Here at the halfway point of the season, and with an off day, I thought it'd be fun to do something that Cafardo and now Abraham did and do from time to time. I'm curious to see other poster's thoughts on this. Have fun and be thoughtful.
Top 20 Most Important people in Red Sox Organization
- Thread starter Cassvt2023
- Start date
1) Marcelo Mayer: #4 overall pick at one of most important positions on the field. leadership qualities abound.
2) Kyle Teel: A catcher who has the hit tool that he does is rare in today's game. Potential true two way player.
3) Raffy Devers: Here for the next 10 years in theory. Elite hit tool. Middle of lineup presence.
4) Craig Breslow: His decisions going forward will determine if this team is a perennial playoff contender.
5) Roman Anthony: Elite prospect, great hit tool, potential cornerstone player, still only 20 yrs old
6) Tanner Houck: Potential ace of staff. Nasty stuff, great makeup. Should be talking extension with him.
7) Tristan Casas: Potential to be a threat in the middle of lineup for years to come. Takes every at bat like its his last. OBP monster.
8) Jarren Duran: See 1st half of this year. Dynamic player, spark plug at top of the batting order.
9) Christian Campbell: Rocketing up thru the minors since being drafted just last year. By all accounts hits the ball VERY hard. Exciting prospect.
10) Andrew Bailey: If he can continue to be in Breslow's ear about the type of pitcher he van get the most out of, that is very valuable.
11) Miguel Bleis: potential 5 tool guy down the road. Much needed RH power bat in the system. The sky is the limit.
12) Luis Perales: TJ setback is a bummer, but was looking like the real deal before the injury. top of rotation type stuff.
13) Brayan Bello: cost controlled mid rotation SP. Struggled lately but young and talented enough to figure it out. He seems to care and want to be great.
14) Ceddanne Rafaela: Elite CF. Great speed on bases. Has a knack for the big moment. hope he figures out pitch recognition.
15) Richard Fitts: Potential middle of the rotation starter. Would be great to steal a future rotation piece from the Yankees.
16) Kutter Crawford: A bit on the older side for this list, but has shown that he is a major league SP and he is cost controlled.
17) John Henry: How they spend their $$ going forward is largely dictated by this man.
18) Wilkelman Gonzalez: Great stuff, just hasn't put it together. May end up being a shutdown bullpen arm if he can locate his pitches.
19) Alex Cora: Very good manager of people. Holds players accountable. But will he be here past this year?
20) Zach Penrod: A LHP SP would be great for this organization to continue to develop.
2) Kyle Teel: A catcher who has the hit tool that he does is rare in today's game. Potential true two way player.
3) Raffy Devers: Here for the next 10 years in theory. Elite hit tool. Middle of lineup presence.
4) Craig Breslow: His decisions going forward will determine if this team is a perennial playoff contender.
5) Roman Anthony: Elite prospect, great hit tool, potential cornerstone player, still only 20 yrs old
6) Tanner Houck: Potential ace of staff. Nasty stuff, great makeup. Should be talking extension with him.
7) Tristan Casas: Potential to be a threat in the middle of lineup for years to come. Takes every at bat like its his last. OBP monster.
8) Jarren Duran: See 1st half of this year. Dynamic player, spark plug at top of the batting order.
9) Christian Campbell: Rocketing up thru the minors since being drafted just last year. By all accounts hits the ball VERY hard. Exciting prospect.
10) Andrew Bailey: If he can continue to be in Breslow's ear about the type of pitcher he van get the most out of, that is very valuable.
11) Miguel Bleis: potential 5 tool guy down the road. Much needed RH power bat in the system. The sky is the limit.
12) Luis Perales: TJ setback is a bummer, but was looking like the real deal before the injury. top of rotation type stuff.
13) Brayan Bello: cost controlled mid rotation SP. Struggled lately but young and talented enough to figure it out. He seems to care and want to be great.
14) Ceddanne Rafaela: Elite CF. Great speed on bases. Has a knack for the big moment. hope he figures out pitch recognition.
15) Richard Fitts: Potential middle of the rotation starter. Would be great to steal a future rotation piece from the Yankees.
16) Kutter Crawford: A bit on the older side for this list, but has shown that he is a major league SP and he is cost controlled.
17) John Henry: How they spend their $$ going forward is largely dictated by this man.
18) Wilkelman Gonzalez: Great stuff, just hasn't put it together. May end up being a shutdown bullpen arm if he can locate his pitches.
19) Alex Cora: Very good manager of people. Holds players accountable. But will he be here past this year?
20) Zach Penrod: A LHP SP would be great for this organization to continue to develop.
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This will be interesting. I actually didn’t include players…was thinking more from RS org itself so maybe disregard
1) Breslow (makes all the team decisions akaik)
2) JWH (now a miserly old bastard that controls the coinpurse)
3) Cora (sets the pace on and off the field)
4-19) Everyone else
20) Sam ‘the fall guy’ Kennedy (designated whipping post)
You mentioned thoughtful, and I recognize my reply is a bit glib, but I’m honestly not sure who is really differentiated beyond that group. They’ve been a 500 team for years now so nobody gets to bang the drum too loudly, aside from Breslow kicking ass.
With all due respect, this doesn't square with your second post. Why have you ranked the people the way you did? That's where the meat of this discussion is.
Fair question. I was going to put my reasoning next to each one, but figured it may be worth it to wait until others posted and then the discussions could start. You are welcome to do it however you'd like. I will say that I had a hard time leaving out Wilyer Abreu and Conner Wong.
Good, cost-controlled pitching is the most valuable commodity in baseball. I don’t know how Tanner Houck wouldn’t be #1
Mayer? That's hilarious.
The most important players are pitchers, too many questions to mention.
On the field each day it's Devers, Duran, and Rafaela. Also Casas. Let's pray they stay healthy.
In the office I guess it's Breslo and Bailey.
Most of the prospects on that list won't matter a at all.
The most important players are pitchers, too many questions to mention.
On the field each day it's Devers, Duran, and Rafaela. Also Casas. Let's pray they stay healthy.
In the office I guess it's Breslo and Bailey.
Most of the prospects on that list won't matter a at all.
Good point, i may have him a couple spots too low. He is 28 in two days, almost all the players I listed are younger than that.
FWIW, I've gone and edited in my comments on the majority of my list. Also, I may have been very shortsighted to leave Bello of this list, probably recency bias due to his bad stretch. He is very important going forward.
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1. Devers
2. Houck
3. Breslow
4. Rafaela
5. Duran
6, Casas
7. Henry
8. Bailey
9. Mayer
10. Teel
11. Bello
12. Anthony
13. Bleis
14. Wong
15. Wikelman
16. Perales
17. Cora
18. Ferreira
19. Monegro
20. Romero
2. Houck
3. Breslow
4. Rafaela
5. Duran
6, Casas
7. Henry
8. Bailey
9. Mayer
10. Teel
11. Bello
12. Anthony
13. Bleis
14. Wong
15. Wikelman
16. Perales
17. Cora
18. Ferreira
19. Monegro
20. Romero
Solid list @Ale Xander Thanks for joining in. I've edited a couple of my guys after more thought, as well as gone and put my reasoning behind them. I hope more people join in on this off day.
I've gone ahead and put my comments next to my list. I've also tweaked it a bit. I'm curious to see yours.
1a. Craig Breslow - Driving the bus
1b. Andrew Bailey - The 'pitching machinery' that Bailey is building with Breslow is already showing signs of positivity and while we may be rushing to anoint a savior, it sure looks good so far
3. JWH - as a proxy for ownership as a whole, but Breslow can only drive the bus on the roads ownership allows with the gas money they budget for.
4. Cora - He sets the day to day tone in the clubhouse and ultimately is responsible for the on field performance. Lame duck contact or no, what happens in his chair for next year will be interesting.
5. Devers - He's the 'veteran leader with the big contract' now - Is he going to be more like Ortiz or more like Manny?
6. Rafaela - Got the wunderkind contract, his elite defense will ripple through the lineup depending on where the bat plays to.
7. Houck - Diamond in the rough pitcher, could be an ace, could be a mid rotation D-Lowe type. (see also Bello, Brayan but maybe further down the list since he's already signed longer term).
8. Duran - Is the turn around real (I thnk so) - turning into a leader in the club house from all reports. Great story regardless
9. Casas - By golly do we need some power in the lineup. Could be a cornerstone in the middle of the order for a long time
Would have to really think hard to organize the next 11 but it's some combo of Mayer, Teel, Anthony, Bleis, and others on the depth chart.
1b. Andrew Bailey - The 'pitching machinery' that Bailey is building with Breslow is already showing signs of positivity and while we may be rushing to anoint a savior, it sure looks good so far
3. JWH - as a proxy for ownership as a whole, but Breslow can only drive the bus on the roads ownership allows with the gas money they budget for.
4. Cora - He sets the day to day tone in the clubhouse and ultimately is responsible for the on field performance. Lame duck contact or no, what happens in his chair for next year will be interesting.
5. Devers - He's the 'veteran leader with the big contract' now - Is he going to be more like Ortiz or more like Manny?
6. Rafaela - Got the wunderkind contract, his elite defense will ripple through the lineup depending on where the bat plays to.
7. Houck - Diamond in the rough pitcher, could be an ace, could be a mid rotation D-Lowe type. (see also Bello, Brayan but maybe further down the list since he's already signed longer term).
8. Duran - Is the turn around real (I thnk so) - turning into a leader in the club house from all reports. Great story regardless
9. Casas - By golly do we need some power in the lineup. Could be a cornerstone in the middle of the order for a long time
Would have to really think hard to organize the next 11 but it's some combo of Mayer, Teel, Anthony, Bleis, and others on the depth chart.
There's no way that Henry isn't first on this list. Then Breslow. Then Werner (though I could be talked into bumping him up over Breslow) followed by Cora, maybe next is Eddie Romero or another front office person. Then Bailey. Then a player, probably Devers. No prospect, who hasn't seen/thrown a pitch should be in the top ten.
1. Henry
2. Werner
3. Breslow
4. Cora
5. Romero (or other top FO type)
6. Bailey
7. Devers
8. Casas
9. Rest of ML roster is fungible (put your favorites where you want)
10. Coaching staff
11. Pitching prospects
12. Hitting prospects
The way I interpreted this question, BTW, is if someone on this list was to get run over by a bus whose impact would be felt the most. Prospects are whatever, we have absolutely no idea how good they're going to be so we're just wishcasting that ATM are going to be Hall of Famers or perennial all-stars. They've had zero impact on the big league club and if something happened to each of them today (maybe arguing about who the greatest English Prime Minister is) it would have no effect on the big league club. It would suck and there would always be an air of "what could have been?" but at the end of the day, their absence wouldn't really move the needle.
But if John Henry was hit by a bus, this team would have some very serious questions to answer that could alter the foreseeable future of the Sox.
1. Henry
2. Werner
3. Breslow
4. Cora
5. Romero (or other top FO type)
6. Bailey
7. Devers
8. Casas
9. Rest of ML roster is fungible (put your favorites where you want)
10. Coaching staff
11. Pitching prospects
12. Hitting prospects
The way I interpreted this question, BTW, is if someone on this list was to get run over by a bus whose impact would be felt the most. Prospects are whatever, we have absolutely no idea how good they're going to be so we're just wishcasting that ATM are going to be Hall of Famers or perennial all-stars. They've had zero impact on the big league club and if something happened to each of them today (maybe arguing about who the greatest English Prime Minister is) it would have no effect on the big league club. It would suck and there would always be an air of "what could have been?" but at the end of the day, their absence wouldn't really move the needle.
But if John Henry was hit by a bus, this team would have some very serious questions to answer that could alter the foreseeable future of the Sox.
Sam Kennedy is number one maybe not in our hearts or our eyes, but in making the key decisions.
Counterpoint:
If Devers got hit by a bus that would be a 100% negative for the next 5-10 years
If Henry or Werner got hit by a bus, I’m not so sure.
Explain.
As ghoulish as this sounds, you can replace a third baseman. Trades. Free agency. Prospects. It's hard to replace a billionaire.
Edit: Thurman Munson crashed his airplane on August 2 and Jerry Narron was behind the plate the next day. The Yanks made it to the World Series two years later.
Redbird Capital can still sign the checks
Bobby Dalbec 600 PA a year
And I like him more than anyone on this board
I've refrained from compiling a list because IMO the question is much too broad if we're lumping owners, management, staff, MLB players and MiL players, etc... into the mix. but I largely agree with how your list is structured.
Did every single other professional third baseman go away in some sort of 3B Thanos snap in your scenario?
And you want a private investment firm running your baseball team? I'd rather have Dalbec at third.
If Breslow needed money to sign a player or make a big trade, who do you think would be apt to give it to him: Henry/Werner or RBC?
They wouldn’t be the majority owner, would they?
You still have Linda (who would likely inherit his stake, right?) and the others
I might be reconsidering Devers below Henry.
The problem would be that Henry would not replace Devers (salary) with anything of consequence in bus crash scenario, while someone would quickly buy out JWHs shares and maybe that person would care about baseball not just maximizing ROI?
Preemptive FU to Sam Kennedy: just stfu he doesnt care.
Thanks for the updates. I don't know enough about the current Sox to contribute to this discussion, which is why I was hoping for some substance in the opening post. I'm sympathetic to the position that for the Sox, the argument for #1 really has to come down to JWH, Breslow, Bailey or Kennedy. I could be persuaded that Otahni is the most valuable person in the Dodgers organization, but I don't think even that's a slam dunk. Baseball is too much a team sport that I have to believe that the most inflluential person in assembling the roster is more instrumental to a team's long term success than the most influential player.
At some point, Tom Brady clearly established himself as the most important person in the Patriots organization (and the Bucs, for that matter). You'll get no arguments from me that Bill Belichick is a supremely skilled coach and the best person to run the Patriots for as long as he did (and that Bob Kraft deserves credit for creating and sustaining the environment that led to the dynasty), but there's simply no one more important than the greatest quarterback of all time. Brady was uniquely skilled at the most consequential position in football. For the Celtics, Mazz and especially PBS deserve all the recognition they've earned, but I'd be persuaded that the Celtics' best player is the most important person in their org. That's a harder case to make for a Major League Baseball team. And then if you were to make the case that the most important person is a player, parsing whether that player is a hitter or pitcher is difficult.
Are we underrating what we have in Duran here? Having a potential top 30ish position player that is cost controlled for another 4 years is incredibly valuable. The way he is playing now would be like a 90th percentile outcome for any of ATM.
Fangraphs puts out a trade value column every July and my guess would be he and maybe Houck would be the only names to appear on that list.
Fangraphs puts out a trade value column every July and my guess would be he and maybe Houck would be the only names to appear on that list.
Exactly. John Henry can be replaced by his wife. Try replacing Raffy Devers with his wife and see how that goes.
I had to look up some of these names and was absolutely shocked to see that Ollie Rothmann is the same Ollie I went to school with. I had no idea he worked for the Sox, really nice guy. But interesting takes for sure, the business development people are certainly key in creating the John Henry's Fenway Park Experience (TM).
FWIW I would argue there are more people with John Henry’s skill set in the world than Raffy Devers skill set. What Devers does is incredibly unique and very hard to replace. Like, maybe less than 10 people in the world could truly replace him. Billionaires grow on trees these days.Exactly. John Henry can be replaced by his wife. Try replacing Raffy Devers with his wife and see how that goes.
The 2-4 hitters in his lineup-Cora, Breslow and Bailey-do make a fine heart of the order in terms of baseball brains.
I thought you were going to say Sam is #1 that we want to be run over by a bus.