Time to trade Devers?

[Fishy1]

Again, you're comparing apples to anvils here (not even oranges). Harper HAD to play first base if he was going to play the year after TJ surgery. There was no DH in the NL at that time and he literally couldn't throw. But he could hit. The Phils wisely stuck him at first and he did well. But Harper was already a pretty good outfielder to begin with, something that Devers at 3B never was. Mookie came through the Red Sox as a middle infielder, he switched to outfield (in the minors) because he was blocked at short (Bogaerts) and second (Pedroia). If Betts wanted to make the majors, he had to change positions. He did. And BTW, he did this over a season/off season where he was helped by his uncle former MLB utility guy Terry Shumpert. Devers didn't have that luxury. So Mookie playing SS for the Dodgers is like slipping into an old pair of shoes for him. Schwarber wasn't a very good first baseman when the Sox stuck him there. Remember when he caught a pop up and Fenway went bananas like Kyle from Waltham was a Make a Wish kid? It's because he was an adventure over there. And Schwarber came up as a catcher, moved to the outfield and then first; so the guy knows a bit about position changes.

Who is their in-house DH? Matsuzaka? So your solution to a team that has a bunch of lineup holes is to take a guy who has shown that it's not easy for him to make a position change (Devers) and stick him at first. Then to replace him, stick Matsuzaka (who hasn't had any at bats all season) as DH. That's what you're suggesting?

Why doesn't Bregman play first base? "Oh, you're getting paid $40M a year, can't you move positions for the better of the team?" What about Story? Move him to first and bring up Mayer.



Maybe Devers IS doing what's best for the team. The team (Breslow and the FO) told him that he sucks at a position that he's played for the entirety of his professional life. Not only did they say he stinks there, they needed to spend $40M a year to bring in his replacement. AND they told him to burn his glove. Maybe, just maybe, Devers' confidence in his defensive game is in the shitter. Maybe he doesn't want to hurt the team more by bringing his iron glove to first--a pretty important position.

I would say at the very least he's probably confused about this whole situation. The manager and the FO said that Devers was not getting on the field to play defense this year. Now he's being asked to. At a brand new position?


If everyone could see that Devers was a bad third baseman, why is this the first time someone suggested picking up a first baseman's mitt. Maybe in the exit interview, Cora or Breslow could have said, "This winter work on being a first baseman. We can have someone come down and hit you grounders, you can play for a Winter League team, etc." Maybe be proactive, have a discussion and be a partner with the player that you're tied to for a decade plus.

No. Actually Breslow doesn't get it, I'd wager few people do. Breslow was lucky to make the Majors and he was lucky to play for as long as he did. Devers is not. Devers has been a star pretty much since he showed up in Boston (taking Chapman deep on a 101 MPH fast ball in like his first or second week). The guy is one of the top 25 Major Leaguers and even with his trash defense, a top five third baseman. Breslow was nowhere near that. Fair or not, stars don't bend. JAGs bend. Breslow was very much a JAG. He should know that Devers works on a completely different level.



I do appreciate it.

Look, I'm gonna do my best to lay aside the rancor because it sucks and I don't want to be like that.

I don't even disagree that in theory Devers confidence in his defense might be in the gutter, or that in theory the Red Sox could have handled talking to Devers about this better, but...I just don't think that's all that salient. The FO can deserve criticism and Devers can also be acting like an utter child. What's happening right now is the Red Sox approached the guy in private and asked him if he'd be open to trying out first base -- no word that they demanded it or said he had to, just that they really wanted him to -- and he responded by throwing a fit. In public.

I'm not saying you can't criticize the FO, again, I've said they probably handled this poorly. I don't know what happened behind closed doors or what's going on in Dever's head. I know the FO and Cora went to bat for him on public radio. Nobody tried to roast Devers about this, they said they were exploring options but that Devers at first base might not be the best thing for the team. They tried to handle this gracefully, even if they fucked up in Spring Training with how they dealt with it.

And again, you may be right that Devers at first base might not be the best thing for the team! Breslow himself said so. But that's not the point! The point is that Devers foreclosed any possibility of finding out if it could work and then made a stink about it in the media.

And I just really don't know how anyone could blame the FO for exploring Devers at first base. They've got an obvious opening there, the rest of the guys in the infield are comfortable where they are, and there's no reason to think Devers couldn't play a competent first base. I can even imagine a universe in which Devers was happy for the chance to play the field again. But I think his public comments make it clear this is mostly about his bitterness about being moved off third base...which, again, traditional stats like errors hate him over there, and the advanced stats think he's the worst regular with more than 3000 innings over the last ten years. And yeah, a lot of people's eye test hate him over there too. If I was terrible at part of my job and someone took that part away from me and gave it to someone else AND I didn't get fired or get a paycut...well, I'd count myself lucky. Guys lose their jobs in baseball all the time because of poor performance. Most of them don't get paid 30 million to do it, and most of them don't throw a fit over it. And a lot of them don't get an opportunity to play a position again after they play themselves off of it.

If anyone thinks coming to him over the offseason and saying "hey, be ready to play first base because we're going to bring someone in to take your job at third base, maybe, if we can" would have gone over much better, I don't know what to tell you.

I think fundamentally what it comes down to is this: you believe Devers being paid 30 million dollars entitles him to act this way. I think he's free to act however the hell he wants, but if he really cares about winning and about his team -- which he has the luxury to do as a guy who plays a game for a living for 30 million dollars a year -- he'd try to bury the hatchet with the FO, who may have fucked up but are doing their best to handle this gracefully in the media, and at least explore this option.

 

[TrotNixonRing]

Those of you who blame Breslow for this situation, I completely agree. He should not have caused that injury to Casas, that really hurt the club. And signing a 3b who is a MUCH better fielder than Devers (and a great hitter) was a bad move. Even though "corner infielder" is often referenced, it really is a myth, no 3b ever moves to 1b, except maybe Youk. And Devers is right to put his sensitive feelings and ego ahead of what's best for the club and most likely to lead to the most wins. Yeah, this is all on Breslow! /sarcasm

Could have saved yourself the trouble by posting this on Reddit or Twitter/X. Way to bring something interesting here.

respect your opinion as well, but I liked his post.

 

[Big Papi's Mango Salsa]

It's also incredibly rare to ask someone to play a position they've never played before in the middle of the season. It's just as rare for said player to take an interview where he just shits all over the GM of his team.

There's a lot going on here that's not normal and it's just not comparable to all of these other scenarios that I am seeing being thrown out here.

I get why Raffy is pissed. I get why he hates Breslow. I get why he feels the way he does. Doing that interview was 100% the wrong way to go about it.

At this point, I think the FO and Cora need to make a statement and take the pressure off of him. Something like we have no expectations of Devers playing 1B this year. CORA (with Breslow literally nowhere in sight) then has to speak with Devers and ask him to take grounders at first while assuring him that he won't be thrown out there until he's comfortable enough to be out there. I would guess that part of the issue is that Devers feels that Breslow's word is trash so he thinks he will be thrown out there when he's not ready. That's why Cora has to do the messaging

Just for the record, I agree so much with this.

As someone that absolutely felt (and still feels) that signing Bregman and moving Devers to DH was the absolute right move and needed to be done, I also don't think Breslow or anyone in the front office should have ever approached Devers about playing 1b at any point (and if anyone was going to, at all, even in passing, it needed to be Cora).

With an entire off-season to learn the position do I think it's feasible that Devers could be an adequate MLB 1b - yes, I think it's possible. Do I think it's "easy" or something he'd be necessarily able to do within a manner of weeks, no.

But simply in terms of a results on the field standpoint, the Bregman at 3b and Devers at DH thing has been a massive success. Bregman is on pace for what, a 9bWAR (no, I don't think he's going to finish there, but I think 5.5 or better is well within play) season and Devers is on pace for a 4 bWAR season (as a DH, and factoring in that atrocious start) and said 4 bWAR would have been his 3rd best season all in (he was 5.4 in 2019 and 4.5 in 2022). Casas going down absolutely sucked, and it'd have been great if Devers went to Cora and begged to play 1b for the good of the team, but the front office should not have been the one asking him to move.

However, certainly not like Devers is blameless here. I have no problem with him not wanting to move to 1b and having the mindset of "your job is to go find a 1b" - he's right. This wasn't the right way to go about it, and I can't imagine is great for the clubhouse.


Also, unless Devers requests it, AND someone takes on his entire deal and gives back something nice, there is no way they should trade him as he is still an excellent hitter. A 4.0 bWAR DH and a 5.0 bWAR 3b is pretty much what those of us advocating for this type of move were hoping would be the case. Either use the options you had in house (Gonzalez, Toro, Grissom, etc) or go find someone like Smith. No need to mess with something that is working incredibly well.

 

[BigSoxFan]

How is Devers the best possible solution? They acquired Bregman to replace him at third base. Do you think Devers will automatically become a good first baseman? They have a few players on the team and in the minors who would adapt to a first base switch a lot more quickly than Devers. How long did it take Devers to get over the switch to DH and begin hitting as he once did? Put him at first base and his hitting will go back down.

I don’t need Devers to be a gold glover. He needs to be decent and he already has experience doing many of the things 1B requires. But 1B defense isn’t really the biggest driver here, it’s getting the best possible bat in the lineup. That could be Yoshida, Anthony, etc. Devers at 1B gives this team more options than Devers at DH so I don’t blame them for trying.

You’re right that he may sulk and mope but that’s a Devers thing. As many have presented here, this isn’t a unique situation.

 

[JohntheBaptist]

Devers may well be pissed and have some strong reasons but “being jerked around” seems like a bad way of expressing it. There was a rather big incident, which involved a teammate getting a serious injury, not someone just deciding “Nah, I was just fucking with you, grab a glove.”

I think the issue is that the jerking around starts earlier, when he signed the extension, at least according to Raffy. He made reference to the fact that he was told one thing when he was signing that extension, presumably as a pitch to get him to sign it, and they went back on it. Reference has also been made to the fact that they were not entirely forthcoming or honest about first the Bregman pursuit, and then the positional approach when they got him.

Then he is saying they told him he was not playing the field at all and flipped on that, too. This is all if you believe his take on what happened. That's at least what seems to be his contention. He handled it exceptionally poorly, and it is only one side of the story, but if you assume its true, it is a ton of poor communication and, from his perspective, probably almost feels designed to piss him off.

Of course we can't assume anything, much less that his side is 100% correct. But this is a much longer story than what started with Casas' injury I think.

 

[chrisfont9]

Not something I say often but Carrabis does a nice job on this subject. Devers’ pride is wounded, and maybe that’s a Latin cultural difference? Generalizations are perilous, but it’s not saying this cultural difference, or whatever it is, makes him a bad guy. It’s just how he needs to process it. This storm will blow over.

They also had an interesting talk about how maybe Cora has more power than Breslow. Also maybe not a problem, provided Breslow understands and accepts it? We think of these jobs as strictly hierarchical, but hierarchies are often made by personality, and Cora’s experience at his job and with the club runs much deeper. Breslow seems to be good at acquisitions, especially pitching, and I’m encouraged by the audit/overhaul. But he doesn’t have to be the best at every aspect of running the club, especially being a first time GM.

 

[Archer1979]

This is one of those things where neither side is covering themselves in glory.

For Devers... he was self-admittedly put out that he had to move to the full-time DH. He should have grabbed a first-base mitt the second Casas went down and made the offer. Instead, he's saying that he was already asked to change positions once already this season. Now, granted I'm a fossil... but I do remember the days when the DH was used to give the guys playing the field a rest. It's not exactly a position since these guys are already hitting. And there are some psychological aspects in that you're not as locked into the game as a fielder, but... you're not really changing a position as much as you are doing a lot less for the team. I mean, even Yaz and Dewey played first... and these two are historically toward the top of their respective positions for the Sox. All that said, Devers should stay at DH. Moving him to first will be an unmitigated disaster.

Breslow and Cora... They failed in a couple spots. One... there should be a viable back-up plan for every position on the club. First base is probably the least physically demanding position. And they have no one with a good bat that can be plugged in. Maybe they thought Devers, but... these two were modern-era ball players. They should have known better Managing egos is a required skill-set. How could they have misread making this request of Devers this badly? If they want to contend this year, they need to get someone who had either played or can be easily converted to play first base and that can hit.

 

[moondog80]

If they told Devers in spring training "we want you to start taking ground balls at 1B", without any real intention to actually play him there barring a Casas injury, how do we think Devers would have taken that?

 

[Fishercat]

I think the issue is that the jerking around starts earlier, when he signed the extension, at least according to Raffy. He made reference to the fact that he was told one thing when he was signing that extension, presumably as a pitch to get him to sign it, and they went back on it. Reference has also been made to the fact that they were not entirely forthcoming or honest about first the Bregman pursuit, and then the positional approach when they got him.

Then he is saying they told him he was not playing the field at all and flipped on that, too. This is all if you believe his take on what happened. That's at least what seems to be his contention. He handled it exceptionally poorly, and it is only one side of the story, but if you assume its true, it is a ton of poor communication and, from his perspective, probably almost feels designed to piss him off.

Of course we can't assume anything, much less that his side is 100% correct. But this is a much longer story than what started with Casas' injury I think.

I think this is a good post as well. To me, it is important to remember that even your ideal athletes don't necessarily take teams acquiring their replacement super well - or without severe reflection. Tom Brady has openly discussed how he felt perplexed and upset over the Jimmy Garoppolo pick and how he had to react to the media discussion surrounding it. Favre/Rodgers was publicly complicated. And yes, the QB dynamic is way different because it's not like QB2 can become WR1 or anything like that, but I think a lot of the emotional, pride, and professional elements align. So he's feeling he signed a big deal with conditions surrounding his role during it, to have the team flip it on his head with a surprise transaction and positional swap...only to then come back hat in hand asking him to get back on the field after all of that...I get the confused feelings out of it.

This isn't to defend the public element but rather that I'm inclined to believe a pretty nonproblematic player doesn't suddenly turn into a PR nightmare off of solely one ill-timed GM request. He's dealt with far uglier times here before - I'm inclined to believe there is more here than meets the eye.

 

[chrisfont9]

One... there should be a viable back-up plan for every position on the club. First base is probably the least physically demanding position. And they have no one with a good bat that can be plugged in. Maybe they thought Devers, but... these two were modern-era ball players. They should have known better Managing egos is a required skill-set. How could they have misread making this request of Devers this badly? If they want to contend this year, they need to get someone who had either played or can be easily converted to play first base and that can hit.

Why don’t people take Romy seriously? Sometimes you need backups who accept being backups. I guess they could have signed a bigger name but nobody comes to mind, except Alonso, which would force a Casas trade. Romy was a decent choice for an already crowded roster.

 

[Fishercat]

If they told Devers in spring training "we want you to start taking ground balls at 1B", without any real intention to actually play him there barring a Casas injury, how do we think Devers would have taken that?

No idea - but I think if you came at him honestly with the intention of "we see you as our long-term DH but we would like you to have the flexibility to play the corners should the need arise", it'd have a better chance of success than the path they've taken so far - which seems to be that they were comfortable with Casas + the backup options in play...until they weren't.

 

[moondog80]

No idea - but I think if you came at him honestly with the intention of "we see you as our long-term DH but we would like you to have the flexibility to play the corners should the need arise", it'd have a better chance of success than the path they've taken so far - which seems to be that they were comfortable with Casas + the backup options in play...until they weren't.

You might be right. Given what we've seen from him, it's also possible he would have seen it as being jerked around even more and it would have made the situation worse. He barely got at bats during the spring in as it was.

(It's also possible that given his shoulder, it wasn't a good idea for him to take ground balls at 1B.)

 

[EvilEmpire]

If they told Devers in spring training "we want you to start taking ground balls at 1B", without any real intention to actually play him there barring a Casas injury, how do we think Devers would have taken that?

If Devers was willing to grab a 1B glove and starting getting some work, why wouldn't they play him there when Casas needed a day off or a DH day?

Of course they would. Cora and Breslow would be thrilled to have more options. I don't think anyone in management is thrilled with the idea of Devers locking down the DH slot for a bunch of years and a boatload of money. It isn't an elephant in the room. It's a whole herd of elephants.

Edit: And that discussion and process should have started as soon as Devers got healthy and before Casas got hurt.

 

[moondog80]

If Devers was willing to grab a 1B glove and starting getting some work, why wouldn't they play him there when Casas needed a day off or a DH day?

Of course they would. Cora and Breslow would be thrilled to have more options. I don't think anyone in management is thrilled with the idea of Devers locking down the DH slot for a bunch of years and a boatload of money. It isn't an elephant in the room. It's a whole herd of elephants.

You're right, the Sox would have gone with that. Do you think Devers would have? Put in the time to learn 1B and only play there occasionally?

 

[Bernard Gilkey baby]

My overly generous take for Devers:

I've had issues in life with fear of the unknown. Some people are quicker at adapting to new things than others. It's a real fight/flight response that happens to some of us when something unexpected happens and we need to adjust. I'm guessing that Devers is the kind of person who doesn't adapt to change quickly. All the money in the world can't really change personality, and I suspect Devers feels really threatened when his routine is upended. I'm totally envious of friends who can switch things up effortlessly.

For me, when life changes and I have to adjust, the last thing I'd need is a microphone in my face, because what I'd have to say about it would be pure fear. And that's what Devers was expressing: fear. All the stuff he was saying about Breslow, etc. To me, that's just pure fear. As we all know, anger is a masking emotion for fear.

I don't know if I prefer my athletes to be like me: afraid of new things. But that's what Devers seems to be. There are workarounds that help a person dip their toes in the water and discover the water is fine, but that's the behind the scenes stuff that we usually don't know about that allows athletes to pretend they don't need coddling.

 

[moondog80]

I guess what it boils down to is this.

If Devers' reluctance is out of genuine concern that he would be unbale to make the switch during the season in way that would make the team better, that's fine.

If he's just saying no out of resentment over being moved off 3B in the first place, that's a problem, and it's on him.

 

[Yaz4Ever]

If I had a time machine, I'd go back and talk them out of moving Devers from 3B. This is literally the worst thing that has ever happened.

 

[The_Dali]

Hard to understand why Bloom would have needed the “carrot” of playing 3b being explicitly stated during negotiations when he was vastly overpaying him from the very start.

anyway… I expect this to blow over once Devers gets a feel for the backlash and I can still see him playing some 1b this year. I am actually shocked he wouldn’t jump at the chance to play D again given his reluctance to switch to straight DH in the first place And, jeez, if he’s halfway decent it could be his “forever home”.

A lot of good perspectives here on both sides of this issue. I feel like there is so much unknown that it’s hard to say who is right or wrong. I mean honestly I can totally see the initial DH discussion getting contentious and Raffi getting super upset and eventually Breslow just saying “burn your glove. You’re not gonna need it this year. We’re gonna go forward with this plan.” I don’t think that that was the intent of the conversation, but I can see it devolving to the point where he got frustrated and might’ve said that. And then, of course, I can see Raffi getting even more upset that he said that, and then digging his heels in here.

But again, we don’t know how the conversation went so we have no idea if Breslow has no idea how to talk to people, or if Raffi is just an immature person.

 

[JohntheBaptist]

I guess what it boils down to is this.

If Devers' reluctance is out of genuine concern that he would be unbale to make the switch during the season in way that would make the time better, that's fine.

If he's just saying no out of resentment over being moved off 3B in the first place, that's a problem, and it's on him.

We're all having a Rorschach moment here reacting to imperfect information and reading tea leaves, but listening to what Devers has said, I think the issue for him is feeling like they've gone back on their word/ lied several times to him, the last couple in the act of asking him to sacrifice something (in his eyes). I do wonder how he would have taken any of it if it had been handled (in his opinion) above board.

But even assuming I'm right, I agree here too. I'd respect his stance more if he said "I'm going to do what's best for the team for my teammates, but pull up a chair and let me tell you how much I hate Craig Breslow" than pulling the full brat routine.

 

[JohntheBaptist]

Hard to understand why Bloom would have needed the “carrot” of playing 3b being explicitly stated during negotiations when he was vastly overpaying him from the very start.

People forget this maybe but he had them over a barrel. They had a big post-Mookie PR problem, and he was their best player, young, and it made no sense that the Boston Red Sox couldn't put some money toward keeping him here. Additionally, unless I am totally mistaken, he had made overtures that he was heavily favoring betting on himself and going to FA.

The Sox went down to the DR and clearly had 'this is getting done' in their minds and Devers/ his rep likely told them specifically what he wanted. Big if, but if he communicated to them that he'd have preferred going to FA, but he'd be comfortable signing for this many dollars and the assurance he could play 3B, and they said yes, and went back on it a year later, it is hard not to see where he's coming from, or at least why he'd be angry. They could have said no.

There has been a lot of throwing gasoline at fires post-Mookie. I know, he who shall not be named, but it was the kind of fuckup that causes repercussions, especially if you don't deal with those well, either.

 

[EvilEmpire]

You're right, the Sox would have gone with that. Do you think Devers would have? Put in the time to learn 1B and only play there occasionally?

I think Devers would be more open to primary DH and backup 1B, Papi-style more than he is a permanent switch, but no, he doesn't like any of it.

And I do think a permanent switch is what is on his mind. And obviously if he gets some work in now, 1B is at least for the rest of this season.

Edit: regardless, better to find out early in the season while Casas is healthy and it is "only" backup 1B. If not, Breslow has work to do. Like he does now, with an extra helping of drama.

 

[The_Dali]

People forget this maybe but he had them over a barrel. They had a big post-Mookie PR problem, and he was their best player, young, and it made no sense that the Boston Red Sox couldn't put some money toward keeping him here. Additionally, unless I am totally mistaken, he had made overtures that he was heavily favoring betting on himself and going to FA.

The Sox went down to the DR and clearly had 'this is getting done' in their minds and Devers/ his rep likely told them specifically what he wanted. Big if, but if he communicated to them that he'd have preferred going to FA, but he'd be comfortable signing for this many dollars and the assurance he could play 3B, and they said yes, and went back on it a year later, it is hard not to see where he's coming from, or at least why he'd be angry. They could have said no.

There has been a lot of throwing gasoline at fires post-Mookie. I know, he who shall not be named, but it was the kind of fuckup that causes repercussions, especially if you don't deal with those well, either.

Yep, I totally remember that, and my comment was really more about the fact that we gave $300 million to a completely one dimensional player, when that kind of money (at least a few years ago) was only for over-the-top superstars who can field, run *and* hit.

But yes, your point is a good one that the Sox put themselves in a bad position and had to sign him, even if it was a bad signing.

 

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

But even assuming I'm right, I agree here too. I'd respect his stance more if he said "I'm going to do what's best for the team for my teammates, but pull up a chair and let me tell you how much I hate Craig Breslow" than pulling the full brat routine.

Most professional athletes, most star professional athletes, don’t think that way. Since they were five, every team that they’ve been on has had them as the center. They’ve never had to learn about self sacrifice, taking one for the team, etc. Mostly because they were the team and people made sacrifices for them.

Is that right? Probably not. But that’s the world we live in. Expecting Devers to unlearn 20+ years of self entitled behavior is a pretty big ask. I’m not saying that Devers is a bad guy, I’d suspect most professional athletes have to figure this out sooner or later (my guess is a guy like Rob Refsnyder had to learn this lesson quicker than Devers) but this is his first real bout with reality.

No one takes it well and I bet even less would do a good job in public.

Why Breslow doesn’t understand this is because he’s closer to a Refsnyder than a Devers. He better figure out how to approach stars to get them to do what he wants quickly.

 

[simplicio]

Yep, I totally remember that, and my comment was really more about the fact that we gave $300 million to a completely one dimensional player, when that kind of money (at least a few years ago) was only for over-the-top superstars who can field, run *and* hit.

A few years ago it was. Texas' spending spree and then the SS bonanza of 2022 (not to mention what LA's done the last couple winters) changed the game. Now if you want control of a good young player, this is the price.

 

[Sox Puppet]

If Devers was willing to grab a 1B glove and starting getting some work, why wouldn't they play him there when Casas needed a day off or a DH day?

Of course they would. Cora and Breslow would be thrilled to have more options. I don't think anyone in management is thrilled with the idea of Devers locking down the DH slot for a bunch of years and a boatload of money. It isn't an elephant in the room. It's a whole herd of elephants.

Edit: And that discussion and process should have started as soon as Devers got healthy and before Casas got hurt.

Honestly, this process could have started last year with Casas's lengthy absence. I still think that would have been a superior solution than giving time to the Dom Smiths and Bobby Dalbecs of the world. A forward-thinking front office would have said "We think you can do this, and it will only make the team more versatile in the long run."

Then, this offseason, just be aboveboard with him and say "We're looking to upgrade the team in any way possible and while we don't have plans to move you from 3B, if a big prize like Alex Bregman or Nolan Arenado falls into our laps, we might ask you to be versatile and play different positions or DH from time to time. But we still believe in you and know you're the star of this team. We want you to be the next Papi."

Even if the FO wasn't sincere about all of this, they'd at least know the player well enough to know that springing it all on him after the fact wasn't a great idea. People skills do matter.

 

[JohntheBaptist]

Most professional athletes, most star professional athletes, don’t think that way. Since they were five, every team that they’ve been on has had them as the center. They’ve never had to learn about self sacrifice, taking one for the team, etc. Mostly because they were the team and people made sacrifices for them.

Is that right? Probably not. But that’s the world we live in. Expecting Devers to unlearn 20+ years of self entitled behavior is a pretty big ask. I’m not saying that Devers is a bad guy, I’d suspect most professional athletes have to figure this out sooner or later (my guess is a guy like Rob Refsnyder had to learn this lesson quicker than Devers) but this is his first real bout with reality.

No one takes it well and I bet even less would do a good job in public.

Why Breslow doesn’t understand this is because he’s closer to a Refsnyder than a Devers. He better figure out how to approach stars to get them to do what he wants quickly.

No I completely agree with this. Looking at it objectively I guess you'd want the guy going full esprit de corps, but I am like 99% of the way there with you on it being the result of several massive communication and roster mis-steps by the FO. I was mostly just expressing a version of the first two sentences of your second paragraph there.

 

[LogansDad]

You're right, the Sox would have gone with that. Do you think Devers would have? Put in the time to learn 1B and only play there occasionally?

It's kind of looking like "No" right now, if I am being completely honest.

 

[SouthernBoSox]

View: https://twitter.com/chriscotillo/status/1920970466006622211?s=46


Well, I think it’s safe to say this wasn’t overblown

 

[Auger34]

We're all having a Rorschach moment here reacting to imperfect information and reading tea leaves, but listening to what Devers has said, I think the issue for him is feeling like they've gone back on their word/ lied several times to him, the last couple in the act of asking him to sacrifice something (in his eyes). I do wonder how he would have taken any of it if it had been handled (in his opinion) above board.

But even assuming I'm right, I agree here too. I'd respect his stance more if he said "I'm going to do what's best for the team for my teammates, but pull up a chair and let me tell you how much I hate Craig Breslow" than pulling the full brat routine.

I think that second paragraph is right on.

I don’t think Devers is a bad teammate. He literally has never had problems here until this year. I tend to think that whatever Breslow did in his communication with Devers, whether it was intended or not, didn’t work at all and actually actively pissed Devers off.

Zack Scott has worked in baseball front offices. He certainly has heard the rumors about other executives and the way they operate. That “IQ over EQ” comment about Breslow set off some alarms for me.

The fact that the entire contingent had to fly to meet with Devers kind of further proves it

 

[ColdSoxPack]

Breslow on the pregame seems to be saying John Henry did all the talking if I am hearing this correctly.

Edit no mention of Cora in the meeting.

 

[Comfortably Lomb]

Breslow on the pregame seems to be saying John Henry did all the talking if I am hearing this correctly.

Edit no mention of Cora in the meeting.

What I understood from Breslow's interview is they all flew out there because they know how important it is to extinguish this fire but the organization thinks Devers should be attempting a conversion to 1B.

 

[Auger34]

If Cora wasn’t involved in this meeting, I really wonder what the fuck the “front office” is thinking

 

[grimshaw]

To sum up Breslow's comments:
-Ownership came out to reinforce the Red Sox believe in team first vs individual wishes.
-Said it was an honest and productive dialogue between Henry and Devers but wouldn't elaborate.
-Discussions are still ongoing about him playing 1st.
-His meeting with Devers initially was of the exploratory talks rather than something more direct.
-Didn't want to comment too much on Raffy actually playing first, but said he believed it was something he could handle, but it wouldn't be an overnight thing.
-Breslow wasn't asked about a trade, but he talked about him being a big part of team for now and the future.

 

[Salem's Lot]

Cora speaking right now. He was at the meeting.

 

[Auger34]

Cora speaking right now. He was at the meeting.

Thank god.

 

[ColdSoxPack]

Asked point blank, Cora said it was just John, Cora, and Raffy. Confusion reigns.

 

[Salem's Lot]

Thank god.

I don’t think him and Breslow are on the same page on this but they were both at the meeting.

 

[Salem's Lot]

Asked point blank, Cora said it was just John, Cora, and Raffy. Confusion reigns.

I thought the question was besides Breslow who was there?

 

[Salem's Lot]

If Henry met with Breslow & Cora separately that’s a really bad sign.

 

[8slim]

This is one of those things where neither side is covering themselves in glory.

For Devers... he was self-admittedly put out that he had to move to the full-time DH. He should have grabbed a first-base mitt the second Casas went down and made the offer. Instead, he's saying that he was already asked to change positions once already this season. Now, granted I'm a fossil... but I do remember the days when the DH was used to give the guys playing the field a rest. It's not exactly a position since these guys are already hitting. And there are some psychological aspects in that you're not as locked into the game as a fielder, but... you're not really changing a position as much as you are doing a lot less for the team. I mean, even Yaz and Dewey played first... and these two are historically toward the top of their respective positions for the Sox. All that said, Devers should stay at DH. Moving him to first will be an unmitigated disaster.

Breslow and Cora... They failed in a couple spots. One... there should be a viable back-up plan for every position on the club. First base is probably the least physically demanding position. And they have no one with a good bat that can be plugged in. Maybe they thought Devers, but... these two were modern-era ball players. They should have known better Managing egos is a required skill-set. How could they have misread making this request of Devers this badly? If they want to contend this year, they need to get someone who had either played or can be easily converted to play first base and that can hit.

I agree that both sides have acted/reacted poorly. The Sox simply had to know that asking Devers to try 1B, after all that went down in Spring Training, wouldn't be received well. And Devers, despite how upset he was to be asked, should not have had a public tantrum.

Hopefully this meeting in KC today will start to fix things. It's a terrible look for both the front office and the player.

View: https://twitter.com/chriscotillo/status/1920970466006622211?s=46


Well, I think it’s safe to say this wasn’t overblown

Maybe the front office was always planning to fly to KC today for bar-b-que! Why does the Boston media always have to stir the pot?! You suck, Cotillo!!

 

[lexrageorge]

I disagree fully with this post. Rafael Dever's job isn't to keep bailing Craig Breslow (whom I like) out of jams. All winter long he heard that he was a bad defensive player, the Sox needed to get him off the hot corner and have him be a full-time DH. Devers, who just committed long-term to the club, sees himself as a third baseman. More than that, he sees himself as the Boston Red Sox third baseman. The Sox sign Bregman with a dog-and-pony show of, "Actually, he's going to be our second baseman, Raffy's still our man at third!" and they go to Spring Training.

In ST, the team breaks the news to Devers that, actually we were fucking around, Bregman's always going to be our third baseman and you're going to be our DH. BTW, I don't disagree with this assessment, Bregman IS better than Devers defensively. But what I disagree with is the way that the Sox went about it. Anyway, Devers pouts, sits out most of ST, opens the year in a huge hole mostly because I think that he's still trying to wrap his head around the permanent DH thing and finally starts hitting better.

Now the Sox want him to play first? If I was Devers I'd tell Breslow to pound sand too. Devers hasn't used his glove in two months and not only that, they want him to change position in mid-season. First base might be an easy position to learn, but not in the Majors. People were giving Raffy a raft of shit when he had a tough time adjusting to being a DH, what's going to happen the first time he screws up a 3-6-3 double play? What's going to happen when a pick off throw gets by him and the tying runs scores from third?

Could Devers be a good first baseman? Yes. With time and practice, I don't doubt that he could. But that's much different that, "Hey throw Raffy out there and he'll learn on the job! Everyone is super chill in Boston, so if he fucks up, we'll all just have a good laugh about it!"

Craig Breslow's job, right now, is to find a person who can play first base at a professional level. Rafael Devers, as of May 9, 2005, is not that person. If Breslow thinks that, he probably shouldn't be a GM in the Major Leagues.

I think what a lot of people here aren't understanding is that for a lot of major leaguers, their position is their identity. Especially when you're a star. If someone said, "I'm the first baseman of the Los Angeles Dodgers" you know that person is Freddie Freeman. "I'm the centerfielder for the New York Yankees," Aaron Judge. Stars (aside from Mookie Betts, ironically, it would be great to have a guy like that on our roster ) don't normally get moved around. And especially not three times in six months. Devers gets paid like a super star in Boston, ergo, he's the Red Sox superstar. This is more than asking Romy Gonzalez or Nick Punto or Ed Romero to play a different position. It would be like asking Jim Rice to play second in the middle of the 1985, Nomar to play rightfield in June of 1999, David Ortiz to catch in May of 2008.

Analytics are great. But at the end of the day, these players are human beings and they're proud and egotistical and worried about perception and don't want to fuck up in front of 35,000 people on a nightly basis. This isn't Strato or a simulator where you can just stick a dude at a position and write off his errors. I don't think that one of the 300 analysts that the are banging away on keyboards on Landsdowne Street really gets this.

All Breslow did was ask. It was Devers who decided to make a big stink about being asked about it.

If he didn't ask at all, and then the team acquired a stopgap, odds are we would hear from Devers saying "they never asked me to play first - I may have done it if they did".

I can understand why Devers said no. I don't understand why he and some posters here treat asking the question as some big offense by the front office.

 

[Salem's Lot]

All Breslow did was ask. It was Devers who decided to make a big stink about being asked about it.

If he didn't ask at all, and then the team acquired a stopgap, odds are we would hear from Devers saying "they never asked me to play first - I may have done it if they did".

I can understand why Devers said no. I don't understand why he and some posters here treat asking the question as some big offense by the front office.

You really think Raffy made a big stink about it? He got asked by the media. That story came from somewhere. And if I’m Devers, I think Breslow leaked it to make me look like an asshole.

 

[ColdSoxPack]

Abe: "You, Raffy and John?
Cora: "We talked. Just us 3".
Abe: "Were Sam and Craig involved"?
Cora: "no no no"
Abe: "Did Sam and Craig talk to him as well"?
Cora: "I don't know".

 

[lexrageorge]

You really think Raffy made a big stink about it? He got asked by the media. That story came from somewhere. And if I’m Devers, I think Breslow leaked it to make me look like an asshole.

People here (and in the media) were speculating about Devers playing first even before Cassas injury. Not convinced there was a leak to the media about the conversation. Breslow would have zero reason to do that.

 

[Salem's Lot]

Abe: "You, Raffy and John?
Cora: "We talked"."just us 3"
Abe: "Were Sam and Craig involved"?
Cora: "no no no"
Abe: "Did Sam and Craig talk to him as well"?
Cora: "I don't know".

Ok that’s a horrible sign. And why if you’re going to hire a GM, you need to let him pick the manager.

 

[Salem's Lot]

People here (and in the media) were speculating about Devers playing first even before Cassas injury. Not convinced there was a leak to the media about the conversation. Breslow would have zero reason to do that.

Zero reason? His only major league option at first base was a guy that missed most of the season and he had zero backup plan. Now he’s trying to save face and put it on the player. You don’t think Breslow would leak something to deflect criticism? He played here. He knows how this town works.

 

[ColdSoxPack]

Ok that’s a horrible sign. And why if you’re going to hire a GM, you need to let him pick the manager.

Somewhere there is a bus looking for a body to be thrown under it.

 

[lexrageorge]

Zero reason? His only major league option at first base was a guy that missed most of the season and he had zero backup plan. Now he’s trying to save face and put it on the player. You don’t think Breslow would leak something to deflect criticism? He played here. He knows how this town works.

People weren't criticizing Breslow for Casas getting hurt. At least those with half a brain. Not every bit of news has a conspiracy around it. Sometimes, media asks questions that are on their minds - if people here were discussing the idea of Devers playing 1B, certainly the guys that follow the team every day have the same question.

 

[Auger34]

Abe: "You, Raffy and John?
Cora: "We talked. Just us 3".
Abe: "Were Sam and Craig involved"?
Cora: "no no no"
Abe: "Did Sam and Craig talk to him as well"?
Cora: "I don't know".

Remember Breslow hired the consulting firm to look at potential redundancies and positions to be downsized?

Maube be can hire some consultants to teach him, Sam Kennedy, and Alex Cora how to get on the same page. Then the media consultants can stay after and talk with Sam and Craig on how to deal with the media.

Good Christ

 

[JohntheBaptist]

Yeah another part of this is definitely the Cora/ Breslow dynamic. There's something weird there, going back to the Bregman thing with Cora advocating for it and Breslow less sanguine. They had a weird chemistry in the documentary.