UFC 2020

kelpapa

Costanza's Hero
SoSH Member
Feb 15, 2010
4,637
Izzy beat everybody in the top 6 in that division outside of Pereira. It's the only fight that makes sense.
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
62,312
It’s Fury-Wilder at this point. Plus, I think Pereira might be more susceptible to other fighters. He’s got major holes.
 

luckiestman

Son of the Harpy
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
32,617
They must have great drugs at Glover’s gym. @luckiestman any answer to my wrist control question above?
It’s not as slick as you would think, glove to glove causes some friction. You can still pull your hand away but I think the problem is you don’t want to do a big movement to get it away.
 

luckiestman

Son of the Harpy
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
32,617
It’s Fury-Wilder at this point. Plus, I think Pereira might be more susceptible to other fighters. He’s got major holes.
That power covers a lot of holes but he can’t grapple. That’s what I meant earlier. He seems to be kryptonite for Izzy but guys that Izzy clowns could give him problems.

I can’t believe he makes 185 though. He looked huge in there. That dude getting on a scale and being 10 pound a lighter than me blows my mind. This would be like me making 135. That’s an impressive cut. UFC not supposed to allow IVs so I have to think that is bullshit and they got around it or there is a better system now
 

EvilEmpire

paying for his sins
Moderator
SoSH Member
Apr 9, 2007
17,178
Washington
Good fight. Pereira could lose to guys Izzy would never lose too. Styles make fights.
Yup. Might as well make as much money as possible from Pereira before he gets exposed. Kind of doubt Dana wants to see a guy like Derek Brunson become champ. Rematch with Izzy is smart business. Pereira's matchmaking up to this point has been pretty careful. I'm sure it still will be for a while longer.
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
62,312
Wonder if any fighter ever lost the first 3 then won the fifth. LaMotta versus Sugar Ray?
 

luckiestman

Son of the Harpy
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
32,617
Wonder if any fighter ever lost the first 3 then won the fifth. LaMotta versus Sugar Ray?
in my eyes yes but … I had Manny in the first fight vs JMM but it was scored a draw, then Manny beat him twice then JMM got on some good shit and obliterated Manny.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,096
Wonderboy / Holland right now is one of the more entertaining fights I've seen in a while.
Holland with the fight IQ of a pretzel. He willingly gives up top control not once but twice to stand up and play to Thompson’s strength before breaking his hand. One fighter was there to win the other was there to entertain.
 

EvilEmpire

paying for his sins
Moderator
SoSH Member
Apr 9, 2007
17,178
Washington
Holland is definitely more interested in entertaining than winning. And he is entertaining. I'm not so sure it's a bad career choice for him, really. He doesn't have a championship level ceiling and being entertaining is a good way to get fans and for the UFC to keep you around. Bonuses are nice too.

He's making a conscious choice. I'm not convinced it is a bad one. Non-elite guys who can hang well enough with the elite and be somewhat competitive and who are fun to watch while doing it are awesome. I think Masvidal is one of those guys in a different way. The Diaz brothers are probably at the top of that pyramid. Masvidal will never be a Diaz bro, and Holland will never get to where Masvidal is at, but a niche at a tier below isn't a bad goal and will make him some money. At least that is the way I see it.
 

bibajesus

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
965
Holland is definitely more interested in entertaining than winning. And he is entertaining. I'm not so sure it's a bad career choice for him, really. He doesn't have a championship level ceiling and being entertaining is a good way to get fans and for the UFC to keep you around. Bonuses are nice too.

He's making a conscious choice. I'm not convinced it is a bad one. Non-elite guys who can hang well enough with the elite and be somewhat competitive and who are fun to watch while doing it are awesome. I think Masvidal is one of those guys in a different way. The Diaz brothers are probably at the top of that pyramid. Masvidal will never be a Diaz bro, and Holland will never get to where Masvidal is at, but a niche at a tier below isn't a bad goal and will make him some money. At least that is the way I see it.
I agree with this. Another example is Clay Guida, who was on the same card. If Clay wasn't entertaining he would have been cut a long time ago.
 

EvilEmpire

paying for his sins
Moderator
SoSH Member
Apr 9, 2007
17,178
Washington
Good call on Guida. Lando Vannata might be another one. I still remember that crazy fight he had with Tony Ferguson.

Of course if the Diaz bros are at the top of the pyramid and Holland somewhere in the middle, those guys are in the basement.
 

EvilEmpire

paying for his sins
Moderator
SoSH Member
Apr 9, 2007
17,178
Washington
Actually, since he was on the card last night, Elkins is one of those guys too. Not a high tier, but not in the basement either.
 

luckiestman

Son of the Harpy
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
32,617
Good call on Guida. Lando Vannata might be another one. I still remember that crazy fight he had with Tony Ferguson.

Of course if the Diaz bros are at the top of the pyramid and Holland somewhere in the middle, those guys are in the basement.
Nick/Nate good enough to hold a belt if they got a favorable matchup. Holland as a Guida guy is a good call or post peak Diego Sanchez who was a legit contender early in his career.
 

EvilEmpire

paying for his sins
Moderator
SoSH Member
Apr 9, 2007
17,178
Washington
Apparently Holland broke his hand pretty badly in the first round. Obviously that makes it really hard for him to strike with his right hand, but it would have made it hard for him to grapple too. Shit luck all around.

The severity of Holland’s hand break was significant, his management told ESPN. holland broke the third, fourth and fifth metacarpals. He will require surgery, but no date has been finalized for him to go under the knife.
https://mmajunkie.usatoday.com/2022/12/ufc-on-espn-42-kevin-holland-manager-suffered-broken-hand-first-round-loss
 

djbayko

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
25,894
Los Angeles, CA

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
62,312
Both these guys seem like bears to fight. Not hugely gifted but just grueling and inexorable.
 

EvilEmpire

paying for his sins
Moderator
SoSH Member
Apr 9, 2007
17,178
Washington
Some of these decisions are so, so bad. The UFC needs to go to open scoring. Can't control the judges, but damn, at least let the fighters know they're getting screwed during the fight so they have time to do something about it.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,096
Some of these decisions are so, so bad. The UFC needs to go to open scoring. Can't control the judges, but damn, at least let the fighters know they're getting screwed during the fight so they have time to do something about it.
I was expecting Gordon to get screwed on a decision before the fight. I wagered about 25% of what I would have liked bc I knew he’d have to win this fight convincingly to get the decision. Hysterical that all 3 judges gave Paddy R1 just as it was all 3 had Jan in his R1. What a night……two fights went to the cards, both were easy to score, and the commissions judges screw them both up. Awful black eye for the sport.
 

EvilEmpire

paying for his sins
Moderator
SoSH Member
Apr 9, 2007
17,178
Washington
Honestly, that nonsense made me think of this video posted by ElUno20 a while aback in the boxing thread, which I'm posting again because it is freaking awesome and is Teddy Atlas at his best.

"Make the other guy catch up."

Edit: And yeah it could easily be another application of Hanlon's Razor: "never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity", but it is amazing how often this sort of thing happens in favor of the more marketable fighter.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,096
Honestly, that nonsense made me think of this video posted by ElUno20 a while aback in the boxing thread, which I'm posting again because it is freaking awesome and is Teddy Atlas at his best.



"Make the other guy catch up."

Edit: And yeah it could easily be another application of Hanlon's Razor: "never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity", but it is amazing how often this sort of thing happens in favor of the more marketable fighter.
I re-watched both fights. Such a different perspective when watching tape. I can now see how R3 could have went to Paddy, even though I wouldn’t have, bc Gordon didn’t do any significant damage but all 3 gave R1 to him when I had Gordon with his late TD solidifying it clearly. Even R2 could have a case for being Gordon’s. Maybe not a “fix” but he won that fight.

The Ankalaev fight I can actually see him losing R1 due to the damage Jan inflicted. I had R5 a clear 10-8 so can not really disagree with a Draw being scored there.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
53,837
I only caught the last 2 fights, and maybe I don't know enough about scoring, but I that Paddy lost the first round easy, but even Gordon's corner though Paddy may have won that round.

Same in the split draw--after Blachowicz stopped working on Ankalaev's legs in round 3, he did nothing else. Just weird decisions.
 

djbayko

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
25,894
Los Angeles, CA
I only caught the last 2 fights, and maybe I don't know enough about scoring, but I that Paddy lost the first round easy, but even Gordon's corner though Paddy may have won that round.

Same in the split draw--after Blachowicz stopped working on Ankalaev's legs in round 3, he did nothing else. Just weird decisions.
Are you basing this on what they told Gordon during corner between round 1 and 2? Because they might be erring on the side of extreme caution there with information there so that the fighter doesn't let up.
 

luckiestman

Son of the Harpy
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
32,617
Uncle eye ev fight is the exact type of fight fans get mad about but could be scored various ways. No one likes to see a guy that was brutalized in the last rd get a JD. This is why PRIDE scoring (Japanese Organization) was better. They judged the totality of the fight, not rounds.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,096
Are you basing this on what they told Gordon during corner between round 1 and 2? Because they might be erring on the side of extreme caution there with information there so that the fighter doesn't let up.
This is what I was thinking during the fight when we heard the corner say this. They also probably knew Gordon would need to win rounds convincingly and wouldn’t be getting any benefit of the doubt as well.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
53,837
Are you basing this on what they told Gordon during corner between round 1 and 2? Because they might be erring on the side of extreme caution there with information there so that the fighter doesn't let up.
Mostly yes, but it just seemed so far from what I just watched that I thought I missed something. That said, that could be the type of motivation that Gordon responds to and his team would know that.
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
62,312
His interview and quotes are even worse. Dude actually says “we apologized to each other.” Glad your wife apologized you 250 pound coke/steroid monster.
 

djbayko

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
25,894
Los Angeles, CA

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
22,667
Spectacularly bad timing for TBS, who had a show literally called "Dana White's Power Slap" set to debut next week.
 

luckiestman

Son of the Harpy
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
32,617
That was some of the highest level BJJ you will see in MMA. Magny was doing good shit and Durinho was always a step or two ahead. Probably looked like nothing but it was very impressive.