Tom Wilson

scott bankheadcase

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 1, 2006
1,715
hoboken
Didn't even need to look at PIM. The haircut told me all I needed to hear.
And the Caps losing someone like Ovechkin (or even Oshie) to injury for the playoffs is about as bad of a thing that can happen for the league. I get why people want the Rangers to do this, but the self-policing bullshit will get more and more players hurt. That's just simply bad for the players as a whole and bad for the league as a whole.

It's just awful mismanagement by the NHL.
 

Murby

lurker
Mar 16, 2006
790
Boston Metro
This is a dangerous, awful decision. All the rhetoric rings more hollow than my liver cavity in the moments between my transplant. They don't care about head shots. That's the ONLY message to take here.
 

NYCSox

chris hansen of goats
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
May 19, 2004
9,451
Some fancy town in CT
And the Caps losing someone like Ovechkin (or even Oshie) to injury for the playoffs is about as bad of a thing that can happen for the league. I get why people want the Rangers to do this, but the self-policing bullshit will get more and more players hurt. That's just simply bad for the players as a whole and bad for the league as a whole.

It's just awful mismanagement by the NHL.
It's bad but the Caps would have no one to blame but themselves.
 

Jed Zeppelin

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2008
43,481
I've always felt that suspending coaches for repeat offenders like Wilson would go a long way towards putting a stop to deliberate head hunting. In baseball, managers get ejected if their pitchers throw at batters.
Better yet, if/when the league hands down a suspension, the team with the player who was attacked should be able to choose which player has to serve the time.
 

RSN Diaspora

molests goats for comedy
SoSH Member
Jul 29, 2005
8,464
Washington, DC
Panarin never came back into the game last night and is likely out the rest of the season.
The real insult here is that his assault on Panarin never got addressed by DOPS. Unless they're separating the Buchnevich and Panarin incidents into separate disciplinary incidents (highly unlikely), there will be no consequence for pulling down Panarin.
 

RedOctober3829

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
50,817
deep inside Guido territory
The real insult here is that his assault on Panarin never got addressed by DOPS. Unless they're separating the Buchnevich and Panarin incidents into separate disciplinary incidents (highly unlikely), there will be no consequence for his assault on Panarin.
I just can't wrap my head around the fact that what Wilson did given his history doesn't give him a hearing. The disciplinary process in this league is a joke.
 

tmracht

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Aug 19, 2009
2,591
Oh man, I'm not a fan of players needing to police other players. But this is a pathetic and weak decision. To say that Panarin was in a wrestling match, is like saying it's okay for Kurt Angle to suplex some middle school kid learning about wrestling full power. This ain't the same thing. DOPS should just be renamed Department of Tom Wilson Ball Washing. I really can't wait to see a Ranger take a run at someone on the Caps then they get suspended for the rest of the season. That'll teach them.
 

TFP

Dope
Dope
Dec 10, 2007
19,404
assault on Panarin
Lol. You gotta be fucking kidding me with this. Do you know how many NHL fights end exactly like this?

I hate Tom Wilson as much anyone but there there are some absolutely laughable takes in this thread. I knew as soon as I saw it he wouldn't get suspended for this, it was very predictable.

This is the DOPS' fault for not suspending him longer for the Carlo hit. But if this weren't Tom Wilson, none of this rises to the level of a repeatable act and if any of the Bruins did this we'd all be cheering loudly at the #response sticking up for their goalie.
 

TFP

Dope
Dope
Dec 10, 2007
19,404
given his history doesn't give him a hearing.
We've been over this 100 times but one more time for everyone. Someone's history does not make an act suspendable/non-suspendable. It only factors into punishment ONCE the act is considered suspendable. Which this wasn't (by the DOPS).

To say that Panarin was in a wrestling match, is like saying it's okay for Kurt Angle to suplex some middle school kid learning about wrestling full power.
Panarin jumped on his back and held on.
 

TFP

Dope
Dope
Dec 10, 2007
19,404
Christ people you've got me defending Tom F'ing Wilson. I feel gross and slimy.
 

j44thor

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
9,662
We've been over this 100 times but one more time for everyone. Someone's history does not make an act suspendable/non-suspendable. It only factors into punishment ONCE the act is considered suspendable. Which this wasn't (by the DOPS).


Panarin jumped on his back and held on.
I'm just going to assume you didn't watch the video.
Panarin grabbed him from behind which happens dozens of times a game. What doesn't happen dozens of times a game is throwing a player down onto their head on the ice after the scrum is more or less over. If that isn't suspendable god save this league.
 

RSN Diaspora

molests goats for comedy
SoSH Member
Jul 29, 2005
8,464
Washington, DC
Lol. You gotta be fucking kidding me with this. Do you know how many NHL fights end exactly like this?
Perhaps I don't--is there a larger collection of incidents that end with a player grabbing a helmetless opponent's head to slam into the ice?
 

Dduncan6er

lurker
Apr 16, 2020
251
Springfield, MA
At what point does the NHLPA have to step in and make a statement? I get that Wilson is a member and they have a responsibility to him but what about the countless players he's seriously injured or attempted to injure? I imagine most players want guys like Wilson out of the league.
 

tmracht

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Aug 19, 2009
2,591
Panarin jumped on his back and held on.
Yes jumped and held on, which is why I compared him to a middle schooler. Because that's what the 10 year old does to me. I don't then turn around and grab her by the hair and yank her down backwards.

I don't think the Buch play on its own is horrible. But slamming Panarin like that is next level dangerous from a serially dangerous man. Sure they can't factor in repeater into suspension or not. But there is a history of clear intent.

Defend if you want. I'm happy with my take that it's a horrible play. If my teammate defended me by doing that I would not applaud and I've been run a few times in net.
 

Bozo Texino

still hates Dave Kerpen
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
8,427
Austin, Texas
At what point does the NHLPA have to step in and make a statement? I get that Wilson is a member and they have a responsibility to him but what about the countless players he's seriously injured or attempted to injure? I imagine most players want guys like Wilson out of the league.
Who's the Capitals' NHLPA rep?

40806
 

TFP

Dope
Dope
Dec 10, 2007
19,404
is there a larger collection of incidents that end with a player grabbing a helmetless opponent's head to slam into the ice?
What doesn't happen dozens of times a game is throwing a player down onto their head on the ice after the scrum is more or less over.
This is how a lot of NHL fights end, by the way. Why is this suspendable between two willing players and not at the end of a fight between 2 willing players? What's the difference between the two other than this was Wilson vs Panarin?

Look - I despise Tom Wilson. He should have gotten the rest of the season after the Carlo hit and clearly isn't learning and would have been fine with him getting a lifetime achievement award suspension for this, and I'm fine with him getting roasted for everything he does. But after getting (justifiably) jumped from behind and having 3 guys swinging at him, I don't think it's a suspendable act to take someone down to the ice after wrestling that same person off of you. I also didn't expect DOPS to see it that way either.

I'm not advocating slamming someone's head into the ice, Shawn Thornton style. I'm saying when going at it, it often ends with 2 guys dangerously going down, often helmetless, in a very similar manner that's never been called for a suspension.

Yes jumped and held on, which is why I compared him to a middle schooler. Because that's what the 10 year old does to me. I don't then turn around and grab her by the hair and yank her down backwards.
Haha imagine comparing an NHL athlete to a middle schooler. Give me a break.
 

RIFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
2,698
Rhode Island
This is going to be the mother of all blowback on the NHL. They may not care, but they are going to get killed by everyone on this one. Caps fans were actually somewhat quiet (for them) on this so even a large number of them knew he should be facing something. I knew when they let it sit overnight there wasn't going to be a serious look at it, but letting him off with a fine is freaking insane given his history. Nobody ever gets fired in the NHL front offices. They only get promoted. I can't imagine they'll do anything with Parros, but Bettman has to at some point be concerned about optics and perception of the league.

Let's see if the Rangers recall Mason Geertsen. He's about the only guy in the org they can throw at Wilson.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
22,095
You guys are thinking too small. Fuck Wilson, go after the other players.
After Cooke took out Savard, KPDupont wrote something in the Globe (that i can no longer remember) that caused me to ask him why Thornton (or McQuaid, etc) doesn't just line up for a faceoff against Crosby, ignore the drop of the puck and just hit him with an uppercut while Crosby is looking down for the puck. That's sort of how it works in MLB -- a pitcher's teammates might tell the pitcher to cut the crap so they don't get drilled. KPD's response invoked various "codes" and "rules" of NHL gentlemanly conduct. ("That's just not the way its done.") It had the same reverential tone that Jim Nantz reserves for golfers calling penalties on themselves.
 

Dummy Hoy

Angry Pissbum
SoSH Member
Jul 22, 2006
7,424
Falmouth
Christ people you've got me defending Tom F'ing Wilson. I feel gross and slimy.
My biggest issue (and what I'd suspend for) was the initial play on Buchnevech...I thought he slammed his head down into the ice intentionally (and then threw a punch for good measure).

While I agree that the Panarin incident was how most hockey scrums end, Wilson should get zero benefits at this point.
 

PedroSpecialK

Comes at you like a tornado of hair and the NHL sa
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2004
26,404
Cambridge, MA
Parros is too busy selling t-shirts to police player safety anyway.

A competent league would've had Wilson on a Torres-esque half-season suspension before this incident, full season suspension after this. Instead he'll probably sit a game or two max, and the next guy in Buchnevich's position won't be so lucky.
Echoing @cshea and @TFP, I did not expect a significant suspension. I think the damage has been done long before by the NHL in installing a "make hockey violent again" dumb fuck like Parros as DoPS czar. I never thought I'd pine for the days of Brendan Shanahan / Stephane Quintal leading player safety but here we are.

However, I disagree with TFP that this was not a suspension-worthy offense; Wilson having his stick against Buchnevich's throat, with Buchnevich head down on the ice, and delivering a full force punch (that thankfully missed his head) is egregious IMO. It's a complete psychopath move and should have been treated as such. That it wasn't (and that many expected it not to be) says a lot about the state of the NHL and how it values player safety, but that's not really a Tom Wilson discussion I guess.

Shawn Thornton rightly got 15 games for punching Orpik's lights out when he was down on the ice. Buchnevich is in an even more compromised position here, but walked away without a significant head injury.
 

mwonow

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 4, 2005
6,197
This is going to be the mother of all blowback on the NHL. They may not care, but they are going to get killed by everyone on this one. Caps fans were actually somewhat quiet (for them) on this so even a large number of them knew he should be facing something. I knew when they let it sit overnight there wasn't going to be a serious look at it, but letting him off with a fine is freaking insane given his history. Nobody ever gets fired in the NHL front offices. They only get promoted. I can't imagine they'll do anything with Parros, but Bettman has to at some point be concerned about optics and perception of the league.

Let's see if the Rangers recall Mason Geertsen. He's about the only guy in the org they can throw at Wilson. Ovi?
I remember Ott getting not a little bit of shit after Hnidy whaled on Niskanen
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eG6wQRnnT8o
 

TFP

Dope
Dope
Dec 10, 2007
19,404
However, I disagree with TFP that this was not a suspension-worthy offense; Wilson having his stick against Buchnevich's throat, with Buchnevich head down on the ice, and delivering a full force punch (that thankfully missed his head) is egregious IMO. It's a complete psychopath move and should have been treated as such. That it wasn't (and that many expected it not to be) says a lot about the state of the NHL and how it values player safety, but that's not really a Tom Wilson discussion I guess.
For the record I was just referring to the Panarin part with that line.

I’d have been more than fine with him getting suspended for the punch and honestly just for being a general asshole. But…gloved punches to the head happen a LOT and they very very rarely get suspended unless you bounce a helmet-less players head off the ice and knock him out cold. So by their (admittedly dumb) rules, if they aren’t going to suspend someone like Bergy for doing it, they can’t suspend Wilson. Either the act itself is suspendable or it isn’t and I don’t think a gloved punch to the back of the shoulder, even if aimed at the head, is suspendable.

If we want to talk big picture about how bad the DOPS is and how they really don’t care about player safety, then I’m here for it. Also here for talking about how big an asshole Wilson is. Here for all of that.
 

RIFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
2,698
Rhode Island
I remember Ott getting not a little bit of shit after Hnidy whaled on Niskanen
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eG6wQRnnT8o
Ovie is not the guy to target unless you want a rookie to get his butt handed to him. Running Backstrom would get more attention. (To be honest, I expect Wilson to answer the call and wouldn't advocate for running a guy like Backstrom.) I also think if that targeted someone other than Wilson, Chara would step in to handle if he was on the ice.
View: https://youtu.be/f77uFFg8uFo
 

The Gray Eagle

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2001
15,114
What does the Caps organization think of Wilson? The day before his incident against the Rangers, they gave him the A.

https://russianmachineneverbreaks.com/2021/05/01/tom-wilson-to-serve-as-an-alternate-captain-against-the-penguins/

They could have chosen Chara instead (and he wore the A a few days before) but they took it back and went with the guy whose leadership they prefer.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/05/02/tom-wilson-capitals-leadership/

The Capitals’ coaching staff decides who wears the “A” when players are out. Chara was chosen for Thursday’s game. Chara served as captain of the Boston Bruins for 14 seasons, and he wore the “A” alongside Backstrom and T.J. Oshie, who routinely sports the first extra “A” patch when a player is out.
On Saturday, the Capitals chose forward Tom Wilson to wear the third “A.”
“It’s a chance to just acknowledge some guys that are actually doing a good job of leading this club,” Laviolette said. “We’ve always said we’ve felt like we have strong leadership, and Tom has been a good leader the whole time, and Zdeno has come in and been a leader. . . . It is not just a token thing; it is because guys bring good leadership in the room.”
 

RSN Diaspora

molests goats for comedy
SoSH Member
Jul 29, 2005
8,464
Washington, DC
This is how a lot of NHL fights end, by the way. Why is this suspendable between two willing players and not at the end of a fight between 2 willing players? What's the difference between the two other than this was Wilson vs Panarin?
This isn't a hill I'm willing to die on, but the difference is grabbing a helmetless player by the hair for the deliberate purpose of slamming his head into the ice. Admittedly, I only make time for the Bruins and not the rest of the league, so I don't have a wide body of work to draw data from. But it sure doesn't strike me as a common occurrence from what I've seen.
 

Bread of Yaz

lurker
Mar 12, 2019
96
Lol. You gotta be fucking kidding me with this. Do you know how many NHL fights end exactly like this?

I hate Tom Wilson as much anyone but there there are some absolutely laughable takes in this thread. I knew as soon as I saw it he wouldn't get suspended for this, it was very predictable.

This is the DOPS' fault for not suspending him longer for the Carlo hit. But if this weren't Tom Wilson, none of this rises to the level of a repeatable act and if any of the Bruins did this we'd all be cheering loudly at the #response sticking up for their goalie.
This is what I was trying (inartfully) to get at earlier. Its a violent and vicious sport, which encourages violence and markets violence. When you start from that premise, it gets hard to draw lines around what is acceptable violence and what is not. Wilson is an a--hole, but most folks on here would be willing to give him a pass, and view his approach differently, if he played for the Bruins. Where you stand depends on where you sit.
 

kenneycb

Hates Goose Island Beer; Loves Backdoor Play
SoSH Member
Dec 2, 2006
14,265
Tuukka's refugee camp
This isn't a hill I'm willing to die on, but the difference is grabbing a helmetless player by the hair for the deliberate purpose of slamming his head into the ice. Admittedly, I only make time for the Bruins and not the rest of the league, so I don't have a wide body of work to draw data from. But it sure doesn't strike me as a common occurrence from what I've seen.
I think the issue is with your characterization of what happened. You make it sound like Wilson Bertuzzi'd an innocent and unsuspecting Panarin.
 

Dummy Hoy

Angry Pissbum
SoSH Member
Jul 22, 2006
7,424
Falmouth
This is what I was trying (inartfully) to get at earlier. Its a violent and vicious sport, which encourages violence and markets violence. When you start from that premise, it gets hard to draw lines around what is acceptable violence and what is not. Wilson is an a--hole, but most folks on here would be willing to give him a pass, and view his approach differently, if he played for the Bruins. Where you stand depends on where you sit.
Is this true? I've rooted for a lot of guys that have played on that edge, but when people are doing shit that goes over the line to disregarding other players health, I think most people here would not defend that player.

The uproar around here when Zac Rinaldo signed was clear, that's not a guy to root for.

To me there's a huge difference between rooting for a bully like Looch and a dangerous player.
 

locknload

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
3,299
Haverhill MA
The only way this ever stops is if Backstrom or Oshie (running Ovie won't end well, dude is a truck) ends up out for a significant portion of time as direct retaliation for Wilson's actions. NHL doesn't care, and will continue to not care. If the players wont police then Wilson will just keep racking up the incidents.
 

cshea

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 15, 2006
29,562
306, row 14
Running Backstrom/whomever is just not going to happen. I can guarantee the Rangers have already been warned about retaliating tomorrow night.
 

RedOctober3829

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
50,817
deep inside Guido territory
We've been over this 100 times but one more time for everyone. Someone's history does not make an act suspendable/non-suspendable. It only factors into punishment ONCE the act is considered suspendable. Which this wasn't (by the DOPS).


Panarin jumped on his back and held on.
If the DOPS does not consider that a suspendable offense, then they are clueless. Punching a defenseless player that's on the ground in the back of the head is a gutless and cowardly move. A $5,000 fine only encourages that behavior to continue.
 

kenneycb

Hates Goose Island Beer; Loves Backdoor Play
SoSH Member
Dec 2, 2006
14,265
Tuukka's refugee camp
He punched him in the back / shoulder. If we're going to rage on Wilson, let's at least get facts straight. He may have been aiming for the head but that's unknowable at this point.
 

CapeCodYaz

lurker
Sep 24, 2020
29
Rangers and Caps play again tomorrow. I'm at the point where I hope several Ranger players take runs at several Caps. And then we all tell Laviolette that they were just having fun out there, we didn't see anything. They're just misunderstood.
I imagine they are going to come after him and the stars of the Caps--I like the Caps but their leaders need to control him
 

RIFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
2,698
Rhode Island

RedOctober3829

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
50,817
deep inside Guido territory
He punched him in the back / shoulder. If we're going to rage on Wilson, let's at least get facts straight. He may have been aiming for the head but that's unknowable at this point.
To me, it looks like he got punched in the upper neck/head area. It's a very dangerous area to get hit when considering your spine is right there.
 

TheRealness

Don't make him go all Lucic on your ash
SoSH Member
Feb 8, 2006
11,479
The Dirty Shire
Running Backstrom/whomever is just not going to happen. I can guarantee the Rangers have already been warned about retaliating tomorrow night.
I am not a fan of running other players that aren't responsible for Wilson's shithousery. I also think the calls for Wilson to have some sort of career ending injury are over the line. He's a bag of shit, but let's not stoop to his level.

However, the league (and assigned refs) overreacting to the Rangers trying to police what the league won't is just incredibly frustrating. Let them go after him. He deserves it and he's a big boy that can defend himself. It's what his sycophant's in Whitney, et al want, so let them have it. He's a big hockey player. Let them settle it on the ice. Guy deserves to get his face punched in and for him to be run all fucking game long.
 

Ed Hillel

Wants to be startin somethin
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2007
29,534
Here
Panarin got his hand below his head on the ice JUST in the nick of time, or he might have been brained. Incomprehensible non-punishment. Really, I just hope some goon cheap shots him in the lower extremeties. It will save more people overall, as it seems the NHL is not interested in doing any of that on their own. Someone call Ulf.
 

CapeCodYaz

lurker
Sep 24, 2020
29
Ovie is not the guy to target unless you want a rookie to get his butt handed to him. Running Backstrom would get more attention. (To be honest, I expect Wilson to answer the call and wouldn't advocate for running a guy like Backstrom.) I also think if that targeted someone other than Wilson, Chara would step in to handle if he was on the ice.
View: https://youtu.be/f77uFFg8uFo
going after Ocie would be a mistake--he is much bigger and stronger than he looks and every Russian player on the Caps would jump in if needed (if they weren't be disciplined for COVID violations or being late to team meetings)
 

j44thor

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
9,662
This is how a lot of NHL fights end, by the way. Why is this suspendable between two willing players and not at the end of a fight between 2 willing players? What's the difference between the two other than this was Wilson vs Panarin?
Simple, this wasn't a fight. Panarin was trying to pull Wilson off the pile which happens all the time in hockey, there were 3-4 players doing exactly the same thing at the same time. The difference was the rest of the players didn't try to body slam the other guys on their heads. Panarin wasn't in there throwing punches he was trying to get Wilson, who was throwing punches, off his teammate. This wasn't a fight it was a cheap shot.
 

kenneycb

Hates Goose Island Beer; Loves Backdoor Play
SoSH Member
Dec 2, 2006
14,265
Tuukka's refugee camp
To me, it looks like he got punched in the upper neck/head area. It's a very dangerous area to get hit when considering your spine is right there.
I honestly have no idea what you're looking at. He hits him in the U on the nameplate. I've watched it more times at 0.5x speed than I care to admit. Then he grabs the back of the jersey below the helmet.
 

TheRealness

Don't make him go all Lucic on your ash
SoSH Member
Feb 8, 2006
11,479
The Dirty Shire
I honestly have no idea what you're looking at. He hits him in the U on the nameplate. I've watched it more times at 0.5x speed than I care to admit. Then he grabs the back of the jersey below the helmet.
Are you high? It's ok if you are.

He hits him in the left ear/left neck area.