Trading Jon Lester (news and speculation thread)

[dcmissle]

Beyond that, at a certain point, you don't acquiesce. You get your price, substantially above comp pick, or you hold on to Lester. The same with Lackey if teams get the sense you HAVE to trade him (stupid leak). Cause you DON'T, in either case. Don't let anyone steal either of them and earn a rep as an easy mark.

 

[Lanternjaw]

sniff, sniff...
 
this place is buzzing today

 

[jimbobim]

Beyond that, at a certain point, you don't acquiesce. You get your price, substantially above comp pick, or you hold on to Lester. The same with Lackey if teams get the sense you HAVE to trade him (stupid leak). Cause you DON'T, in either case. Don't let anyone steal either of them and earn a rep as an easy mark.

 
 



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Gordon Edes‏@GordonEdes

L. Lucchino on NESN: "We're a little more skeptical of utility and value" of long-term deals. But we're not going to preclude any avenue.''
 
 
Sure don't see that as leaving any room for Lester to come back either in the offseason which was always a delusion or not trading him. This may very well go down to the deadline before any other GM is honest. I mean today and yesterday pretty much every team said " We're not trading anyone in our top 5 for a "rental" while every beat writer/ pundit stressed not to sell "the future" for a rental. Someone hopefully blinks.

 

[dcmissle]

I read it the opposite.

A "little more skeptical"?

"Not going to preclude any option"?

You may not think this is a credible threat but I view it as a threat to reverse course on our plans. And I hope it is genuine.

Lester is likely to alter the landscape of this race. In the end, the trade bait remain "prospects", by definition incapable of helping them now.

Screw them.

 

[OnWisc]

Beyond that, at a certain point, you don't acquiesce. You get your price, substantially above comp pick, or you hold on to Lester. The same with Lackey if teams get the sense you HAVE to trade him (stupid leak). Cause you DON'T, in either case. Don't let anyone steal either of them and earn a rep as an easy mark.

If Lester were to get stolen, it would reflect just as poorly on any GM who failed to top such a low bid by a competitor.

I don't necessarily see this thing heading to the deadline, either. I could see one team just stepping up and topping the other existing bids by enough that Ben agrees pretty much on the spot. Most clubs probably have an idea of what that package would be, too.

 

[Otis Foster]

I read it the opposite.
A "little more skeptical"?
"Not going to preclude any option"?
You may not think this is a credible threat but I view it as a threat to reverse course on our plans. And I hope it is genuine.
Lester is likely to alter the landscape of this race. In the end, the trade bait remain "prospects", by definition incapable of helping them now.
Screw them.

Amen.

This isn't a going out of business or a secured creditor sale. BC gives them the bottom line and 24 hours to think about. Don't bother to call again unless the answer is yes. And subject of course to prior sale.

The only thing that wld dictate taking a weaker offer is if the player was poisoning the clubhouse. With Lester, that's not an issue. Lackey? Maybe a bit different.

 

[catomatic]

I read it the opposite.

A "little more skeptical"?

"Not going to preclude any option"?

You may not think this is a credible threat but I view it as a threat to reverse course on our plans. And I hope it is genuine.

Lester is likely to alter the landscape of this race. In the end, the trade bait remain "prospects", by definition incapable of helping them now.

Screw them.

Forgive my possible dimness here, but are you reading Larry's tea leaves as saying we might pull him off the trade table and resign him ourselves even though we are wary of the type of commitment it would take to sign Jon Lester? Is that your take? Honest question. And if so, does that suggest that their modus operandi (call me a naive sap) was to sign him this offseason all along? That they are just going to plan B because there's not enough on the table for Jon? Or he's trying to get more on the table with this statement? It's very lawyerly, as always, but it smells like code in some way. 

 

[Ferm Sheller]

It would be awesome if they announced that they traded middling prospects to re-acquire Peavy and added "No more moves.  We got this." 

 

[dcmissle]

Forgive my possible dimness here, but are you reading Larry's tea leaves as saying we might pull him off the trade table and resign him ourselves even though we are wary of the type of commitment it would take to sign Jon Lester? Is that your take? Honest question. And if so, does that suggest that their modus operandi (call me a naive sap) was to sign him this offseason all along? That they are just going to plan B because there's not enough on the table for Jon? Or he's trying to get more on the table with this statement? It's very lawyerly, as always, but it smells like code in some way. 

I think that is the fair implication of the tweet.

I hope it is genuine and not a bluff.

Do I think it will happen? No.

Could it happen? Yes.

It could happen because, thankfully, they have not burned bridges with Lester. Good for them for not making this personal.

And remember -- we do not know how conflicted they may be internally about this strategic decision.

 

[catomatic]

I think that is the fair implication of the tweet.

I hope it is genuine and not a bluff.

Do I think it will happen? No.

Could it happen? Yes.

It could happen because, thankfully, they have not burned bridges with Lester. Good for them for not making this personal.

And remember -- we do not know how conflicted they may be internally about this strategic decision.

Thanks for that. Your last point makes a lot of sense, especially in light of all the conjecture about John Henry's alleged new stance on 30+FAs—perhaps there is more active and vocal opposition to that stance in those conference rooms than one would think. Conjecture, conjecture, conjecture. But I too hope that backing away from the trade table is more a legitimate option than a feint.

 

[geoduck no quahog]

sniff, sniff...
 
this place is buzzing today

Hallelujah!

Every little thing's gonna be all right.!

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

sniff, sniff...
 
this place is buzzing today

Another damn gimmick account.

 

[catomatic]

Couldn't it also be read that they will be making an earnest attempt to sign him in FA? Market rates or not.

I'm wondering if that is the kind of thing you want to be vocal about in the eleventh hour of an attempt to trade him—to someone who might harbor aspirations of signing him themselves. That said, Larry's said some dumb, self-defeating shit in the past, so perhaps you're right.

 

[rundugrun]

I didn't see this posted. ESPN Radio reported at 7pm that Orioles and Sox are close to a deal for Lester. Apologies if this is the wrong thread.

 

[dcmissle]

I didn't see this posted. ESPN Radio reported at 7pm that Orioles and Sox are close to a deal for Lester. Apologies if this is the wrong thread.

Assuming this is not a joke, there is nothing on their website from hell

 

[Laser Show]

Assuming this is not a joke, there is nothing on their website from hell

I also would have figured we'd have heard more by this point. I'm guessing they just recycled Pete Abe/other reporter's tweets without reading anything more.

 

[Leskanic's Thread]

 
Nothing like a link to a twitter page and then having to scroll back through and guess what the poster was referring to.

 
Sorry if this is a late addition to the Tweet Wars, but wanted to say there's a way around this.  If all you end up seeing is a person's name, without a "click here to read tweet link," there will also be a timestamp next to it. "10s," "2min," etc. If you click on that, it takes you directly to the tweet in question. So at least there's that.

 

[rymflaherty]

Assuming this is not a joke, there is nothing on their website from hell

 
It was on the bottom line during the 6:30 SC.
During the "Lead" portion it stated something regarding the  Red Sox and Orioles nearing a deal for Lester.
 
 
I thought it was odd that was on ESPN yet no one was saying anything here so I didn't bother posting.
Plus the last time they had a Red Sox trade lead the bottom line was informing me that a Peavy/Cardinals deal was imminent.

 

[NortheasternPJ]

Nothing is going happen until we get close to the deadline tomorrow. Teams are not going to show their hand and reveal the upper limit until the end, and Cherington is not going to settle for any deal until he knows what the most every team is willing to give up.

 
 i wonder if in 2014 something the Nomar deal could happen that was announced at like 4:30 or so IIRC. I remember the trade deadline passing, hearing nothing, then all of a sudden a half hour later Nomar was gone. 

 

[rundugrun]

Assuming this is not a joke, there is nothing on their website from hell

Not a joke. I was listening to ESPN Radio and that was the lead story at 7:00pm.

 

[Darnell's Son]

 
 i wonder if in 2014 something the Nomar deal could happen that was announced at like 4:30 or so IIRC. I remember the trade deadline passing, hearing nothing, then all of a sudden a half hour later Nomar was gone. 

If negotiations are close, the teams can ask the commissioner's office for an extension.

 

[Reverend]

Not a joke. I was listening to ESPN Radio and that was the lead story at 7:00pm.

 
Oh it's a joke alright...

 

[Byrdbrain]

There is a locked thread about this report of Lester going to the O's.
It was originally tweeted by Pete Abe but then later refuted by Rosenthal and others.

 

[I am an Idiot]

There is a locked thread about this report of Lester going to the O's.
It was originally tweeted by Pete Abe but then later refuted by Rosenthal and others.

 

[Corsi]

 

Pete Abraham ‏@PeteAbe  18s
Orioles learning today that Hunter Harvey is out with a elbow injury helped derail Lester talks. Didn’t want to part with other prospects
 

 

[PeaceSignMoose]

Pete Abe must really trust his sources.  Insisting that there was something between Sox/Orioles despite Rosenthal and Dan Duquette pouring cold water all over those stories.

 

[mabrowndog]

sniff, sniff...
 
this place is buzzing today

 
Who the hell are you??

 

[mabrowndog]

Lester's agent, Seth Levinson, had a book made detailing all of Lester's stats in historical context with the greats of the game.
 
Gordon Edes
 

 
Back in more innocent times, when Seth Levinson was just beginning negotiations in the spring with the Red Sox on a contract extension for pitcher Jon Lester that most everyone assumed would arrive at a happy outcome, he gave his client a book he’d assembled for Lester’s personal enjoyment.

The book not only contained a recitation of Lester’s career accomplishments, but gave his performance some historical context, how the Sox left-handed matched up against some of the best pitchers in the game.

Levinson had an ulterior motive in creating this book: He planned to make sure it wound up on the nightstands of CEO Larry Lucchino and GM Ben Cherington, too, to remind them of what they truly had in Lester, who had just turned 30.

The book was an eye-opener for Lester.

“It went back from Day one of baseball statistics to now,’’ Lester said the other day in Tropicana Field. “It goes back to Cy Young, back to Steve Carlton. It compared you to a lot of these guys in the Hall of Fame when they were the same age as you.

“I said, Shoot, I’ve got some better numbers than some of these Hall of Famers. Maybe I am pretty good. This isn’t my first rodeo. I’ve done it a time or two. I’ve been pretty consistent. And that’s when you realize, Hey, I am pretty good.’’

And when you start thinking in those terms, and contemplate how important starting pitching is to a team’s success, you look at the market for pitchers at your level and resolve not to sell yourself short. That didn’t mean Lester tore up the hometown discount he had said he was willing to take at the outset of talks; it just meant there might have been a perception issue between his side and the Red Sox on what constituted a hometown discount.

 

[Fred in Lynn]

This isn't a going out of business or a secured creditor sale. BC gives them the bottom line and 24 hours to think about. Don't bother to call again unless the answer is yes. And subject of course to prior sale.

The only thing that wld dictate taking a weaker offer is if the player was poisoning the clubhouse. With Lester, that's not an issue. Lackey? Maybe a bit different.

On the last paragraph: What is the basis for suggesting Lackey is a bad teammate or trouble for management? Seems to me that since he was reborn lighter, trimmer, and more focused, he's been a dream for the field managers/coaches and front office. I have toddlers that are at war with sleep, so this is largely an honest question.

 

[mabrowndog]

Retweeted by Gordon Edes
Catherine Varitek ‏@CatherinVaritek 3m
Here's the deal.. This is my twitter handle NOT my husbands... therefor MY opinion is If they don't keep Lester, they seriously screw up

 

[rodderick]

Retweeted by Gordon Edes
Catherine Varitek ‏@CatherinVaritek 3m
Here's the deal.. This is my twitter handle NOT my husbands... therefor MY opinion is If they don't keep Lester, they seriously screw up

 
Sure, but what is Heidi Watney's opinion on the matter?

 

[P'tucket rhymes with...]

Retweeted by Gordon Edes
Catherine Varitek ‏@CatherinVaritek 3m
Here's the deal.. This is my twitter handle NOT my husbands... therefor MY opinion is If they don't keep Lester, they seriously screw up

The shark, it has been jumped.

 

[KillerBs]

Re Lackey being a bad apple, there is no basis for it all that I am aware of. .
 
As far as I can tell, the rationale for dealing Lackey involved the following:
 
a. if Lester is dealt he will be pissy, so they won't want him around (consider it part of cost of dealing Lester)
b. he will be too grumpy if we don't re-do his 500K deal for next year, and you know, they don't want to do that
c. we expect to be bad for awhile and Lackey won't be around by the time things turn around, so we might as well deal him for futures
d. we will use the prospects we get for Lackey to get Mike Stanton or Cliff Lee or someone really good later
e. we are conducting a fire sale
 
There was some sketchy report about him requesting a trade and it may well be that he is worth more than Lester at this stage. 

 

[sackamano]

So, he's grumpy and pissy but there's no basis for him being a bad apple ... thanks.

 

[Joshv02]

He is funny, talkative and gregarious. Just go to a charity and meet him. You couldn't be more wrong.

 

[Hank Scorpio]

It might be nothing, but I just noticed during Workman's postgame interview: Jon Lester's locker, with two boxes on top. 
 
(Yeah, yeah... I know.)

 

[sackamano]

One had fried chicken, the other, beer.

 

[Future Sox Doc]

He is funny, talkative and gregarious. Just go to a charity and meet him. You couldn't be more wrong.

 
I think a lot of people cling on to the story that went around that he left his wife while she was undergoing chemotherapy for breast cancer.  That's not stuff a good apple does, and may be the basis for a lot of the hate. 

 

[OnWisc]

Greinke reached for his calf after a pitch in the first. Went up the tunnel after the half inning, but back in the dugout now.

 

[sackamano]

Is there a lot of Boston sports figures who sit quietly and brood at charitable events?

 

[CaskNFappin]

 
I think a lot of people cling on to the story that went around that he left his wife while she was undergoing chemotherapy for breast cancer.  That's not stuff a good apple does, and may be the basis for a lot of the hate. 

I'm sure Stephen A Smith would say she had it coming

 

[OnWisc]

I'm sure Stephen A Smith would say she had it coming

He would have. But now he's apologized and been suspended a week so surely his fundamental, personal opinion on the issue has completely changed.

 

[CaskNFappin]

He would have. But now he's apologized and been suspended a week so surely his fundamental, personal opinion on the issue has completely changed.

Some folks might find your remarks racially charged....and by some folks I mean Stephen A Smith

 

[Oil Can Dan]

It might be nothing, but I just noticed during Workman's postgame interview: Jon Lester's locker, with two boxes on top. 
 
(Yeah, yeah... I know.)

One trophy per box then, right?

 

[KillerBs]

It is an interesting question -- is Lackey being shooped because he is "poisoning the clubhouse"? Certainly no suggestion of this from any of his teammates or Farrell. Seems inconsistent with observations and the old story about his wife doesn't pertain.
 
But the FO may be concerned he would be a problem, if his best buddy Lester gets moved and they dig in about him playing for 500K next year. So in the end it is about the money again.  

 

[sackamano]

Who said he was poisoning the clubhouse?
 
Who said Lester was his best buddy? It's been suggested that they're close.

 

[wibi]

It is an interesting question -- is Lackey being shooped because he is "poisoning the clubhouse"? Certainly no suggestion of this from any of his teammates or Farrell. Seems inconsistent with observations and the old story about his wife doesn't pertain.
 
But the FO may be concerned he would be a problem, if his best buddy Lester gets moved and they dig in about him playing for 500K next year. So in the end it is about the money again.  

 
Lackey is being shopped because the 2015 version of the Red Sox are not going to be winning much of anything as it looks right now and he's worth much more to the team as trade bait than as a cheap pitcher.  

 

[Rovin Romine]

Lester's agent, Seth Levinson, had a book made detailing all of Lester's stats in historical context with the greats of the game.
 
Gordon Edes

So, this is literally believing ones own press release.

 

[EvilEmpire]

So, this is literally believing ones own press release.

Sounds more reasonable than believing the Red Sox valuation of him this spring. He's certainly pitched that way this season.

 

[KillerBs]

Who said he was poisoning the clubhouse?
 
Who said Lester was his best buddy? It's been suggested that they're close.

Otis Foster suggested the possibility above, quoted in the post I was responding too.
 
Best buddy, close, whatever. I said the Sox MAY have concerns re how Lackey responds to a Lester deal and holding him to the 500K. Is this controversial?