Tompa Bay: Tom Tom Club

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Maybe he was, maybe he wasn't. Maybe his 75% is still better than most 100%s. Maybe he was able to deal with outside variables efficiently and that was all just noise. Who the hell knows. Maybe sometimes shit just ends. Willie Mays plays for the Mets, Jordan plays for Washington, Gretzky plays for the Rangers. For 20 years to have occurred without one of those events happening is a testament to the folks who put these teams together and who played on these teams. That length of a career with one team is nearly unprecedented. During those times there were assuredly dings and dents as all relationships have. Sometimes crap just runs its course. Hell, if I was Brady I may have looked elsewhere. I'm loyal to a fault but you also only live once. It probably was not money, it probably was not a bump in a 20 year relationship. Maybe Brady just felt like leaving. That's the most likely answer by a rather significant magnitude. It's probably also the one that doesn't get headlines, so don't expect to get it in many places, particularly ESPN.
This is where I'm at. 20 years is a long time for any sort of working relationship. Joe Montana had to change teams. So did Unitas and Favre and Manning and Rivers and many many others. Jerry Rice left SF for crissakes. Aaron Rodgers looked to be trying to force his way out of GB this summer.
 
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lexrageorge

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I think all of the following can be true, and likely are:

1.) Brady felt that OTA's were not the best use of *his* time, given a growing set of family commitments and his familiarity with the Patriots offense. He's not wrong; the first session of OTA's they are not even allowed to talk to coaches beyond the strength and conditioning folks, IIRC.

2.) Brady may have also felt that the team could pay him more if they really needed him at OTA's to work with young receivers.

3.) Brady gave his usual 125% effort on the field once training camp started.

4.) The first 2 changed once he went to Tampa.

Yeah, but AB and Sanu were opportunity/panic moves that don't often work out. Expecting big production out of wide receivers signed mid season to a complex offense isn't a recipe for success.
Except Brown certainly was a special talent, one of the top 3 WR's in the league at the time of his release from the Raiders. He quickly ramped up to a 90-catch pace despite missing all of training camp and half the season after signing with Tampa due to the suspension. I think it's reasonable to assume he would have done similar here had he not royally screwed up.
 

Super Nomario

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I think all of the following can be true, and likely are:

1.) Brady felt that OTA's were not the best use of *his* time, given a growing set of family commitments and his familiarity with the Patriots offense. He's not wrong; the first session of OTA's they are not even allowed to talk to coaches beyond the strength and conditioning folks, IIRC.

2.) Brady may have also felt that the team could pay him more if they really needed him at OTA's to work with young receivers.

3.) Brady gave his usual 125% effort on the field once training camp started.

4.) The first 2 changed once he went to Tampa.
For the record, there weren't OTAs last year and Brady didn't attend OTAs this year either.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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The idea that we shouldn’t blame Belichick for wanting to move on is fine and all….but regardless of how he felt, it was Brady’s choice to move on! And he chose to do so. So just own that choice and don’t blame Belichick for forcing you to do what you did- especially when it has worked out so splendidly.

I guess things don’t usually end well, otherwise they wouldn’t end. Or whatever that stupid saying is.
 

joe dokes

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https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/09/23/sports/tom-brady-grateful-20-great-years-with-patriots-really-happy-be-with-buccaneers/

Anodyne Man speaks:

For his part, however, Brady made it clear that while he appreciated Guerrero’s support, he is still grateful for his time with the Patriots.
“I have great respect and admiration for my time there,” Brady said Thursday. “I had 20 great years there — I kind of spoke about that the last 18 months. It was a great time in my life. But I’m really happy to be here, and I think we’ve done some great things in a short period of time.
“I really love the teammates that I have that I’m playing with here. I love the players, love the coaches. The organization’s been amazing. Again, it’s just a lot of gratitude for me.”
Brady added that Guerrero — like many other friends and family members of athletes — was being protective.

“That’s just part of being in sports,” Brady said. “A lot of people who — because they’re not out there, they want to protect. It’s a very caring and loving thing that people do.

“But from my standpoint, I had a great time.”
 

Leather

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I think the reason it's annoying for NE fans to have Brady's entourage piping up due to Brady's success is that anyone paying attention knew the Patriots weren't going to be very good. It's being treated as some definitive capstone to the BB/TB legacies when it was the highly probable outcome. As was Tampa being good; maybe not Win the SB good, but I think most preseason rankings had them as NFC Champ contenders.

People have made the marriage analogy, but it's not quite apt. It would be like a mutual decision to leave, with the husband moving out and in with a rich girlfriend while the wife is left with $400,000 left on the mortgage in the old house. I mean, yeah, no shit the husband is having a better time. The husband's best buddy laughing at the wife while hanging out on the girlfriend's sailboat isn't exactly seemly.
 

Captaincoop

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I think the reason it's annoying for NE fans to have Brady's entourage piping up due to Brady's success is that anyone paying attention knew the Patriots weren't going to be very good. It's being treated as some definitive capstone to the BB/TB legacies when it was the highly probable outcome. As was Tampa being good; maybe not Win the SB good, but I think most preseason rankings had them as NFC Champ contenders.

People have made the marriage analogy, but it's not quite apt. It would be like a mutual decision to leave, with the husband moving out and in with a rich girlfriend while the wife is left with $400,000 left on the mortgage in the old house. I mean, yeah, no shit the husband is having a better time. The husband's best buddy laughing at the wife while hanging out on the girlfriend's sailboat isn't exactly seemly.
Also totally agree with all of this.
 

rodderick

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I think the reason it's annoying for NE fans to have Brady's entourage piping up due to Brady's success is that anyone paying attention knew the Patriots weren't going to be very good. It's being treated as some definitive capstone to the BB/TB legacies when it was the highly probable outcome. As was Tampa being good; maybe not Win the SB good, but I think most preseason rankings had them as NFC Champ contenders.

People have made the marriage analogy, but it's not quite apt. It would be like a mutual decision to leave, with the husband moving out and in with a rich girlfriend while the wife is left with $400,000 left on the mortgage in the old house. I mean, yeah, no shit the husband is having a better time. The husband's best buddy laughing at the wife while hanging out on the girlfriend's sailboat isn't exactly seemly.
I mean, it's a capstone on Brady's legacy. No one can say it was all Bill, he went to a new system and did it in his first year without an off-season. Don't think you'll be seeing "they went 11-5 with Cassel" arguments anymore. Now, obviously people take it to the ridiculous extreme of it being a capstone on Bill's legacy, which is garbage.

What I'll say is that had Tom gone 9-7 last year while Bill made the playoffs the blowback the other way would have been 10 times worse.
 

Jungleland

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I think the Bucs were a bit better than expected and the Pats a little worse, but there’s a fair bit of truth to that point. If 2006 us are shitting on Peyton vs Brady arguments when the former is throwing to Marvin Harrison and Dallas Clark, it feels less like excuse making to now point out that TB went from N’Keal Harry and Edelman on fumes to a literal top 10 pass catching corps of the modern era. I didn’t expect the score to be Champs vs 7-9, but it’s not much a stretch to say that Tom moved to the best situation for a QB in the entire league.

That said it’s obviously a little different in that BB is largely responsible for the situation in New England, both in terms of wideout crappiness and Brady wanting out. Ultimately I’m pretty much in step with Rodderick’s view - totally understandable that Brady’s legacy is even better after 20-21, and it’s within reason to dunk on Bill a bit, but shoveling dirt on the Belichick legacy already is completely absurd.
 

rodderick

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I can remember Paul Perillo saying last year that the whole "who was more responsible for the dynasty" argument, aside from being stupid and pointless, would never be settled because the time for it had passed. Brady was too old and Bill had too bad a team that you could come up with enough excuses for either guy to make a comparison meaningless. I agree with that take.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Let's not pretend that Brady was going to some sort of Space Jam uber-team. There were serious questions about how good Tampa Bay was going to be even after he signed there, and many, many outlets got ready to gleefully dump on Brady. Defector set up the Brady crud-o-meter regular feature FFS. They were DYING to dance on his football grave.

Everything looks inevitable in hindsight. In reality there was tremendous doubt that Brady could be great in Tampa.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Didn't the Pats make basically the same offer as Tampa? I guess we'll never fully know the truth, but in my mind, Brady wanted nothing to do with a reload/rebuild that had to happen in New England, so he jumped to the best possible situation for him and it worked. Congrats, but also STFU.

Meanwhile, Belichick stayed in NE for the rebuild, which I appreciate and am rooting for.

But one thing to remember is that Brady wasn't going to have a 50-TD Super Bowl season in New England. He walked into a perfect situation in Tampa that became even more perfect when Gronk decided to conveniently unretire and force his way to Tampa, and Tampa was willing to sign Antonio Brown as well. Suddenly Brady was mister commitment again, recruiting free agents, mentoring young players, and showing up to voluntary training again.

Edit: I should have said "consider", not remember, because who knows for sure what would have happened.
This is it right here.

The best move for Tom Brady and the NEP after the 2019 season was for Brady to leave (which he was doing anyway). If they resigned Brady, 2020 would have been just as bad, if not worse, because not only would he have had nobody to work with on offense (like 2019), signing him would have meant stripping an already depleted team talent-wise to no-talent levels. To resign Brady would have meant making the team worse around him than 2019, and there was no way he was sticking around for that.

From the Pats perspective, they also had to move on. What good would it have been to go 9-7 or 8-8 last year, with no ability to get better. They needed to eliminate Brady's contract and hope they hit a QB on a rookie deal in the draft, in order to speed up the rebuild that was inevitably coming.

Brady leaving was the best move at the time for the Pats and for Tom Brady, and everything else is Felger level revisionist bullshit.
 

Van Everyman

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Let's not pretend that Brady was going to some sort of Space Jam uber-team. There were serious questions about how good Tampa Bay was going to be even after he signed there, and many, many outlets got ready to gleefully dump on Brady. Defector set up the Brady crud-o-meter regular feature FFS. They were DYING to dance on his football grave.

Everything looks inevitable in hindsight. In reality there was tremendous doubt that Brady could be great in Tampa.
That's a great point -- but it also is pretty clear he had a killer set of tools to work with, despite what the media was saying. And, they looked pretty crappy for the first 2/3 of the season. Then Tom did what Tom does, and, well ...

For my part, I keep coming back to that clip of Brady stumbling around after throwing the Lombardi from boat to boat in TB. The most successful athlete of his generation acting like a dumbass college freshman in public says something to me about the release he felt getting out of NE. Was that part of what made him want to leave -- or did he just realize it after the facct? I suspect the latter but have no idea. But the sense of freedom he (and Gronk) have both seemed to feel since coming to Tampa is palpable.
 

NickEsasky

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What would it rate on the sports Richter Scale if after Sunday's game Belichick said "we're on to Brady" in the press conference?
 

BigSoxFan

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What would it rate on the sports Richter Scale if after Sunday's game Belichick said "we're on to Brady" in the press conference?
If there were ever a week for Belichick to let his guard down, I wish it would be this one. But he'll obviously go the other way and will go completely in the opposite direction. We could get some hilarious quotes this week either way. He's going to be so crabby and I can't wait.
 

rodderick

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If there were ever a week for Belichick to let his guard down, I wish it would be this one. But he'll obviously go the other way and will go completely in the opposite direction. We could get some hilarious quotes this week either way. He's going to be so crabby and I can't wait.
I think he'll give us nothing pregame, but if the Pats win I do expect some barbs.
 

Willie Clay's Big Play

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DennyDoyle'sBoil

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There is an outside chance that going into the game Brady will have thrown more touchdown passes through three games this season than the Patriots have thrown since he left. The chances go up if you limit the question to passes thrown by Patriot’s QBs and don’t count the one Meyers threw.
 

rodderick

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There is an outside chance that going into the game Brady will have thrown more touchdown passes through three games this season than the Patriots have thrown since he left. The chances go up if you limit the question to passes thrown by Patriot’s QBs and don’t count the one Meyers threw.
If you limit it to Patriots QBs it's a near certainty. They are already tied 9-9 and I don't think Mac is throwing more TDs than Tom today.
 

BaseballJones

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I live in CT. My tires are normally between 35-38 psi. This morning when I started the car they were at 29-32. What happened?

This is just your friendly reminder that most Americans are stupid and probably assume that someone came to my house and let air out.

Here’s to hoping the Pats don’t get blown out by Tom next week.
 

Bowhemian

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I live in CT. My tires are normally between 35-38 psi. This morning when I started the car they were at 29-32. What happened?

This is just your friendly reminder that most Americans are stupid and probably assume that someone came to my house and let air out.

Here’s to hoping the Pats don’t get blown out by Tom next week.
Dorito Dink strikes again.
 

BaseballJones

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Dorito Dink strikes again.
LOL. I try to just let it go but every year around this time, when the temperatures drop and inevitably so does the tire pressure in cars all over New England (and everywhere else it's cold), it forces me back to this. It's just unfathomable that people who experience this every year still don't understand that it happens to footballs too.

Tom Brady was suspended four games and lost a ton of money because at the end of the day, people couldn't accept basic laws of physics. (yes I know there was more to it than that but still...)
 

rodderick

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I just think it's funny that people for some reason decided this Tampa defense was the second coming of the 2000 Ravens after the Super Bowl and here we are three games in and a 44 year old QB is being asked to carry a team with no running game and no pass defense. My guess is you'll see the Bucs do what having Brady made it possible for the Pats to do for 20 years: gradually improve and figure things out during the season while dropping very few games in the process due to elite QB play. And when they're humming in January, the "any QB could win on this team" discourse will start again.
 

lexrageorge

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Random factoid of the week: Matt Stafford becomes the 13th QB (out of 126) to own a career winning record (2-1) against Brady, and the 10th to do so after having played 2 or more games against TB12. The other 9 are Eli Manning, Drew Brees, Russell Wilson, Kyle Orton, Alex Smith, Nick Foles, Jake Plummer, Brian Griese, and, of course, Cam Newton. Kevin Kolb, Patrick Ramsey, and Lamar Jackson were/are 1-0 lifetime against Brady.
 

luckiestman

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Random factoid of the week: Matt Stafford becomes the 13th QB (out of 126) to own a career winning record (2-1) against Brady, and the 10th to do so after having played 2 or more games against TB12. The other 9 are Eli Manning, Drew Brees, Russell Wilson, Kyle Orton, Alex Smith, Nick Foles, Jake Plummer, Brian Griese, and, of course, Cam Newton. Kevin Kolb, Patrick Ramsey, and Lamar Jackson were/are 1-0 lifetime against Brady.
Patrick Ramsey ,lol, I remember that one. Last loss before Pats went on some crazy winning streak that spanned two seasons
 

tims4wins

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Patrick Ramsey ,lol, I remember that one. Last loss before Pats went on some crazy winning streak that spanned two seasons
Correct, they won 21 straight including playoffs, and went 32-2 over the last 12 regular season games of 2003, 3 playoff games, 16 regular season games of 2004, and 3 more playoff games, with the 2 rings. It was insane.
 

luckiestman

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Correct, they won 21 straight including playoffs, and went 32-2 over the last 12 regular season games of 2003, 3 playoff games, 16 regular season games of 2004, and 3 more playoff games, with the 2 rings. It was insane.

This was during my cigar smoking on the patio during football games phase in grad school. I remember watching the first half (somehow it was on FOX in Tallahassee) and I went to the cigar shop at halftime and was listening on the radio and I always think back to one of these broadcasts talking about how the talent on these two teams was even. It cracks me up thinking about what happened going forward. I can still see this day in my head.
 

Gash Prex

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Seems strange that he hasn't resolved his DV case and fans/league seems good with this? Everybody sort of moved from AB's issues and now they bring in Sherman and...crickets.