Tom Brady: Support and Bankability

luckiestman

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Jul 15, 2005
11,284
When TB12 goes goop and woo with his wife in retirement, are you guys going to turn on him? I have a feeling it's coming (it's kind of already here, let's be honest). I don't mind it, but that type of stuff is normally frowned upon here.
 
Dec 6, 2017
86
Ann Arbor, MI
When TB12 goes goop and woo with his wife in retirement, are you guys going to turn on him? I have a feeling it's coming (it's kind of already here, let's be honest). I don't mind it, but that type of stuff is normally frowned upon here.
Am I missing understanding of a common phrase? I have no idea what you're saying here.
 

luckiestman

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Jul 15, 2005
11,284
Am I missing understanding of a common phrase? I have no idea what you're saying here.
Goop is a lifestyle brand. People accuse the brand of promoting woo*. TB12 method stuff shares some of these characteristics. I expect Tom to really promote this type of stuff once he retires. I have no problem with it, but it might be little out there for some of our SoSH bretheren.


*from rational wiki:
Woo, also called woo-woo, is a term for pseudoscientific explanations that share certain common characteristics, often being too good to be true (aside from being unscientific). The term is common among skeptical writers. Woo is understood specifically as dressing itself in the trappings of science (but not the substance) while involving unscientific concepts, such as anecdotal evidence and sciencey-sounding words.

Woo is usually not the description of an effect but of the explanation as to why the effect occurs. For example: "Homeopathy is effective (even when no molecule of the active ingredient remains in the final product) because the solution retains a memory of the solute."—the explanation for these results, e.g. water memory, is woo.

Woo is used to blind or distract an audience from a real explanation or to discourage people from delving deeper into the subject to find a more realistic explanation. You can't make money if nobody buys your bullshit. (As such, "woo" that has zero paying customers is more like just ordinary batshit crazy.)

Despite the terrible name, it has become quite a popular term within the skeptical movement—probably because it's fun to say.
 

InstaFace

MDLzera
Sep 27, 2016
7,590
so you're asking if, in retirement, should Tom Brady and Gisele Bundchen promote bullshit products through pseudoscientific pretensions in order to make money, will his current footballing fans "turn on him"?

I hardly know where to start...

- I enjoy watching him play football. once that's done, I'm going to have a lot of goodwill towards him for all the joy he gave me doing that.
- That means he's going to get the benefit of the doubt, and an instinctive defense of his reputation, from most of us
- I already don't much care for what he promotes with TB12 and his methods, though I think at worst they're harmless and not particularly costly to anyone who tries it out with stars in their eyes.
- His ability to promote bullshit declines dramatically from his point of retirement
- If "turning on him" amounts to "continuing to not invest time and money into his methods or associated products", then sure, I guess we've mostly all done so already. But if you meant something else, like we'd say he's dead to us and act like we're offended, I'm really not following the line of thinking that brings you there.
- Nor am I sure what you mean by such turning-on-him being "kind of already here, let's be honest", but I'm not sure I've seen a post about Brady here that spoke about him in anything less than hagiographic tones, unless it was in-the-moment frustration about a certain play or game.
- There's a SoSHer married to a fairly famous celebrity who promotes what you'd call "woo" here, in service of her lifestyle brand. Why not take him to task first, before pre-emptively taking Brady fans to task for a hypothetical?
 
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luckiestman

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Jul 15, 2005
11,284
- There's a SoSHer married to a fairly famous celebrity who promotes what you'd call "woo" here, in service of her lifestyle brand. Why not take him to task first, before pre-emptively taking Brady fans to task for a hypothetical? I can think of a few possible answers, none of them very flattering.
I'm not taking anyone to task. I already mentioned Goop and I have no problem with it. So why would I ask someone's spouse about it.

This topic came up on a BS podcast briefly* (Don't rmember the guest, it was right before the superbowl...maybe Jason Gay from WSJ)

*edit: short discussion starts around 56:00
 
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InstaFace

MDLzera
Sep 27, 2016
7,590
I'm still not following the connection between "you guys" (Brady fans here) being fans of watching him play football, and being fans of whatever products he attempts to sell, as if normal people don't have multiple differing opinions about different things.

I'm likewise not following the imagined chain of events where he retires, he ramps up his lifestyle-brand business, it continues to be pseudoscientific, and... what exactly constitutes "turning on him", again? Toppling the statue of him that they'll have put up outside Gillette the day he retires?
 

luckiestman

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Jul 15, 2005
11,284
I'm still not following the connection between "you guys" (Brady fans here) being fans of watching him play football, and being fans of whatever products he attempts to sell, as if normal people don't have multiple differing opinions about different things.

I'm likewise not following the imagined chain of events where he retires, he ramps up his lifestyle-brand business, it continues to be pseudoscientific, and... what exactly constitutes "turning on him", again? Toppling the statue of him that they'll have put up outside Gillette the day he retires?

Well, I'm putting you down for a giant YES
 

azsoxpatsfan

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May 23, 2014
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Tom Brady is a diety to me. I don’t care what sub-scientific thing he promotes, I will never say a bad thing about him
 

SumnerH

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Jul 18, 2005
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When TB12 goes goop and woo with his wife in retirement, are you guys going to turn on him? I have a feeling it's coming (it's kind of already here, let's be honest). I don't mind it, but that type of stuff is normally frowned upon here.
He's a great player, and his prep work is amazing. I love watching him play.

I don't need him to be retired to say that his nonsense with the TB12 stuff, anti-inflammatory diet, etc, is pretty annoying. It's at least not anti-vax level harmful, but it's unfortunate, and if he goes all-in on scam diets to make money it'll absolutely color my opinion of him. It's sort of anti-Belichickian.
 

BornToRun

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Jun 4, 2011
11,411
Tom Brady is a diety to me. I don’t care what sub-scientific thing he promotes, I will never say a bad thing about him
I’m pretty much here. While I usually don’t have a whole of tolerance for woo and the like, he’s Tom F’ing Brady. He’ll be god to me forever unless he does something truly terrible. And I think, and I admit I obviously have some bias here, that he legitimately believes in his method and wants to help people. He doesn’t strike me as just your garden variety snake oil salesman.
 

tims4wins

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If Brady just wanted to make a quick buck, he could have already done it in about a million different ways. The first of which would be taking more salary from the Pats. Selling TB12 Method books is peanuts compared to everything else.
 

Old Fart Tree

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Tom Brady is a beautiful dancing show pony who throws pretty touchdown passes. That’s it and that’s all. I do not rely on him for political insight or nutrition/wellness. He can go full schilling post retirement as far as I care. (Well, that’s a stretch. Id be disappointed if he went full Schilling. But hock your sunburn preventing water all you want, I don’t care.)
 

Jimbodandy

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It's fair to bring up the possibility of Brady amping some psuedocsience products and losing some love here. Good reference point is the reaction to Kyrie's flat earth nonsense earlier this year. A ton of people here overreacted to that, because they're understandably on guard against the unfortunate antiscience movements in the US.

I think it's premature to wonder too much about that now, but I don't fault anyone for wondering out loud.
 

brandonchristensen

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He already promotes Aston Martin's, and I've shown my resilience to my fandom by driving a Kia instead.

So he doesn't have THAT much power over me.
 

Devizier

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- I enjoy watching him play football. once that's done, I'm going to have a lot of goodwill towards him for all the joy he gave me doing that.
- That means he's going to get the benefit of the doubt, and an instinctive defense of his reputation, from most of us
The big jump is between points one and two.

Brady's admirable accomplishments on the field lend absolutely no credibility to his endorsements off of it. To use a direct example, Dan Marino's success on the football field has no bearing on whether magnetic leg bands work to treat knee injuries (they do not, for what it's worth).
 

lexrageorge

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Jul 31, 2007
7,303
I guess it depends a lot what Brady is promoting.

If he promotes his TB12 methods and diets to athletes and celebrities and other rich folks, I don't really care all that much. Publishing $300 cookbooks and pajamas doesn't bother me in the least. For some reason, I don't see Brady doing late night infomercials to insomniac housewives. Or doing ads for The Money Store (1980's reference).

I could see some folks being annoyed if Brady starting pitching fake "cures" or something similar to everyday people. Granted, I should never underestimate the power of greed, but such a course of action seems unlikely to me.
 

pappymojo

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I think he truly believes in most of his diet stuff. I don't think he is selling it to make a buck. I think he is selling it because he thinks it works and it will help people be healthier. Most of his advice isn't bad. We should all drink more water and eat more of a plant-based diet.

There was a post somewhere recently about Belichick and Spygate that basically said Belichick feels like he needs to work harder/do more. Even when he has done all the necessary prep work for a game he feels the need to do more. That is how Belichick is wired and this drives him to obsessively hoard tapes to watch even if there was a negligible positive impact on his game planning.

I feel like Brady takes his diet to a similar level of obsession but let's face it - he looks healthier today than he did 15 years ago.
 

RGREELEY33

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Nov 28, 2005
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I think he truly believes in most of his diet stuff. I don't think he is selling it to make a buck. I think he is selling it because he thinks it works and it will help people be healthier. Most of his advice isn't bad. We should all drink more water and eat more of a plant-based diet.

There was a post somewhere recently about Belichick and Spygate that basically said Belichick feels like he needs to work harder/do more. Even when he has done all the necessary prep work for a game he feels the need to do more. That is how Belichick is wired and this drives him to obsessively hoard tapes to watch even if there was a negligible positive impact on his game planning.

I feel like Brady takes his diet to a similar level of obsession but let's face it - he looks healthier today than he did 15 years ago.
I agree with a lot of this. I don’t think TB12 is trying to make money as much as he believes in the stuff and wants to change how people think about their health and nutrition. As someone who has partaken in the gluten-free “fad” the last 9 months and seen ALL of my 25 year-long gastrointestinal issues and almost ALL of my arthritic/inflammatory joint issues virtually disappear overnight, it doesn’t seem like a stretch to think hydration and diet play a large role in what ills society. To me, people jump all over the “concussion water” stuff but ignore the main tenants which seem to be hydration, plant-based diet, stretching etc. I think the criticism surrounding Guerrero is fair — and I think TB12 is generally a weird dude whom I probably wouldn’t hang out with, but so much of the TB12 method stuff is blown way out of proportion in my opionion.

Also, he could eat little children and I will still love him.
 

TomTerrific

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When TB12 goes goop and woo with his wife in retirement, are you guys going to turn on him? I have a feeling it's coming (it's kind of already here, let's be honest). I don't mind it, but that type of stuff is normally frowned upon here.
Some (though not all) of the ideas Brady has associated himself with are, frankly, kooky and unsupported by facts. He may well end up peddling or standing for things that seem just as or more kooky to me in the years to come. He has also brought me great joy as a Pats fan, and has achievements unlikely to be seen again in the NFL. I look forward to remembering and contemplating his and the Pats' football achievements for as long as I'm around.

I don't have any trouble keeping both of those thought streams in my head simultaneously, and don't anticipate any trouble with it going forward.

Next I suppose you'll ask when we're going to start writing letters advocating the revocation of Oskar Schindler's Righteous Among Nations designation because of the various and sundry swindles he engaged in throughout his life.
 

soxhop411

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Dec 4, 2009
34,110
Honestly, the stuff that Brady is pedaling is harmless (and doesn't hurt anyone) so I really wouldn't be bothered by it...

Now if he starts leading the charge for something that can actually harm people like the Ant- Vaxx movement.....
 

Trautwein's Degree

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Short of raping kids or beating women or going Curt Schilling - I will always love Tom Brady.
 

DrewDawg

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I'll bump this thread when he retires, until then there's actual fun shit to talk about regarding him.
 

Number45forever

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Tom Brady is the best athlete I'll ever root for. He seems like a genuinely kind and hard-working guy who is universally adored by his teammates and coaches, i.e. people who actually know him. There is nothing short of a full Schilling (and no one should ever go full Schilling) that will ever have me turn in the slightest against Tom Brady.

Further, if TB12 says the TB12 method has helped him sustain his career, then I believe it's worthwhile.

The only wish I have is that, once he does retire in 4-6 yeas, he doesn't completely disappear. Seeing him back at Pats, games, etc., for the next few decades will be a lot of fun.

Long live Tom Brady.
 

johnmd20

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Further, if TB12 says the TB12 method has helped him sustain his career, then I believe it's worthwhile.
Seriously. TB12 is a lifestyle process that focuses on health and low inflammation. It has helped Brady quite a bit. The proof is that Brady is 41, he never gets hurt and, um, he just won the Super Bowl.
 

Kliq

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Mar 31, 2013
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Seriously. TB12 is a lifestyle process that focuses on health and low inflammation. It has helped Brady quite a bit. The proof is that Brady is 41, he never gets hurt and, um, he just won the Super Bowl.
Exactly; maybe it wouldn't work for everyone but clearly Brady's lifestyle has aided him in sustaining his personal health and fitness to some degree. Some of the stuff he does seems pretty questionable, but other things, such as stressing flexibility over muscle-mass, seem pretty logical to my unscientific brain.
 

InstaFace

MDLzera
Sep 27, 2016
7,590
It's also tuned to his particular needs as an athlete. Not a lot of us have to worry about taking bone-crunching hits 30+ times a year.

Successful Person doing Thing X and becoming successful, therefore believing they are successful because of Thing X, and going out trying to promote Thing X as essential for everyone - that's such a common mistake of thinking that we have a latin phrase for it (something about a tiger rock, I think). I'm not gonna look askance at him overvaluing his idea.
 

Marciano490

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Nov 4, 2007
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It’s pretty common for athletes to believe whatever they’ve done is the best of all possible methods. There’s almost a superstition to it. And there’s no real way to prove or disprove them. Like some people thing a steak or a beer or whatever is what made them successful.

I knew a guy, jacked as hell, did the same workout every day. He was convinced that was the way to lift. He was bigger than me, so what could I say?
 

luckiestman

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It’s pretty common for athletes to believe whatever they’ve done is the best of all possible methods. There’s almost a superstition to it. And there’s no real way to prove or disprove them. Like some people thing a steak or a beer or whatever is what made them successful.

I knew a guy, jacked as hell, did the same workout every day. He was convinced that was the way to life. He was bigger than me, so what could I say?

Firas, GSP's trainer, talks about this exact thing. He says he often gets in arguments with GSP because GSP is convinced that everyone should train the way he does. Firas says something like "George, you've only trained yourself, I have trained thousands of people"

I'm actually really interested in why the woo stuff seems to work. Almost every top performer is religous in some way, whether traditionally or at least adhering to a life philosophy in a devout way. It seems the devotion leads to results regardless of the exact set of beliefs and practices.
 

Devizier

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I'm actually really interested in why the woo stuff seems to work. Almost every top performer is religous in some way, whether traditionally or at least adhering to a life philosophy in a devout way. It seems the devotion leads to results regardless of the exact set of beliefs and practices.
Neurobiologists have been studying the placebo effect for upwards of seventy years now and there are, at best, only partial explanations for why it works.
 

allstonite

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Oct 27, 2010
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It’s pretty common for athletes to believe whatever they’ve done is the best of all possible methods. There’s almost a superstition to it. And there’s no real way to prove or disprove them. Like some people thing a steak or a beer or whatever is what made them successful.

I knew a guy, jacked as hell, did the same workout every day. He was convinced that was the way to lift. He was bigger than me, so what could I say?
This is absolutely true and why the TB12 stuff doesn’t bother me that much if he thinks it works and doesn’t get him suspended. In the Lane Johnson’s infamous “Patriots don’t have fun” PMT interview, he was also cracking jokes about the TB12 method and nightshades. A few minutes later he was preaching about cold exposure and holding his breath as reasons he’s been able to stay healthy. He weirdly didn’t bring up all the steroids
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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The diet stuff is probably alright once you take out the more outrageous claims (like only using non-iodized salt, or whatever).

The TB12 exercise work (pliability) seems to be the key for him in terms of avoiding injury. He doesn't want to get bulked up, he wants to remain flexible.



The guy is not exactly David Boston or LeRon Landry out there.
 

luckiestman

Son of the Harpy
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Jul 15, 2005
11,284
The diet stuff is probably alright once you take out the more outrageous claims (like only using non-iodized salt, or whatever).

The TB12 exercise work (pliability) seems to be the key for him in terms of avoiding injury. He doesn't want to get bulked up, he wants to remain flexible.



The guy is not exactly David Boston or LeRon Landry out there.

Only using non-iodized salt is weird. I've read that the prevalence of non-iodized salt is a problem for thyroid especially in men (leads to low testosterone type issues). I need to look into this more.
 

Bunt Single

lurker
Aug 11, 2010
20
Tom Brady is a diety to me. I don’t care what sub-scientific thing he promotes....
Before this post gets totally submerged in the more serious conversation that followed, let's all just pause and recognize what an entirely apt and awesome typo this was.

edit: perhaps a thread title? Tom Brady: Diety or Deity?
 

luckiestman

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Jul 15, 2005
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Before this post gets totally submerged in the more serious conversation that followed, let's all just pause and recognize what an entirely apt and awesome typo this was.

edit: perhaps a thread title? Tom Brady: Diety or Deity?

Good observation and suggestion by you. I might be in real trouble if people are reading SoSH this closely.
 

Marciano490

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Nov 4, 2007
35,059
Only using non-iodized salt is weird. I've read that the prevalence of non-iodized salt is a problem for thyroid especially in men (leads to low testosterone type issues). I need to look into this more.
That is really odd. I know Stan Efferding, who is a very successful powerlifter and bodybuilder, has been pushing a diet that stresses high intake of iodized salt because of its effect on thyroid production.
 

Ralphwiggum

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The more interesting question to me is what do we do if he goes full Schilling. 2004 meant more to me than almost anything not involving my kids and I have a hard time watching any part of it involving Schilling. If you take that and multiply it by 6 and then make Schilling the starting pitcher in every game that gets complicated.

Short of that though I don’t give a fuck.
 

Old Fart Tree

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My guess is he’ll express a bunch of political views I don’t share, and I won’t care. I don’t think he’ll go full schilling and express some really deplorable, hateful views, so I’ll shrug and watch one of the six (!?) super bowl videos.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Dec 4, 2005
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Aside from going full Schilling, I’d also be disappointed if he went full Scientologist.
Why? Who gives a shit what his personal stuff is? Don't murder anyone or commit sexual assault and you're good.

Will Smith, Tom Cruise, Jerry Seinfeld, John Travolta, Giovani Ribisi,Juliette Lewis..Beck, Doug E Fresh...do you not watch or listen to anything from these people? Don't like Mad Men because Elisabeth Moss is a scientologist? Refuse to watch the Simpsons because Nancy Cartwright is one?

Schilling is obviously a racist and offensive person and I'd be heartbroken if Brady went that way but I don't think that's even in the ballpark of outcomes. I could give two shits about what religion he practices, just like his diet, his workout routine or his personal life. Yeah, it's not for me and seems like a scam and crazy, but religious freedom is kinda one of the tenets of this country. Practice whatever the F you want, just don't jam it down peoples throat.

Other than his business ventures, I think we see very little of Tom Brady after he retires. I think he's tired of it all, but tolerates it for the game.
 

bankshot1

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Outside of a MAGA hat in his locker (presumably given to him from Kraft on a request from Trump) is there any reason to believe there is a far-right wing nut job/racist residing inside TB12? I'm a fan and blind to reason, but is there any evidence that he exhibits hateful behavior of any kind?
 

Ralphwiggum

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Outside of a MAGA hat in his locker (presumably given to him from Kraft on a request from Trump) is there any reason to believe there is a far-right wing nut job/racist residing inside TB12? I'm a fan and blind to reason, but is there any evidence that he exhibits hateful behavior of any kind?
No and his wife seems to be a champion of conservation and other causes that are fairly anti-MAGA, so I find it hard to believe he’s anything like Schilling. But who knows what any of these guys are really like.

It does sort of pain me to think that he might be a Trump supporter but I can even live with that so long as he’s not a flaming racist asshole like Schilling.