Tristan Thompson to Boston: 2 years, $19M, player option to re-up with Khloé Kardashian

BigSoxFan

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He is excited about it? Did he share with you? I wasn't talking about Ainge. I am referring to all the folks who keep clamoring for more bigs. You just don't need that many expensive players in those roles. Few are worth what they get paid in a hoops sense.

Its fine. It soaks up minutes and gives Stevens another option for a big.
Clearly, the guy running the Boston Celtics disagrees. He had one major arrow left in the quiver and he chose to use it on Tristan. There were other options available. He’s here to play a very situational role. Doesn’t really bother me if he’s not great value.
 

TripleOT

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Tommy would have loved this signing— a lunch pail big who hits the offensive boards.

Toughness is an underrated commodity in today’s NBA. Having a guy like TT who will bang every second he’s on the court, content to get his shots off second effort, will fit in well with this squad
 

PedroKsBambino

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Imagine Ibaka might get above the MLE from the Raptors—were there a choice I’d go with Ibaka, but there may well not have been
 

The Social Chair

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Celtics most likely get to the finals if they had Thompson in the bubble.

They can roll Theis or TT out there at the end of games depending on the matchup.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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By the end of the season, Theis wasn’t really a floor spacer anyway. Practically Rondoesque in his ability to turn down a wide open three. Set good screens, move the ball, rebound. Scoring is a bonus. They have plenty of spacing in most lineups they will put out.
 

benhogan

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Meh, a big body to handle the classic BIGs that still roam the hardwood

I'll be the first to say it, f@ck it give VPs roster spot to Tacko. I want to be enetertained
 

Reardons Beard

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Watching tape of Thompson. I think he'll mesh well with the Jays and the way this team runs. Obviously way quicker than Kanter but will bang down low with toughness this team has lacked for a couple years outside of Smart. Not thrilled with the offseason but this was a piece that was sorely needed.
 

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By the end of the season, Theis wasn’t really a floor spacer anyway. Practically Rondoesque in his ability to turn down a wide open three. Set good screens, move the ball, rebound. Scoring is a bonus. They have plenty of spacing in most lineups they will put out.
Yeah, he was 4-26 from 3 in the playoffs, including 0-4 against Miami and 1-7 against Toronto.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Clearly, the guy running the Boston Celtics disagrees. He had one major arrow left in the quiver and he chose to use it on Tristan. There were other options available. He’s here to play a very situational role. Doesn’t really bother me if he’s not great value.
Seems to me like this is Ainge's plan C or D after the Hayward situation. You like this signing and its fine. Its not worth a debate here. He is kind of a neutral value player in Boston because as you point out, they don't ask their players to do things they cannot. Also, you took a shot at me for the floor spacer comment when (a) you have to know I don't think that and (b) I was responding to another poster. What else is going on here?

I wouldn't get to attached to your Cs Thompson jersey though. Part of plan C or D is to move his contract if the opportunity presents itself.
 

BigSoxFan

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Seems to me like this is Ainge's plan C or D after the Hayward situation. You like this signing and its fine. Its not worth a debate here. He is kind of a neutral value player in Boston because as you point out, they don't ask their players to do things they cannot. Also, you took a shot at me for the floor spacer comment when (a) you have to know I don't think that and (b) I was responding to another poster. What else is going on here?

I wouldn't get to attached to your Cs Thompson jersey though. Part of plan C or D is to move his contract if the opportunity presents itself.
What is going here is your obnoxious line that basically states that anyone who is excited about this move doesn’t understand how the game is played.

I didn’t take a shot at you. I am pushing back on you for that bullshit statement.

You are better than that.
 

nighthob

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Seems like an overpay and not particularly useful
I mean it’s like having a more mobile Kanter. Not sure that that’s a bad thing. You do need someone to inflict real physical pain on the Joel Embiids of the NBA.
 

BaseballJones

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Thompson is an absolutely fantastic rebounder. So was Kanter though. Career per 36 numbers:

Kanter: 19.2 points, 12.6 rebounds
Thompson: 12.1 points, 11.2 rebounds

Career O and D rating

Kanter: O 114, D 108
Thompson: O 115, D 109

This past season, per 36 numbers:

Kanter: 17.2 points, 15.8 rebounds
Thompson: 14.3 points, 12.1 rebounds

O & D ratings

Kanter: O 123, D 104
Thompson: O 112, D 114

So going from Kanter to Thompson seems like a step down for Boston. But since Kanter was gone, Thompson seems to be a reasonable replacement.
 

slamminsammya

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Thompson is an absolutely fantastic rebounder. So was Kanter though. Career per 36 numbers:

Kanter: 19.2 points, 12.6 rebounds
Thompson: 12.1 points, 11.2 rebounds

Career O and D rating

Kanter: O 114, D 108
Thompson: O 115, D 109

This past season, per 36 numbers:

Kanter: 17.2 points, 15.8 rebounds
Thompson: 14.3 points, 12.1 rebounds

O & D ratings

Kanter: O 123, D 104
Thompson: O 112, D 114

So going from Kanter to Thompson seems like a step down for Boston. But since Kanter was gone, Thompson seems to be a reasonable replacement.
O and D rating don't mean much of anything if those are the ones from basketball reference. Thompson is in another universe as Kanter defensively. A better universe.
 

OurF'ingCity

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Thompson is an absolutely fantastic rebounder. So was Kanter though. Career per 36 numbers:

Kanter: 19.2 points, 12.6 rebounds
Thompson: 12.1 points, 11.2 rebounds

Career O and D rating

Kanter: O 114, D 108
Thompson: O 115, D 109

This past season, per 36 numbers:

Kanter: 17.2 points, 15.8 rebounds
Thompson: 14.3 points, 12.1 rebounds

O & D ratings

Kanter: O 123, D 104
Thompson: O 112, D 114

So going from Kanter to Thompson seems like a step down for Boston. But since Kanter was gone, Thompson seems to be a reasonable replacement.

I don’t buy that Kanter is better than Thompson and clearly neither does the market. Not sure how valuable those per 36 numbers are since we know there are lots of scenarios and even full games where Kanter is entirely unplayable. Thompson has averaged around 28 mpg for his career, Kanter hasn’t played that many minutes per game since 2014.
 

BaseballJones

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O and D rating don't mean much of anything if those are the ones from basketball reference. Thompson is in another universe as Kanter defensively. A better universe.
They are, and why are they worthless? What does basketball-reference do that makes them worthless?
 

slamminsammya

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They are, and why are they worthless? What does basketball-reference do that makes them worthless?
So its kind of like WAR in that different places use the same name for a statistic that is computed differently and have different meanings, but D rating is just the team's points per 100 possessions for the minutes the player was on the floor. There is literally zero consideration of the player's individual attributes.

O-rating does involve some calculation related to a player's usage and box score statistics etc, but I recall the bbref computation has the issue that a lot of first generation basketball stats suffered from in massively overweighting 1) offensive rebounding and 2) shooting efficiency (while ignoring volume or shot type etc) which tends to overemphasize exactly the type of player Thompson is - high efficiency, low usage bruisers who don't have much offensive game besides putbacks and hustle points.
 

lexrageorge

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In this market, TT getting the MLE money is not at all surprising, so I don't get the "overpay" comments at all. I think some folks need to calibrate the money that veteran NBA players in their prime actually make. It's not a steal, but it's by no means an onerous contract commitment either. If he allows them to get past the Heat or Philly in a playoff series, the money will be more than worth it.
 

mcpickl

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In this market, TT getting the MLE money is not at all surprising, so I don't get the "overpay" comments at all. I think some folks need to calibrate the money that veteran NBA players in their prime actually make. It's not a steal, but it's by no means an onerous contract commitment either. If he allows them to get past the Heat or Philly in a playoff series, the money will be more than worth it.
The full MLE is a lot for a backup that can't player anywhere but center.

It's a lot
 

BaseballJones

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So its kind of like WAR in that different places use the same name for a statistic that is computed differently and have different meanings, but D rating is just the team's points per 100 possessions for the minutes the player was on the floor. There is literally zero consideration of the player's individual attributes.

O-rating does involve some calculation related to a player's usage and box score statistics etc, but I recall the bbref computation has the issue that a lot of first generation basketball stats suffered from in massively overweighting 1) offensive rebounding and 2) shooting efficiency (while ignoring volume or shot type etc) which tends to overemphasize exactly the type of player Thompson is - high efficiency, low usage bruisers who don't have much offensive game besides putbacks and hustle points.
Ok thanks. Makes sense. So....Thompson is an upgrade over Kanter then?
 

scottyno

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I don't see the appeal of Harrison. Why not get Iwundu, who is better.


It wasn't an option for 2 reasons...
1. he signed before we knew we had the full MLE to use
2. He signed with the defending champions, we were likely never on the list.
He would have signed with the lakers for that same deal if they were the defending champs or not
 

slamminsammya

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So they must be planning on getting heavy minutes for timelord right? As has been mentioned this is the primo year to punt seeding considerations.

I'm not optimistic about timelord getting his defense up to snuff but they have to give him the reps and find out.
 

Pablo's TB Lover

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Well the per 36 numbers are useless if there is NO WAY IN HELL Kanter would play more than half that amount in any given game in the latter portion of last season. Tristan is what he is: an upgrade athletically, not an elite defender (less than 1 block/game) nor an especially tough finisher (career 3 FTA per game seems kind of low). But to put it in Celtics vernacular he is a rich man's Mark Blount, if that makes any sense.
 

RedOctober3829

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He is excited about it? Did he share with you? I wasn't talking about Ainge. I am referring to all the folks who keep clamoring for more bigs. You just don't need that many expensive players in those roles. Few are worth what they get paid in a hoops sense.

Its fine. It soaks up minutes and gives Stevens another option for a big.
TT is a role guy like Kanter was but I think TT can have a bigger impact on the glass and certainly moreso defensively.
 

slamminsammya

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Ok thanks. Makes sense. So....Thompson is an upgrade over Kanter then?
I'd guess so, at the very least thompson is a legit defender. Kanter is up there for worst in the nba. That's the gap we are talking about. And that wouldn't show up in d rating since kanter was in a good defensive system and deployed to hide his massive weakness. Thompson has been playing on a young and shitty cleveland defense and so wouldnt look great on d rating.
 

BaseballJones

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I'd guess so, at the very least thompson is a legit defender. Kanter is up there for worst in the nba. That's the gap we are talking about. And that wouldn't show up in d rating since kanter was in a good defensive system and deployed to hide his massive weakness. Thompson has been playing on a young and shitty cleveland defense and so wouldnt look great on d rating.
Ok. I just remember Thompson being an animal on the boards and being a really tough-minded player. I think Boston could use a guy like that.
 

lexrageorge

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The full MLE is a lot for a backup that can't player anywhere but center.

It's a lot
Does it matter given the way the NBA works? TT made a lot more than MLE money his last contract. And there's still plenty of teams with full MLE to spend and not many players to spend it on.

Celtics don't have roster spots to split the MLE, and it's unclear who's available that could fit into a MLE remnant. They'll stay out of the tax this season unless they somehow get a TPE for Hayward and manage to use it all.
 

Cellar-Door

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The MLE really isn't a lot for your first off the bench at big, wing or ballhandler.

This is a good deal. Thompson is a center who can start or play off the bench depending on opponent, and has a number of clear skills that play.
 

radsoxfan

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Agree there was no reasonable way to split up the MLE and we don't have the roster spots anyway.

Teague and Thompson are highly mediocre but at least NBA caliber reserves.

If they end up in the 7-9th range in the rotation that would be a legit upgrade from some of the slop Brad was forced to play last year.
 

TripleOT

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So the Celtics will be paying three centers the same money combined as what Turner makes. In a league where centers aren’t a focus, that seems like the smart way to go.

I see TT as a starter with Boston.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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What is going here is your obnoxious line that basically states that anyone who is excited about this move doesn’t understand how the game is played.

I didn’t take a shot at you. I am pushing back on you for that bullshit statement.

You are better than that.
I am absolutely not better than that (several posters heads are now nodding in agreement).

I stand by my statement - the NBA in 2020 doesn't place a high value on bigs who are elite at rebounding only. They have value but teams don't view that skill as highly as they used to. Its why teams have players sprinting back the minute the shot goes up on O.
 

BigSoxFan

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I am absolutely not better than that (several posters heads are now nodding in agreement).

I stand by my statement - the NBA in 2020 doesn't place a high value on bigs who are elite at rebounding only. They have value but teams don't view that skill as highly as they used to. Its why teams have players sprinting back the minute the shot goes up on O.
It’s not the opinion that bothered me, just the delivery. Certainly valid arguments to be made on both sides.

In any case, too much to discuss to bog down the thread with a pissing match. We good.
 

reggiecleveland

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First I admit I am biased because he is a Canadian, and guys with inside info love the kid.
He is so much better at what they need than Kanter, and is bigger and tougher than Theis, and On D will not be immobile like Kanter or lost in no man's land like Timelord. He is a tough kid, he goes at it.
You have to guard him when he rolls, and is pretty experienced guy that moves the ball on O. I expect you will see a better flow with him in there than the other forwards.

Kemba's knee is okay this is a squad fellas!
 

ifmanis5

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They're about 3 years too late with this but still a decent signing. Brad will manage the minutes and keep him healthy. He won't have to do all that much other than the dirty work, hope he's cool with that.
 

Ale Xander

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Gross. Don't want to root for him and not at that salary. He can't shoot. And isn't he a cheap shot artist too or am I confusing him with someone?

Should have made one more pick and grabbed a big guy
 

HomeRunBaker

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I take back what I said. Full mid level is not a good deal. I really, really hope that the Jays both take considerable leaps because, without that, this offseason has been a fucking shit show
What difference does full MLE make? We’ve locked up our entire rotation so any additional money wouldn’t have any use to us anyway. Another nice move by Ainge to matchup with a select few teams in the playoffs.
 

osori

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We did need a body to fill the Kanter role, so not a bad move in the current situation.
 

Ale Xander

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Tommy would have loved this signing— a lunch pail big who hits the offensive boards.

Toughness is an underrated commodity in today’s NBA. Having a guy like TT who will bang every second he’s on the court, content to get his shots off second effort, will fit in well with this squad
This isn't the late 80's or 90''s anymore
 

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Gross. Don't want to root for him and not at that salary. He can't shoot. And isn't he a cheap shot artist too or am I confusing him with someone?

Should have made one more pick and grabbed a big guy
Any big guy they would have grabbed with one more pick wouldn't contribute anything close to what TT will add this season.
 

Cellar-Door

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This isn't the late 80's or 90''s anymore
Rebounding and rim protection still play if you can do a decent job closing shooters.
Tristan Thompson is a good solid NBA player in any era

Edit- also Thompson is a very good screener and roll-man, both keys in our offense.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Any big guy they would have grabbed with one more pick wouldn't contribute anything close to what TT will add this season.
Exactly. We are playing for a Championship......not giving tryouts to rookies and 2nd year PGs hoping they are capable reg season rotation players. The playoffs are about veterans and experience in those circumstances.
 

mcpickl

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Does it matter given the way the NBA works? TT made a lot more than MLE money his last contract. And there's still plenty of teams with full MLE to spend and not many players to spend it on.

Celtics don't have roster spots to split the MLE, and it's unclear who's available that could fit into a MLE remnant. They'll stay out of the tax this season unless they somehow get a TPE for Hayward and manage to use it all.
Of course it matters.

This is the thinking that has so many terrible contracts in the NBA.

Well, we can't replace Marcus Morris if he leaves, so we better give him 4/64
Well, we can't get a star to take our money, so we better give Hayward 4/120
Well, we need a backup center and have the full MLE available, we might as well give it to Tristan Thompson.

Just because you have the full MLE, doesn't mean you have to give the full MLE for two years for a guy who probably isn't worth it.

And yes, before there are ten replies saying awww you can use the bigger salary for matching up in trades, I know how the cap works. Don't need the lesson. You don't need to overpay players for theoretical future trades.
 

OurF'ingCity

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I think this has been mentioned in one of the threads but for what it’s worth TT did shoot 39% from three last year on 29 attempts. Which obviously isn’t much but I wouldn’t be particularly surprised if he followed the Aron Baynes trajectory of a guy who literally didn’t take any 3s for much of his career and then turned into someone who will throw it up with decent frequency (for comparison’s sake Baynes shot 21 threes three seasons ago, then 61 in his last season in Boston, then 168 last season, while managing to keep his 3P% around 35% even as the attempts increased).
 

lexrageorge

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Of course it matters.

This is the thinking that has so many terrible contracts in the NBA.

Well, we can't replace Marcus Morris if he leaves, so we better give him 4/64
Well, we can't get a star to take our money, so we better give Hayward 4/120
Well, we need a backup center and have the full MLE available, we might as well give it to Tristan Thompson.

Just because you have the full MLE, doesn't mean you have to give the full MLE for two years for a guy who probably isn't worth it.

And yes, before there are ten replies saying awww you can use the bigger salary for matching up in trades, I know how the cap works. Don't need the lesson. You don't need to overpay players for theoretical future trades.
Thompson was getting full MLE from some team.

Saving a couple of million in salary and ending up with a player far worse but more efficient from a payroll perspective doesn't do it for me. Thompson is getting nowhere near the money of either Hayward or Morris, so your analogy doesn't hold at all.
 

OurF'ingCity

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Thompson was getting full MLE from some team.

Saving a couple of million in salary and ending up with a player far worse but more efficient from a payroll perspective doesn't do it for me. Thompson is getting nowhere near the money of either Hayward or Morris, so your analogy doesn't hold at all.
This. The people saying this is an overpay need to the answer the question of what the Celtics should have done instead. If they don’t sign Thompson, who do they sign and for how much less?
 

Cellar-Door

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Of course it matters.

This is the thinking that has so many terrible contracts in the NBA.

Well, we can't replace Marcus Morris if he leaves, so we better give him 4/64
Well, we can't get a star to take our money, so we better give Hayward 4/120
Well, we need a backup center and have the full MLE available, we might as well give it to Tristan Thompson.

Just because you have the full MLE, doesn't mean you have to give the full MLE for two years for a guy who probably isn't worth it.

And yes, before there are ten replies saying awww you can use the bigger salary for matching up in trades, I know how the cap works. Don't need the lesson. You don't need to overpay players for theoretical future trades.
I get that in a vacuum. The problem is.....

This isn't even close to an overpay. Tristan Thompson is worth the full MLE. He's a starting caliber center who has an elite skill (rebounding) and is above league average in several others.
He was getting at least a full MLE offer from multiple teams.

He's also a good fit for the roster, providing matchup versatility against a number of this team's likely playoff opponents.
 

Euclis20

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I think this has been mentioned in one of the threads but for what it’s worth TT did shoot 39% from three last year on 29 attempts. Which obviously isn’t much but I wouldn’t be particularly surprised if he followed the Aron Baynes trajectory of a guy who literally didn’t take any 3s for much of his career and then turned into someone who will throw it up with decent frequency (for comparison’s sake Baynes shot 21 threes three seasons ago, then 61 in his last season in Boston, then 168 last season, while managing to keep his 3P% around 35% even as the attempts increased).
There is a pretty rich recent history of big men adding 3 point shots later in their career, and there's one really common thread between them: FT%

Al Horford: 75%
Baynes: 80%
Brooke Lopez: 79%
Marc Gasol: 78%
Chris Bosh: 80%
Serge Ibaka: 76%

Tristan Thompson: 61%

I wouldn't hold my breath that the incredibly small sample from last year continues.