Toucher and Hardy: The new 98.5 morning show

[Granite Sox]

Fred had 15 years of built-in ratings advantages on a 24-hour sports talk station with established local and national media guests and broadcast rights to the NFL, NBA, and NHL. Apples and coconuts.

It proved that Rich was crazy to try and compete as a singular host on a sports talk show, but doesn’t provide any comparison on the relative talents of the two. As has been debated ad nauseam, they brought different strengths and weaknesses to the partnership.

 

[mairish06]

Fred had 15 years of built-in ratings advantages on a 24-hour sports talk station with established local and national media guests and broadcast rights to the NFL, NBA, and NHL. Apples and coconuts.

It proved that Rich was crazy to try and compete as a singular host on a sports talk show, but doesn’t provide any comparison on the relative talents of the two. As has been debated ad nauseam, they brought different strengths and weaknesses to the partnership.

I'm not saying that Fred is some big star, I just think he'd do better than Rich did. Rich just isn't a big talent and he alienated WZLX's audience when he came over. He tried to talk sports and he's not very good at sports talk to begin with. He should've been only playing music and doing his morning zoo bits from the start. There are very few big talents in the Boston media. Outside of Felger, I'm not sure anyone else at 98.5 would be able to pull in great ratings if they went out on their own.

 

[Rusty13]

A 21.7 for T&H in the latest book. I didn't really listen to T&R and I don't really listen to T&H, but I thinks this proves that Fred was the true alpha of T&R and that Rich is a lightweight. There's no way that Fred would do as poorly as Rich did if he went off on his own.

https://x.com/bostonradio/status/1872401748016443611

You're probably ultimately right. But I would also note, per that tweet from @bostonradio, that Rich's ratings looked like they were improving a bit. I think I read that he got a 5.1 in the last week (which obviously has to be taken with a grain of salt for such a small sample size). They may have cut bait too soon. I still doubt Rich ends up on the local airwaves ever again. He would be better served going into another market or changing things up career wise a bit.

EDIT. It was in Chad Finn's piece that I read about that last week:

Shertenlieb’s show had been making some progress. In its final week on the air, it had a 5.1 share, good for fifth place among morning programs in the men 25-54 demo.

https://www.boston.com/sports/media/2024/12/26/98-5-the-sports-hub-dominates-fall-nielsen-audio-ratings/

 

[NewInTown]

You're probably ultimately right. But I would also note, per that tweet from @bostonradio, that Rich's ratings looked like they were improving a bit. I think I read that he got a 5.1 in the last week (which obviously has to be taken with a grain of salt for such a small sample size). They may have cut bait too soon. I still doubt Rich ends up on the local airwaves ever again. He would be better served going into another market or changing things up career wise a bit.

EDIT. It was in Chad Finn's piece that I read about that last week:



https://www.boston.com/sports/media/2024/12/26/98-5-the-sports-hub-dominates-fall-nielsen-audio-ratings/

Yeah the ratings started improving when they switched to more music and less rich per hour...

 

[Hal Waffid]

I'm not saying that Fred is some big star, I just think he'd do better than Rich did. Rich just isn't a big talent and he alienated WZLX's audience when he came over. He tried to talk sports and he's not very good at sports talk to begin with. He should've been only playing music and doing his morning zoo bits from the start. There are very few big talents in the Boston media. Outside of Felger, I'm not sure anyone else at 98.5 would be able to pull in great ratings if they went out on their own.

Fred would likely do better just on account of having hosted a show on his own before, but I believe if Fred were transplanted to a different station floating an entirely new format without a full time cohost he would have similar problems finding an audience. I definitely don't think the ZLX audience would go for today's bitterer, meaner Fred. You might as well put Minihane on there.

Speaking for myself, I'm team Rich but that ZLX show was so bad I posted a bulleted list of why I stopped listening over in the other thread. I'd give any new Rich show another shot but he wouldn't have nearly as long a grace period before I switched back over to Bill Simmons or some other bland, non-annoying alternative.

 

[ramfan]

Fred's really going to be upset if the Patriots get the first pick

 

[Rusty13]

Fred's really going to be upset if the Patriots get the first pick

He is SO dug in on the take how it would be “bad” for the Pats to tank and get the first pick in the draft that I’m more convinced than ever it’s a no brainer decision for the Pats to do.

This is also when the show becomes almost unlistenable. Neither Hardy nor Wallach really bother to try and challenge these takes. They timidly just nod their heads. Brutal radio.

 

[Trapaholic]

Now I hope that Joe Milton plays on Sunday just to drive Fred crazy. When he got drafted, Fred spent multiple segments going off on how he sucked and that fans will see him throw the ball 85 yards and rally for him to compete for a role on the team. He was yelling about how much Milton sucked at football and how fans were going to convince themselves that he needs to compete with Maye for actual snaps.

That was really annoying. I watch a decent amount of college football for betting purposes, and I knew Milton could throw the ball a mile but it never translated. I don't think any Pats fan thought about Joe Milton as much as Fred did. He would get all worked up and neither Hardy or Wallach had any thoughts about it, rightfully. It was like they were just letting Fred get it out of his system so that they didn't have to talk about it ever again.

 

[Rusty13]

Now I hope that Joe Milton plays on Sunday just to drive Fred crazy. When he got drafted, Fred spent multiple segments going off on how he sucked and that fans will see him throw the ball 85 yards and rally for him to compete for a role on the team. He was yelling about how much Milton sucked at football and how fans were going to convince themselves that he needs to compete with Maye for actual snaps.

That was really annoying. I watch a decent amount of college football for betting purposes, and I knew Milton could throw the ball a mile but it never translated. I don't think any Pats fan thought about Joe Milton as much as Fred did. He would get all worked up and neither Hardy or Wallach had any thoughts about it, rightfully. It was like they were just letting Fred get it out of his system so that they didn't have to talk about it ever again.

Yup. That's basically what it's been like the past few days while he's been on this first pick of the draft take. And he definitely mumbled something about how much Milton will suck if he plays under his breath today when Breer was on. So he hasn't given up on that one!

 

[NDame616]

Now I hope that Joe Milton plays on Sunday just to drive Fred crazy. When he got drafted, Fred spent multiple segments going off on how he sucked and that fans will see him throw the ball 85 yards and rally for him to compete for a role on the team. He was yelling about how much Milton sucked at football and how fans were going to convince themselves that he needs to compete with Maye for actual snaps.

That was really annoying. I watch a decent amount of college football for betting purposes, and I knew Milton could throw the ball a mile but it never translated. I don't think any Pats fan thought about Joe Milton as much as Fred did. He would get all worked up and neither Hardy or Wallach had any thoughts about it, rightfully. It was like they were just letting Fred get it out of his system so that they didn't have to talk about it ever again.

I don't know. His take of "he's a terrible QB who has no chance at ever being an NFL QB" isn't exactly disproven after being on the practice squad of the worst team in the league for 17 weeks and then playing garbage time in a game 18, a game we need to lose.

 

[NortheasternPJ]

He is SO dug in on the take how it would be “bad” for the Pats to tank and get the first pick in the draft that I’m more convinced than ever it’s a no brainer decision for the Pats to do.

This is also when the show becomes almost unlistenable. Neither Hardy nor Wallach really bother to try and challenge these takes. They timidly just nod their heads. Brutal radio.

It's such a dumb argument by him and it's been extremely annoying. I don't want Drake Maye to play because there's no point, I don't want him hurt and it'd be interesting to see what Milton can do. Is he a QB2 or do the Pats need someone else?

 

[dlauderdale]

Ben Volin and a couple others (if memory serves) were saying Maye was playing better than Maye in the summer.

 

[Over Guapo Grande]

Ben Volin and a couple others (if memory serves) were saying Maye was playing better than Maye in the summer.

That is a very Volin thing to write.

 

[snowmanny]

I don't know. His take of "he's a terrible QB who has no chance at ever being an NFL QB" isn't exactly disproven after being on the practice squad of the worst team in the league for 17 weeks and then playing garbage time in a game 18, a game we need to lose.

It’s not a “take,” in the sense that a take is usually a different point of view on a subject of general interest. Nobody cares about Joe Milton. I myself want to see him play this week because I assume he sucks.

 

[Granite Sox]

Fred’s a Michigan State fan. He hates Michigan. Milton flopped at Michigan (and didn’t do much better at Tennessee), ergo Fred thinks he’s horrible. It’s not much more sophisticated than that.

He also significantly misrepresented Perry’s take about maybe trying to gin up a market for Milton. The point for all these fringe NFL players is to get game time on tape, in hopes of drawing interest from other teams in addition to their own. Whether or not the playing time is considered “meaningful“ by the average fan, the players need to show well to stay in the league.

In the case of Milton and the Patriots, if Wolf sticks to the Packer Way and drafts a QB each year, maybe some team suffers a QB injury next summer and Milton can fetch a 6th or 7th round pick. That would be fine for the Pats, given that he’s not their QB of the future. No need for Fred to get so pissy about it; Fred gonna Fred.

 

[Rusty13]

Fred’s a Michigan State fan. He hates Michigan. Milton flopped at Michigan (and didn’t do much better at Tennessee), ergo Fred thinks he’s horrible. It’s not much more sophisticated than that.

He also significantly misrepresented Perry’s take about maybe trying to gin up a market for Milton. The point for all these fringe NFL players is to get game time on tape, in hopes of drawing interest from other teams in addition to their own. Whether or not the playing time is considered “meaningful“ by the average fan, the players need to show well to stay in the league.

In the case of Milton and the Patriots, if Wolf sticks to the Packer Way and drafts a QB each year, maybe some team suffers a QB injury next summer and Milton can fetch a 6th or 7th round pick. That would be fine for the Pats, given that he’s not their QB of the future. No need for Fred to get so pissy about it; Fred gonna Fred.

Officially looking forward to tomorrow’s show!

 

[sezwho]

Officially looking forward to tomorrow’s show!

Yeah, I’m dying to know how he contorts himself around the fact Milton can throw.

I’m guessing he blames the shitty Bills D

 

[dirtynine]

I have a feeling they won’t be talking much Milton tomorrow.

 

[NewInTown]

I loved that Fred opened the show by saying how funny it was that Milton crushed it after he ripped him for so long

 

[NortheasternPJ]

I loved that Fred opened the show by saying how funny it was that Milton crushed it after he ripped him for so long

Part of why Fred can be awesome, he basically fell on the sword and was waiting for it until Mayo was fired and took the heat off.

 

[Rusty13]

Part of why Fred can be awesome, he basically fell on the sword and was waiting for it until Mayo was fired and took the heat off.

He did indeed seem to back off his original comments and admitted it was mostly concern trolling. So I definitely have to give him credit for that, and it was funny.

 

[NorthShoreBeefin]

It’s been about a year since the launch of T&H, and unlike the Patriots, the show has shown a steady trajectory of improvement. Things really kicked into another gear when Adam 12 joined the team. Callahan as a weekly guest has been a great addition—especially with 2 Stats, 1 Lie (the theme songs are awesome). Forsberg has been good too, even though the Celtics haven’t been a main focus.

I think the first year of the show has been light years better compared to the last few years of T&R.

 

[dirtynine]

I still miss Rich’s comic sensibility and timing - even down to the sound drops. Hardy makes the show a far better sports talk show. They are frequently funny individually, but the chemistry seems rarely at T&R level when I listen. That said, I really only tune in for guest segments (Breer, Callahan, Dave Richard)*. So maybe I’m missing it in some of the BSing they do during in hour 1.

*smart of the show to extend more guests to full hour-long segments. I end up listening to full hours instead of 15 minutes.

 

[onthereg527]

This week Fred is driving home the idea that potentially hiring Vrabel would be a mistake. He keeps saying it slightly tongue in cheek, saying he'd love someone to correct him and tell him why Vrabel would be a good hire. I think he's being slightly facetious here, everyone can see the appeal with Vrabel as far as re-establishing the culture they desperately need.

 

[NDame616]

Kendra's segments are a billion times worse without Fred in there....which is saying a lot because her segments are terrible to begin with.

Spent an entire segment reliving her road trip over the past week. Really compelling stuff.

 

[onthereg527]

This isn't anything new but Wallach really sucks. He clearly isn't a big college football fan (which is fine of course) but he talks like he's an expert on it. This morning he was acting all passive-aggressive about Notre Dame winning last night. He says they will 'lose by three touchdowns' to either Ohio State or Texas. Now OSU you can say sure they might win by double digits, the projected line is OSU -7.5. But Texas? That line is only -2.5, essentially a pick em. Did Wallach know that? Of course not. He just regurgitates the same talking points that might have been accurate in the past but certainly are not now.

 

[Trapaholic]

Did anyone catch Breer this morning talking about the Vrabel situation? He can be pretty aloof at times but he is clearly tapped in to the NFL scene nationally. He was pretty critical of the Pats coaching search and the idea that this has been a done deal for a while now. Bert ultimately admits that Vrabel would be the correct hire, but really goes in on the team for how far they have fallen.

 

[Milktoast]

Kendra's segments are a billion times worse without Fred in there....which is saying a lot because her segments are terrible to begin with.

Spent an entire segment reliving her road trip over the past week. Really compelling stuff.

Kendra's misfortunes could have all been avoided if she "just said no" to driving in a snowstorm to buy THC edibles

 

[Recovering Adjunct Prof]

Nick's songs have been entertaining the last few weeks. Not sure about the new opening yet but always look forward to what the new Two Truths and One Lie song will be.

 

[Rusty13]

Did anyone catch Breer this morning talking about the Vrabel situation? He can be pretty aloof at times but he is clearly tapped in to the NFL scene nationally. He was pretty critical of the Pats coaching search and the idea that this has been a done deal for a while now. Bert ultimately admits that Vrabel would be the correct hire, but really goes in on the team for how far they have fallen.

He's done that across multiple platforms all week. I think he's making a mountain of a molehill over this personally.

 

[NorthShoreBeefin]

Nick's songs have been entertaining the last few weeks. Not sure about the new opening yet but always look forward to what the new Two Truths and One Lie song will be.

I was just listening to yesterday’s show and heard the new intro. It caught me off guard since I got used to the old one. Pretty good. I thought the old one was meh…

I hope Callahan comes back during the playoffs. It sounded like this was his last appearance until next season, which means no more Two Stats

 

[NortheasternPJ]

New opening is good, it could be toned down a little since it’s 6am. I usually catch it live and it’s a lot. It’s really well done but a little loud.

 

[NDame616]

Really impressed Fred shoehorned in the Barthtender bit for 5 minutes while trying to discuss the Vrabel signing. Not what I was expecting at 615AM

 

[NDame616]

Happy 50th Freddy T!!

 

[Recovering Adjunct Prof]

Al Cole was a great surprise.