Tottenham Hotspur 20/21: José se foi.

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
44,353
There was a report this morning, which has apparently been debunked (but who really knows?) that Mourinho refused to take the team out for training today to protest the Super League.
 

scott bankheadcase

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 1, 2006
1,336
hoboken
There was a report this morning, which has apparently been debunked (but who really knows?) that Mourinho refused to take the team out for training today to protest the Super League.
Yeah, but it's been thoroughly debunked. It was basically tweeted by a parody account and 5 different actual journalist have said there's no truth to it at all.

Decision was made on friday, and it sounds like they were negotiating the severance (which looks like it's 15M).
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
44,353
Anyway, Ryan Mason (who played here with Bale) is taking over.
 

SeoulSoxFan

I Want to Hit the World with Rocket Punch
Dope
Jun 27, 2006
21,102
A Scud Away from Hell
There was a report this morning, which has apparently been debunked (but who really knows?) that Mourinho refused to take the team out for training today to protest the Super League.
The WeAreTottenhamTV guys debunked that report as well.

Mou did indeed refused to support the Spurs joining the Super League. It's hard not to be suspicious of the timing.

A few pundits (including Gary Neville) putting some of the blame on the American owners who don't understand the promotion/relegation system as an essential part of competition.

This whole thing is pretty crazy.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
44,353
So, what do we want to see heading forward?

--Win the cup.
--Get Dele back in lineup.
--Talk to Kane about potential managers?
 

scott bankheadcase

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 1, 2006
1,336
hoboken
The WeAreTottenhamTV guys debunked that report as well.

Mou did indeed refused to support the Spurs joining the Super League. It's hard not to be suspicious of the timing.

A few pundits (including Gary Neville) putting some of the blame on the American owners who don't understand the promotion/relegation system as an essential part of competition.

This whole thing is pretty crazy.
Blame for Jose's sacking? I don't understand this. Ali Gold, Dan Kirpatrick, Fabrizio Romano, ect. ect. all are reporting (and these are the gold standard for soccer journalism) that this was solely based on results and decided on Friday after a pretty pathetic performance against everton.

What does promotion/relegation have to do with it?
 

SeoulSoxFan

I Want to Hit the World with Rocket Punch
Dope
Jun 27, 2006
21,102
A Scud Away from Hell
Blame for Jose's sacking? I don't understand this. Ali Gold, Dan Kirpatrick, Fabrizio Romano, ect. ect. all are reporting (and these are the gold standard for soccer journalism) that this was solely based on results and decided on Friday after a pretty pathetic performance against everton.

What does promotion/relegation have to do with it?
My bad as I mixed the 2 topics.

The speculation was that Mou was sacked in part due to him not supporting the Super League (although the Spurs needed to sign a big-name manager like Mou after Poch).

The pundits' blame on the American owners was specifically for creating the SL itself, not Mou getting fired.
 

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
15,357
It's a nice little story for Jose if he gets fired for "standing up for the good of football" instead of because he was ineffective manager that refused to play our best players and pushed an ancient brand of soccer that didn't gel at all with the strengths of the team. Even if the rumour was true (which it doesn't appear to be) it would just be Jose taking the suicide by cop route because he knew he was getting the axe anyway.

Happy he is gone right now when someone can be salvaged over the last six league games (plus the EFL Cup), instead of waiting for the end of the year which is when I figured he would get the boot.
 

SeoulSoxFan

I Want to Hit the World with Rocket Punch
Dope
Jun 27, 2006
21,102
A Scud Away from Hell
If* Son won't be allowed to play in the 2022 World Cup (as a member of the ESL-bound Spurs), there's a chance he lets Levy know that he won't re-sign with Tottenham. That will most likely force a sale right after the season is over.

There will be a big incentive for Son to play for a German club instead. He can return to his second "home" in Bundesliga and still represent SK in Qatar.

It's such an honor and a national pride for one of our countrymen to play for a club like the Spurs but I can't underestimate the importance of playing in the World Cup either.

* It's a big if, of course.
 

Zososoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 30, 2009
6,895
South of North
Good riddance Jose, get fooked.

I doubt Spurs are able to nab Nagelsmann--seems destined for Bayern. Rodgers would be good, Ten Haag still an option, not sure about Hasenhuttl or others.

I hope the Super League gets kiboshed, but that the UCL gets reformatted, and not the Swiss model that's currently on the table.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 2, 2006
19,221
Philadelphia
There is zero chance of anybody being banned from playing in the World Cup due to participating in the ESL. FIFA has absolutely no reason to go along with that and if they tried then all the sponsors and commercial partners they have lined up for 2022 would scream bloody murder and/or bring suit immediately.

I think Spurs fired Mourinho mainly because he was terrible but also because Levy is confident the ESL will go ahead and so eating 30m (or whatever it is) to pay him off doesn't look so bad now.
 

scott bankheadcase

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 1, 2006
1,336
hoboken
There is zero chance of anybody being banned from playing in the World Cup due to participating in the ESL. FIFA has absolutely no reason to go along with that and if they tried then all the sponsors and commercial partners they have lined up for 2022 would scream bloody murder and/or bring suit immediately.

I think Spurs fired Mourinho mainly because he was terrible but also because Levy is confident the ESL will go ahead and so eating 30m (or whatever it is) to pay him off doesn't look so bad now.
Reported that they negotiated at 15m severance.

Here's one source: View: https://twitter.com/TalkingTHFC/status/1384095233986555907
 

Zososoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 30, 2009
6,895
South of North
Also, I finally got around to watching the Everton match last night. What a tactical shit show for Mou to leave on. Sissoko had such a puzzling performance that I have to think he was just totally disillusioned with Jose and didn't know what to do (in addition to potentially being merely washed up). He actually made forward passes and tried to get forward, but then he also couldn't be inconvenienced with tracking back for the WBs.

The WBs just had no coordination and the halftime show correctly pointed out that Everton's first goal was caused in large part because both were caught upfield.

Spurs were so so lucky to nab 2 goals and earn a point. Kane is goddamned lethal. That first goal was incredible, especially for being on his weaker foot, and the second goal was just so easy for him (not easy for everyone).

Dier continues to be terrible and he was clearly picked on for Everton's second goal (which was stunningly beautiful BTW). Lloris came up huge and deserves the second most credit for the point behind Kane.

Rodon looked very good. He's certainly got the correct level of nastiness (I assume we're not using the C word anymore, because that was what came to mind).

Lucas had the most bad Lucas game I can ever remember--appropriate for Mou's last match. The commentators pegged Lamela perfectly--brings tons of positive energy, very capable of linking the MF and attack, but the final touch is maddeningly inconsistent.

Very curious to see what Mason (is this confirmed?) comes out with on Wednesday. Any idea what to expect?
 

scott bankheadcase

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 1, 2006
1,336
hoboken
Also, I finally got around to watching the Everton match last night. What a tactical shit show for Mou to leave on. Sissoko had such a puzzling performance that I have to think he was just totally disillusioned with Jose and didn't know what to do (in addition to potentially being merely washed up). He actually made forward passes and tried to get forward, but then he also couldn't be inconvenienced with tracking back for the WBs.

The WBs just had no coordination and the halftime show correctly pointed out that Everton's first goal was caused in large part because both were caught upfield.

Spurs were so so lucky to nab 2 goals and earn a point. Kane is goddamned lethal. That first goal was incredible, especially for being on his weaker foot, and the second goal was just so easy for him (not easy for everyone).

Dier continues to be terrible and he was clearly picked on for Everton's second goal (which was stunningly beautiful BTW). Lloris came up huge and deserves the second most credit for the point behind Kane.

Rodon looked very good. He's certainly got the correct level of nastiness (I assume we're not using the C word anymore, because that was what came to mind).

Lucas had the most bad Lucas game I can ever remember--appropriate for Mou's last match. The commentators pegged Lamela perfectly--brings tons of positive energy, very capable of linking the MF and attack, but the final touch is maddeningly inconsistent.

Very curious to see what Mason (is this confirmed?) comes out with on Wednesday. Any idea what to expect?
I bet we see Bale starting again. I also think Kane's won't be available with the ankle and they'll hope he can play in the final.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
44,353
The Athletic with some inside stuff:

'He sucked the culture out of the club' - the inside story of Jose Mourinho's downfall at Tottenham Hotspur – The Athletic

It was half-time at the Etihad Stadium on February 13. Tottenham were 1-0 down to Manchester City but had barely been in the game at all. No shots on target, no corners, 35.9 per cent possession.

Jose Mourinho walked in and was unusually positive, telling the players they were doing well and to keep it up. Some of the senior players in the dressing room were shocked that such a passive, negative approach could be right for this club. “You really think this is good?” remarked one. Tottenham did nothing in the second half and lost the game 3-0.
While many of the players were pleased to hear of Mourinho’s dismissal on Monday...
The Kane note below is interesting:
The Athletic
can reveal how:

  • Tottenham players were left bored and untested by his training sessions
  • Most of squad were expecting his sacking
  • Tactics were so obsessed with stopping opposition that players were unsure how to attack
  • Mourinho’s assistant Joao Sacramento was unpopular with the squad
  • The club were unhappy with Mourinho’s criticism of the players and asked him to stop it
  • Mourinho ran out of allies at the club, on and off the pitch
  • Only Harry Kane was loyal to Mourinho at the end
  • His dismissal had nothing to do with the Super League and was based purely on results
Under the Argentinean, the team had a clear philosophy of play which they would work on perfecting every day. Under Mourinho, that went out of the window. His approach was to tailor different tactics to every single opponent, designed to exploit their own distinct weaknesses. Players remarked that as they got closer to every match, the atmosphere was increasingly marked by fear of what might go wrong. Spurs were so fixated on what the opposition might do, they forgot to focus on their own game.
 
Last edited:

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
15,357
The Athletic had a very thorough article on what led to Jose's departure and failure.

1. Jose's antics at motivating his players were originally positively received, but quickly grew tiresome and he was asked to tone down the criticism, which he apparently did but Jose reportedly felt like that handicapped him as a coach since he wasn't able to be as critical as he would have liked.

2. Harry Kane was the only Tottenham player still loyal to Jose and would have run through a brick wall for him. Harry did thank him on Twitter earlier this morning.

3. Levy was enamored by Jose and loved the idea of a coach with his resume coaching at WHL. This allowed Jose a longer leash at Tottenham than some sources felt like he deserved.

4. The players felt underprepared and confused when going into games. Physical training sessions were light, a stark contrast to Poch who ran rigorous practices. Players also felt like Jose changed the tactics on a game-by-game basis, which caused confusion about their individual roles. Players also said that so much focus was put on defending and stopping the other team from doing something that they were scared to attack on offense.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
44,353
Also in that article:

There is also a sense at the club that the players must bear some real responsibility for the struggles in recent years. The fact that the same squad has made the opposite complaints about Mourinho as they did about Pochettino has not gone unnoticed, nor has the way that the players’ form tailed off at the first sign of trouble.
 

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
15,357
It definitely is not an entirely Jose problem. I thought that in the Everton game, while Jose made imo, bad choices with squad selection and some tactical miscues, the players played extremely poorly. Dier was terrible, the fullbacks offered little in both attack and defending, Sissoko was bad, Lamela screwed up several chances late in the game, Lucas had a terrible game...it wasn't entirely Jose's fault. Now, Jose probably shoulders some responsibility for killing team morale and refusing to play our best players, but the problems for Tottenham go far beyond Jose.

My dream scenario right now is that there is a honeymoon period with Mason, and they go on to play more attacking soccer with Bale and Dele playing a bigger role. Finish the season strongly, qualify for Europe (presumably, we will see how the ESL shakes out) and build some momentum heading into the next season. Use the offseason to ship some of the problematic players out and reload with some fresh faces.

The rumors about Kane wanting out are troubling. He was apparently loyal to Jose and Jose's firing, while the correct move, might hurt Kane's willingness to stay. If I'm him I just turned out a POY season and got nothing in return when it comes to trophies, potential EFL Cup notwithstanding. The clock is ticking on his prime, and he could make a hefty amount of money going somewhere else. I always felt like the team could retain Kane as long as they remained competitive at the highest level, and they are currently not at that level. The potential loss of Lloris is also concerning; they don't have another keeper currently ready to step into the role and Lloris has been underrated and a rock this season for a team with a revolving door of shaky defenders.
 

coremiller

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
4,985
It definitely is not an entirely Jose problem. I thought that in the Everton game, while Jose made imo, bad choices with squad selection and some tactical miscues, the players played extremely poorly. Dier was terrible, the fullbacks offered little in both attack and defending, Sissoko was bad, Lamela screwed up several chances late in the game, Lucas had a terrible game...it wasn't entirely Jose's fault. Now, Jose probably shoulders some responsibility for killing team morale and refusing to play our best players, but the problems for Tottenham go far beyond Jose.

My dream scenario right now is that there is a honeymoon period with Mason, and they go on to play more attacking soccer with Bale and Dele playing a bigger role. Finish the season strongly, qualify for Europe (presumably, we will see how the ESL shakes out) and build some momentum heading into the next season. Use the offseason to ship some of the problematic players out and reload with some fresh faces.

The rumors about Kane wanting out are troubling. He was apparently loyal to Jose and Jose's firing, while the correct move, might hurt Kane's willingness to stay. If I'm him I just turned out a POY season and got nothing in return when it comes to trophies, potential EFL Cup notwithstanding. The clock is ticking on his prime, and he could make a hefty amount of money going somewhere else. I always felt like the team could retain Kane as long as they remained competitive at the highest level, and they are currently not at that level. The potential loss of Lloris is also concerning; they don't have another keeper currently ready to step into the role and Lloris has been underrated and a rock this season for a team with a revolving door of shaky defenders.
Kane's not going anywhere. He's under contract for three more years, it would take an astronomical fee for Levy to sell him, and nobody's putting up that kind of fee during Covid times for a 28-year-old striker with a history of niggling injury problems.
 

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
15,357
Kane's not going anywhere. He's under contract for three more years, it would take an astronomical fee for Levy to sell him, and nobody's putting up that kind of fee during Covid times for a 28-year-old striker with a history of niggling injury problems.
Nobody wants this to be true more than me. Basically my only enjoyment from Spurs this season is watching Harry (and Son) score goals.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
44,353
Kane's not going anywhere. He's under contract for three more years, it would take an astronomical fee for Levy to sell him, and nobody's putting up that kind of fee during Covid times for a 28-year-old striker with a history of niggling injury problems.
And a year without European games (depending on what happens with ESL) could no wonders for the team.
 

Zososoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 30, 2009
6,895
South of North
It definitely is not an entirely Jose problem. I thought that in the Everton game, while Jose made imo, bad choices with squad selection and some tactical miscues, the players played extremely poorly. Dier was terrible, the fullbacks offered little in both attack and defending, Sissoko was bad, Lamela screwed up several chances late in the game, Lucas had a terrible game...it wasn't entirely Jose's fault. Now, Jose probably shoulders some responsibility for killing team morale and refusing to play our best players, but the problems for Tottenham go far beyond Jose.

My dream scenario right now is that there is a honeymoon period with Mason, and they go on to play more attacking soccer with Bale and Dele playing a bigger role. Finish the season strongly, qualify for Europe (presumably, we will see how the ESL shakes out) and build some momentum heading into the next season. Use the offseason to ship some of the problematic players out and reload with some fresh faces.

The rumors about Kane wanting out are troubling. He was apparently loyal to Jose and Jose's firing, while the correct move, might hurt Kane's willingness to stay. If I'm him I just turned out a POY season and got nothing in return when it comes to trophies, potential EFL Cup notwithstanding. The clock is ticking on his prime, and he could make a hefty amount of money going somewhere else. I always felt like the team could retain Kane as long as they remained competitive at the highest level, and they are currently not at that level. The potential loss of Lloris is also concerning; they don't have another keeper currently ready to step into the role and Lloris has been underrated and a rock this season for a team with a revolving door of shaky defenders.
While players play, it was a tactical disasterclass from Mou and I'm not pinning any of it on the players (other than Sissoko's lack of effort). Dier was awful, but the defensive setup was trash and it's been obvious for some time that most fixtures didn't include a tactical offensive plan.
 

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
15,357
While players play, it was a tactical disasterclass from Mou and I'm not pinning any of it on the players (other than Sissoko's lack of effort). Dier was awful, but the defensive setup was trash and it's been obvious for some time that most fixtures didn't include a tactical offensive plan.
The most frustrating thing for me this season is watching games unfold by Tottenham opening the game up with strong offensive play for the first 30 minutes, ending with a goal. Then Tottenham park the bus, stop attacking or looking to maintain possession, and instead buckle down as defenders come on as substitutes, which inevitably ends up with the opponents eventually getting an equalizer (or taking the lead) and Tottenham dropping points. This happened week-after-week and devolved into a weekly torture.

The frustrating part was that during the early stages of the game, it would be clear that Tottenham had the talent to control the game, and instead of keeping their foot on the gas, Jose would park the bus and allow less-talented teams to control the game and nab a goal after Dier/Sissoko/Sanchez/Aurier made a mistake. So many games this season that should have been 3-0 or 3-1 victories ended up in 1-1 draws.
 

Zososoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 30, 2009
6,895
South of North
The most frustrating thing for me this season is watching games unfold by Tottenham opening the game up with strong offensive play for the first 30 minutes, ending with a goal. Then Tottenham park the bus, stop attacking or looking to maintain possession, and instead buckle down as defenders come on as substitutes, which inevitably ends up with the opponents eventually getting an equalizer (or taking the lead) and Tottenham dropping points. This happened week-after-week and devolved into a weekly torture.

The frustrating part was that during the early stages of the game, it would be clear that Tottenham had the talent to control the game, and instead of keeping their foot on the gas, Jose would park the bus and allow less-talented teams to control the game and nab a goal after Dier/Sissoko/Sanchez/Aurier made a mistake. So many games this season that should have been 3-0 or 3-1 victories ended up in 1-1 draws.
It's why I've said Mou is not the pragmatist his apologists say he is. He's an obstinate dinosaur. He really should take this as his cue to get into the international game. He would be brilliant at that.
 

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
15,357
It's why I've said Mou is not the pragmatist his apologists say he is. He's an obstinate dinosaur. He really should take this as his cue to get into the international game. He would be brilliant at that.
I'd also add that Tottenham often were only able to win points thanks to incredible efficiency from Son and Kane. Tottenham are 4th in goals scored, but 9th in xG. Kane and Son have made the absolute most out of the limited chances Mou's system could create. The Everton game they didn't even generate any good chances; Kane was fortunate to sniff the goal twice and he buried each chance.
 

Jimy Hendrix

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 15, 2002
3,811
It's why I've said Mou is not the pragmatist his apologists say he is. He's an obstinate dinosaur. He really should take this as his cue to get into the international game. He would be brilliant at that.
Nobody there has the time to coach attacking play really, so it levels things out for him.
 

coremiller

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
4,985
Nobody wants this to be true more than me. Basically my only enjoyment from Spurs this season is watching Harry (and Son) score goals.
On the down side, if Spurs don't improve in the next season or two, I could definitely see Kane pulling an RVP when he gets down to 1 year left on his contract and demanding a move to a more competitive club to win trophies.
 

Zososoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 30, 2009
6,895
South of North
I'm guessing Jose didn't value Bale's input on club selection.

Terrific that Spurs got the 3 points and that the team showed some real spine in the final 15 minutes of the match (how's that for a juxtaposition)! Now, why in the hell did Dier start?!??
 

scott bankheadcase

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 1, 2006
1,336
hoboken
I'm guessing Jose didn't value Bale's input on club selection.

Terrific that Spurs got the 3 points and that the team showed some real spine in the final 15 minutes of the match (how's that for a juxtaposition)! Now, why in the hell did Dier start?!??
I would prefer Sanchez, but Rodon can't start Sunday and the reporting is that Mason was trying to get some continuity between 2 CBs.
 

Jimy Hendrix

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 15, 2002
3,811
I'm guessing Jose didn't value Bale's input on club selection.

Terrific that Spurs got the 3 points and that the team showed some real spine in the final 15 minutes of the match (how's that for a juxtaposition)! Now, why in the hell did Dier start?!??
He was pretty good I thought. I wouldn't mind that Dier starting.

The problem is how we usually get that Dier plus 1 - 3 catastrophic errors.
 

coremiller

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
4,985
He was pretty good I thought. I wouldn't mind that Dier starting.

The problem is how we usually get that Dier plus 1 - 3 catastrophic errors.
Dier is much better in a team pressing aggressively and playing a high line. He's quick and athletic and can cover ground, close space down and make tackles, he's an ok passer for a CB (he used to play in MF after all), and if he concedes a foul or two, no big deal. He's much worse defending in his own penalty box, where his errors have more catastrophic effects.

This of course was all obvious to anyone who's ever watched him play. So why Mourinho kept trying to turn him into John Terry was always a mystery.
 

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
15,357
Maybe I'm just a biased sap, and I know there are a ton of people who feel hurt and betrayed by Tottenham's involvement in the ESL, but I can't really get too worked up about it when it comes to my relationship with the club. As much as I disdained the idea the concept of the ESL and enjoyed seeing it collapse in 48 hours, I don't feel that much vitriol towards Levy/Tottenham ownership. Tottenham was invited to the exclusive club when they probably didn't have to be, and they said yes. Does every complicit team bear some responsibility for the ESL? Of course, but I can't get that worked up about feeling betrayed, or abused by Tottenham management. I'm ready to take in the Ryan Mason era and cheer on the team and pretend that this all didn't happen.

I read and hear about how upset fans are about the ESL, have clubs have apparently lost live-long supporters, etc. As an overall fan of the sport I share their frustrations, but as a personal supporter of Tottenham? Eh, it wasn't a positive moment for Levy and Co. but I'm willing to move on.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
44,353
Mason borrows some Pochettino-isms as Tottenham find some optimism post-Mourinho – The Athletic

The first half was a muddle. A symptom that everyone’s attention was briefly diverted this week and that, perhaps, this hastily assembled coaching staff haven’t had the time to turn their attention to defensive set pieces or dealing with crosses. Had it not been for a trio of truly excellent Hugo Lloris saves, Southampton might have been out of sight. Che Adams should have scored. Kyle Walker-Peters probably should have done too.

But after an hour, it began to feel good again. Effective and proactive, certainly, but also familiar.
And yet Bale’s goal awoke something. In the days after his interim appointment, Mason spoke of Mauricio Pochettino’s influence upon him, both as a man and as a coach, and his Tottenham would go on to produce just enough football to elicit a feeling of faint nostalgia.

After Bale had shaped his equaliser into the top corner, that attacking carousel began to shift gears. Suddenly Son was dropping wide and left, teasing a defender out towards the touchline and opening space for a knifing run into the box. There were the full-backs, too, punching through lines and creating superiorities that haven’t been seen since the turn of the year. Sergio Reguilon and Serge Aurier may have begun the game hearing footsteps and showing all the scars of the past few months, but by full-time they were providing thrust and support, most notably for a midfield which really developed a firm footing.
This was aggressive football. It was also borrowed from Pochettino. It was many other things too: patchy, late to arrive and aided by Danny Ings limping off and a Southampton challenge that noticeably wilted, but it was still a welcome change of tone
Tottenham have found something to be terrified of in nearly every fixture they’ve played, and as any fan will tell you, that’s an exhausting way to go through the fixture list.

Here, though, was the relief and optimism. A flawed, imperfect and slightly fortunate win in the end, but one which was deserved reward for chasing a game before it became a lost cause.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
44,353
Go to google and type in lackadaisical and read the sample sentence from google’s definition.

"a lackadaisical defense left the Spurs adrift in the second half"