Tottenham Hotspur 2019-20: GUYS I LOVE THE BANTZ

SeoulSoxFan

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Son played in the 1st WC qualifier win vs. Turkmenistan (2-0). A disappointing and lackluster effort from the squad (Turkmenistan is ranked #135 in the world) but Son escaped without any injuries.
 

OilCanShotTupac

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Put me in the pro-banter camp. What are we really going to talk about if we can't go into each others threads and insinuate that Spurs have blown their chance at winning anything meaningful and will soon descend back into mediocrity, that Arsenal have become a second tier club led by the Spanish Brendan Rodgers, that United have experienced the most astounding fall from grace short of AC Milan in football history, that Liverpool still haven't won the league in 30 years, that Chelsea are nothing more than the unity of a famously racist fanbase and a bunch of Russian oil money, and that everything City accomplishes will always be accompanied by a massive asterisk because they're playing on highly unethical cheat mode, funding their pretty football with the blood of imported slave labor and the tears of human rights activists?
...and that Everton will finish seventh again.
 

Gunfighter 09

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Put me in the pro-banter camp. What are we really going to talk about if we can't go into each others threads and insinuate that Spurs have blown their chance at winning anything meaningful and will soon descend back into mediocrity, that Arsenal have become a second tier club led by the Spanish Brendan Rodgers, that United have experienced the most astounding fall from grace short of AC Milan in football history, that Liverpool still haven't won the league in 30 years, that Chelsea are nothing more than the unity of a famously racist fanbase and a bunch of Russian oil money, and that everything City accomplishes will always be accompanied by a massive asterisk because they're playing on highly unethical cheat mode, funding their pretty football with the blood of imported slave labor and the tears of human rights activists?
Where can I buy this on a T-shirt?
 

coremiller

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Put me in the pro-banter camp. What are we really going to talk about if we can't go into each others threads and insinuate that Spurs have blown their chance at winning anything meaningful and will soon descend back into mediocrity, that Arsenal have become a second tier club led by the Spanish Brendan Rodgers, that United have experienced the most astounding fall from grace short of AC Milan in football history, that Liverpool still haven't won the league in 30 years, that Chelsea are nothing more than the unity of a famously racist fanbase and a bunch of Russian oil money, and that everything City accomplishes will always be accompanied by a massive asterisk because they're playing on highly unethical cheat mode, funding their pretty football with the blood of imported slave labor and the tears of human rights activists?
This is excellent but if you were going for peak banter you, ahem, slipped up.
 

coremiller

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Is that a Steven Gerrard reference directed at an Arsenal fan? You need to work on your game, son.
Mostly I meant you missed a golden opportunity to troll Liverpool fans, who deserve it for starting this whole diversion.

But my Thursday nights are clear this year, I'll set aside some time for this.
 

Kliq

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Nothing but good things to say about today's game. Spurs were the better side from the start and dominated the game, earning their most convincing result of the season. A few times a year, Son goes off and basically wins a game by himself and we were treated to that today. Aurier looked good in his first appearance of the season and Lamela continues his good form. Still waiting on seeing DESK together all at once, but at least today we did see the Belgians paired up once again.

It has been an odd first five games, the draw against City followed up by the crushing loss to Newcastle and then a draw with Arsenal, and then the international break. Today was a sign of how good things can be when this team plays up to its potential, and with Olympiacos in the UCL this week followed by league games against Leicester, Southampton, Brighton and Watford, a chance to go on a bit of a winning streak is in play.
 

Zososoxfan

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Nothing but good things to say about today's game. Spurs were the better side from the start and dominated the game, earning their most convincing result of the season. A few times a year, Son goes off and basically wins a game by himself and we were treated to that today. Aurier looked good in his first appearance of the season and Lamela continues his good form. Still waiting on seeing DESK together all at once, but at least today we did see the Belgians paired up once again.

It has been an odd first five games, the draw against City followed up by the crushing loss to Newcastle and then a draw with Arsenal, and then the international break. Today was a sign of how good things can be when this team plays up to its potential, and with Olympiacos in the UCL this week followed by league games against Leicester, Southampton, Brighton and Watford, a chance to go on a bit of a winning streak is in play.
This. Saturday's match was what this team can look like when it's all clicking. All the discussion about RB this summer confused me because I'm a huge fan of Aurier and he showed why he should be a big part of the club this season. In a way, the tactics on Saturday got everyone what they wanted with Sissoko at RB. When in possession, Spurs were in a 3-3-2-2 / 3-1-4-2 with Sissoko dropping into the back 3, Rose and Aurier flanking Winks and providing width, Lamela and Eriksen creating havoc between the lines, and Son and Kane doing their thang up front. When Aurier was in position at RB in defense, Sissoko moved in front of him and gave the MF the MF the muscle it needs if Winks is going to be a regista. I also thought Winks had an outstanding match and I'm not completely sold on him yet. I freely admit that I underestimated Eriksen's value to this club going into the season (when I thought he would be gone), but TBF I'd still like to see how this team looks with GLC or Dele in a similar role. I thought for sure Lamela would be gone from WHL by now but his renaissance has been a huge boon in this early part of the season. My love for Argentine Spurs knows no bounds (get better soon Foyth!). Hopefully Dele and Tanguay are healthy going into the busy next month. Very fun and exciting time for Spurs.
 

InstaFace

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Waiting for contact, feeling it, and going down easy isn't my definition of a dive. IF that's the case Salah dives literally every matchday. SO does Messi.
I'm with you on your larger point, it's not my definition either. But Messi is famous for trying to stay up at all costs, believing that he's always at an advantage. He's usually right. The amount of foul-worthy contact he's absorbed and run right through would probably give Neymar the shakes.

I won't say I've never seen Messi "go down easy", but it's probably by far the least of any forward at a top euro club, adjusted for number of opportunities. Maybe Aguero's in spitting distance. By those standards Kane (and everyone) certainly goes down more easily. But he is certainly not a simulator.
 

URI

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Yeah and both will probably start in 3 days against Leicester. Saves them almost 7 hours on a plane.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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Having a competent right-back really helped. Poch emphasized moving the ball faster upfield and that was also a key factor.

Son's two goals were quality but really liked the pass to Kane, before he crossed it over to Lamela. This was exciting football (well, at least for the first half).

7 matches in 20-odd days. I'm curious to see when Sonny gets a break.
 

Zososoxfan

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Rose and Aurier did not travel to Greece. Both started the PL game on Saturday.

That...seems risky. Davies and KWP are fine backups, but sitting both starting FBs (Aurier is in the best XI IMO) is certainly a gamble. Perhaps the plan is to utilize a 3-4-2-1/3-4-1-2 to minimize their defensive responsibilities?
 

coremiller

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It used to be normal for Poch to rotate the fullbacks for the midweek games. I remember for a while Walker/Rose played all the league fixtures and Trippier/Davies played all the European fixtures, but I think that was back when Spurs were still in the Europa League.

Maybe a reasonable gamble against Olympiacos and certainly against Red Star. I expect we'll see the first string for the Bayern matches.
 

Zososoxfan

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So... two left backs? I think we may see Toby at RB after Davo's performance there recently.
I bet Dav starts at RB--Poch doesn't seem to prioritize it much and Toby's distribution is best utilized from the middle. In any event, this will be a 3 DF in possession, with Davies pushing up and Jan-Toby-Sanchez at the back. In any event, I'm surprised KWP didn't make the XI, but it tells me that the MF 3 will all be asked to push higher with Winksy likely giving some cover to Davies.
 

DrewDawg

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I bet Dav starts at RB--Poch doesn't seem to prioritize it much and Toby's distribution is best utilized from the middle. In any event, this will be a 3 DF in possession, with Davies pushing up and Jan-Toby-Sanchez at the back. In any event, I'm surprised KWP didn't make the XI, but it tells me that the MF 3 will all be asked to push higher with Winksy likely giving some cover to Davies.
Davies pressing led directly to the second goal.
 
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Zososoxfan

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Davies pressing led directly to the second goa.
I assume you mean the first goal. If so, that's true to an extent but that was really a terrific goal. For the scorer to take that touch at a full sprint and finish from that angle was impressive. Could Davies have tried to get goalside position? Sure, and Jan was in the vicinity as well. But overall, I'll chalk that up to good offense.
 

DrewDawg

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I assume you mean the first goal. If so, that's true to an extent but that was really a terrific goal. For the scorer to take that touch at a full sprint and finish from that angle was impressive. Could Davies have tried to get goalside position? Sure, and Jan was in the vicinity as well. But overall, I'll chalk that up to good offense.
I'm talking about the Spurs second goal.
 

Mugsy's Jock

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Not to get all hot takey, but it feels like something's not quite right behind the scenes. Way too talented a club to post non-winning results against unspectacular opposition, persistent failure to hold leads, unpredictable substitution patterns.

So, yeah, that was about as hot takey as it gets. Just missing a body language analysis
 

SocrManiac

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Not to get all hot takey, but it feels like something's not quite right behind the scenes.
I noticed it first early on when Lamela was attempting to direct traffic. First off, he’s not that guy. Second, they were completely ignoring him and he was getting frustrated.

To me, that suggests a pretty significant disconnect somewhere. Why did Lamela have a different plan in his head? Is he ignoring Poch? Were others ignoring Poch?

I’m with you that something smells funny.
 

Zososoxfan

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I noticed it first early on when Lamela was attempting to direct traffic. First off, he’s not that guy. Second, they were completely ignoring him and he was getting frustrated.

To me, that suggests a pretty significant disconnect somewhere. Why did Lamela have a different plan in his head? Is he ignoring Poch? Were others ignoring Poch?

I’m with you that something smells funny.
There's no denying it at this point. Looking at facts, the biggest change over the summer was the transfer strategy--namely, bringing in talented players.

Some in the squad are likely bristling at the idea that their loyalty isn't being repaid and Spurs are now just another big club. On other boards there's a lot of talk about how Poch used to walk and talk a big game about being a family, but when he flirted with the idea of leaving (i.e. to Real, United), that burst the bubble a bit. Perhaps treating a player like Dier appropriately (i.e. not playing on a club with Spurs' aspirations) isn't sitting well with some.

From a performance perspective, 2 things stand out about the rest for me. First, Lamela getting tons of PT and Lucas sitting on the bench has been a total surprise. Lamela has delivered so far, so hard to argue. But, going into the season, I thought Moura would get loads of PT as a winger opposite and backing up Son. Second, Ndombele is still figuring out how to fit in with the side and the EPL.

From a tactical perspective, it also looks like Poch is really trying to make the 4-3-3 work. Winks-Sissoko-Ndombele looks good enough on paper, but Spurs have been run over in the MF at time with these 3. I'd like to see a bit more 4-2-3-1/3-4-2-1 sprinkled in to get players comfortable again, and perhaps let Ndombele work in against weak opposition.

All this said, I'm not losing any patience just yet. I'll be curious to see where we stand in a month or at the beginning of November as everyone hopefully settles in a bit more and Poch begins figuring out how all the new toys fit together.
 

Kliq

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Not to get all hot takey, but it feels like something's not quite right behind the scenes. Way too talented a club to post non-winning results against unspectacular opposition, persistent failure to hold leads, unpredictable substitution patterns.

So, yeah, that was about as hot takey as it gets. Just missing a body language analysis
I agree, too many disappointing results. At least with United, Arsenal and Chelsea there are obvious issues and holes that have led to their struggles early. Spurs have had a few absences, but this team is talented and experienced enough to expect better. On Saturday they actually played really well and probably should have had two goals save for the closest offsides call in the history of the game. Two things stood out to me:

- Wanyama did not look ready when he came into the game and was a clear downgrade during those critical final 15 minutes. Since he is coming back from injury it isn't unexpected, but it might have been a critical mistake to bring him on in that situation.

- Eriksen came on late and felt lifeless. Something isn't right and it is obvious his contract situation has altered his play in some fashion, whether it is because Poch doesn't trust him as much or he has lost some passion for Spurs, he just didn't feel like a world-class player coming off the bench.

At some point, I would really like to see our two best midfielders play at the same time. We really haven't seen DESK yet, which is disappointing. On the bright side, Lo Celso is coming back and Sessengnon will add another attacking option, and Ndombele should improve as time goes by, so there is plenty of room for optimism. Aurier has emerged from the dog house and has played two really strong games so far.

I think it would be more upsetting if it felt like Spurs were getting left behind. While they are probably not cut out for the title chase, the mishmash of teams outside of City/Liverpool are all beatable and it is reasonable to believe, if not expect, that Spurs will put together a string of results and firmly establish themselves as the third-best team in the EPL and also secure advancement to the KO stage in the UCL.
 

Kliq

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Spurs bounced from the League Cup after failing to score against League 2 side Colchester and losing on penalties after Lucas and Eriksen (who continues to struggle from the penalty spot) failed to convert. Bleh.
 

OilCanShotTupac

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There's no denying it at this point. Looking at facts, the biggest change over the summer was the transfer strategy--namely, bringing in talented players.

Some in the squad are likely bristling at the idea that their loyalty isn't being repaid and Spurs are now just another big club. On other boards there's a lot of talk about how Poch used to walk and talk a big game about being a family, but when he flirted with the idea of leaving (i.e. to Real, United), that burst the bubble a bit.
Perhaps treating a player like Dier appropriately (i.e. not playing on a club with Spurs' aspirations) isn't sitting well with some.

From a performance perspective, 2 things stand out about the rest for me. First, Lamela getting tons of PT and Lucas sitting on the bench has been a total surprise. Lamela has delivered so far, so hard to argue. But, going into the season, I thought Moura would get loads of PT as a winger opposite and backing up Son. Second, Ndombele is still figuring out how to fit in with the side and the EPL.

From a tactical perspective, it also looks like Poch is really trying to make the 4-3-3 work. Winks-Sissoko-Ndombele looks good enough on paper, but Spurs have been run over in the MF at time with these 3. I'd like to see a bit more 4-2-3-1/3-4-2-1 sprinkled in to get players comfortable again, and perhaps let Ndombele work in against weak opposition.

All this said, I'm not losing any patience just yet. I'll be curious to see where we stand in a month or at the beginning of November as everyone hopefully settles in a bit more and Poch begins figuring out how all the new toys fit together.
This is a thing throughout the PL. Fans want the clubs to be ruthless when it comes to benching or culling out underperforming players (and managers) and headhunting new acquisitions in the window - but then they expect their best talent to love the club as much as they do, treat it like a family, and stick around out of loyalty. You can try to have it both ways, but you're not going to get it.
 

jkempa

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Spurs bounced from the League Cup after failing to score against League 2 side Colchester and losing on penalties after Lucas and Eriksen (who continues to struggle from the penalty spot) failed to convert. Bleh.
Wow, Colchester is on a roll. They beat Palace on penalties as well. Good for them.
 

coremiller

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Good news: after a tumultuous transfer window, Spurs finally got one of their starters to sign a new contract!

Bad news: it was Sissoko, whom they've now looked up through 2023 (his age-34 season).
 

Zososoxfan

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Good news: after a tumultuous transfer window, Spurs finally got one of their starters to sign a new contract!

Bad news: it was Sissoko, whom they've now looked up through 2023 (his age-34 season).
Not sure what you're on here, but I love Sissoko and he's been far from a problem this season. Frankly, I think moving to a 4-2-3-1 with him and either Winksy/Ndombele would be a big step forward. Although the likelihood of good performance past age 31-32 is a stretch.
 

coremiller

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Not sure what you're on here, but I love Sissoko and he's been far from a problem this season. Frankly, I think moving to a 4-2-3-1 with him and either Winksy/Ndombele would be a big step forward. Although the likelihood of good performance past age 31-32 is a stretch.
It was a joke about how they managed to extend Sissoko but not Eriksen, Alderweireld, Vertonghen, much more important players whose contracts expire at the end of the season.

I also think Sissoko's limitations have been exposed this season. He doesn't contribute enough defensively to compensate for his limited creativity and passing on the ball. He had a nice right-sided partnership with Trippier last season but with Trippier gone Spurs' right side has been a total disaster in both directions. He's not bad but he shouldn't be regularly starting big matches for a team with Spurs' aspirations. I don't see any reason to extend his contract given his age.
 

67YAZ

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First NFL game at the new WHL this week. Will be interested to see how it all goes.
 

Mugsy's Jock

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Wow. Can't tell who's going to win the race between Poch quitting on the club vs. the club quitting on Poch.

Anything less than two wins in the next two PL matches, and heads gotta roll. Or build a new stadium.
 

coremiller

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Other xG models have Bayern even lower. I'm increasingly convinced this match was a gigantic fluke. But it looks really bad to ship seven goals at home.
 

wonderland

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Other xG models have Bayern even lower. I'm increasingly convinced this match was a gigantic fluke. But it looks really bad to ship seven goals at home.
It was some good finishing but there was space to shoot on most of the goals. You get players of that quality an extra half second and the chance of them finishing goes up dramatically.