Tom Coughlin fired

mauf

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I figure there’s enough schadenfreude here to give this news its own thread.

Khan said he had already decided Coughlin had to go, but decided to accelerate the announcement in the wake of the NFLPA’s remarks about the franchise.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28329810/jaguars-fire-tom-coughlin-just-days-nflpa-warning-players
Seems to me that Coughlin took the reins of a franchise that hadn’t accomplished anything recently but had built a good culture and accumulated some talented players. Then, he hogged the credit for the successful season a lot of us knew was coming, then proceeded to flush the entire enterprise down the drain. If it wasn’t clear from his last couple years in New York, it is painfully obvious now — the game has passed him by.

Coughlin’s first stint in Jacksonville was quite successful, and somewhat underrated. That will make it somewhat less of a joke when he makes the Hall of Fame on the basis of his wildly overrated tenure in New York.

I’m glad BC filled its head coaching job before Coughlin became available, so that the Eagles won’t have to follow the Jaguars’ lead in learning the hard way that you can’t go home again.
 

twibnotes

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I wonder if he was ten minutes early for the meeting at which they fired him
 

Over Guapo Grande

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Apparently, Mike Florio is a Coughlin fanboy:

So why not let him walk away, with his head held semi-high? Instead, Khan gave in to the mob mentality that has emerged via comments from current players and a stinging rebuke from their union, which expressly warned all members to think twice before signing with the Jaguars.

It’s too late to take it back, too late to let Coughlin resign or retire. There are few certainties in this business, but here’s one that can be guaranteed: Khan will regret the way this one was handled.

The Jags were mean to Tom
 

lexrageorge

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The idea that Khan will regret firing Coughlin is absurd. When one team is the target 25% of all NFLPA grievances, it's a problem.

There will be plenty of qualified people available and more than willing to run the football ops side of the Jaguars. Few of those will care whether Coughlin was fired or forced to resign; and the ones that do care are not cut out for the job in the first place.
 

tims4wins

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As much as I'd like to stomp on his grave, he beat the Pats on the biggest stage not once, but twice, and I'm not sure I'll ever get over those losses. For some reason even 46 bugs me more than 52. Probably because it was the same team as 42. That and the Welker drop. The Pats barely had the lead in 52, but led for basically the entire second half in 46.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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No one's arguing that Coughlin's not a good coach. But eventually his assholeness became more of an impediment to football success than his football acumen. Once the Jaguars lost the grievance and it came out that they had 25% of the entire league's grievances, Khan had no choice but to fire Coughlin. You can't run a team like that any more, Lombardi's long dead.
 

Van Everyman

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The idea that Khan will regret firing Coughlin is absurd. When one team is the target 25% of all NFLPA grievances, it's a problem.
I think Florio’s point isn’t that Khan should have kept Coughlin – but that he should have showed a 2x SB-winning coach some deference in how he was relieved of his position by allowing him to resign.

I’m not sure I agree with that point given that the reputation of the team sounds like it was at stake. But that read to me more like what Florio was getting at.
 

loshjott

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I wonder if the Jags fines and discipline system is more draconian than most, or if Coughlin's approach and the continued ineptitude of the team is the difference. BB famously runs a tight ship with no tolerance for being late, undisciplined, etc. And we don't know how many grievances Pats players have filed. It seems BB has earned the respect of players and maybe he also brings in players who are more likely to adhere to the Pats standards.
 

Rough Carrigan

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I wonder if the Jags fines and discipline system is more draconian than most, or if Coughlin's approach and the continued ineptitude of the team is the difference. BB famously runs a tight ship with no tolerance for being late, undisciplined, etc. And we don't know how many grievances Pats players have filed. It seems BB has earned the respect of players and maybe he also brings in players who are more likely to adhere to the Pats standards.
I suspect that the latter is the somewhat unacknowledged key to the system and why it doesn't work so well elsewhere.
 

InstaFace

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The idea that Khan will regret firing Coughlin is absurd. When one team is the target 25% of all NFLPA grievances, it's a problem.

There will be plenty of qualified people available and more than willing to run the football ops side of the Jaguars. Few of those will care whether Coughlin was fired or forced to resign; and the ones that do care are not cut out for the job in the first place.
While I'm inclined to agree with you in the specific, I'm bothered because this mentality is precisely what has led NFL franchises, and the NFL as an association, to treat their employees like property rather than people. And it's endemic.

Khan could have handled this with more empathy, both for the aggrieved players and for Coughlin as well. A little of that would go a long way in the NFL.
 

InstaFace

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I wonder if the Jags fines and discipline system is more draconian than most, or if Coughlin's approach and the continued ineptitude of the team is the difference. BB famously runs a tight ship with no tolerance for being late, undisciplined, etc. And we don't know how many grievances Pats players have filed. It seems BB has earned the respect of players and maybe he also brings in players who are more likely to adhere to the Pats standards.
It also appears that his primary form of punishment with the Pats is in terms of playing time, which is universally understood as a coach's sole discretion and not the subject of grievances, rather than fines (though they do use fines too). Jonas Gray was far, far more embarrassed to sit out the next game after his epic 4 TD game than any extent of fines involved, to the point where he didn't even mention them.

In terms of behavior modification, a small fine is probably 99% as effective as a large one when you're not dealing with an obstinate diva, because the inconvenience and semi-public shaming involved make it memorable. $99k fines to people who might be only making the $480k rookie minimum before taxes are absurd and punitive. Any military commander who had punishments misaligned with conduct "crimes" to that degree would be overruled and corrected quickly, and if not then relieved soon thereafter.
 

mauf

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While I'm inclined to agree with you in the specific, I'm bothered because this mentality is precisely what has led NFL franchises, and the NFL as an association, to treat their employees like property rather than people. And it's endemic.

Khan could have handled this with more empathy, both for the aggrieved players and for Coughlin as well. A little of that would go a long way in the NFL.
If you want to change how the NFL treats its players, whitewashing the behavior of executives who mistreat players is not the way to go. If anything, Khan was too gracious to Coughlin — arguably, his statement should have talked about how Coughlin’s behavior was unacceptable and inconsistent with the club’s values, rather than praising Coughlin for his years of distinguished service to the franchise. (Of course, Khan had his reasons for saying what he did.)
 

InstaFace

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Fair point, though I imagine the firing itself is what will reassure the players and the NFLPA more than any words uttered on anyone's behalf.

But I'd say there's a lot of room between "whitewashing" and perp-walking him out of the building accompanied by a publicly critical statement. The 32 NFL teams fire 6-8 head coaches every year, and slightly fewer GMs / football execs, and with only rare exceptions those are all following a season rather than midseason. If you're going to shitcan someone midseason, for performance reasons rather than misconduct (which is what this is - his actions were collectively ill-advised, but not against the rules), I don't think anyone would seriously object to Khan showing some grace while doing so, or perhaps waiting a little longer between the union's statement and Khan's actions so that it doesn't look like a knee-jerk PR move.
 

Oil Can Dan

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One of my favorite Coughlin moments was when he chewed out his punter after blowing a 21 point lead vs the Eagles. I was in the booth next to the Giants owners box during this game and the curse words coming out of that box would make a sailor blush. Then when leaving the stadium via the tunnel a gold cart whizzed past me with DeSean Jackson sitting in the back waving an Eagles jersey off the side yelling "EAGLES! EAGLES!". The entire thing was surreal...

 

Shelterdog

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I think Florio’s point isn’t that Khan should have kept Coughlin – but that he should have showed a 2x SB-winning coach some deference in how he was relieved of his position by allowing him to resign.

I’m not sure I agree with that point given that the reputation of the team sounds like it was at stake. But that read to me more like what Florio was getting at.
Going with the ten minutes early joke, they did want him to think they fired him at the end of the season, which is why they fired him two weeks early.

It seems like Coughlin tried to have it both ways--run a tight ship but draft talented but undisciplined guys. Ramsay and Fournette and Fowler are all great talents and they might be great people, but they're all also clearly big personalities who aren't necessarily going to follow orders in a strict enviornment the same way that maybe a Devin McCourty will.
 

singaporesoxfan

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Fair point, though I imagine the firing itself is what will reassure the players and the NFLPA more than any words uttered on anyone's behalf.

But I'd say there's a lot of room between "whitewashing" and perp-walking him out of the building accompanied by a publicly critical statement. The 32 NFL teams fire 6-8 head coaches every year, and slightly fewer GMs / football execs, and with only rare exceptions those are all following a season rather than midseason. If you're going to shitcan someone midseason, for performance reasons rather than misconduct (which is what this is - his actions were collectively ill-advised, but not against the rules), I don't think anyone would seriously object to Khan showing some grace while doing so, or perhaps waiting a little longer between the union's statement and Khan's actions so that it doesn't look like a knee-jerk PR move.
You can’t conflate labour and management under how Khan treats his employees. You’ve got a situation with labour that’s so bad the union is advising FAs against signing. The cause of that is management, specifically Coughlin. While people wouldn’t necessarily object to waiting, an earlier firing also allows Khan to send a signal that he really is serious about changing the draconian culture that Coughlin instituted
 

uncannymanny

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Read it as, let’s say he was 3 minutes early (real time). That is less than the 5 minutes early he’s supposed to be. Walks into the building to see himself not 2 minutes late but 3 minutes early on the wall clock.

I could also be reading it wrong. Setting the clocks 5 minutes fast is a stupid thing to do.
 

lexrageorge

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Funny that Coughlin was so strict with the rules he wanted his players to follow. But he had no problem blowing off the league's rules simply because he didn't agree with them. The silver lining is that it appears that most of the players got most of their fine money returned to them via the grievance procedure.

And, according to his agent, Coughlin wants to return to the NFL in some capacity. Good luck with that; he done.
 

joe dokes

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Funny that Coughlin was so strict with the rules he wanted his players to follow. But he had no problem blowing off the league's rules simply because he didn't agree with them. The silver lining is that it appears that most of the players got most of their fine money returned to them via the grievance procedure.

And, according to his agent, Coughlin wants to return to the NFL in some capacity. Good luck with that; he done.
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