Tracking the rookie QBs

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 2, 2006
19,939
Philadelphia
I think we've started to see the turn for Lawrence and Mac who are breaking out, Wilson before the injury was not. Fields is a few games behind, but I'm not hopeful.. he has a terrible coach/coordinator and he just doesn't look ready. Lance is back to the bench, so who knows.
That sounds about right.

IMO, both Fields and Wilson have looked bad but are in terrible situations so its premature to make very strong judgments. In both cases, there just seems to be this deadly combination of poor offensive line play, QBs understandably struggling to process at NFL speeds, and coaches who aren't modifying the offense enough to help them. Both those guys should really be sitting and learning like Lance. Wilson's injury might actually be a bit of a blessing in disguise.
 

Big McCorkle

Member
SoSH Member
May 9, 2021
228
Ja'Marr Chase will win that award going away.

35 catches, 754 yards, 6 TD's through 7 games.
I think if Mac keeps up his level of play from the last two weeks, or better yet improves upon it, and the production follows, he'll definitely be competitive with Chase if for no reason other than the virtue of the fact that he's a QB.

But yeah, right now Chase is running away with it. Still ten games to go in the season, though.
 

Jimbodandy

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
6,253
around the way
That sounds about right.

IMO, both Fields and Wilson have looked bad but are in terrible situations so its premature to make very strong judgments. In both cases, there just seems to be this deadly combination of poor offensive line play, QBs understandably struggling to process at NFL speeds, and coaches who aren't modifying the offense enough to help them. Both those guys should really be sitting and learning like Lance. Wilson's injury might actually be a bit of a blessing in disguise.
It sounds like oversimplification, but is anyone surprised that Fields and Wilson are failing on those two teams. They don't have a chance.

No idea whether either guy is successful down the road, but those two orgs are garbage at offense since forever. Fields might have a better chance of developing into a decent linebacker or tight end in Chicago. They still think that it's 1950 there.
 

GB5

lurker
Aug 26, 2013
169
Chase is going to win the award comfortably. He is putting up Randy Moss numbers if he stays on track. Pitts may be second, but he just picked the wrong year. If he finishes the season anywhere close to the last tow weeks, he will have the best rookie season of any tight end ever..which I guess comes with his draft position. Mac has been really really good, and again if he stays with the level he is at, it will be a very successful first year. I do think people are going to thumb their noses, incorrectly, I may add, and label him a system qb, short thrower, noodle arm, peashooter.
 

johnmd20

mad dog
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 30, 2003
51,850
New York City
I think if Mac keeps up his level of play from the last two weeks, or better yet improves upon it, and the production follows, he'll definitely be competitive with Chase if for no reason other than the virtue of the fact that he's a QB.

But yeah, right now Chase is running away with it. Still ten games to go in the season, though.
If Chase keeps up 60% of what he's already doing, he will win this easily. Chase is really flashy and has had the best start to a career in the history of the NFL. When you're the best player in history after a 7 game sample, the award is yours to lose.
 

DourDoerr

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Oct 15, 2004
2,566
Berkeley, CA
What's considered the best pure rookie season (first professional season overall) ever for an NFL qb? I thought it might be Dan Marino, but he only started 9 games in 1983.
 

Euclis20

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2004
4,471
Imaginationland
RG3, and I don't think it's particularly close. His passing stats were excellent (20 TDs, 65% completion, led the league in lowest interception rate AND led the league in yards per attempt), as were his rushing numbers (815 yards and 7 TDs). Not only that, he actually led his team to a 9-6 record and the playoffs. On the last point, he took over for a team that had won 4, 6 and 5 games the previous 3 years, making the improvement particularly noteworthy.

It's really a shame that that was pretty much it for him.
 
Last edited:

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 2, 2006
19,939
Philadelphia
Russell Wilson by a whisker over RGIII.

Their regular season numbers are close to a dead heat. RGIII threw five fewer picks and was more productive as a rusher. But he also fumbled six more times and threw fewer TD passes. RGIII is ahead by a bit in ANY/A, Russ is ahead slightly in QBR if you want to look at those kind of aggregate metrics.

Its close enough that post-season performance seems like a reasonable tiebreaker and its pretty insane that they actually went head-to-head. Its totally unfair in a sense because RGIII shouldn't have been playing in that game but Russ did outperform him (prior to the injury) and then went on to have a great game against Atlanta only to be let down by his defense.
 

SMU_Sox

queer eye for the next pats guy
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2009
7,624
Dallas
In terms of brilliant rookie seasons, Justin Jefferson’s rookie year was out of this world. He set the record for receiving yards: 1,400 and with 7 TDs (tied for 21st best in 2020). 88 receptions (15th best in 2020) so 15.9 yards per reception (9th best in 2020).
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
23,632
Best stats is probably Dak, best team performance is the Rapist. Went 13-0, and actually the stats were better than I thought given the era. 7th in ANY/A, 5th in CMP%, 7th in TD%, threw too many picks, but otherwise pretty good.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 2, 2006
19,939
Philadelphia
Best stats is probably Dak, best team performance is the Rapist. Went 13-0, and actually the stats were better than I thought given the era. 7th in ANY/A, 5th in CMP%, 7th in TD%, threw too many picks, but otherwise pretty good.
Yup. Once you adjust for passing era, that was a monster rookie year.

One thread that runs through all these examples of really high efficiency rookie QBs is having a strong running game and therefore not having to throw the ball very often. Ben only averaged about 21 attempts per game, Russ around 24, RGIII 26, Dak was around 28. The 2004 Steelers and 2012 Seahawks were last in the league in passing attempts, the 2012 WFT were 30th, and the 2014 Cowboys were 31st.
 
Last edited:

DourDoerr

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Oct 15, 2004
2,566
Berkeley, CA
Yup. Once you adjust for passing era, that was a monster rookie year.

One thread that runs through all these examples of really high efficiency rookie QBs is having a strong running game and therefore not having to throw the ball very often. Ben only averaged about 21 attempts per game, Russ around 24, RGIII 26, Dak was around 28. The 2004 Steelers and 2012 Seahawks were last in the league in passing attempts, the 2012 WFT were 30th, and the 2014 Cowboys were 31st.
That's an interesting thread and bodes well for Mac if they can build on last week. Looking at all the qb's mentioned, Mac projects well with them, if at least a tier below. Recency bias probably, but mention of The Rapist caused me to look up Watson's stats and they're pretty incredible. In only 6 starts he had 19 td's (against 8 int) along with 269 yards rushing in 36 carries. Watson, RGIII, and BR were in their age 22 seasons, so all the more impressive.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
46,178
Updated totals:

Jones: 192/282, 68.1%, 1997 yards, 9/6 TD/INT, 90.1 rating

Lawrence: 161/270, 59.6%, 1703 yards, 8/9 TD/INT, 74.0 rating (also rushed for 132 yards, 2 TDs)

Wilson: 104/181, 57.3%, 1168 yards, 4/9 TD/INT, 63.5 rating

Fields: 94/158, 59.5%, 991 yards, 3/7 TD/INT, 65.7 rating (also rushed for 243 yards, 2 TDs)

Lance: 25/48, 52.1%, 354 yards, 3/1 TD/INT, 88.4 rating (also rushed for 133 yards, 1 TD)

Mills: 140/209, 67.0%, 1357 yards, 7/8 TD/INT, 80.2 rating
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
46,178
Updated totals:

Jones: 204/300, 68.0%, 2135 yards, 10/7 TD/INT, 89.8 rating

Lawrence: 176/296, 59.5%, 1821 yards, 8/9 TD/INT, 73.6 rating (also rushed for 136 yards, 2 TDs)

Wilson: 104/181, 57.3%, 1168 yards, 4/9 TD/INT, 63.5 rating

Fields: 111/187, 59.5%, 1282 yards, 4/8 TD/INT, 69.4 rating (also rushed for 288 yards, 2 TDs)

Lance: 25/48, 52.1%, 354 yards, 3/1 TD/INT, 88.4 rating (also rushed for 133 yards, 1 TD)

Mills: 140/209, 67.0%, 1357 yards, 7/8 TD/INT, 80.2 rating
 

SMU_Sox

queer eye for the next pats guy
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2009
7,624
Dallas
Fields is still putting it together but I came away impressed last night. He had some one look and runs but he also hung tough and made some great throws. That was a good defense too and he should have put 31 points up against them including leading a go ahead TD drive. IMO he was the best rookie QB this week.
 

Euclis20

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2004
4,471
Imaginationland
View: https://twitter.com/ezlazar/status/1456464949484662800?s=20

Evan Lazar: Imagine if Jarrett Stidham came off the bench and looked better even for a game or two than Mac Jones. That's how the #Jets feel right now.
I agree, but also it's not he "looked better", it is he looked significantly better and that is when the voices in your head start to get louder.
The analogy really only works if Mac had been playing poorly. He's at least met expectations with his performance so far this year, while the kindest thing we could say about Wilson is that he's young.
 

Strike4

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
2,053
Portland, Maine
The analogy really only works if Mac had been playing poorly. He's at least met expectations with his performance so far this year, while the kindest thing we could say about Wilson is that he's young.
I caught part of some radio show on Sunday evening and the host had a NY journalist on. Host was trying to spin the narrative that now White is the guy the Jets should go with and they need to cut their losses on Wilson. The journalist, who has sources all over the Jets organization, was clear that Wilson is still the guy and there's no sense within the Jets org that anything has changed except they have credible options while Wilson heals.
 

luckiestman

Son of the Harpy
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
23,229
I caught part of some radio show on Sunday evening and the host had a NY journalist on. Host was trying to spin the narrative that now White is the guy the Jets should go with and they need to cut their losses on Wilson. The journalist, who has sources all over the Jets organization, was clear that Wilson is still the guy and there's no sense within the Jets org that anything has changed except they have credible options while Wilson heals.

They like Wilson, shit, I like Wilson. This kids does some very impressive things with the ball and he is a good athlete. The game is too fast for him right now. Whereas the game seems very slow for Mike White. White has a higher floor for sure but Zach has a higher upside. Having two QBs you like is a lot better problem than having 0. White could also be one of these backups that’s good until there is tape on him. We have seen that before. Too much uncertainty to make any proclamations.
 

rodderick

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 24, 2009
8,773
Belo Horizonte - Brazil
I think Zach Wilson has looked unplayable and I wouldn't be surprised if the Jets' offensive players who are looking to put numbers on the stat sheet and some good film out there are hoping White is the starter going forward. There's something to be said for taking your lumps, but what I've seen from Zach Wilson is basically non-competitive at this point. If he were performing to the level of Justin Fields I'd say put him back in.

And it's not just Mike White, when Johnson comes in and looks competent, what are we doing? Need Flacco to jump in and throw for 300 yards as well to convince you the kid isn't ready?
 

luckiestman

Son of the Harpy
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
23,229
I think Zach Wilson has looked unplayable and I wouldn't be surprised if the Jets' offensive players who are looking to put numbers on the stat sheet and some good film out there are hoping White is the starter going forward. There's something to be said for taking your lumps, but what I've seen from Zach Wilson is basically non-competitive at this point. If he were performing to the level of Justin Fields I'd say put him back in.

He has looked good in some games and really bad in other games and well, in the same games he has looked both really good and really bad. There are guys in this league that will play for years and not make throws like Zach made in the Titans game.

What you are saying about the other players is correct, I think White threw to ten guys against the Bengals. He got everyone involved. I don’t mind if Zach sits for a while. He can’t get his protections right yet it seems like.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
46,178
Updated totals (only Jones and Lawrence played).

Jones: 223/323, 69.0%, 2333 yards, 13/7 TD/INT, 94.1 rating

Lawrence: 192/331, 58.0%, 1983 yards, 8/9 TD/INT, 72.1 rating (also rushed for 169 yards, 2 TDs)

Wilson: 104/181, 57.3%, 1168 yards, 4/9 TD/INT, 63.5 rating

Fields: 111/187, 59.5%, 1282 yards, 4/8 TD/INT, 69.4 rating (also rushed for 288 yards, 2 TDs)

Lance: 25/48, 52.1%, 354 yards, 3/1 TD/INT, 88.4 rating (also rushed for 133 yards, 1 TD)

Mills: 140/209, 67.0%, 1357 yards, 7/8 TD/INT, 80.2 rating
 

Petagine in a Bottle

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 13, 2021
2,303
Just as the schedule has gotten more difficult, Mac has more than answered the call and stepped up to the challenge. Could not be more encouraged by his or the teams play over the last few weeks. Jets, at least have to be kicking themselves.
 

Time to Mo Vaughn

RIP Dernell
SoSH Member
Mar 24, 2008
5,537
Just as the schedule has gotten more difficult, Mac has more than answered the call and stepped up to the challenge. Could not be more encouraged by his or the teams play over the last few weeks. Jets, at least have to be kicking themselves.
Honest question:
What do you think Mac's stats would look like if he had started every game so far for the Jets?
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
14,838
Honest question:
What do you think Mac's stats would look like if he had started every game so far for the Jets?
That's a great question. It's interesting how coaching and coaching philosophy plays into these things. I imagine Mac's stats would look a lot worse. But it's not clear to me that someone like Zach Wilson would be doing as well HERE as Mac has, because Wilson seems to me to be a guy who isn't ok with taking it slow and taking what the defense gives him. He seems like he just needs to air it out, and that's not what BB wanted in a rookie QB.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
46,178
Honest question:
What do you think Mac's stats would look like if he had started every game so far for the Jets?
Eh. That's not really the right way to look at it. It's like asking if Brady was drafted by another team and never got a shot...I mean, he's still the GOAT because of this ACTUAL situation.

Mac is producing NOW. In real life. How he would do in another situation doesn't matter.
 

luckiestman

Son of the Harpy
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
23,229
Eh. That's not really the right way to look at it. It's like asking if Brady was drafted by another team and never got a shot...I mean, he's still the GOAT because of this ACTUAL situation.

Mac is producing NOW. In real life. How he would do in another situation doesn't matter.

It matters when someone makes the claim that other teams should have regret. It doesn't matter when you are rating what has happened.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 2, 2006
19,939
Philadelphia
If the 49ers lose tonight, I wonder whether Shanahan just starts Lance the rest of the way.

Its hard because the NFC is so polarized between a few very good and a lot of not very good teams that even at 3-6 you can see a path to the #6 or #7 seed. But at some point you have to start thinking about the longer term and its not like Jimmy is lighting the world on fire right now anyway.

I hope it happens as I'd be very curious to see how Lance does when given consistent reps over a significant stretch.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
46,178
It matters when someone makes the claim that other teams should have regret. It doesn't matter when you are rating what has happened.
I guess. But Jones was never really in play to be the #2 pick by anyone that was prognosticating these things. Maybe he should have been, but that's a different thing.
 

Time to Mo Vaughn

RIP Dernell
SoSH Member
Mar 24, 2008
5,537
That's a great question. It's interesting how coaching and coaching philosophy plays into these things. I imagine Mac's stats would look a lot worse. But it's not clear to me that someone like Zach Wilson would be doing as well HERE as Mac has, because Wilson seems to me to be a guy who isn't ok with taking it slow and taking what the defense gives him. He seems like he just needs to air it out, and that's not what BB wanted in a rookie QB.
Or with different coaching, he'd use his superior raw talent and athletic ability and be performing even better because of Bill and Josh or he'd be another failed gunslinger.

Matt Cassel and Garoppolo looked best playing for the Pats (though in smaller sample sizes in most cases)

Eh. That's not really the right way to look at it. It's like asking if Brady was drafted by another team and never got a shot...I mean, he's still the GOAT because of this ACTUAL situation.

Mac is producing NOW. In real life. How he would do in another situation doesn't matter.
Luckiest Man has this right. I wanted to know what Petagine thought they should regret. Taking Fields over Jones? Not trading down to get a ton more capital and then taking Jones (before the Pats?)?

It matters when someone makes the claim that other teams should have regret. It doesn't matter when you are rating what has happened.
I have tried to find this quote in the past and am not sure this is the original one, but it's close enough. I always go down to Parcells picking between Mirer and Bledsoe and believe either option would have been successful under himself.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1997-01-19-9701190094-story.html

"The pluses for Mirer were that this guy played at a big school under heavy scrutiny, he's mobile, he's been in big games under high pressure," Parcells said. "You don't get much more pressure than playing at Notre Dame at that position. I liked him personally. I think he's a good kid. We rated him very high. It wasn't about that. Drew was young and you just had to look at the potential upside.

"I think if we had drafted Mirer, I feel like he would have come here and been successful, I really do. I think we would have played a little different style than we're playing now, but I think he could have been successful."
Quarterbacks taken high in the draft are almost by definition (with some rare exceptions) joining the worst teams and worst situations in the league. I think of the same thing often in prospect development in baseball. What would happen with a slightly different minor league coach or organizational philosophy?
 

DourDoerr

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Oct 15, 2004
2,566
Berkeley, CA
Honest question:
What do you think Mac's stats would look like if he had started every game so far for the Jets?
Similar to Zach Wilson's with a reduction in AYA? He'd be on the road to ruin. He'd be starting from moment 1 and the deficits on the line, RB's and receiving talent would insure beatdowns along with eroded confidence from the poor returns game after game. Unable to escape pressure and without a transcendent arm to rescue him from tight coverage downfield, he'd be sacked and intercepted at an unsustainable rate. Eventually, doubts from his teammates about his abilities would seep in. His self-confidence and work ethic might be his best chance to pull out of a spiral, but that might have to wait until the off-season recovery.

Zach Wilson on the Pats would be stapled to Stidham's spot on the bench. If he showed something, he might take the field in Year 2 with a short leash. But Stidham's route - minus the injuries - might be the way it would go for Wilson if he'd prove unable to process quickly and show patience in his reads. Huge test of Josh's abilities as a QB whisperer.
 
Last edited:

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
13,623
Rick Mirer was an interesting case study. There were rumors that the 49'ers offered Parcells multiple draft picks to move up to the #1 slot so they could pick Mirer. Seattle would have naturally picked Bledsoe, the local favorite.

Mirer had a better rookie season than Bledsoe, and Tom Flores wasn't exactly a bad coach (2 Super Bowl victories with the Raiders). But Mirer was sacked a league leading 47 times. And then after an OK if unspectacular sophomore season, he turned into a pick machine. Of course, his line did him no favors his 3rd season (42 sacks). He ended up starting for Parcells with the 1999 Jets after Vinny Testaverde popped his Achilles, but was terrible as a team that was in the AFCCG the prior season fell to 8-8, leading indirectly to the departure of their defensive coordinator to the Patriots.
 

amarshal2

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 25, 2005
4,877
So what you're saying is that by picking Drew Bledsoe, Parcellls gave us Belichick and Brady? Interesting...
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 2, 2006
19,939
Philadelphia
I have tried to find this quote in the past and am not sure this is the original one, but it's close enough. I always go down to Parcells picking between Mirer and Bledsoe and believe either option would have been successful under himself.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1997-01-19-9701190094-story.html

Quarterbacks taken high in the draft are almost by definition (with some rare exceptions) joining the worst teams and worst situations in the league. I think of the same thing often in prospect development in baseball. What would happen with a slightly different minor league coach or organizational philosophy?
Context is definitely huge for QB development but I think this quote really tells you more about Bill Parcells' over-inflated ego than anything.

Seattle was a bad team but it wasn't a terrible situation by any means. Tom Flores had been a very successful coach. Their O line struggled but they had some weapons, including Chris Warren, who was one of the best RBs in the league at a time when the game tilted toward the run.

The much more plausible take is that Rick Mirer was a bad quarterback. After Seattle, four other organizations gave him a look during his career and each one got rid of him after a single year.

Most notably of all, Mirer actually played for Parcells in 1999 with the Jets and he stunk up the joint, quickly losing his job to Ray Lucas.
 

djbayko

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
17,429
Los Angeles, CA
Just as the schedule has gotten more difficult, Mac has more than answered the call and stepped up to the challenge. Could not be more encouraged by his or the teams play over the last few weeks. Jets, at least have to be kicking themselves.
It’s the 49ers who are probably kicking themselves. You know, since they were totally going to pick Mac Jones and then let public ridicule of the value they gave up to trade up to #3 talk them out of it.
 

BigJimEd

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 4, 2002
3,331
Rick Mirer was an interesting case study. There were rumors that the 49'ers offered Parcells multiple draft picks to move up to the #1 slot so they could pick Mirer. Seattle would have naturally picked Bledsoe, the local favorite.

Mirer had a better rookie season than Bledsoe, and Tom Flores wasn't exactly a bad coach (2 Super Bowl victories with the Raiders). But Mirer was sacked a league leading 47 times. And then after an OK if unspectacular sophomore season, he turned into a pick machine. Of course, his line did him no favors his 3rd season (42 sacks). He ended up starting for Parcells with the 1999 Jets after Vinny Testaverde popped his Achilles, but was terrible as a team that was in the AFCCG the prior season fell to 8-8, leading indirectly to the departure of their defensive coordinator to the Patriots.
Yes, Mirer was Offensive Rookie of the year and his first couple seasons weren't that much different than Bledsoe. Seattle was able to get a fairly high first round pick for him as well.
 

Van Everyman

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2009
21,317
Newton
Interesting discussion.

Someday, I’d love to know if Shanahan really was high on Mac initially before moving to Lance and if so, why. I mean, there was just a ton of buzz.

It still seems crazy to me that Mac slid all the way to 15 without BB having to do anything more than put up a 7-9 season.

Edit: @djbayko got there first I see.
 

Steve Dillard

wishes drew noticed him instead of sweet & sour
SoSH Member
Oct 7, 2003
5,308
I favored Fields, and would have killed BB if it hadn't worked out. Looks like in this one instance, he was right.;)
 

Pegleg

lurker
Jul 15, 2005
36
Sayre, PA
I watched Jones in College and saw him lobbing soft passes to the hands of receivers in tight spots. I thought "he's doing it just like Brady." Now he's starting to throw longer, again like Brady. He was my #1 choice at QB. I was ecstatic when we got him.
 

scott bankheadcase

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 1, 2006
1,726
hoboken
It’s the 49ers who are probably kicking themselves. You know, since they were totally going to pick Mac Jones and then let public ridicule of the value they gave up to trade up to #3 talk them out of it.
We'll see. Lance has not looked bad at all in his limited time. Even his start against a fully healthy Arizona was good for a 1st career start. He moved the ball consistently and just some 50/50 plays went the wrong way in the red zone a couple times.

You can certainly question the niners' decisions on keeping jimmy g and not getting Lance reps. But, I don't think we have any real data on whether they should have gone with Mac above him yet.

I also don't believe that Shanahan/Lynch had their minds changed by public ridicule. They haven't shown that in any other area over the last 5 years. I think they thought Lance's skillset has a higher ceiling than Jones. And they still might be right.

If they lose tonight, I bet Lance is the starter for the rest of the season and we'll see.
 

djbayko

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
17,429
Los Angeles, CA
We'll see. Lance has not looked bad at all in his limited time. Even his start against a fully healthy Arizona was good for a 1st career start. He moved the ball consistently and just some 50/50 plays went the wrong way in the red zone a couple times.

You can certainly question the niners' decisions on keeping jimmy g and not getting Lance reps. But, I don't think we have any real data on whether they should have gone with Mac above him yet.

I also don't believe that Shanahan/Lynch had their minds changed by public ridicule. They haven't shown that in any other area over the last 5 years. I think they thought Lance's skillset has a higher ceiling than Jones. And they still might be right.

If they lose tonight, I bet Lance is the starter for the rest of the season and we'll see.
My characterization may have been a bit hyperbolic. But there was definitely reporting near the beginning of this season about how the public ridicule was eye opening to them and caused them to take a step back and reconsider all of their options, which led to them falling for Lance.
 

ManicCompression

Member
SoSH Member
May 14, 2015
507
My characterization may have been a bit hyperbolic. But there was definitely reporting near the beginning of this season about how the public ridicule was eye opening to them and caused them to take a step back and reconsider all of their options, which led to them falling for Lance.
The public would still have been right to ridicule them. They would've traded 3 first rounders and a third for a guy who was available at 15.

That trade is still so insanely ridiculous. Trey Lance would have to be Andrew Luck out of the gate to be worth that much draft capital vs. Fields and Jones.