Tom Wilson

cshea

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If there was no NHL, Tom Wilson would definitely be in jail. The whataboutism in this thread is crazy. There are maybe 3 or 4 players in the modern history of this league who is even close to the level of predator this guy is on the ice. Off the top of my head I can think of dirty hits that hurt Brian Campbell, Nikita Zadorov, Panarin, Sundquist, Carlo, Aston-Reese, Marchessault, Wennberg and Conor Sheary (I think?). There are dozens of others I'm sure. He doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt here and his actions in the penalty box just show that he is not contrite about the way he plays, its by design.

I applaud the Rangers for their statement. They are 100% right. The DOPS has been a joke since its inception because the league doesn't actually care about this, they care about the PR disaster that is guys laying on the ice and they know they need to do something. They consistently do the least amount possible though. Tonight's game is must watch but the Rangers don't have the personnel to take care of this since they league won't
Yeah, I'll tune in but I don't expect anything from the Rangers tonight. The statement was probably it. Maybe there is a goon in Hartford they can call up to fight Wilson but they really have nobody on their current roster that is remotely close to him. And if they do call up some goon, it'll probably go like the Cooke/Thornton or Gaustad/Lucic after those incidents. Quick bout and then get back to hockey.

Unless Wilson maims someone mid-game which is always a possibility.
 

PedroSpecialK

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By all means, let's keep giving this guy the benefit of the doubt, the frequency and severity of his hits being late / to the head / a consequence of him leaving his feet is not anomalous at all compared to other players in the league.


This guy is out there night in and night out, hitting to injure his opponents. And yet, when actual heavyweights try to make him answer for it, he's nowhere to be found. He really is Steve Downie in a bigger frame.
 

santadevil

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Forgive me, as I've only read page 1 or this thread and then the three posts before mine on Page 5, but I've always figured for intentionally hurting an opponent, the suspension should be, no playing until the player you injured can play, and then a suspension that starts from that point on. Effectively indefinite
 

mwonow

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Forgive me, as I've only read page 1 or this thread and then the three posts before mine on Page 5, but I've always figured for intentionally hurting an opponent, the suspension should be, no playing until the player you injured can play, and then a suspension that starts from that point on. Effectively indefinite
Makes sense as a max. There should be a min, too, though - if a player (especially a repeat offender like Wilson) tries to injure an opponent, the suspension should be, "minimum of x games or as long as [opponent] is not medically cleared to play." If Wilson/similar tries to maim yet another player, and that player happens to avoid serious injury, Wilson/etc. should still miss a set of game checks that ties to the intent.
 

Dummy Hoy

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I nearly got sick watching some of those @PedroSpecialK

Forgive me, as I've only read page 1 or this thread and then the three posts before mine on Page 5, but I've always figured for intentionally hurting an opponent, the suspension should be, no playing until the player you injured can play, and then a suspension that starts from that point on. Effectively indefinite
You can't judge on that...guys get hurt badly on innocuous plays and guys survive some of the dirtiest plays out there. You absoluitely cannot tie in the victim's condition.
 

joe dokes

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1. I did not offer the Crosby and Gotsibehere dirty plays to justify what Wilson did - again, its not justified. My point is that the hand wringing over Wilson's hit seems ludicrous to me when similar things happen almost every night in this league. Its a league that encourage violence and so fans shouldn't be shocked and appalled when gambling breaks out in Casablanca.

2. I did incorrectly indicate that Friedman hit the boards head first - sorry about the misstatement and thanks for the correction. But that cheap, dirty & dangerous hit had at least as much potential for a serious injury as Wilson's.
Wilson is already on record (so to speak) as intending to seriously injure players. So the discussion about him is necessarily different than just about anyone else.
 

cshea

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I've seen this mentioned a few times the past couple of days and it's vomit inducing. People are pointing to Mario and Ray Shero for setting Matt Cooke straight and saying the Capitals have to do the same with Wilson. Abso-fucking-lutely ridiculous. How many players did Cooke concuss before Pittsburgh said anything? I mean, the teams themselves have to control their own players, but using the Penguins and Cooke as the model example makes me want to puke. Justin Bourne, who I like, referred to this in his Sportsnet article today.

View: https://twitter.com/JoshYohe_PGH/status/1389599077134909446?s=20
 

Steve Dillard

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Rangers fired John Davidson and John Gorton. Those two must have been behind the post attacking the NHL, and are being sacrificed.





Larry Brooks

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BREAKING. Shocker. Rangers have fired John Davidson and Jeff Gorton, Post has learned. Chris Drury will remain with organization and will have prominent role.
 

Ferm Sheller

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Do we know for sure yet whether Wilson will be in the line up tonight (and not be taking a "maintenance day")?
 

RIFan

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Davidson and Gorton have the Rangers positioned to be a force over the next few years. Davidson will have a soft landing spot with one of the new networks. Gorton will be unemployed only as long as he wants to be. They kiss up to the league by canning them and just alienated the players who they were backing. Dolan continues to be the worst owner in sports.
 

TheRealness

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Do we know for sure yet whether Wilson will be in the line up tonight (and not be taking a "maintenance day")?
If they sit him, then they probably deserve what they get when one of their stars gets run.

That would be the epic definition of cowardly. If I played for the Caps and that happened, I would be embarrassed.
 

Ferm Sheller

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If they sit him, then they probably deserve what they get when one of their stars gets run.

That would be the epic definition of cowardly. If I played for the Caps and that happened, I would be embarrassed.
I feel the same way, but I'm wondering whether the NHL mandated (confidentially) that Wilson sit tonight as a means of damage control.
 

cshea

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Believe he is playing. Saw earlier that Ovechkin is out as well as Kuznetsov and Samsonov (covid/disciplinary).
 

moretsyndrome

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Not blaming the victim. My point is instead that, in a sport with a heavy mystique of and encouragement of violence, the pearl clutching that has emerged today when a player goes too far over the line like Wilson did is pretty ironic.
I don't understand what is so confusing about this. There is a line. There has always been a line, although it has moved over time, making the game less and less savage since the days of Eddie Shore and Old Time Hockey.

The line is a contract between competitors that it's ok to hit as hard as you can, and to fight when the situation warrants. It's an understanding that these hits and fights can lead to injury. The line comes into play when you simply and intentionally are going out of your way to injure someone and potentially fuck up their entire life. That's not in the contract, not should it be. It's over the line. It's for the best when guys like Wilson have to pay, one way or the other, for habitually crossing that line.

Finally, can we agree to retire the phrase "pearl clutching"? It's such a tiresome example of the impoverished language so often associated with internet arguments that it makes me want to clutch a bottle of whiskey.
 

Ferm Sheller

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couldnt they just have suspended him for a game if that is something they wanted to happen? Not sure I get it...
No, because by doing so, they'd be admitting that it's a suspendable offense, and the question would arise why he only got a game (given his history).
 

RedOctober3829

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Awesome Fossum

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I've seen this mentioned a few times the past couple of days and it's vomit inducing. People are pointing to Mario and Ray Shero for setting Matt Cooke straight and saying the Capitals have to do the same with Wilson. Abso-fucking-lutely ridiculous. How many players did Cooke concuss before Pittsburgh said anything? I mean, the teams themselves have to control their own players, but using the Penguins and Cooke as the model example makes me want to puke. Justin Bourne, who I like, referred to this in his Sportsnet article today.

View: https://twitter.com/JoshYohe_PGH/status/1389599077134909446?s=20
My understanding is that after the Caps gave him that big contract following the 2018 season and then he immediately got a 20-game suspension for a hit in a fucking preseason game, they did have a come to Jesus moment with him. And he had been incident-free since (or at least discipline-free) up until the Carlo hit, to the point that the Carlo hit didn't even qualify as a repeat offense.

Of course, there's been a coaching change since. So maybe the message has changed.
 

scott bankheadcase

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I've seen this mentioned a few times the past couple of days and it's vomit inducing. People are pointing to Mario and Ray Shero for setting Matt Cooke straight and saying the Capitals have to do the same with Wilson. Abso-fucking-lutely ridiculous. How many players did Cooke concuss before Pittsburgh said anything? I mean, the teams themselves have to control their own players, but using the Penguins and Cooke as the model example makes me want to puke. Justin Bourne, who I like, referred to this in his Sportsnet article today.

View: https://twitter.com/JoshYohe_PGH/status/1389599077134909446?s=20
I completely agree with you. Matt Cooke was every bit as bad as Wilson (and to be clear they both should have been/should be kicked out of the league). The idea that it's on Chara and Ovechkin or whatever to take care of this is also insane. This is what a league is supposed to do to save franchises, that's why they exist.

That's a complete and utter failing on the league. The league needs to suspend Wilson harshly AND the league needs to start giving out penalties like candy for lots of the BS things that happen after the whistle. When all those things are treated as penalties, then the real suspensions can start coming for the egregious stuff.

Right now it's way to easy for things to escalate because there's no punishment for all these other transgressions that happen at every damn stoppage at ever arena with every team every night. I get that will piss off "hockey guys" but it's what the NBA had to do to clean up their player image and health issues and it's what the NFL has been dragged into doing to help their player health issues. Extracurriculars in the NHL are treated far too lightly and it will end up with more labor being hurt, while management moves on to the next guy.

Even tonight someone will hopefully only take a run at Wilson. But maybe they'll feel they need to go after Oshie instead. Again, labor in the crosshairs because management doesn't do their jobs.
 

RIFan

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I completely agree with you. Matt Cooke was every bit as bad as Wilson (and to be clear they both should have been/should be kicked out of the league). The idea that it's on Chara and Ovechkin or whatever to take care of this is also insane. This is what a league is supposed to do to save franchises, that's why they exist.

That's a complete and utter failing on the league. The league needs to suspend Wilson harshly AND the league needs to start giving out penalties like candy for lots of the BS things that happen after the whistle. When all those things are treated as penalties, then the real suspensions can start coming for the egregious stuff.

Right now it's way to easy for things to escalate because there's no punishment for all these other transgressions that happen at every damn stoppage at ever arena with every team every night. I get that will piss off "hockey guys" but it's what the NBA had to do to clean up their player image and health issues and it's what the NFL has been dragged into doing to help their player health issues. Extracurriculars in the NHL are treated far too lightly and it will end up with more labor being hurt, while management moves on to the next guy.

Even tonight someone will hopefully only take a run at Wilson. But maybe they'll feel they need to go after Oshie instead. Again, labor in the crosshairs because management doesn't do their jobs.
The whole "protect the goalie" thing where guys get pummeled for the audacity to be anywhere near the goalie when the puck is tied up is tiresome. I stick poke into a Michelin man is hardly cause for some of the garbage that comes after the whistle. There are rules designed to protect the goalies. If refs called them there wouldn't be a need for most of extracurriculars that happen at the whistle and there is a cleaner line to punish someone like Wilson. The worst part of all that is that it permeates the sport all the way down to the lowest levels of youth hockey. They see guys get jumped every time a puck is tied up in the crease and it seems like it's the way it's supposed to be.
 

scott bankheadcase

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The whole "protect the goalie" thing where guys get pummeled for the audacity to be anywhere near the goalie when the puck is tied up is tiresome. I stick poke into a Michelin man is hardly cause for some of the garbage that comes after the whistle. There are rules designed to protect the goalies. If refs called them there wouldn't be a need for most of extracurriculars that happen at the whistle and there is a cleaner line to punish someone like Wilson. The worst part of all that is that it permeates the sport all the way down to the lowest levels of youth hockey. They see guys get jumped every time a puck is tied up in the crease and it seems like it's the way it's supposed to be.
Absolutely. And want to protect the goalie? Then start being obnoxious about it with penalties like the NFL is with QBs. Any contact at all made with the goalie after a whistle is an automatic penalty. Call a bunch of those and watch the behavior correct itself. Then the "need to protect the goalie" becomes a lot less from other players on the ice.
 

Cotillion

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One of the things they could do is heavily penalize any coming in after a play and grabbing a guy by the head, neck, throat, etc. Especially those ones where two guys are engaged (after falling over or from pre-whistle activity) and a ref/linesman is already there separating/talking to them. You enter that, you get 2 minutes... cause all those do is build up small things into bigger and bigger scrums.
 

Dummy Hoy

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My understanding is that after the Caps gave him that big contract following the 2018 season and then he immediately got a 20-game suspension for a hit in a fucking preseason game, they did have a come to Jesus moment with him. And he had been incident-free since (or at least discipline-free) up until the Carlo hit, to the point that the Carlo hit didn't even qualify as a repeat offense.

Of course, there's been a coaching change since. So maybe the message has changed.
Good point- I think this is well worth mentioning, but not in his favor. He was able to largely control himself for a while (over the course of a couple seasons), but eventually he’s just gonna go and Tom Wilson.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Also, to reiterate:

I hope Wilson gets a cross check to the face and is then pounded into a hazy concussion while on the ice.

No love lost or sympathy for the Penguins, but this dude is consistently out to hurt players, even if it shortens or ruins their career. Ive seen enough of guys like this. Time for his career to be done. Hes a menace.
 

cshea

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Have the Rangers announced a lineup for tonight's game? I'd imagine they have to get someone in there that can at least hold his own against Wilson.
I haven't seen any pre-game comments from the Rangers. Honestly though, they don't really have anyone remotely close to Wilson's class. Sending someone after him will likely only result in a resounding Wilson victory. I don't know what I'd do if I was the Rangers. Obviously don't want to get pushed around and you'd like to send a message but I don't know how to do it given their personnel. Likely to just get one of their own guys hurt or embarassed.

They'll have to bring in an alumni game roster of Mike Rupp, Brian Prust and Stu Bickell with Torts behind the bench.

View: https://youtu.be/iIlLbJHKw8M


(can't recall the story behind that incident)
 

DourDoerr

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I'm surprised that at this point the economics of the game don't have a say on blows to the head. Organizations invest millions of dollars on their skilled players with guaranteed contracts. Losing that player on the ice hamstrings them in talent and with the cap. Season ticket holders spend thousands in the pre-season after essentially being promised the chance to see Player A. The team's fans buy tickets to see talented players represent the team and hopefully gain a win. Little Timmy's favorite player is Panarin and he has tickets to next Monday's game? Well, screw you and the parent who bought you the ticket.

From the player's side, some guys might only get 1 chance in their lifetime to cash in and a shot to the head jeopardizes it. Finally, there is the injury itself. We've learned plenty on the effects of blows to the head. It's debilitating and can lead to early death/suicide. Two guys look to square off and trade blows? Fine. Each player is afforded the chance to opt out and walk away. Erasing someone's head with your high elbow along the boards though is sociopathic. I'll never understand why the players don't get this crap out of the game - and I play hockey so I get the codes, etc. Hell, the NFL's done a far better job on this.
 

mwonow

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A glance at Hockeyfights.com shows that excluding Lemieux, who's no longer with the team, the Rags have won about 6 fights all year. And that includes one against a guy (Kasperi Kapanen) who didn't punch back.

If they don't call someone up (Geertson got mentioned earlier), and I'm not seeing that they have, they'll basically just have to accept that there's not much they can do about getting bullied. Parros certainly isn't going to step in. He'd be more useful on a one-day contract than behind the DoPS desk.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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A glance at Hockeyfights.com shows that excluding Lemieux, who's no longer with the team, the Rags have won about 6 fights all year. And that includes one against a guy (Kasperi Kapanen) who didn't punch back.

If they don't call someone up (Geertson got mentioned earlier), and I'm not seeing that they have, they'll basically just have to accept that there's not much they can do about getting bullied. Parros certainly isn't going to step in. He'd be more useful on a one-day contract than behind the DoPS desk.
Bridge him. Slew foot him. Leave your feet and go for the head.

If the league wont protect the players, fuck him.
 

locknload

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Bridge him. Slew foot him. Leave your feet and go for the head.

If the league wont protect the players, fuck him.
Yeah if the Rangers are going to retaliate its not going to be by dropping the gloves. Wilson won't fight and will turtle, and the refs will immediately break it up. There are a bunch of videos in this thread showing that.
 

EvilEmpire

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https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/31394724/new-york-rangers-fire-gm-jeff-gorton-president-john-davidson-source-says

According to sources, Gorton and Davidson were not involved with the issuing of that statement; it came from Dolan's office.
If Dolan approved the statement, then I think this is really about Chris Drury and the Wilson shit an excuse that a scumbag like Dolan is only too happy to use.

Thanks for the great rebuild guys. See ya.

Fuck Dolan.

Edit: And I say that thinking that Drury will probably do a good job. But still, everything Dolan does is low class.
 

cshea

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Brendan Smith gets Wilson as soon as he got on the ice. Kudos to Smith.

of course Smith gets an instigator
 

Ferm Sheller

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The Rangers should get so many players kicked out they'd have to call it a forfeit. Make a joke out of it.