching. It's really hard to do with timing and breathing, but it keeps you perfectly positioned and allows you to get a ton of extra mustard on punches without any extraneous movement.
 

mikeford

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Id love to see Maia get a title shot. They keep throwing these young guys to him that he toys with. Hes not super exciting but he is ridiculous on the ground.

Heard Rockhold wants Vitor. I dont need to see that fight. I think Romero is interesting but he will gas after 1 or 2 rounds.

Who in Rockholds class can even give that guy a match right now (outside of Weidman). Seems like a down division right now.
Romero should get it. The guy just won the #1 contender fight and he's 38, probably 39 by his next fight. His career is almost over, throw him a bone.
 

southshoresoxfan

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Romero should get it. The guy just won the #1 contender fight and he's 38, probably 39 by his next fight. His career is almost over, throw him a bone.
Oh i agree. Id go Jacarae vs Weidman and Romera vs Rockhold. Just saying i dont think Rockhold has an issue with him.

Wouldnt mind seeing a Hendricks/Maia or McDonald/Maia fight for a crack at Lawler/Condit in that division either.

What i really want is DC / Jones. Prob UFC 200 right?
 

theapportioner

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It's nuts, after an era where we saw Silva, GSP, Jon Jones, and Aldo carry their belts for years, now there are five UFC champions with 0 title defenses. After Demetrius Johnson with 7, the next two are Dillashaw and Jedrzejczyk, both with 2 defenses.
 

Infield Infidel

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So there are some solid fights tomorrow. Interested to see if JDS bounces back from some tough wins, and if Reem can figure out a way to not get ko'd. He's got so many weapons but for the glass jaw.
 

southshoresoxfan

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So there are some solid fights tomorrow. Interested to see if JDS bounces back from some tough wins, and if Reem can figure out a way to not get ko'd. He's got so many weapons but for the glass jaw.
Im almoooost as pumped for Cowboy Cerrone and Dos Anjos as I was anything on UFC194. What a monster free fight.

Cerrone called him out multiple times re: drug testing and I have to agree. Cerrone is taking the title tomorrow.
 

Snowplow

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I think RDA looked smaller but not a Vitor Belfort kind of transition.I also thought Weidman looked smaller last week. Vitor though....he went from greek God to Dad bod.
 

theapportioner

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Ronda Rousey dressed as a Stormtrooper is awesome, considering their lousy abilities in the stand-up game.
 

Gunfighter 09

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I really hope Marciano is watching this Nate Diaz fight. I imagine it would give him much happiness.
 

Zomp

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It's realistic in that they could make the weight work but I'd think Mcgregor would have to keep winning and Diaz would have to beat a couple of really good opponents.

I want Mcgregor to fight Edgar first, then Dos Anos if he wins. Maybe an Aldo rematch as well.

That card was great for a freebie last night. Really impressed with Diaz and Dos Anos. Cerrone just looked thrown off by his speed.

I won't be buying the Lawler card but his fight should be great.
 

Infield Infidel

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Gunfighter 09

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That is such fucking garbage. He didn't beat Hendricks either time, he was losing to McDonald and lost this fight badly. What the fuck does Lawler have on Dana and the Fertittas? He was outstruck almost 4 to 1 and was hurt multiple times. What nonsense.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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"That's why you don't leave it to the judges" says Condit.

Lawler escapes once again. Probably the "worst" UFC champ right now among all the divisions.