Trading Jon Lester (news and speculation thread)
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There are 3 pitchers I would want starting game 1 of the World Series. Kershaw, Felix, or Lester.Stitch01 said:
Not that anyone asked, but the Sox don't get an "In Bill We Trust", Pats-like, blind faith from me. Of course the titles show they certainly "know what they're doing" so I don't subscribe to the hyperbole. But it's also the franchise of the 2011-12 offseason, so they're not infallible.
I think not being able to re-sign Lester is a mistake. Doesn't mean they're incompetent. But no one bats 1.000.
I think not being able to re-sign Lester is a mistake. Doesn't mean they're incompetent. But no one bats 1.000.
Pointing to the WS flags doesn't give this ownership a pass to now give the middle finger to Red Sox fans. Fan outrage is the only check on these guys going full robber-baron on us. If our payroll is at 180m next year, I will acknowledge my error, but I aint seeing it.
Rob Rossi (the cartoon character of Pittsburgh sports media) wants the Pirates to build a package for Lester around Pedro Alvarez
http://t.co/TtnYMAr45q
http://t.co/TtnYMAr45q
Mike Lynch on WCVB saying "Crystal clear signal he will be traded," and that Front Office made a verbal offer for Lester, a "bump up" which he refused and they took that as a sign that Lester was gone at the end of the season. (Don't shoot the messenger).
Norm Siebern said:
Were you this way when they couldn't sign Pedro?
Were you the other way after they signed Mike Lowell (clap,clap/clap,clap,clap)?
How were you when Mike Lowell broke down at the end of his deal and they couldn't trade him for a bag of used baseballs?
It's just hitting me that we are going to lose Lester. I guess I hoped cooler heads would have prevailed, but I guess not.
DrewDawg said:
Would they have won that title without kJon Letser? Tell me, who do tehy ahve now that will replace him? RdlR? Owens? Ranaudo? They are years away from where Letser is. So, when Lester starts to fade in the third or forth year of his contract, the next group will be ready to step up. So, sign Lester, let him pitch great for the next three years, OK the fourth year, and then suffer the consequences the two years after that. Right at the EXACT time when the next group is ready to replace him. Why is a team with this revenue stream so afraid of a bad contract at the tail end of three to four stellar years? It is ridiculous.
6 years, 140-150. Which is still cheaper than any other ace out there they are thinking of signing.
I'm taking the guys that are younger and better than him now for playoff starts from 2015-2018 regardless of postseason success over 11 starts. No disrespect to Lester, who is a really good pitcher who I love and will always be grateful for having been able to root for. I'd bet he's something like the 15th best pitcher in baseball over the next three years, which is super valuable.BigSoxFan said:
Get rid of KillerBs and I'll purchase the most expensive membership.
Promise. Bad times don't need to be even worse than they are. E5 Yaz will hold me to it.
Promise. Bad times don't need to be even worse than they are. E5 Yaz will hold me to it.
KillerBs said:
They are consistently a top 5 payroll team. How does that qualify as "cheap SOBs?" Here's how they've ranked on opening day going back a decade. 4th, 4th, 3rd, 3rd, 2nd, 4th, 4th, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd.
patinorange said:
This is why people think we, as a fanbase, are spoiled. Their approach hasn't led to being a playoff team every year, but they've won three titles in the last decade. I'll take that over any other team in the sport, shitty seasons and all. Shit happens, but the payoffs have been more than worth it. The only model that's proven to put a team in the playoffs every season has been absurdly overpaying for talent and even that approach has been chopped down to size in the new CBA. The Yankees are paying for their approach now, and the Dodgers are in the middle of their cash flow run, but eventually they'll fall down hard.
8slim said:
Henry is a hedge funds guy. He's constantly looking for a way to get and edge on the competition and he's happy to take risks when he thinks he's found one. Sometimes those risks will blow up. We're seeing that now. We saw it in 2012. That's the downside of having an ownership group led by someone like him. But again, three titles in the last decade more than makes up for the down seasons (2006, 2010, 2012 and 2014). If they remain one of the worst teams in the majors in 2015, it'll grow a little more difficult to stay so optimistic, but so far they haven't been a shitty team for more than one season in a row. 2011's club barely missed the playoffs. The collapse was epic and painful as hell, but they were literally in the hunt for a playoff spot until the last out of a season. That's not a shitty team.
This is nothing like the Pedro situation though, Pedro was fading fast and by that point not in the class Lester is right now. Most people were onboard with it IIRC.
With Lester, they're seemingly willing to go into 2015 without an ace just so they aren't paying him #1 starter money in 2019-2020 when he'll be, what, a #3/#4?
KillerBs said:
Again, they haven't been worse than 4th in payroll since 2003. And even then they were 6th. And yeah, I'm sure they are letting Lester go so they can stick it to those shitty Red Sox fans they clearly hate so much.
Can we start a P&G thread to mock this, or is that verboten now?
No, because Pedro wasnt 30 and enetring into the prime of his career.HriniakPosterChild said:
For the record I felt the same way abot Schilling as well.
Yes, because i thought signing an old and used up third basmen was a bad idea.
And by the way, aces with sub 2.00 playoff ERAs are a helluva harder to replace than third basmen.
There isn't any way they will waste Papi on a shitty team next year. They'll get pitching, Shields, Iwakuma, the Reds might be forced to trade Cueto next year.
I have faith there is some long, and short, term vision. But I agree with this sentiment. They would have another shot next year with Lester, Ortiz, Pedroia, etc. Unless they're adding Hamels, Scherzer, or Lee type, I don't see how they fill out the pitching staff between now and when the kids are really ready, because by that time, Ortiz is retired and Pedroia is past his prime. If they do add. Hamels or Schezer, I don't know how they do it in a more efficient fashion than signing Lester for 5/125 last offseason.Norm Siebern said:
Look I've always been in support of building from within, acquiring cost controlled talent, etc., but there needs to be a balance. At this point, it doesn't look look the Sox will have that balance next year, and yet they absolutely should considering their revenue.
The Henry-is-a-hedge-fund-guy does not translate. To be sure he is, but as another poster pointed out, Henry has been emphatic about being OUT of the baseball end of thing. That stuff was done by Larry and Theo, then Theo, now Larry and Ben.
If this no-big-money for guys > 30 is real, and if it emanated from Henry, that's revolutionary. And it is very dangerous because John Henry is self admittedly not qualified to run baseball ops.
If this no-big-money for guys > 30 is real, and if it emanated from Henry, that's revolutionary. And it is very dangerous because John Henry is self admittedly not qualified to run baseball ops.
Perfect. No need to make a move tonight.
Let this thing simmer a little longer, make sure one of these teams slip up and make the move you're waiting for. No need to rush, you've already let it be known that Lester is on the hill for Friday night and you'll take your first round pick if need be.
Let this thing simmer a little longer, make sure one of these teams slip up and make the move you're waiting for. No need to rush, you've already let it be known that Lester is on the hill for Friday night and you'll take your first round pick if need be.
Jon Lester is not entering the prime of his career. He'll be 31 next year. I love him, but it's hard to think of this season as anything other than a outlier. He's giving up more flyballs than at any other point in his career, yet his HR/FB rate is at a career low. He's good but not this good.Norm Siebern said:
I'd prefer that the Sox re-sign Lester, but it would be crazy to expect the age 31-36 Jon Lester to be anything other than the 3.60 ERA pitcher he's been over the full length of his career.
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