Tottenham Hotspur 2019-20: Jose can you see?

Zososoxfan

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Did that happen during training?!? Holy shit that's a real problem. My assessment of Sissoko's importance to the team is gonna get tested way more than I ever wanted. I look forward to the Dier-Wanyama-Winks-Eriksen MF against Liverpool o_O
 

DJnVa

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Guess that guarantees Lo Celso sticks around
I read yesterday that they are going to pay the fee now, because that makes him a bit cheaper than waiting til summer.

Should the end up in top 4 though, I think the fee goes up to what the summer cost would be.
 

Zososoxfan

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Spurs acquitted themselves better than I expected Saturday. Son and Lo Celso should be running laps for their misses. Tanganga was very good. What say you?
 

coremiller

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I thought Mourinho got his tactics wrong in the first half but fixed it in the second half. He was clearly worried about Liverpool's fullbacks creating so he played wingbacks to mark them. But I don't know why he thought a midfield two of Winks and Eriksen stood any chance of being successful. Neither one is particularly good at covering ground and tackling, and they were outnumbered against Liverpool's midfield three. The predicable result was that Spurs couldn't keep the ball and had no way to get the ball to their forwards besides hopeful long punts.

When they brought on Lo Celso and Lamela for Eriksen and Rose, with both Lamela playing much more centrally than Rose had been, they now had numbers in midfield and could assert some control in that area. Lo Celso is also a much better tackler/defender than Eriksen, Lo Celso spent a season at PSG playing in a deeper central role and his defensive numbers were excellent, while Eriksen has always been much better further forward as a 10 and is only playing deeper due to Spurs' limited squad. Despite his awful miss, I thought Lo Celso was their best player once he came on and he should be starting every game.

As much as the team has struggled this year, the future of the team is clearly an Ndombele/Lo Celso midfield pairing and both of those guys look like stars if/when they can both get settled and stay healthy. They need a 6 and some new fullbacks but with Toby extending his contract, Sanchez's performances improving, Tangagna's promising debut, and the prime-age attacking talent still around (Dele, Son, Kane (sort of?), Lucas, Lamela), there is the makings of a very good team here.

I don't know what they are doing though trying to be strikers in the January window, as has been rumored, unless they really fear for Kane's long-term future. This season is basically shot already, they should be looking to improve the team for the long term, not solving short term issues so they can finish 5th instead of 8th. What they really need are new fullbacks.
 

Kliq

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I thought that tactically it might have Jose's best game in charge. Perhaps it was pure coincidence, but during the first 60 minutes or so, Tottenham played very conservatively. It was more than just typical Mourinho-ball, it was pointed out multiple times about how when the ball would get pushed forward, the Tottenham backline would barely inch up. Tottenham conserved energy and took a full pounding from Liverpool, but outside of the Firmino goal, a VVD header that forced a nice save from Gazzaniga, and a Salah run; there were not too many great opportunities for LFC during the game. Toby and especially Sanchez were excellent.

After about 60 minutes, Tottenham appeared to emerge from their slumber and their attack roared to life, and created a lot of good chances and they were unlucky to score during the final 30 minutes. Liverpool, having exhausted itself pressing during the game and being on the attack while Spurs had remained stationary, was on its heels and it was a shame Lo Celso missed that tap in.

You always expect a jolt of energy when a substitution comes on but the difference between Eriksen and Lo Celso was...noticeable.

Tanganga was pretty good given what he was being asked to do, although he did get cooked pretty badly on the Firmino goal. Still, I'm all for less of Serge Aurier so I'm willing to roll with Tanganga for now.
 

Mugsy's Jock

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Tanganga was pretty good given what he was being asked to do, although he did get cooked pretty badly on the Firmino goal. Still, I'm all for less of Serge Aurier so I'm willing to roll with Tanganga for now.
Agree wholeheartedly. Would love to see Tanganga become a thing -- the save off the goal line was a big time baptism by fire.

LoCelso's spark has been well addressed upthread. I also thought Lamela added something when he came on -- I should probably stop being surprised that Lamela can be a real asset when he's out there.
 

Tangled Up In Red

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Looks pretty close to done. Really good opportunistic deal, as currently speculated - 3.5m loan fee for 18 months with a purchase option around 45m at that point.
Not exactly what we need (DM), but with Sissoko's injury, we just need a healthy body in CM. Kid looks to have talent/potential, plays as a number 8 almost exclusively.
 

DJnVa

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He burst onto the scene and played well in some UCL games, then got banged up a bit and the new manager hasn't played him as much. His release fee was set at £120 million when he was just a teenager.

Also, he was convinced to sign with Benfica for £250 and 25 soccer balls.
 

Tangled Up In Red

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Gedson deal is done. 18 month loan with an option to buy.
All upside (both the player and the deal), great addition.
 

coremiller

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Some actual winter transfer window news at Spurs:
  • As noted above, Spurs signed Gedson Fernandes on a 18-month loan with an option to buy from Benfica. Decent move since there's not a lot of financial risk, but I'm skeptical Gedson will be a first XI player when everyone is fit, and he doesn't feel the gaping hole at DM. Suggests that Mourinho sees Lo Celso as more of a #10 than a #8.
  • Eriksen has left for Inter Milan for 17m gbp, a very nice piece of business for a player with only six months left on his contract who has clearly wanted out since the summer, although the better move in hindsight would have been to sell Eriksen 12-18 months ago for big money. Eriksen was a great player for Spurs for several years, but has massively undermined his legacy among Spurs fans by shooting his way out of town the last six months. He was been downright awful all season. Rumor is also that he had a pre-contract deal set with Real Madrid to leave on a free this summer before Zidane vetoed it. In a related story, I now need a new Spurs jersey.
  • Spurs have made the Lo Celso move permanent, exercising their option on Lo Celso and signing him to a 5 year contract through 2025. Lo Celso has been their best player the last month once he finally started getting a run in the starting XI, is an immense talent, and is still just 23. They've now locked up his prime years and Spurs should be really fun to watch once both Ndombele and Lo Celso start playing together.
  • Danny Rose looks to be on the outs with Mourinho and is likely to get moved on, potentially to Newcastle. Walker-Peters seemed likely to be loaned to Southampton. Both reasonable deals in the abstract but that leave Spurs dangerously thin at fullback, already a position of weakness.
  • Spurs have either completed a deal, or are very close to completing a deal, for Stefan Bergwijn of PSV, in the 25-30m range. He fills a hole in Spurs' squad for a genuine winger who can threaten to dribble past defenders. He's just 22 and his stats and analytics are good, but obviously Eredivisie attacking numbers always have to be taken with several large grains of salt. But this is the sort of smart, forward-thinking business Spurs should be doing.
  • Spurs have come up a lot in rumors involving Polish AC Milan forward Krzysztof Piatek, but I'd be surprised if that goes through if the Bergwijn deal gets done unless they really think Kane is permanently crocked.
 

DJnVa

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Some actual winter transfer window news at Spurs:
  • As noted above, Spurs signed Gedson Fernandes on a 18-month loan with an option to buy from Benfica. Decent move since there's not a lot of financial risk, but I'm skeptical Gedson will be a first XI player when everyone is fit, and he doesn't feel the gaping hole at DM. Suggests that Mourinho sees Lo Celso as more of a #10 than a #8.
  • Eriksen has left for Inter Milan for 17m gbp, a very nice piece of business for a player with only six months left on his contract who has clearly wanted out since the summer, although the better move in hindsight would have been to sell Eriksen 12-18 months ago for big money. Eriksen was a great player for Spurs for several years, but has massively undermined his legacy among Spurs fans by shooting his way out of town the last six months. He was been downright awful all season. Rumor is also that he had a pre-contract deal set with Real Madrid to leave on a free this summer before Zidane vetoed it. In a related story, I now need a new Spurs jersey.
  • Spurs have made the Lo Celso move permanent, exercising their option on Lo Celso and signing him to a 5 year contract through 2025. Lo Celso has been their best player the last month once he finally started getting a run in the starting XI, is an immense talent, and is still just 23. They've now locked up his prime years and Spurs should be really fun to watch once both Ndombele and Lo Celso start playing together.
  • Danny Rose looks to be on the outs with Mourinho and is likely to get moved on, potentially to Newcastle. Walker-Peters seemed likely to be loaned to Southampton. Both reasonable deals in the abstract but that leave Spurs dangerously thin at fullback, already a position of weakness.
  • Spurs have either completed a deal, or are very close to completing a deal, for Stefan Bergwijn of PSV, in the 25-30m range. He fills a hole in Spurs' squad for a genuine winger who can threaten to dribble past defenders. He's just 22 and his stats and analytics are good, but obviously Eredivisie attacking numbers always have to be taken with several large grains of salt. But this is the sort of smart, forward-thinking business Spurs should be doing.
  • Spurs have come up a lot in rumors involving Polish AC Milan forward Krzysztof Piatek, but I'd be surprised if that goes through if the Bergwijn deal gets done unless they really think Kane is permanently crocked.
Lo Celso has looked *really* good. And regarding Piatek, I don't know, maybe they finally realized they need an adequate Kane backup? And then they can stop playing Kane in Cup matches against squads like Rochdale, but still have someone relatively threatening.

Hearing Wanyama may also be on way out--between him, Rose, and KWP and possibly Foyth, I'd expect 1 or 2 to depart.

Regarding Bergwijn, I love his highlights.

View: https://twitter.com/TalkingTHFC/status/1222104999670448129
 

67YAZ

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I asked a Dutch friend, who is a multi-generational PSV diehard, about Bergwijn. The highlights from a 1000+ word email -

The technical ability on the ball is world class, but he does not do defensive duties. Part of this is the PSV set up currently where Bergwijn is their best attacker, but that will be a big change working under Mourinho. He has decent height (5’ 10”) but isn’t strong in the air. He’s more compact and strong on the ball. He’s one of the fastest players in the Eredivise, but that won’t be as large an advantage in the EPL. All in all, he should be a success.

Also, PSV is 5th in the Eredivise right now, only a point out of 3rd but 2nd in goals scored. PSV fans are very upset to see Bergwijn go in the winter.
 

Zososoxfan

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Some actual winter transfer window news at Spurs:
  • As noted above, Spurs signed Gedson Fernandes on a 18-month loan with an option to buy from Benfica. Decent move since there's not a lot of financial risk, but I'm skeptical Gedson will be a first XI player when everyone is fit, and he doesn't feel the gaping hole at DM. Suggests that Mourinho sees Lo Celso as more of a #10 than a #8.
  • Eriksen has left for Inter Milan for 17m gbp, a very nice piece of business for a player with only six months left on his contract who has clearly wanted out since the summer, although the better move in hindsight would have been to sell Eriksen 12-18 months ago for big money. Eriksen was a great player for Spurs for several years, but has massively undermined his legacy among Spurs fans by shooting his way out of town the last six months. He was been downright awful all season. Rumor is also that he had a pre-contract deal set with Real Madrid to leave on a free this summer before Zidane vetoed it. In a related story, I now need a new Spurs jersey.
  • Spurs have made the Lo Celso move permanent, exercising their option on Lo Celso and signing him to a 5 year contract through 2025. Lo Celso has been their best player the last month once he finally started getting a run in the starting XI, is an immense talent, and is still just 23. They've now locked up his prime years and Spurs should be really fun to watch once both Ndombele and Lo Celso start playing together.
  • Danny Rose looks to be on the outs with Mourinho and is likely to get moved on, potentially to Newcastle. Walker-Peters seemed likely to be loaned to Southampton. Both reasonable deals in the abstract but that leave Spurs dangerously thin at fullback, already a position of weakness.
  • Spurs have either completed a deal, or are very close to completing a deal, for Stefan Bergwijn of PSV, in the 25-30m range. He fills a hole in Spurs' squad for a genuine winger who can threaten to dribble past defenders. He's just 22 and his stats and analytics are good, but obviously Eredivisie attacking numbers always have to be taken with several large grains of salt. But this is the sort of smart, forward-thinking business Spurs should be doing.
  • Spurs have come up a lot in rumors involving Polish AC Milan forward Krzysztof Piatek, but I'd be surprised if that goes through if the Bergwijn deal gets done unless they really think Kane is permanently crocked.
Bergwijn and KWP are official. Spurs may not be done, as the Piatek rumors are still swirling and now Giroud (!) is being mentioned. Giroud would actually be a pretty awesome pickup. He's a big lug that has only presumably become even more lug-like with age. However, he is a terrific skilled hold up player, and he can certainly get on the end of crosses, something which Spurs are finding success with (particularly with Aurier as wingback). The other rumor that actually gets me very excited is that Juve are shopping Emre Can. I've never really liked Can's game, but he would slot perfectly into Spurs squad right now. The reason I don't think this gets done is because it seems Mou/Levy are 100% all in on NEXT season. That's my takeaway from the Gedson and Bergwijn signings. Any Spurs fan could tell you that if the goal is to improve the squad for this season then they should be targeting DMFs, FBs, and a striker. Instead the two signings are CMF and a winger. In addition, Gedson is 21 and Bergwijn is 22. These guys are the future. It makes some sense too--players like Lamela, Moura, and Son (BIG GULP!) will have real value in the summer window and sales of some of these players would allow Spurs to improve other positions (namely striker and FB) while also shortening the rotation.

I would've loved to see Zlatan! at the Lane, and I hope Spurs are still poking PSG about Cavani, but with the latter he may be out of price range and he seems set on Atleti. Giroud makes a lot of sense as mentioned above--he presents an interesting test case about my theory about Mou/Levy focusing on next season at this season's expense.
 

DJnVa

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One of the ITK accounts on twitter that got Bergwijn's timing right is saying that Rose is gone.
 

caseumsd

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One of the ITK accounts on twitter that got Bergwijn's timing right is saying that Rose is gone.
Hearing Rose to Newcastle and KWP to Southhampton are done. They both were not at training this morning based on the reports. Following all the twitter hype is maddening. One minute they are signing Piatek, the next it’s Giroux. Then it’s Bale....you really do not know until the player is holding up the jersey.
 

Zososoxfan

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Rose loan to Newcastle confirmed. I'm saddened by this--Rose has been fun to root for and is a very brave player. He certainly had a role to play in this squad, but it really does seem like several key fixtures from the past wanted to get a fresh start elsewhere. I'll always appreciate Rose and will root for him and the Toons against just about anyone except Spurs.

CCV loan to Luton Town also confirmed. Likely just trying to have someone else pay his wages while Spurs see his contract out.

Still hoping Spurs nab some type of target forward, if for nothing else to give Mou a reasonable option when he needs to rotate.
 

coremiller

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Rose loan to Newcastle confirmed. I'm saddened by this--Rose has been fun to root for and is a very brave player. He certainly had a role to play in this squad, but it really does seem like several key fixtures from the past wanted to get a fresh start elsewhere. I'll always appreciate Rose and will root for him and the Toons against just about anyone except Spurs.

CCV loan to Luton Town also confirmed. Likely just trying to have someone else pay his wages while Spurs see his contract out.

Still hoping Spurs nab some type of target forward, if for nothing else to give Mou a reasonable option when he needs to rotate.
Rose has had a very up-and-down career at Tottenham but he scored one of my favorite ever Spurs goals, all the way back on his debut against Arsenal:

View: https://vimeo.com/71097071
 

Kliq

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I'll miss Rose a lot, he was capable of some excellent runs down the side and was a world-class shit-stirrer.
 

Mighty Joe Young

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wasn’t that always the knock on Eriksen in that he always would hit the first man? I read an interesting article in the Athletic about how he purposely always tried to do that .. basically threading the needle between the first and second defender .. a high risk high reward type of play in that it’s incredibly difficult to defend if the corner makes it past the first guy. When it fails it looks like that clip ..
 

DJnVa

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Reports today that Spurs and Sampdoria have agreed to loan deal for Foyth, but he's not on board yet.
 

Gunfighter 09

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Does anyone have the details on where Spurs are at with Troy Parrott? Is he going out on loan, or is he staying with the club this spring?

If it is the latter, I assume he has to be part of the answer to Jose's complaints about not having enough attacking players this spring, even though he is only 18.
 

Kliq

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Does anyone have the details on where Spurs are at with Troy Parrott? Is he going out on loan, or is he staying with the club this spring?

If it is the latter, I assume he has to be part of the answer to Jose's complaints about not having enough attacking players this spring, even though he is only 18.
I believe Jose has said that he does not believe that Parrott is ready to be a consistent player in the EPL, but I believe he has also said that he doesn't want to send him out on loan because he wants him to train with the club.
 

scott bankheadcase

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I believe Jose has said that he does not believe that Parrott is ready to be a consistent player in the EPL, but I believe he has also said that he doesn't want to send him out on loan because he wants him to train with the club.
There's a bigger key here. If I remember correctly he needs to stay at Tottenham until he's 18 so he get be classified as home grown. Otherwise I think he would have been loaned out already.
 

Kliq

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In regards to yesterday's game, just a massive performance from Hugo Lloris. He made a variety of different saves, some of which were extremely difficult and he only kept them out by the narrowest of margins, and obviously the penalty save was huge. He also made a really nice play in the first half when he left his line to dash and run near the touch line and dove to punch the ball out towards the corner, which then led to a Spurs counter attack.

The defense overall was very strong, considering the opponent. CB continues to be the strength of the team and Toby was awesome as usual. Aurier is still a calamity waiting to happen each game, but it was another strong performance from Taranga; to me the way he has played against Liverpool and City so far have shown me enough were I think he should be the starter going forward.

Bergwijn showed some skill and potential, but was also fairly wasteful (like the rest of our attackers) although he scored a magnificent goal so he gets an A for his debut. Ndombele came into the game and immediately made a huge difference, I have no idea why he isn't starting and I'm afraid that he is going to end up being the new Pogba for Mourinho.
 

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Bergwijn showed some skill and potential, but was also fairly wasteful (like the rest of our attackers) although he scored a magnificent goal so he gets an A for his debut. Ndombele came into the game and immediately made a huge difference, I have no idea why he isn't starting and I'm afraid that he is going to end up being the new Pogba for Mourinho.
Jose seems to have made Winks figure out that you can actually run and pass the ball forward and not just sideways or backwards. I keep waiting to see LoCelso, Winks and Ndombele all starting together. I assume there is some tactical reason that might not be happening that I just don't understand, but I'd like to see it.
 

scott bankheadcase

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Problem with Ndombele is conditioning. Even at the end of modest playing time yesterday he was gassed.

I think that, and nothing tactically, is why you're not seeing him feature yet.
 

coremiller

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Problem with Ndombele is conditioning. Even at the end of modest playing time yesterday he was gassed.

I think that, and nothing tactically, is why you're not seeing him feature yet.
Yeah, he's been struggling with injuries and fitness the whole season. I suspect he hasn't done a whole lot of first-team training as a result. It's a shame though because even his limited playing time so far while half-fit has made clear he is outrageously talented.
 

Tangled Up In Red

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Yeah, he's been struggling with injuries and fitness the whole season. I suspect he hasn't done a whole lot of first-team training as a result. It's a shame though because even his limited playing time so far while half-fit has made clear he is outrageously talented.
While true, it's worth noting, in my opinion, that he is a player who "looks" tired, even when he's fresh. They way he moves is slow & languid, which makes his quick shakes and feints even more effective.
 

DJnVa

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Spurs have allowed 2 goals in last 4 games, with 2 clean sheets. The last clean sheet prior to that was early December.
 

Zososoxfan

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Massive result. Now sitting 5th, 4 behind Chelsea, and only one behind on GD.

Tomorrow they take on Southampton for FA Cup before facing Villa on 16/02.
 

scott bankheadcase

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And Chelsea at Stanford Bridge a week later. With Liverpool running away with it, top 4 might be the real drama down the stretch. That game away to Chelsea is huge.
 

coremiller

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Spurs have allowed 2 goals in last 4 games, with 2 clean sheets. The last clean sheet prior to that was early December.
They really got spanked by City though and were extremely lucky not to concede 2 or 3 goals. I wouldn't put much stock in that.
 

DJnVa

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They really got spanked by City though and were extremely lucky not to concede 2 or 3 goals. I wouldn't put much stock in that.
Sure, but at some point it's results oriented--need the 3 points. Also, that seems to be how we always operated against them.

And even that game aside, 3 good defensive games in last 4 is better than we've seen.
 

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They really got spanked by City though and were extremely lucky not to concede 2 or 3 goals. I wouldn't put much stock in that.
Am I too much of a simpleton here for thinking this just means that Hugo is still really damn good?


And maybe that Super Jan is washed.
 

DJnVa

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Spurs dispatch Southampton 3-2 on the replay, with Son earning and converting a PK in last few minutes.
 

Gunfighter 09

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This seems the consensus from today, sadly.

It's a hell of a thing. Less than a year ago he was the best player on the pitch in a Champions league knock out round win. Now he seems basically unplayable against EPL competition. I was one of the idiots who wanted Levy to hold the Poch era team together forever, but this season sure is a lesson in why that is not the best strategy.
 

Jimy Hendrix

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Given how many games he's had this season, the only other conclusion I could even think is that he's a long ways off from match-fitness, rather than completely washed as an athelete.

If he's that bad against mid-tier EPL competition though, they can't afford to let him play back into match-fitness on a hope that it's the first thing and not the second thing, so it kind of doesn't matter either way for Spurs purposes.