Trading Rondo...

leetinsley38

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ifmanis5 said:
SI's Chris Mannix: Lakers want Rondo in the summer. No sources quoted in the article, seems like speculation.
 
LINK: http://www.si.com/nba/2014/11/05/kobe-bryant-los-angeles-lakers-trade-rumors-reports
I think you call up Kobe and offer him Rondo for Julius Randle (injured) and the Houston #1 pick.  Neither of those assets are helping Kobe this year and he knows his clock is ticking.  Rondo gets him 3-4 more easy baskets a game and makes it that much easier to reach Kareem's all time scoring record.  And he probably thinks w/Rondo they can make a run at a playoff spot or at least respectability, providing him cover as he guns his way to point # 38,388 instead of it being a complete farce/laughingstock.  Rondo will be happy to rack up 15 assists a game and sign a max deal with the Lakers.  Everyone wins.  
 

nighthob

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Given how badly Irving's played this season he might be a possible target for a Rondo deal.
 

ElcaballitoMVP

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What would be an offer for Rondo that would work from the Kings? Stauskas and next years 1st? More? Less? Reason why I thibk it might be more is that the owner clearly wants to make the playoffs, backcourt is terrible, and Rondo is Boogie Cousins approved (see BS Report he was on) so he has a lot of value to them
 
That's the thing, they just don't have much to offer. I'm not sure they want to give up on Stauskas already and their '15 1st is heading to Chicago (top 10 protected). So you're either looking at a '16 pick swap or '17 1st round pick if they're including picks in an offer. I also think they'd look to move McLemore before Stauskas.

Realistically, I think they'd offer something like Derrick Williams (expiring $6.3M), McLemore ($3M, 3 years left) and a '17 1st rounder with top 10 protection. McLemore has been a big disappointment and the pick isn't likely to bring back anything special. If there is even a 25% chance that Rondo would resign in Boston long term, I think I'd rather just keep him and hope we can get him on a deal that doesn't kill our cap situation.
 

Eddie Jurak

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I think Rondo does resign in Boston, maybe for less than the max.

Clearly, he doesn't have a huge trade market. It's hard to imagine that he can only be traded at a big discount today but teams will beat down his door looking to give him max money in the offseason. All it takes is one, of course, but how many guys with minimal trade value during their contract go on to a max deal?

At the same time, unless the Celtics are going to go "full Sixers", they need him. Marcus Smart and Evan Turnover are not the answer at PG. Maybe Smart will eventually be the answer, but he isn't yet. Rondo isn't going to grind the offense to a halt to rack up stats - he's shown that he can run and rack up stats.
 

Grin&MartyBarret

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It's been covered forever, but I just can't really find the market. Surprises happen, and there are teams out there that may feel like they hold the key to working around his shortcomings, but ultimately, I think the return's going to be pretty minimal. I still think Sacramento makes the most sense, just because Sacramento never makes sense, and could see a package of Stauskus, Williams, and a pick coming back. His value's going to be hampered by his pending free agency, and I just cant imagine there are a ton of teams out there willing to give him the max he's going to go looking for. That will limit what teams offer, and Sacramento's the team out there that seems crazy enough to pull the trigger anyhow and max him out if it comes down to that.
 

ifmanis5

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The interesting part is that Boston now wants to throw Green in as a package deal with Rondo. Selling high on Green since he's having a decent year seems fine with me.
 

ALiveH

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The Kings seem like a good trade partner b/c their owner is an idiot.  A great candidate for an Ainge pickoff.
 
I see a bunch of possibilities on the Kings...
 
Glancing through the roster, I see Mclemore having a decent year at 21 even though a bunch of people here were ready to label him a bust as a 20 year old...  the owner could talk himself into the idea that Rondo-Gay-Green-Cousins is a core that can compete for a championship (hah!)... maybe we can trade Rondo + Green for salary filler + Stauskas, McLemore & a first.  I'd do that deal.
 

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Green won't be as effective without Rondo getting him the ball in position for one of his (otherwise very predictable) go-to moves, so yeah, sell high.
 

FelixMantilla

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TheDeuce222 said:
 Frankly, I'm most looking forward to not having to hear the incessant whining about Rondo allegedly being a demonstrably bad player from certain corners of the internet.  
 
Wait a second! Woj reads HRB?
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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ALiveH said:
The Kings seem like a good trade partner b/c their owner is an idiot.  A great candidate for an Ainge pickoff.
 
I see a bunch of possibilities on the Kings...
 
Glancing through the roster, I see Mclemore having a decent year at 21 even though a bunch of people here were ready to label him a bust as a 20 year old...  the owner could talk himself into the idea that Rondo-Gay-Green-Cousins is a core that can compete for a championship (hah!)... maybe we can trade Rondo + Green for salary filler + Stauskas, McLemore & a first.  I'd do that deal.
Jeez - we covered this in another thread. Vivek Ranadive may be unconventional in his thinking but he is anything but an idiot. It doesn't mean the Kings wont trade for Rondo but don't assume its because of stupidity. The Kings already have a point guard in Collison and he has played well thus far.

I think the Lakers make a lot of sense but they are almost certainly playing for that pick. Rondo wouldn't help in that regard.
 

dylanmarsh

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The team that makes the most sense to me is the Phoenix Suns. Having seen the player dynamic behind the scenes, Eric Bledsoe seems to be the most likely player on the block - very much a separatist - and he can be traded starting on 12/23. However, Goran Dragic might more sense since he, too, will be a free agent next summer (he has an opt-out) and then Bledsoe would slide over to SG. The Suns also own the Lakers first pick with very little protection.
 

BigMike

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dylanmarsh said:
The team that makes the most sense to me is the Phoenix Suns. Having seen the player dynamic behind the scenes, Eric Bledsoe seems to be the most likely player on the block - very much a separatist - and he can be traded starting on 12/23. However, Goran Dragic might more sense since he, too, will be a free agent next summer (he has an opt-out) and then Bledsoe would slide over to SG. The Suns also own the Lakers first pick with very little protection.
 
Team is playing to well, must tank harder . I take it you use the lakers pick to suggest Phoenix would deal their own pick, because they have a much higher pick?
 
Honestly I don't see why Phoenix or Sacramento make a move like this.  Best case scenario it makes them a 60/40 chance to sneak into the playoffs as the #8 seed.   Pretty much no chance to get any higher that that
 
I
 

thehitcat

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Who or what do the Mavs have to trade that would interest the Celtics?  I jumped on the old trade machine and couldn't make anything palatable happen, or really anything happen at all without it being something like 5 players for Rondo. I don't know enough about the Mavs but Aminu and Crowder seem to get some minutes.  Can someone with a better feel for either Texas team weigh in?
 

RedOctober3829

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@ESPNSteinLine: Story going online details Celtics/Mavs talks in which Boston would get at least one first and blossoming center Brandan Wright for Rondo

@ESPNSteinLine: Celtics ARE talking to other teams -- most notably Knicks and Kings -- but sources say most serious Rondo talks to date are with Mavericks
 

thehitcat

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OK so I make it work on the trade machine using rondo to the Mavs and Felton, Nelson, Jefferson (sadly I can't trade for Charlie Villanueva) Aminu and Crowder or Aminu and Greg Smith or Crowder and Smith or 3 of Jefferson, Aminu, Crowder and Smith (or Ricky Ledo I suppose as well.)  That my friends feels like a Pu Pu platter of ick and I'd want at least 2 firsts in say 2016 and 2018 after Dirk has left to make it semi palatable...Also Felton and Nelson's deals go for 2 seasons not just this one.  
 
I can dump the 3 of 4 min players and it works with Felton, Nelson and Wright for Rondo.  We get about 1.5 in salary relief this season (looks like they'd dump Jefferson or Ledo on us as well in that case.)  Wright is only signed for this season as well at 5 Million per. don't know what his rights look like if he's restricted or not. 
 

thehitcat

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Brandan Wright is an Unrestricted Free Agent this coming off season.  Not really a building block but he does seem to put up pretty good block numbers, currently 14th in the league at 1.50 per. 
 

cardiacs

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Wright would cause a bigger logjam in the middle than we have already. Would we ever play Olynyk at the 3 for stretches? Dirk's done it a few times in the past....
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Rondo and the Mavs, huh? It makes sense on paper. He is a better ball handler than Jameer Nelson and he could be crazy good feeding Dirk and Monta. That said, does Dallas pick up in defense what they lose in offense in that swap?
 

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RedOctober3829 said:
I'd rather have Houston's package centering around Terrence Jones than Dallas' pile of shit.
It's all a bunch of bench crap that would be on the table. If Wright was locked up for a couple years he would be a solid return since he gives up frontcourt length which is a big hole right now. I'm not sure he's the type of player Ainge wants to extend to a 5/$40m deal this summer though.

Still don't see any matches for Rondo.
 

Mloaf71

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I'm not sure Ainge can sit in his office saying to himself "there are no matches across the entire NBA for Rondo" like all of us are.

He HAS to trade Rondo or he gets NOTHING for him at the end of the year.

Trading Rondo (and potentially Green) will net Ainge a first round pick and improve the Celtics own first round pick by making the team worse.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Mloaf71 said:
I'm not sure Ainge can sit in his office saying to himself "there are no matches across the entire NBA for Rondo" like all of us are.

He HAS to trade Rondo or he gets NOTHING for him at the end of the year.

Trading Rondo (and potentially Green) will net Ainge a first round pick and improve the Celtics own first round pick by making the team worse.
There is a difference between saying there are no matches for a JR Smith who nobody likely would get near and being no matches for a rental PG like Rondo.

The players mentioned from Dallas are salary fodder......he'd be swapped for a low 1st if this goes down from whats being written. That's about as max of a return there is. If you want to say "I told you there was a match we just got the 23rd pick for Rondo!" hey have a ball with that.....it's kinda my point.

PS- Losing Rondo has never made the Celtics worse in the past. It isn't likely to begin occurring now.
 

Eddie Jurak

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What do we think Rondo gets as a free agent?  Obviously, he wants a max deal - but is there any team that would give him one?  
 

Jeff Van GULLY

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I laughed at this line:
 
 
Sources told ESPN.com that the Celtics and Mavericks have been discussing a swap that would furnish Boston with multiple draft picks -- including at least one future first-rounder -- as well as blossoming Mavericks center Brandan Wright
He's 27, in his 7th year in the league and averaging 8 and 4.  And as others have already mentioned, he's an UFA at the end of the season.  Mavericks only own a future 2nd rounder other than their own picks so we would be banking on a Rondo/Ellis combo somehow faltering the in the future and getting us a lottery pick?  No way.
 
My belief is the Celtics floated this deal out there to get other teams more engaged, since other teams have better packages they can offer for Rondo.
 

CreightonGubanich

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For the Celtics, the only value is the pick, and better draft position in 2015. It'd be nice if they could get an unprotected first rounder from Dallas outside the Dirk window, like a 2018 pick to coincide with the Brooklyn haul, but that's highly unlikely. If it's Dallas' 2015 pick, this is mostly a tanking move and an attempt to get something rather than nothing. It means they've decided keeping Rondo as part of the next competitive Celtics team is not an option.
 
For Dallas, getting Rondo would be a fascinating experiment. They have a pick-and-roll point guard's dream roster. Notice how well Rondo works with Zeller on the pick-and-roll, because Zeller's great at rolling to the basket and has the hands to catch the ball on the move? Tyson Chandler is that times ten, with the ability to finish strong at the rim. Obviously, Dirk is the ultimate pick-and-pop big man, a talented screener who can bend defenses, and whose mere presence should allow Rondo to get into the paint at will. But at the same time, while Rondo is a great passer and decision maker on the pick-and-roll, his lack of shooting will close some of the space that would otherwise be there. I'll be interested to see if his passing is a net positive for Dallas on those plays versus a guard with shooting range like Nelson. These days, Dallas relies an awful lot on Monta Ellis, and he's been fantastic, reigning in most of the bad habits he'd had in Milwaukee and Golden State. While Ellis isn't a point guard, he is a lead guard that needs the ball in his hands to be effective. I'm not sure he has the skill set to be effective off the ball, and I'm not sure it's a great move for Dallas to pair him with another guard who's worthless without the ball in his hands.
 
That said, if there's a coach in the league that can find a way to incorporate what Rondo does well into a championship offense, it's Rick Carlisle. Dallas will be fun to watch if this trade goes down.
 

Devizier

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DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
Rondo and the Mavs, huh? It makes sense on paper. He is a better ball handler than Jameer Nelson and he could be crazy good feeding Dirk and Monta. That said, does Dallas pick up in defense what they lose in offense in that swap?
 
Probably, because Jameer Nelson died a few years ago.
 

Grin&MartyBarret

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Dallas is actually one of the better on-court fits I've heard rumored. You need shooters all over the floor to be successful with Rondo, and Dirk, Parsons, and Ellis are a pretty solid start.
 

ifmanis5

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Grin&MartyBarret said:
Dallas is actually one of the better on-court fits I've heard rumored. You need shooters all over the floor to be successful with Rondo, and Dirk, Parsons, and Ellis are a pretty solid start.
Agreed, it's great for Dallas but they don't have good assets coming back. Their pick won't be worth much and Wright, as mentioned above, never really made it.
 

Grin&MartyBarret

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Yeah, I just think that's the reality of the market for Rondo right now. The timing of his injury was really problematic as it made him a short term rental for anybody. And as has been covered once or thrice here, when you factor in his weaknesses and the questions regarding fit, I think getting a decent rim protecting center and a late first is not a bad haul at this point.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Devizier said:
 
Probably, because Jameer Nelson died a few years ago.
Well his undead offensive game is far superior to Rondo's absolutely dead one. And while Nelson is no defensive stalwart, his net rating is better than Rondo's. Rajon is the better player but statistically the difference isnt as great as you might think.
 

fairlee76

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DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
Well his undead offensive game is far superior to Rondo's absolutely dead one. And while Nelson is no defensive stalwart, his net rating is better than Rondo's. Rajon is the better player but statistically the difference isnt as great as you might think.
But Rondo works much better with that supporting cast than Nelson from a ball movement standpoint, right?  I have not seen the Mavs play this year, but Nelson never struck me as a pass-first/second/third point guard.
 
Not a huge fan of the discussed return for the Celtics* but would be excited to watch Rondo play with plus NBA scorers.
 
*  Unless their level of post-Rondo suck lands them one of the top-3 picks in the draft.  In which case I like this deal.
 

BigMike

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ifmanis5 said:
Agreed, it's great for Dallas but they don't have good assets coming back. Their pick won't be worth much and Wright, as mentioned above, never really made it.
 
agreed Dallas can't offer much, and Sacramento can in theory offer more.   I just don't see why Sacramento offers so much more just to give themselves a slightly better shot at the 8th playoff spot
 
Dallas on the other hand actually makes sense trading for Rondo,  he might just make them a real contender
 

Grin&MartyBarret

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fairlee76 said:
But Rondo works much better with that supporting cast than Nelson from a ball movement standpoint, right?  I have not seen the Mavs play this year, but Nelson never struck me as a pass-first/second/third point guard.
 
Not a huge fan of the discussed return for the Celtics* but would be excited to watch Rondo play with plus NBA scorers.
 
*  Unless their level of post-Rondo suck lands them one of the top-3 picks in the draft.  In which case I like this deal.
 
They have the best offense in the league right now. I'm not sure the ball's sticking much.
 

nighthob

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BigMike said:
agreed Dallas can't offer much, and Sacramento can in theory offer more.   I just don't see why Sacramento offers so much more just to give themselves a slightly better shot at the 8th playoff spot
Because making the playoffs is a huge step forward for the Kings?
 

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I'm still holding out hope that Kobe can once again take over the Laker's FO and send their 2015 first rounder over for Rondo.
 

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nighthob said:
Because making the playoffs is a huge step forward for the Kings?
 
Unless Durant gets hurt again (or I suppose a star on one of the current top seven teams ), the Kings aren't going to make the playoffs anyway.
 

bowiac

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While Wright being UFA is a big problem, on talent, I think the Celtics  make out quite well there. Wright is a very good player in 18 minutes a game, and without any foul issues preventing him from being a full time starter.
 
He's a different type of player than Asik, but similar in that in that I think he can be a quality starter if asked.
 

Devizier

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I like Wright a lot more than Asik. Not sure he has much of a future with the Celtics, unless Ainge has an extension planned.
 

bowiac

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Devizier said:
I like Wright a lot more than Asik. Not sure he has much of a future with the Celtics, unless Ainge has an extension planned.
Yeah, I don't quite see it as result.
 
I'm also not sure what this does for Dallas. They have enough shooting I guess to cover up Rondo's warts, but they need a defense first PG, which Rondo just isn't these days. Their offense is working great as is. 
 

ALiveH

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I don't see how Rondo fits into our rebuild, especially if there's no hometown discount & he's just going to go to the highest bidder & expect a near-max deal.  Getting anything (i.e., at least a 1st, preferably two or equivalent value) is better than getting nothing for him, plus it will probably bump up this year's lottery position by a couple spots.  I also don't see a robust market for him.  Unless we get incredibly lucky & some team is vastly overvaluing a Rondo rental, I'm just trying to temper expectations for what I think many here will view as an underwhelming return if Ainge pulls the trigger.
 
Edit: just looked more closely at Wright.  Seems like a really nice player & potential roster fit for the C's.  Hopefully could re-sign him for something reasonable.  Does he have the size to play Center?
 

nighthob

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NYCSox said:
Unless Durant gets hurt again (or I suppose a star on one of the current top seven teams ), the Kings aren't going to make the playoffs anyway.
The calculus is "Does player X bring us more than another late lottery pick in the crapshoot section of the draft?" and in this case the answer is certainly yes.
 

fairlee76

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cardiacs said:
Wright would cause a bigger logjam in the middle than we have already. Would we ever play Olynyk at the 3 for stretches? Dirk's done it a few times in the past....
Wright would represent an improvement defensively at the 5 over anything the Celts currently have.  Zeller's been alright but he's still best-suited as a reserve.  And is going to have a lot fewer easy opportunities when Rondo is moved.
 
Grin&MartyBarret said:
 
They have the best offense in the league right now. I'm not sure the ball's sticking much.
Yeah, I need to look up stats before I post.  But, maybe Rondo's all-around game helps them more than Nelson's in the playoffs?