Top of the Ninth/Bottom of the Ninth, Game 7, Super World Series

glennhoffmania · Jun 8, 2015

For the Brewers, wouldn't you take Sabathia over Higuera? He wasn't there long but he was unreal for that partial season.

tims4wins · Jun 8, 2015

glennhoffmania said:
For the Brewers, wouldn't you take Sabathia over Higuera? He wasn't there long but he was unreal for that partial season.

I would make the same argument with the Astros and Randy Johnson

Ale Xander · Jun 8, 2015

1. This is heavily weighted towards RP's I think, since you only have one inning.

2. I'd take Bonds, and even Sandoval perhaps, over Mays for SF. And Thomas over Fisk for CWS.

2a. If I got CWS in some fantasy squared draft, I'd be pretty happy to take Wilhelm/Big Hurt

kenneycb · Jun 8, 2015

Halladay over Clemens for the Jays?

Toe Nash · Jun 8, 2015

1. If it's just one inning and you get them at their peak, I'd lean more towards short relievers than you have. You also didn't say anything about PEDs, so I'm going with Gagne for the Dodgers. 15.0 K/9 and just 4.0 H / 9 in 2003. I'd also go with 1990 Dennis Eckersley for the A's and maybe 2012 Craig Kimbrel for the Braves. There are probably others.

The caveat is that I bet someone like Nolan Ryan could be pretty dominant if he knew he just had to throw one inning. But, it's hard to tell how much more they'd be so I think you have to go with what actually happened.

2. If the bases are loaded and it's tied in the bottom of the ninth, I want someone with a great eye who can get a hit or a walk and I care less about who is the best overall hitter. A walk is as good as a home run or a double here. In some cases it's the same person (Bonds) but I might go with someone like Ichiro over Griffey or Ty Cobb over Kaline (Or even Boggs over Ortiz). I know they're going to give me a good AB and have a good shot at scratching out a hit or extending the AB. Plus, they may spoil pitches until there is a passed ball or wild pitch...

brs3 · Jun 8, 2015

Dennis Martinez might be a good pick over Jeff Reardon for the Nats/Expos.

Lose Remerswaal · Jun 8, 2015

The Reds pitcher is the one that has always amazed me. That's the reason I did the "GOAT for each team" series a few years ago. Even Reds fans, during the SoSH Cincy bash couldn't agree on who their best pitchers of all time was. But Rijo's name came up most often

curly2 · Jun 8, 2015

I agree with Toe Nash on short relievers. Saberhagen was great, but for this scenario, you might take Holland over him for one inning. But I don't care how great Gagne was when he was juicing, I'm still taking Koufax for the Dodgers.

Toe was also right over Cobb for Kaline. For the White Sox, it;s a tough call between the big hurt and Joe Jackson -- assuming he's not banned from this scenario.

Curtis Pride · Jun 8, 2015

For the Nationals, I would rather go with Bryce Harper than Tim Raines. If not him, there's Gary Carter and Andre Dawson. But with the bases loaded, a high-OBP hitter would get it done because simply drawing a walk would win the game.

With OBP in mind, Wade Boggs would be better than Ortiz, "clutch"-ness notwithstanding. And Ted Williams would be even better in that situation.

kenneycb · Jun 8, 2015

Curtis Pride said:
For the Nationals, I would rather go with Bryce Harper than Tim Raines. If not him, there's Gary Carter and Andre Dawson. But with the bases loaded, a high-OBP hitter would get it done because simply drawing a walk would win the game.

With OBP in mind, Wade Boggs would be better than Ortiz, "clutch"-ness notwithstanding. And Ted Williams would be even better in that situation.

Rusty Staub would be the only other candidate I could think of for the Nats/Expos.

SeanBerry · Jun 8, 2015

I have a huge issue with your Kirk Gibson pick for the Dodgers.

Better options include:
Duke Snider
Jackie Robinson
Mike Piazza
Matt Kemp
Shawn Green
Pedro Guerrero
Gil Hodges
Reggie Smith
Babe Herman
Gary Sheffield

For this exercise, OBP is of the most concern so I'd go with Jackie Robinson. Piazza and Snider are near misses and were both better hitters for the Dodgers but Robinson has the best bet at getting on base.

phrenile · Jun 8, 2015

Curtis Pride said:
With OBP in mind, Wade Boggs would be better than Ortiz, "clutch"-ness notwithstanding. And Ted Williams would be even better in that situation.

Williams is the answer, but Jimmie Foxx also edges Boggs in OBP, both career and Sox-only.

Toe Nash · Jun 8, 2015

It's not straight OBP though. The pitcher isn't going to give in and walk the batter. A lot of walks come from situations where the player is pitching around the hitter -- in this case that wouldn't happen. You almost want someone who rarely strikes out and has a very high BABIP, which is why I thought Boggs / Ichiro / Cobb. Robinson's a good pick due to his speed. Tony Gwynn might be the perfect hitter in this situation.

SeanBerry · Jun 8, 2015

Why would striking out matter all that much? An out is an out at this point. Bases loaded, 2 outs. It's not like moving runners over matters. This is pretty much an OBP exercise.

Toe Nash · Jun 8, 2015

SeanBerry said:
Why would striking out matter all that much? An out is an out at this point. Bases loaded, 2 outs. It's not like moving runners over matters. This is pretty much an OBP exercise.

I want the batter to put the ball in play. If he walks, yay, but I don't expect the pitcher to throw four balls -- it's a great pitcher on the other side, so he's not going to get wild.

My feeling is that a guy who can control the bat and has good contact skills is more likely to make decent contact when he's facing a HoF pitcher bearing down to try to get swings and misses. Failing that, I'd at least like to force the other team to make a play.

Brand Name · Jun 8, 2015

Angels
Pitcher: Troy Percival
Hitter: Mike Trout

Astros
Pitcher: Roger Clemens
Hitter: Jeff Bagwell

Athletics
Pitcher: Lefty Grove
Hitter: Jimmie Foxx

Blue Jays
Pitcher: Tom Henke
Hitter: Fred McGriff

Braves
Pitcher: Greg Maddux
Hitter: Rogers Hornsby. Amazing year in Boston, one year, 1928, but 202 OPS+, .387/.498/.632 slash line. Probably his best full year aside from 1922. I just need a guy to reach base here, given the score is tied, so this seems seems like an odd pick, but I like it.

Brewers
Pitcher: CC Sabathia
Hitter: Ryan Braun

Cardinals
Pitcher: Cy Young
Hitter: Mark McGwire

Cubs
Pitcher: John Clarkson
Hitter: Hack Wilson

Diamondbacks
Pitcher: Randy Johnson
Hitter: Paul Goldschmidt

Dodgers
Pitcher: Clayton Kershaw
Hitter: Mike Piazza

Giants
Pitcher: Christy Matthewson-obligatory. My favorite player in the game's history.
Hitter: Barry Bonds

Indians
Pitcher: Addie Joss
Hitter: Shoeless Joe Jackson

Marlins
Pitcher: Josh Johnson
Hitter: Gary Sheffield

Mariners
Pitcher: Cliff Lee: His partial year there in 2010 is vastly underrated.
Hitter: Edgar Martinez

Mets
Pitcher: Tom Seaver
Hitter: Daryl Strawberry

Nationals
Pitcher: Pedro Martinez
Hitter: Rusty Staub

Orioles
Pitcher: Hoyt Wilhelm, bizzarely one of only two Hall of Famers to hit a grand slam in his first plate appearance.
Hitter: Frank Robinson

Padres
Pitcher: Trevor Hoffman
Hitter: Tony Gwynn

Phillies
Pitcher: Grover Cleveland Alexander
Hitter: Ed Delahanty. This was the hardest pick yet, between him and Billy Hamilton I. Both insanely talented players, but here I choose some power over the speed, which I figure is less vital in a tie ballgame.

Pirates
Pitcher: Goose Gossage, another beneficiary of the one year with the team deal here. In 1977, he had a 2.50 FIP, 0.96 WHIP, 10.2K/9, 244 ERA+, 3.08K:BB. You get the picture.
Hitter: Honus Wagner

Rangers
Pitcher: Yu Darvish
Hitter: Alex Rodriguez

Rays
Pitcher: David Price
Hitter: Evan Longoria

Reds
Pitcher: John Franco
Hitter: Joe Morgan

Red Sox
Pitcher: Pedro Martinez
Hitter: Ted Williams, despite my heart crying for David Ortiz here.

Rockies
Pitcher: Ubaldo Jimenez
Hitter: Larry Walker

Royals
Pitcher: Dan Quisenberry
Hitter: George Brett

Tigers
Pitcher: Hal Newhouser (NOT Jack Morris)
Hitter: Ty Cobb

Twins
Pitcher: Walter Johnson
Hitter: Harmon Killebrew

White Sox
Pitcher: Ed Walsh
Hitter: Frank Thomas

Yankees
Pitcher: Mariano Rivera

Hitter: Babe Ruth

SeanBerry · Jun 8, 2015

Toe Nash said:
I want the batter to put the ball in play. If he walks, yay, but I don't expect the pitcher to throw four balls -- it's a great pitcher on the other side, so he's not going to get wild.

My feeling is that a guy who can control the bat and has good contact skills is more likely to make decent contact when he's facing a HoF pitcher bearing down to try to get swings and misses. Failing that, I'd at least like to force the other team to make a play.

This logic doesn't really hold any water.

You want the batter to put the ball in play? But don't you ultimately want the batter to get on base? Not only that but if a slow batter has a batting average of .350 and a fast guy is .320, who cares how he got his hit? Or better yet on base considering any way on base wins the game.

SeanBerry · Jun 8, 2015

Seattle Pilots

Pitcher: Diego Segui. (Tough call over Bob Locker and John Gelnar but Segui was a good pitcher and threw more innings. Plus his splits as a reliever are even better.
Hitter: Mike Hegan (His OBP is too tough to ignore. Don Mincher in 2nd place)

phrenile · Jun 8, 2015

Toe Nash said:
I want the batter to put the ball in play. If he walks, yay, but I don't expect the pitcher to throw four balls -- it's a great pitcher on the other side, so he's not going to get wild.

My feeling is that a guy who can control the bat and has good contact skills is more likely to make decent contact when he's facing a HoF pitcher bearing down to try to get swings and misses. Failing that, I'd at least like to force the other team to make a play.

You want any result that doesn't involve an out. Unless you think some batters are better at inducing wild pitches or worse at avoiding pickoffs of the the other guys, you want OBP.

EddieYost · Jun 8, 2015

glennhoffmania said:
For the Brewers, wouldn't you take Sabathia over Higuera? He wasn't there long but he was unreal for that partial season.

How about Rollie Fingers for the Brewers?

kieckeredinthehead · Jun 8, 2015

I think you have to consider 2013 Koji for three outs..

WHIP: 0.565; K/BB: 11.22; ERA+: 379; FIP: 1.61; HR/9: 0.6

Pedro's single-season career bests (Boston and otherwise, though they're all from Boston):
WHIP: 0.737; K/BB: 8.88; ERA+: 291; FIP: 1.61; HR/9: 0.3

Just a bit outside · Jun 8, 2015

Lose Remerswaal said:
The Reds pitcher is the one that has always amazed me. That's the reason I did the "GOAT for each team" series a few years ago. Even Reds fans, during the SoSH Cincy bash couldn't agree on who their best pitchers of all time was. But Rijo's name came up most often

I think you would have to go with Chapman for one inning.

Savin Hillbilly · Jun 8, 2015

Curtis Pride said:
For the Nationals, I would rather go with Bryce Harper than Tim Raines. If not him, there's Gary Carter and Andre Dawson. But with the bases loaded, a high-OBP hitter would get it done because simply drawing a walk would win the game.

Raines was the best OBP guy of the ones you mention, so if a high-OBP hitter gets it done, why don't you want him?

SumnerH · Jun 8, 2015

I think Musial is the right pick, and that's amazing given that Pujols is an option. I take Stan but I wouldn't argue with someone who went with Albert.

Toe Nash · Jun 9, 2015

phrenile said:
You want any result that doesn't involve an out. Unless you think some batters are better at inducing wild pitches or worse at avoiding pickoffs of the the other guys, you want OBP.

1. I already talked about why OBP is misleading. Unless you think pitchers will pitch the same way in this situation as they would early in the game with a base open. Again, the hitter with the best OBP may be the one I'd want up there, but I'd strongly discount the chance of a walk. How much, I'm not sure.
2. Guys who foul off a lot of pitches may be more likely to get a wild pitch by making the pitcher throw more pitches. I concede that this is a very minimal chance.

lexrageorge · Jun 9, 2015

Toe Nash said:
1. I already talked about why OBP is misleading. Unless you think pitchers will pitch the same way in this situation as they would early in the game with a base open. Again, the hitter with the best OBP may be the one I'd want up there, but I'd strongly discount the chance of a walk. How much, I'm not sure.
2. Guys who foul off a lot of pitches may be more likely to get a wild pitch by making the pitcher throw more pitches. I concede that this is a very minimal chance.

1.) Dennis Eckersley, Mike Davis, and Kirk Gibson say "hi". Granted, the situations are not completely analogous, but Eck had walked only 11 batters that year, and had no desire to walk Davis either. Sometimes, things happen.

2.) Bob Stanley says "hi".

Leather · Jun 9, 2015

For the Twins, anyone other than Killebrew is flat-out insane. Look at his 1969 season!

And Mauer would be #2.

Comfortably Lomb · Jun 9, 2015

kieckeredinthehead said:
I think you have to consider 2013 Koji for three outs..

WHIP: 0.565; K/BB: 11.22; ERA+: 379; FIP: 1.61; HR/9: 0.6

Pedro's single-season career bests (Boston and otherwise, though they're all from Boston):
WHIP: 0.737; K/BB: 8.88; ERA+: 291; FIP: 1.61; HR/9: 0.3

Given the decline in offense and how relievers seem a little more prone to freak show numbers in their best seasons, I don't see how you pick Koji. Pitch for pitch, in-his-prime Pedro the closer would probably be even filthier than Pedro the starter.

kieckeredinthehead · Jun 9, 2015

Comfortably Lomb said:
Given the decline in offense and how relievers seem a little more prone to freak show numbers in their best seasons, I don't see how you pick Koji. Pitch for pitch, in-his-prime Pedro the closer would probably be even filthier than Pedro the starter.

Given that ERA+ accounts for the differences in offense is how.

ivanvamp · Jun 10, 2015

I'd take 2013 Koji for one inning over any other Red Sox pitcher in history. Even.....Pedro. Two reasons:

1. Koji is used to that situation. That's his job. Late-inning reliever. It's how he warms up, he's comfortable there, etc.

2. Koji 2013 vs. Pedro 2000:

Koji: 1.09 era, 0.57 whip, 11.2 k/9
Pedro: 1.74 era, 0.74 whip, 11.8 k/9

I mean, I'm not sure any other human being outside Pedro's family loves him more than me, but given the situation described in the OP, I'd go with 2013 Koji over Pedro even at Pedro's peak. Obviously, if I'm building a team or need a guy to go more than one inning, I'd take Pedro. But for that one inning? Koji.

The hitter has to be Ted Williams. In the scenario described, you don't need a hit. The bases are loaded, so you just need a run. You need the best OBP guy possible. Ted's *career* OBP was .482 (.491 vs. RHP). His career best OBP was in 1941, at an unfathomable .553. That means that with him up there, there's a better than 55% chance you win the game. Ortiz was very clutch, but you don't need a homer (not that Ted was shabby at that either). You just need him to get on base somehow.

Moreover, if you're not going to get on base by walk or hit, you need to put the ball in play, preferably *hard*. A double play is taken out of the equation (the OP says there are two outs). So you don't care if it's a hard ground ball. Just something hard. Putting the ball in play increases the chances of an error, obviously, which will also win you the game.

Take away walks, and hits, and Ted put the ball in play on 86.0% of his times at bat. Ortiz on only 71.2%.

So 2013 Koji and 1941 Ted. That's the correct answer for Boston.

Was (Not Wasdin) · Jun 10, 2015

EddieYost said:
How about Rollie Fingers for the Brewers?

I was coming to post this but you beat me to it. 1981 Rollie was pretty solid. .872 Whip and .198 BAA give you a decent chance to get out of the inning.

drleather2001 said:
For the Twins, anyone other than Killebrew is flat-out insane. Look at his 1969 season!

And Mauer would be #2.

I'd go with Mauer, but I don't think you would be wrong with Killebrew either. I'd also add Rod Carew into the mix.

I looked up Lyman Bostock as well. He was a much better hitter than I had remembered. OPS of .812 over his three seasons with the Twins.

AB in DC · Jun 20, 2015

brs3 said:
Dennis Martinez might be a good pick over Jeff Reardon for the Nats/Expos.

Scherzer.

jose melendez · Jun 21, 2015

For the NAts/Expos, there might be a case for Zimmermann hitting if you believe in clutch.

BrunanskysSlide · Jun 21, 2015

I'm going to choose my second and third favorite franchises:

The Astros: 1987 Dave Smith; 1994 Bagwell.
The Mariners: 1995 Johnson; a lot of people here would say Griffey, but I'm going with 2004 Suzuki for that scenario.

Papelbon's Poutine · Jun 22, 2015

brs3 said:
Dennis Martinez might be a good pick over Jeff Reardon for the Nats/Expos.

I'd take Pedro over either.

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