Tom Wilson

locknload

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Running Backstrom/whomever is just not going to happen. I can guarantee the Rangers have already been warned about retaliating tomorrow night.
You are absolutely right, and absolutely agree that the rangers won't. I guess my point being that it won't stop. NHL player safety doesn't care, other teams won't/can't do anything, so he's just a ticking time bomb before he ends up ending someones career. As long as that player isn't a big name I'm not sure the NHL will care even then.
 

cshea

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The punch on Buchnevich reminded me a little bit of the Marchand punch/jab to the back of David Savard in the playoffs 3 years ago. Savard was on his knees and not flat against the ice so it wasn't driving his head into the ice like Wilson on Buchnevich, but a somewhat similar scenario. Don't believe Marchand got fined.

I had more of a problem with the Panarin takedown.
 

RetractableRoof

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OK, just talking to the pieces... Wilson definitely grabbed the hair and pulled him down by it to force his head back and direct all of his weight arched backwards. There is no other reason the head is straight back that way, and certainly no hockey player would do that to himself in a conflict situation. Forcing him to the ice from that point was intent to injure. Just my two cents. If the DoPS doesn't see a suspendable offense there, then the league has a problem. Lot's of stuff happens in scrums, but attempting to slam the head of another player into the ice isn't/shouldn't be commonplace.

Separately, if the league wants stuff like this to cease then there are a couple of ways that are meaningful. You suspend the coach to match the player suspensions in some sort of ratio - maybe 25% of the player suspension. Further, you don't allow the team to replace the player on the game day roster for the length of the suspension (not to exceed say 7 games). So the Caps are down a player each night that Wilson is suspended after the Carlo hit. It forces the team to enforce accountability on the players. Finally, in the case of the suspendable act resulting in an injured player, you don't allow the player to return to the ice until the player he has injured returns. You need some league Dr review/involvement and some "not to exceed" language to make sure that no gamesmanship happens - but if Carlo misses 15 games with a concussion on a suspendable hit, the player that intentionally causes it shouldn't be on the ice either.

It's not perfect, but create a system where the coach AND the peers have a vested interest in the player behavior, and punish the crap out of the schmuck who tries to make a career out of injuring other players. Because as it stands right now, Wilson is grinning knowing that he can do exactly the same garbage to another player next game. The fact that Wilson is willing to answer the bell for his schmuck stuff doesn't mitigate the behavior when it is intent to injure IMO. I'm with some of the others above (since the league has decided it's acceptable) one of Wilson's teammates is going to catch a beating or a vigilante act with the message "tell Wilson he's the one that caused this". That isn't desirable, but it'll happen. Maybe not because of this incident... but for these kinds of incidents (with weak response by DoPS).
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Lol. You gotta be fucking kidding me with this. Do you know how many NHL fights end exactly like this?
Weird. I missed the fight.

I've seen fights end with guys off balance going to the ice. I've never seen a "fight" that involves prying yourself from a player, diving forward, and trying to use your momentum to slam their head into the ice.

If Wilson used the opportunity to pepper Panarin? Fine. Part of the game. Cant root for Marchand donkey punching the Sedin's and complain about people getting in their licks.

That's not what happened. That wasnt "an NHL fight". Watch the slow mo again. What part of that is a fight? Its pretty clear he had no intent to fight. Wilson wasnt off balance from throwing fists. His intent was to use his momentum going forward to drive Panarins skull into the ice.

What part of that is a normal NHL fight?

Edit: This play is the epitome of why slewfooting is so frowned upon. The end result is the same.
 
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kenneycb

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Which I addressed. You can't say "he punched him in the head" as Red said when he, in fact, did not actually punch him in the head.
 

TFP

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This isn't a hill I'm willing to die on, but the difference is grabbing a helmetless player by the hair for the deliberate purpose of slamming his head into the ice. Admittedly, I only make time for the Bruins and not the rest of the league, so I don't have a wide body of work to draw data from. But it sure doesn't strike me as a common occurrence from what I've seen.
Whereas I see it as him in a wrestling match with a guy who jumped him from behind and they go the ice with the bigger guys momentum winning out with him holding on with whatever he grabs on to. Watch it in full speed and watch their momentum. They're both going down regardless. He's not intentionally grabbing and power slamming his head into the ice at that speed in my opinion. Things happened real fast with like 5 guys going after each other from both teams and they go down within seconds after circling around at high speed. You guys are talking like he saw Panarin on the ground defenseless and bounced his head off the ice (yes I will keep beating this reference into the ground).

Is this true? I've rooted for a lot of guys that have played on that edge, but when people are doing shit that goes over the line to disregarding other players health, I think most people here would not defend that player.
If the DOPS does not consider that a suspendable offense, then they are clueless. Punching a defenseless player that's on the ground in the back of the head is a gutless and cowardly move. A $5,000 fine only encourages that behavior to continue.
The punch on Buchnevich reminded me a little bit of the Marchand punch/jab to the back of David Savard in the playoffs 3 years ago. Savard was on his knees and not flat against the ice so it wasn't driving his head into the ice like Wilson on Buchnevich, but a somewhat similar scenario. Don't believe Marchand got fined.
View: https://youtu.be/c3SCEMwBFUg?t=21
 

Ferm Sheller

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It looks to me like Wilson punched Buchnevich in the "Buch" on the back of his jersey and that his glove then followed through and struck him in the head. Regardless of his intention, since when is punching someone from behind an acceptable act? What a coward.

Wilson dropped Buchnevich with a slash, fell on top of him, and regardless of intention, struck him from behind in a blow that made contact with his head. Again, what a coward.
 

Bread of Yaz

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It looks to me like Wilson punched Buchnevich in the "Buch" on the back of his jersey and that his glove then followed through and struck him in the head. Regardless of his intention, since when is punching someone from behind an acceptable act? What a coward.

Wilson dropped Buchnevich with a slash, fell on top of him, and regardless of intention, struck him from behind in a blow that made contact with his head. Again, what a coward.
And two seconds before Buchenevich pushed his sharpened metal skate into the goalie and slashed at him with his stick. Profile in courage.
 

wiffleballhero

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In the simulacrum
I find it remarkable that Wilson makes it through whole shifts without getting slew-footed over and over again. He deserves whatever cheap shots he gets and whatever harm comes his way. Some of what he has done over the years has been so bad it is amazing he has not caused worse injuries, and this fight is a case in point.

Honestly, if he were to pull this kind of shit with Bergeron I'd actually want to see benches clear -- and I'd be pissed if Chara wasn't throwing punches for us.
 

Zedia

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I’m a fan of old school hockey fights with hair-pulling (Wensink) and violent takedowns (Jonathan), but those guys all knew what they were in for. The takedown and punching of a helmet-less player is a scary thing to see, even if it was fairly standard back in the day.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nqml4UsVVA4

edit - the Jonathan/Bouchard/Wensink/Lupien brawl would probably be a better example of players with complete disregard of opponents safety.
 
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kenneycb

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I find it remarkable that Wilson makes it through whole shifts without getting slew-footed over and over again. He deserves whatever cheap shots he gets and whatever harm comes his way. Some of what he has done over the years has been so bad it is amazing he has not caused worse injuries, and this fight is a case in point.

Honestly, if he were to pull this kind of shit with Bergeron I'd actually want to see benches clear -- and I'd be pissed if Chara wasn't throwing punches for us.
Cheap shots get players suspended which costs them paychecks.
 

PedroSpecialK

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Good for the Rags. Puts the league in a tough spot - basically a choice between:

- Can the guy ultimately doesn't really do much but serve as a figurehead for Campbell/Bettman (accomplishes nothing player safety-wise, but the league would see this as showing weakness anyway)
- Fine the Rangers big-time for dragging a league official's name through the mud (this will be the outcome) but turn the heat up further on themselves. Ultimately they'd have to go through the media merry-go-round of Colin Campbell's emails again, and relitigate the insanity of his position within the league in the court of public opinion
 

Ferm Sheller

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Isn't letting George Parros oversee league disciple akin to letting Charlie Manson preside over the courtroom?
 

TFP

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Bozo Texino

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FWIW, according to The Athletic’s Rangers reporter, Parros didn’t want to suspend Wilson for the Carlo hit but got ordered to do so by Bettman.

https://theathletic.com/2567004/2021/05/04/its-a-joke-nhl-leaves-new-york-rangers-to-police-tom-wilson-themselves-but-what-can-they-really-do/?source=user_shared_article
I'm honestly surprised this episode didn't play out in a similar fashion.

I suppose there's still time for Bettman to make some wild overcorrection.

Holy shit. That’s inconceivable.

They should have thrown the book at him after the Carlo hit.
Agreed, but point of clarification - didn't the Carlo hit go unpenalized during the game?
 

Jordu

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It’s been the same for decades: great game run by stupid people.

Wilson’s not a rat. Ken Linsman wound be offended. Wilson intentionally tries to injure other players -- almost always skilled players — to get them out of games and seasons and give his team an advantage.

There’s protecting the goalie and there’s slamming an unhelmeted opponent’s head into the ice well after the whistle. You only slam an opponent’s head into the ice because you want to hurt him so badly he can’t play.
 

Ferm Sheller

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It’s been the same for decades: great game run by stupid people.

Wilson’s not a rat. Ken Linsman wound be offended. Wilson intentionally tries to injure other players -- almost always skilled players — to get them out of games and seasons and give his team an advantage.

There’s protecting the goalie and there’s slamming an unhelmeted opponent’s head into the ice well after the whistle. You only slam an opponent’s head into the ice because you want to hurt him so badly he can’t play.
I think it's more of a case of Tony Soprano Syndrome -- you piss him off a little and he has no ability to temper his emotions. Just comes out in a rage.
 

McDrew

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I've suggested this before, (and might have earlier in this thead), but I think the solution is moving DOPS into the players union. Let the players decide the former guys they want making rulings and let them change the standards as often as they feel necessary.
 

Jordu

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I think it's more of a case of Tony Soprano Syndrome -- you piss him off a little and he has no ability to temper his emotions. Just comes out in a rage.
Yes, he obviously has ... violence issues, let’s say. Psychological problems. But the NHL is a privately owned company. It can’t accept Tony Soprano behavior from its employees.

The effect of Parros’s decision is that discipline is going to be left up to the players. People are going to get hurt. The league is heading into its showcase playoffs reaffirming non-fans’ impression of hockey as a goon game.
 

kenneycb

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So you will agree with me then that the initial point of impact was the head?
In the way the lip may be an initial point of contact when you punch someone in the nose. It barely knew it got hit. Initial point doesn’t equate to greatest focus of force. All the force went into the shoulder. He didn’t punch him in the ear driving towards his head.
 

durandal1707

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What a statement by the Rangers. Credit to them for putting Parros on blast. About time someone did it.

I guess I'll be tuning in tomorrow night to see what goes down.
 

bgo544

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I almost hope there is some retaliatory ugliness tomorrow night, just to drive home the point that the league has failed miserably in regulating this kind of behavior. Bad enough that it turns into an embarrassing mess for the league.
 

TheRealness

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In the way the lip may be an initial point of contact when you punch someone in the nose. It barely knew it got hit. Initial point doesn’t equate to greatest focus of force. All the force went into the shoulder. He didn’t punch him in the ear driving towards his head.
Good, then we agree Tom was going for his head, and where he actually landed it with force is a matter of subjective interpretation. I think in Zaprudering it a few times that the force goes basically into the side of his lower neck. He did this to a guy lying face down on the ice. It sounds like you feel it’s his collarbone. The discussion just illustrates how little that actually matters, because his intent was with malice, and he’s a douchenozzle.

As for the Rangers statement, holy shit. Scorched Earth! I love it.
 

Cotillion

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I bet what is partially driving that Rangers release is they were probably told make sure your players stay under control. No retaliation, no self policing.
 

Bread of Yaz

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But your honor, did you see the dress she was wearing?
Not blaming the victim. My point is instead that, in a sport with a heavy mystique of and encouragement of violence, the pearl clutching that has emerged today when a player goes too far over the line like Wilson did is pretty ironic.