I've got the MRI and post-scope pics of my knees, and I agree with DRS that the pics in there way more clearly showed the f'd up nature of my cartilage. But then again, I am no radiologist! One way or the other hope TL gets well soon!I disagree!!
Timelord Injury Watch
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In all seriousness, the scope will definitely help fill in any details but they will know the type and basic extent of the tear before they go in and have a "probable plan". Especially in these high level cases when the MRI is closely scrutinized by multiple people.
The meniscus is a C shaped structure that cushions the periphery of the inner and outer compartments of the knee (you have 2, one medial and one lateral). In basketball players the 2 types of "bad" lateral mensicsus tears requiring fixation and long rehab I see come of 2 main varieties.
1. "Bucket handle" type tear. When a bucket handle tear is lateral, usually the structures holding the posterior portion of the "C" tear near the posterior capsule and the posterior horn flips anteriorly against the anterior horn. It causes a lot of pain and often locking of the knee. You need to bring the posterior horn back into place, suture it back to the posterior capsule, and let it heal. Out for season in this case.
2. Large radial "split" tear. In this case, there is a large cleft from the inner aspect of the meniscus toward the outer capsule causing the mensicsus to pull apart and lose it's shock absorption. It's not a tear you can really fix by trimming without losing a huge chunk of the meniscus (bad idea). This also requires a repair and long period of rest/rehab to heal. Out for the season in this case.
There are certainly many many other types of tears, some of which may be more amenable to a trim and quick return. If he has one of these 2 I mentioned, he really should have it repaired if at all possible. He's young and has a long career ahead of him. I'm sure he will get many opinions in the next day or two and they'll come up with a plan soon.
The meniscus is a C shaped structure that cushions the periphery of the inner and outer compartments of the knee (you have 2, one medial and one lateral). In basketball players the 2 types of "bad" lateral mensicsus tears requiring fixation and long rehab I see come of 2 main varieties.
1. "Bucket handle" type tear. When a bucket handle tear is lateral, usually the structures holding the posterior portion of the "C" tear near the posterior capsule and the posterior horn flips anteriorly against the anterior horn. It causes a lot of pain and often locking of the knee. You need to bring the posterior horn back into place, suture it back to the posterior capsule, and let it heal. Out for season in this case.
2. Large radial "split" tear. In this case, there is a large cleft from the inner aspect of the meniscus toward the outer capsule causing the mensicsus to pull apart and lose it's shock absorption. It's not a tear you can really fix by trimming without losing a huge chunk of the meniscus (bad idea). This also requires a repair and long period of rest/rehab to heal. Out for the season in this case.
There are certainly many many other types of tears, some of which may be more amenable to a trim and quick return. If he has one of these 2 I mentioned, he really should have it repaired if at all possible. He's young and has a long career ahead of him. I'm sure he will get many opinions in the next day or two and they'll come up with a plan soon.
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With the trade deadline passed, what are the avenues for the C's to get someone beyond Morgan right now? Street FA and G league only?
It hurts obviously, but the teams ceiling is still tied to Tatum. The defense will still be excellent, and if we get this Tatum? And Jaylen keeping up his play? The Bucks are still the only team in the East that I’d be really worried about.
I’d also submit that a lurking TL near the basket on O helped JT and others on drives. You’d see the opposing C get caught often in no man’s land as he knew if he committed to the driver he risked an easy alley-oop. It created nice lanes during the present run.
The minutes without Tatum will be where this REALLY hurts IMO. Rob and Jaylen have good chemistry, and he is JB’s safety net when driving.
JB and others have to develop something close to that chemistry with Theis now. There isn't really another option to this.
Surgery was always contemplated but the things going against a quick return are :
1. Ime saying he was in a lot of pain after the game. If this pain is related to the meniscus, I'd worry it means a big tear with displaced tissue, maybe locking of the knee from the bucket handle type tear I mentioned above.
2. The fact they they know he needs surgery so quickly. Some of the more minor lateral meniscus tears are irritating but calm down after a bit and it's not always certain the etiology of the lateral pain or if surgery is needed. The fact that they already know it's a surgical case isn't great news for the "quick trim and back in 4 weeks idea".
If I had to guess, he has a significant tear with displaced meniscal tissue. If this is fixable, they really should fix it and let him miss the season. If its unfixable, that's bad news long term, though I suppose leaved the door open for a return later in the playoffs.
1. Ime saying he was in a lot of pain after the game. If this pain is related to the meniscus, I'd worry it means a big tear with displaced tissue, maybe locking of the knee from the bucket handle type tear I mentioned above.
2. The fact they they know he needs surgery so quickly. Some of the more minor lateral meniscus tears are irritating but calm down after a bit and it's not always certain the etiology of the lateral pain or if surgery is needed. The fact that they already know it's a surgical case isn't great news for the "quick trim and back in 4 weeks idea".
If I had to guess, he has a significant tear with displaced meniscal tissue. If this is fixable, they really should fix it and let him miss the season. If its unfixable, that's bad news long term, though I suppose leaved the door open for a return later in the playoffs.
Good news is Tatum has some of that chemistry with Theis already, I think. Theis is good at sealing his defender, at setting screens, and if he gets hot from three, could be pretty useful.
The bad news is obviously Theis is not the same kind of roll, lob, or OREB threat. Rob is fourth in the league in dunks with 157. Theis is 91st with 36, but he's missed a lot of time this year and played with a bunch of incompetents. Last year he was 27th in the league with 71.
Where this hurts the most is the rim protection. Al and Theis can replace some of that, but we are just not the same team defensively without him. Everyone knows that already, I know, but man does it suck.
Any player who was a Free agent by Mar. 1 can be signed and is playoff eligible.
So for example Willie Cauley-Stein who was waived March 4 is ineligible for the playoffs, but a guy who wasn't on an NBA roster would be eligible.
Here is the formula to winning without TL in the playoffs:
1. SmartJAYs each play 40++ mpg
2. Grant slides into starting lineup, parks himself into the CornerOffice & drills them at a 50% clip
3. Horford takes over Rob's role, help/Free Safety on D and the dunker spot on O
Theis does a lot of the things Rob did, just not as explosively. I’m guessing Ime (eventually) plays Theis in the Rob role, keeps Grant as the first big off the bench, and fills in minutes with Nesmith or possibly Hauser.
Theis is a walking foul machine, just don't think we'll get a whole lot of minutes out of him.
Started a playoff mpg thread, since it's something we kick around every season
Regarding Rob’s torn meniscus if the tear, I still get confused reading this. If the tear can’t be fixed, Rob MAY be able to play again this year. What does a tear that can’t be fixed do to his knee health long term and it is a greater chance that he has a shorter career?
If it’s a tear that requires surgery but can’t be fixed then yeah…. probably not great news for his long term health.
Can’t be definitive since we’re guessing on a lot of the details, but in that case likely they would resect some of the meniscus that is causing whatever problem is currently going on.
He would lose some of that cushioning the meniscus provides and it could lead to accelerated arthritis.
Both tweet reads that they are deciding which procedure to do prior to going in so I’m confused here. If the player doesn’t like the teams decision they have the right to a second opinion. It will be interesting to see what comes of this and what type of arrangement is made.
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Medical insight is great and all but …
View: https://twitter.com/rob_williamsiii/status/1508617815842033667?s=21&t=ho8221ZoZCkhFlpp2qzsSg
View: https://twitter.com/rob_williamsiii/status/1508617815842033667?s=21&t=ho8221ZoZCkhFlpp2qzsSg
I havent finished the thread...
What % of meniscal tears are non op? I tore mine playing adult league soccer, no surg / scope, and just needed 4 weeks rest.
I get we have limited info into the severity (eg bucket handle wasnt mentioned).
He seemed to play 1-2 quarters after injury - pure speculation - could he rest for a few weeks and play in the playoffs? Followed by offseason scope.
Assuming Ime is representing the Celtics in the media he said that there will be surgery. The part that I’m confused by is that he is saying that different procedures are being considered (apparently one by the team and another by TL’s agent) while DRS said that the type of procedure wouldn’t be determined until they go in.
Nobody knows how intense these discussions are but that is typically the case. The team is concerned with getting the player on the court and the agent is concerned with positioning his client to set up best for his next contract and beyond.
Given the way it's been reported, likely not.
If they already know he needs surgery and it's debate of repair vs resection, it's almost certainly very different and more significant than your tear.
Never know for sure but Brad seems like a reasonable guy who isn't going to force any short term gain for a big risk of long term issues. Plus, Rob is under contract for 3 more seasons so the Celtics have a vested interest beyond this season.
These decisions are often complex, players sometimes want to play through things against their own long term interests. That tweet from RW kind of sheds light on that mentality. Often need other voices of reason in the room to help them see the best decision.
Ya. Mine was a minor lateral anterior. Good ole n of 1
I posted before seeing all the info with Ime saying surgery imminent. Really sucks
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7237395/
Tangentially related to your previous post, lots of meniscus tears are non-op. 30% of asymptomatic people have a meniscus tear so there is a lot of gray area here and every tear definitely does not require a scope.
Plenty of people hurt their knee, get an MRI with a "meniscus tear", do non-op and end up pain free in a month. Very often the pain had nothing to do with the meniscus tear in the first place and the tear probably had been there before the injury.
Unfortunately for Rob, it doesn't look like he is in this group.
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Probably a slightly lesser tension around this issue than normal here, given he's under contract for 4 years already. He still wants to get some sort of $200M megadeal obviously in 4 years, but the Celtics' interests are fairly aligned in keeping him healthy for at least the next 4 years (fairly long as far as things go).
This is some terrible quarterbacking. He came out of the game for good with 2:46 left in the 3rd quarter.
A lot of the back and forth at this point probably comes down to where he’s having the surgery and by whom, both of which the player, his agent, and the team will weigh in on
I once hurt my hands, and I even thought I had broken them. The doctor had a look and said that they were in fact broken but they'd eventually be fine. I then asked whether I'd be able to play the piano when they healed, and he responded "absolutely", and I said that I was happy to hear that because I'd never played the piano before.
I think jose's comment is a variation of my bad joke.
I assumed as such, I was just double checking. Maybe Acie Earl is his brother and had some surgery I'm unaware of or something.
Question for our in-house doctors:
Why would Williams not have had the surgery the day after his injury, or ASAP in general? Is there swelling that needs to subside before doctors can operate? Does he have to first do some pre-surgery "rehab," as with a torn ACL?
Seems like the sooner they operate, the sooner they would know the severity of the injury (and whether Rob might be able to return this season).
Why would Williams not have had the surgery the day after his injury, or ASAP in general? Is there swelling that needs to subside before doctors can operate? Does he have to first do some pre-surgery "rehab," as with a torn ACL?
Seems like the sooner they operate, the sooner they would know the severity of the injury (and whether Rob might be able to return this season).
He suffered the injury Sunday night, and was evaluated by Monday. There were obviously a lot of discussions around the treatment options, with the team, Williams, and Williams' agent all needing to agree on a course of action. Probably final decision was arrived at late Monday, and then Williams needs time to prepare. And it's also possible that the operating team was backed up with more urgent cases as the CoVid backlog is still being worked through.
Surger is supposed to happen today, which is really not all that much of a delay.
Thanks. I didn't realize a date for the operation had been set. Two-plus days is definitely not a significant delay.
4-6 weeks per Woj. Wow!
View: https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1509144540543913984?s=21&t=MpS9KN47wBzldczCqlWEQA
View: https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1509144540543913984?s=21&t=MpS9KN47wBzldczCqlWEQA
