Tottenham 2017/18: Suck it Arsenal

InstaFace

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Not a good day for VAR today. Yikes.
btw, I thought the PK wave-off was legit. The first one disallowed for that weird going-both-ways jersey pull, yeah, god only knows what they were thinking. But Son completely stopped in the run-up. It's black and white. They all try to get so cute with that, and he got too cute. Just go kick the damn ball.
 

DJnVa

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But Son completely stopped in the run-up. It's black and white. .
It's not black and white. You 100% allowed to feint an opponent. The rule says absolutely nothing about stopping. The rule only has 2 parts--the first is you are allowed to feint to confuse an opponent. The second is that "unsporting behavior" is not allowed. It is the referee's judgment as to what is a fake and what is unsporting behavior.

I am not saying it wasn't the right call. But it's not black and white.

And anyway, both teams encroached and he could have allowed the PK to be retaken.

Completely pro-Spurs story where I cribbed all this: https://cartilagefreecaptain.sbnation.com/2018/3/1/17065670/tottenham-hotspur-analysis-rochdale-fa-cup-son-heung-min-disallowed-penalty
 

InstaFace

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Coming to a complete stop in the run-up amounts to "unsporting" for many refs, and the fraction of the time that such action resulted in a disallowed PK went up dramatically about 3-4 years ago, such that I have to assume UEFA made it a point of emphasis. The announcers were commenting all over the place around then that varying your run-up speed was fine, but you had to proceed in one continuous motion to the ball once you started - stopping completely would henceforth be considered a violation. It might not be a rule de jure, but it's a rule de facto.

No less than Leo Messi has gotten yellow carded for this:

 

Schnerres

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There´s obviously a difference between those two penalties by Son and Messi.
I can agree to the opinion that there is no need to do this kind of crap what Son did and can live with the ref stopping this nonsense. But what Messi did is another level and unsportsmanlike.
 

coremiller

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After taking care of business today against Huddersfield, Spurs now have a 17-match unbeaten streak. Their last loss was at the Etihad in mid-December.

Also, remember the supposed Wembley curse? Spurs are 11-1-0 in their last 12 matches at Wembley in all competitions. They haven't lost at home since the Carling Cup loss to West Ham in October. After starting the home league campaign with a loss and two draws, Spurs are 10-2-0 at home since.
 

DJnVa

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Coming to a complete stop in the run-up amounts to "unsporting" for many refs, and the fraction of the time that such action resulted in a disallowed PK went up dramatically about 3-4 years ago, such that I have to assume UEFA made it a point of emphasis. The announcers were commenting all over the place around then that varying your run-up speed was fine, but you had to proceed in one continuous motion to the ball once you started - stopping completely would henceforth be considered a violation. It might not be a rule de jure, but it's a rule de facto.

No less than Leo Messi has gotten yellow carded for this:

This is because the line where many refs call it unsporting is when the keeper dives. That happened for Messi and not for Son.

Stopping is simply not black and white. And as I said the ref may not have been wrong in Son's case. But it's just more of a judgment call than you're saying.

Not really worth much back and forth because it didn't really matter in the long run.
 

Mugsy's Jock

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What's the best place to learn the starting XI first? Am excited to see if Son gets the nod over Lamela -- Son playing so well at Wembley I hope he gets meaningful run.
 

Jimy Hendrix

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I love the Son vs. Lamela question because it shows the kind of strength in depth Spurs are starting to have. Lamela presses like a demon, but Son is also pretty good at that. Son's in hot scoring form, but Lamela's creativity is also useful.

Such an improvement over a few years ago, when deciding between Chadli & Townsend or Mason & Carroll was less about emphasizing different strengths and more about what weaknesses you could live with to get certain attributes in for a game. There are still some choices like that (right back being one), but less so all over the pitch.
 

Schnerres

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What's the best place to learn the starting XI first? Am excited to see if Son gets the nod over Lamela -- Son playing so well at Wembley I hope he gets meaningful run.
I think 75mins before the start, the lineups have to be submitted to uefa. They will be released by them (75 or 60 mins before kickoff) at first and then reported from everybody else.
 

Zososoxfan

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I love the Son vs. Lamela question because it shows the kind of strength in depth Spurs are starting to have. Lamela presses like a demon, but Son is also pretty good at that. Son's in hot scoring form, but Lamela's creativity is also useful.

Such an improvement over a few years ago, when deciding between Chadli & Townsend or Mason & Carroll was less about emphasizing different strengths and more about what weaknesses you could live with to get certain attributes in for a game. There are still some choices like that (right back being one), but less so all over the pitch.
I really like Aurier, even if he's not consistent. Also, it's not clear to me that Alli should start. I think he will, but Son AND Lamela with Eriksen and Alli on the bench is a real possibility.
 

Jimy Hendrix

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I like Aurier too, and I think there's a good chance Poch coaches him into being an excellent all-around option ala his work with Walker, but he does have his notable weaknesses (bonehead moments, inconsistent crossing) to go along with his strengths.
 

Kliq

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I'm going to do my best to completely ignore this game while I'm working and only checking the score around 5:30 p.m. and hopefully watching the highlights when I get home.

It's going to be tough, though.
 

Zososoxfan

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Yes that was a pen, but so was Chiellini's handball. Juve getting away with lots of shirt tugs in defense. Spurs spent tons of energy that half and needed that goal. Juve have only looked dangerous a handful of times, mostly Costa breaking down the right flank, on crosses, and on the break when their defense can break the press. Kane is dropping deep to help Eriksen initiate the offense and both Dele and Son are running all over the place. Trippier is having a terrific match and so is Sanchez. Vert looks shaky and needs to be careful, Moose covers so many mistakes in the MF. Dier likely coming off at some point this half.
 

Zososoxfan

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Didn't finish like big boys and Davies really couldn't hang for anywhere near the full 90. Poch way too slow on the trigger with subs. Disappointing.
 

eddiew112

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Davies and Trippier are solid players, but they don't belong at that level. After that first goal Poch needed to make a change to counter Juve going 4-4-2. Not good enough from him.

That game should be mandatory watching for the fans talking themselves into letting Toby walk without a replacement.
 

Zososoxfan

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Davies and Trippier are solid players, but they don't belong at that level. After that first goal Poch needed to make a change to counter Juve going 4-4-2. Not good enough from him.

That game should be mandatory watching for the fans talking themselves into letting Toby walk without a replacement.
I thought Trip was fine throughout. Davies had a terrific first half but it was abundantly clear he was gassed from 60' on. If there were no other options on the bench I'd have dismissed it, but Poch has legitimate backup options at both FB. Inexcusable managing even if Poch didn't keep Dybala on by 10 yards unnecessarily himself.
 

Kliq

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Fuck. At least I didn’t watch the game live. Got out of work at 430; pulled into the driveway at 5:15 and whipped out my phone to check the score; just fucking devastating man.
 

Gunfighter 09

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Nice recovery win. Dele had a hell of a game today.

So now our annual "I hope Kane's ankle isn't that bad" ritual begins. Hopefully they can get by Swansea in the FA cup without him and he will be fit for this year's shitshow at the Bridge on Easter.
 

eddiew112

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Dele and Eriksen were both excellent, and it was great to see us take our chances in front of goal. On to Swansea
 

coremiller

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Easy win over Swansea in the FA cup quarters. Man Utd and Chelsea are still alive so the semis and finals would be tough matchups depending on the draw.

Onto the international break. First game back is the league fixture at Stamford Bridge, where Spurs haven't won in something like 30 years. Even a draw there would be a good result and leave Chelsea with a tough climb to beat Spurs to fourth.

Of course the X factor is Kane's injury.
 

eddiew112

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Eriksen, Lamela, and Lucas were excellent today. I still can't believe we got Lucas at that price. His combination of pace and trickery adds a whole new dimension to our attack.
 

Zososoxfan

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Immense win today. Very nice to see the squad perform against a top opponent with minimal Kane involvement. Eriksen has been so consistent for the past month or two and Dele obviously showed up huge today. What else can you say about Sonny? He's the straw that stirs the drink doing everything for this team. Now that we're here, I really want to push MANU down to 4th. I don't mind Liverpool but MANU can suck it and deal with the playoff.

One last thing - it's so sad we'll probably never get to see Poch experiment with a bona fide 3 at the back formation with Sanchez-Toby-Jan.
 

veritas

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Dele was huge today, but Erikson was on another level. You could argue his goal wasn't even his best play of the day, the pass to Son on the 3rd was unreal. Perfect one-touch through ball
 

Kliq

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The Juventus loss still stings but so far a very enjoyable season. The EPL is certainly better this year than they were last season, so qualifying for CL is a good accomplishment. It was very good to see them remain in form with Kane on the mend; hopefully he is back up to 100 percent and they can still win a trophy this season.
 

Mugsy's Jock

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Dele was huge today, but Erikson was on another level. You could argue his goal wasn't even his best play of the day, the pass to Son on the 3rd was unreal. Perfect one-touch through ball
That was Dier to Dele, no?

Edit: Though in any event, I would agree that that pass was a lost play in the game -- never got a great replay, and I remember only being able to guess it was Dier who released the through ball by process of elimination (didn't look like Moussa or Sanchez or Son, too small to be Jan, too right-footed to be Davies, saw Eriksen and Trippier and Lamela on other parts of the pitch... that leaves Dier!)
 
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veritas

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That was Dier to Dele, no?

Edit: Though in any event, I would agree that that pass was a lost play in the game -- never got a great replay, and I remember only being able to guess it was Dier who released the through ball by process of elimination (didn't look like Moussa or Sanchez or Son, too small to be Jan, too right-footed to be Davies, saw Eriksen and Trippier and Lamela on other parts of the pitch... that leaves Dier!)
Dier made the great pass to Dele for the 2nd goal. The pass to Son to spring that crazy break on third goal was Eriksen I think. Let me try to find a video.

edit: (around 2:20 if it doesn't automatically start there)
 

DJnVa

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My favorite part of that video is right after the 3rd goal watch Lamela.

Before he celebrates he tells at Son for not playing the ball to him.
 

DJnVa

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With Liverpool's boring 0-0 draw today, Spurs can draw even on points with them with a game in hand and maybe within a point of ManU depending on how that derby goes.

Oh, and Harry's back in starting XI.
 

Zososoxfan

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Harry looked very rusty today. Eriksen is a beast and so is Jan - huge match from him. Rose was a pest but also ineffective. Very much behind Trippier. Moose had a great game and Wanyama was acceptable. Spurs very lucky not to give one up late with a 5v2 that Stoke screwed up terribly. Also, Shaqiri had a ridiculous FK hit the corner crossbar/post. I guess just take the points and keep on trucking.
 

coremiller

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Spurs have now won six league games in a row and are unbeaten in 14 matches in the league since losing to City at the Etihad in December.
 

Jimy Hendrix

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Lloris is having a bad run of form.

I still think he's damn good, but I worry that he's entering the "Belichick would replace him a year early" stage of his career.
 

DJnVa

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He's given up 5 goals in his last 6 games and today was unlucky with the bounce.

He hasn't given up more than 1 goal to any team outside of of Juventus in 2 months, and if you go back to beginning of the calendar year, you can add Liverpool to that, but that's it.
 

DJnVa

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The second goal against Stoke has now been awarded to Kane by the PL review board.
 

scott bankheadcase

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Moral of the story being be English and whine and whine and hold your breath until the League gives in.

Lost a lot of respect for Kane over this.
I mean I guess.... he says he touched it, Eriksen says he's all good with it, there's decent video evidence he touched it:



I think he shouldn't have challenged it (though it might effect his compensation, which is a legit reason to appeal), but liverpool fans will find anything to complain about. You beat Man City to move on in the Champions league yesterday, get a final four match against real, Bayern or roma! But screw tottenham's goal vs. stoke? Is there any evidence that being english is what got it awarded to him? Is there anytime it's ok to appeal in this process that has been setup for appeal?
 

Kliq

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Moral of the story being be English and whine and whine and hold your breath until the League gives in.

Lost a lot of respect for Kane over this.
You already have a thread to complain about this. Did you lose more respect for him today or when he “dived” in the Liverpool game? We are dying to know.
 

Mighty Joe Young

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You already have a thread to complain about this. Did you lose more respect for him today or when he “dived” in the Liverpool game? We are dying to know.
Both

Look .. I don't think Captain Harry is showing much class here. He has put his own selfish interests ahead of his teammates. Sure .. Erickson says he's OK with it .. what else is he going to say?

As for diving .. he, himself said he dived .. "I put my foot in, felt the contact and went down"

But then, most strikers do that I suppose.
 
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Mighty Joe Young

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I mean I guess.... he says he touched it, Eriksen says he's all good with it, there's decent video evidence he touched it:



I think he shouldn't have challenged it (though it might effect his compensation, which is a legit reason to appeal), but liverpool fans will find anything to complain about. You beat Man City to move on in the Champions league yesterday, get a final four match against real, Bayern or roma! But screw tottenham's goal vs. stoke? Is there any evidence that being english is what got it awarded to him? Is there anytime it's ok to appeal in this process that has been setup for appeal?
My apologies over this. It was more or less a snide comment. (Probably should have left it in the Pool thread). And I don't have a problem if there's a financial incentive involved. But I do believe that English players are treated differently in the English press .. and I think that could have influenced things here. All speculation of course.

My first love is hockey .. so I'm overly impressed by athletes that show genuine humility and a team first attitude. Probably explains why I despise CR7.
 

scott bankheadcase

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My apologies over this. It was more or less a snide comment. (Probably should have left it in the Pool thread). And I don't have a problem if there's a financial incentive involved. But I do believe that English players are treated differently in the English press .. and I think that could have influenced things here. All speculation of course.

My first love is hockey .. so I'm overly impressed by athletes that show genuine humility and a team first attitude. Probably explains why I despise CR7.
Yeah I don’t even really disagree with your overall sentiment, I thought Kane had a whiff of desperation here that I don’t love. Just thought the overall reaction to the whole thing I’ve read in multiple places had been crazy overblown.