Tiger Woods Car Accident - Ongoing News and Commentary

ngruz25

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The fact that there is no criminal investigation as to why or how a driver turned their vehicle into a deadly weapon might good indicator that we don't take dangerous driving infractions very seriously in this country. What's that old saying... if you want to kill someone and get away with it, hit them with your car?
 

djbayko

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The fact that there is no criminal investigation as to why or how a driver turned their vehicle into a deadly weapon might good indicator that we don't take dangerous driving infractions very seriously in this country. What's that old saying... if you want to kill someone and get away with it, hit them with your car?
You may be right. But in a case like this, where the only damag done is to the driver himself - a professional athlete no less - I'd be perfectly fine with a prosecutor exercising their discretion not to prosecute. In fact, that's the way I'd want it to go, to be honest. He's learned a tragic lesson already. There is no need to kick a man when he's down.

Like others here, I'm surprised that the police didn't investigate further to determine if there was criminal culpability. But I suppose the right outcome was probably reached here.
 

radsoxfan

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johnmd20

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https://nypost.com/2021/04/08/tiger-woods-had-unlabeled-pill-bottle-in-suv-during-car-crash-was-somewhat-combative/

Combative, empty pill bottle, and thought he was in Florida.... I guess chalk it up to trauma and concussion? Plus driving 85 in a 45 through a curve and never braked.

I get no one else was hurt so if they want to just move on, fair enough. But seems pretty clear there is a story more of a story here if someone felt like digging.
Or perhaps the Post is just flinging shit like they always do.

"Somewhat combative" while his legs are lying in pieces. That is some nonsense.
 

radsoxfan

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Lots of interesting stuff in there. The most interesting part to a layman like me is the black box info, they have his acceleration every half second from 5 seconds until the crash.

Here are his accelerations % each 0.5 seconds til the crash:
14
14
15
10
45
0
0
99
99
99
99


He was coasting over 80 and then coming up to a curve he floors it for 2 seconds.

Maybe he did hit the gas instead of the brake? He not only didn't brake but also made no attempt to steer the car along the curve of the road. Very weird.
 
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jcaz

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The “no damage” part of this frustrates me. If he ran through guiderail, it’s probably $200k to replace even a small section. Then there are the delays that everyone else travelling in this area incurred because of his “accident” that wasn’t truly an accident but rather a result of his bad judgement.

Then we can add in the societal costs of the emergency response - police, fire, paramedics etc. - that local taxpayers pay.

He then went to the hospital and received treatment the cost of which I’m ill-prepared to measure, but must be in six figures as well.

All this reinforces the point that NG25 made that we don’t take traffic violations seriously at all.
 
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radsoxfan

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I hear that as well, a TON of costs associated with this situation even though only Tiger was hurt.

If anyone has dealt with traffic accidents, I'm genuinely curious how common and/or plausible the scenario is that Tiger was in a typical "going too fast for the road conditions and totaled his car" type accidents. The investigation apparently came to that conclusion.

If someone is going down a road too fast with an upcoming curve, how often do they gun the accelerator and not turn at all? Isn't that entirely atypical?

If he was looking down at his phone or got distracted I don't think that would happen. Even being drunk or on drugs I can't imagine it happening quite like that. If he hit the accelerator instead of the brake, would most people not still try to turn the car and follow the curve?

I dunno, maybe everyone is just glad he is alive and no one cares much to dig too deeply. Just all strikes me as very very strange.
 

Average Reds

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The fact that he coasted and then floored the accelerator tells me (as a matter of common sense) that he was distracted and then, when he realized the danger, he attempted to stomp on the brake. When he hit the gas instead, the rapid, unexpected acceleration caused a disoriented reaction that was essentially inertia. (Which is why no attempt was made to turn.)

This is almost the exact scenario behind a fatal accident not long ago in my town. Driver tried to stomp on the brake, but when they hit the gas, they drove straight into a tree at 100 mph without ever turning.

The cause of the initial inattention is anyone’s guess. My money is still on looking at his phone.
 
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radsoxfan

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Interesting. I would have assumed in that situation you would still try to turn, but perhaps not and it's just total panic.

And I agree, there seems to be some missing fact somewhere, perhaps he was distracted by a phone or something else.

Doesn't make sense he was driving normally, paying attention, but just going too fast and wrecked.
 

jercra

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The “no damage” part of this frustrates me. If he ran through guiderail, it’s probably $200k to replace even a small section. Then there are the delays that everyone else travelling in this area incurred because of his “accident” that wasn’t truly an accident but rather a result of his bad judgement.

Then we can add in the societal costs of the emergency response - police, fire, paramedics etc. - that local taxpayers pay.

He then went to the hospital and received treatment the cost of which I’m ill-prepared to measure, but must be in six figures as well.

All this reinforces the point that NG25 made that we don’t take traffic violations seriously at all.
I get where you're coming from but most of those "costs" aren't actually costs. Police, fire and paramedics don't get paid per incident. They get paid whether they're responding to an incident or playing cards at the firehouse. I'd be willing to bet that Tiger has pretty good health and car insurance and all of his bills will get paid in full, though again, the ER staff doesn't get paid per incident. The coat to the highway infrastructure is probably nowhere near $200k unless you think it costs well north of that figure per mile of road. If you do, then I'd want to do some math on how much the millions of road-miles in the US costs. Beyond all of that, accidents happen around the country thousands of times a day. If it weren't Tiger, no one would expect that the state be compensated for the damage done due to an accident, regardless of negligence. Finally, Tiger has paid far more in tax dollars than most that went into that road construction and maintenance already. Cost should have nothing to do with it.
 

Myt1

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I get where you're coming from but most of those "costs" aren't actually costs. Police, fire and paramedics don't get paid per incident. They get paid whether they're responding to an incident or playing cards at the firehouse. I'd be willing to bet that Tiger has pretty good health and car insurance and all of his bills will get paid in full, though again, the ER staff doesn't get paid per incident. The coat to the highway infrastructure is probably nowhere near $200k unless you think it costs well north of that figure per mile of road. If you do, then I'd want to do some math on how much the millions of road-miles in the US costs. Beyond all of that, accidents happen around the country thousands of times a day. If it weren't Tiger, no one would expect that the state be compensated for the damage done due to an accident, regardless of negligence. Finally, Tiger has paid far more in tax dollars than most that went into that road construction and maintenance already. Cost should have nothing to do with it.
I have rarely seen something so utterly backwards about how we, as a society, punish destructive behavior.

People who pay a lot in taxes shouldn’t have to pay for the results of their negligence? Tax payments, not the cost of the negligence, should govern?

This is utter nonsense.
 
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Marciano490

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I have rarely seen something so utterly backwards about how we, as a society, punish destructive behavior.

People who pay a lot in taxes shouldn’t have to pay for the results of their negligence?

This is utter nonsense.
With great power comes no responsibility.
 

snowmanny

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People who pay a lot in taxes shouldn’t have to pay for the results of their negligence?

Just want to be clear: poster did make the point that Tiger pays lots of taxes and I recognize you are in part or in whole saying that what he pays in taxes shouldn’t impact his responsibility otherwise. Are you also saying that everyone should be financially responsible for damages caused to government property by their car accidents? Or nobody? Or only certain people? Or were you not commenting on that point at all? I couldn’t follow.
 

Myt1

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Just want to be clear: poster did make the point that Tiger pays lots of taxes and I recognize you are in part or in whole saying that what he pays in taxes shouldn’t impact his responsibility otherwise. Are you also saying that everyone should be financially responsible for damages caused to government property by their car accidents? Or nobody? Or only certain people? Or were you not commenting on that point at all? I couldn’t follow.
People should be—and largely are—responsible for the costs of their negligence, whether to government property or the property of others. Insurance usually picks up the tab.
 

jercra

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I have rarely seen something so utterly backwards about how we, as a society, punish destructive behavior.

People who pay a lot in taxes shouldn’t have to pay for the results of their negligence? Tax payments, not the cost of the negligence, should govern?

This is utter nonsense.
Yeah, that's not remotely what I was trying to say. I was replying to someone saying that Tiger was wasting taxpayer money by pointing out that Tiger himself is a taxpayer. Other accidents by non-stars also waste lots of taxpayer money. Tiger paying in a lot was just meant to say that he's actually wasting less taxpayer money as a ratio of paid in to taken out (I know it doesn't work that way and is a massive over-simplification). The rest of my post made it pretty clear that I don't think anyone should be charged for the damages to roads and such for car accidents. We, as a society, don't bill be people for damage to roadways as a result of a car accident.
 

santadevil

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Edit: Once I did hit the gas instead of the brake while driving. It was in my cousin’s Porsche and it was equipped with a manual transmission. In the Porsche, the pedals are relatively close to each other to allow you to utilize heel-and-toe braking which is where you use the left foot to engage the clutch and the right foot to simultaneously work both the gas and brake. If you can master it, it‘s sorta fun to do in a curve. I thought Tiger had a thing for Porsches so, if true, then he should be familiar with closely spaced pedals and their dangers.
I'm reading this and thinking thay some people here are using both feet when they drive an automatic? Right for gas, left for brake? I sure hope not

What's the penalty for texting while driving? I'm guessing it isn't worth a subpoena.
I don’t know the laws out there, but texting is probably a traffic violation. For a single car accident, it wouldn’t be very common for them to go through the effort to get a subpoena for phone records.
Yeah, single car crash, no one else involved, and serious possibly career ending injuries. It would seem like adding insult to injury to go through with a investigation just so they could write the guy a distracted driving ticket. Obviously a different story if someone else got hurt.
Not picking on you guys and I know I've made this point before, but if it was distracted driving due to a cell phone, mayne this is the example they could use to change the laws and actually hammer people for doing such stupid things, like texting while driving

A vehicle travels the length of a football field in 4 seconds when driving at highway speed. That's a scary distance when not paying attention
 

Myt1

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Yeah, that's not remotely what I was trying to say. I was replying to someone saying that Tiger was wasting taxpayer money by pointing out that Tiger himself is a taxpayer.
And? I’m a taxpayer. Can I destroy some government property up to the amount that I’ve paid in taxes?

Other accidents by non-stars also waste lots of taxpayer money. Tiger paying in a lot was just meant to say that he's actually wasting less taxpayer money as a ratio of paid in to taken out (I know it doesn't work that way and is a massive over-simplification).
Who cares? Seriously, explain your point to me, if it’s not intended as a defense against pretty simple and boring liability.

The rest of my post made it pretty clear that I don't think anyone should be charged for the damages to roads and such for car accidents. We, as a society, don't bill be people for damage to roadways as a result of a car accident.
You just saying things doesn’t make them true, you know.

https://www.freewayinsurance.com/knowledge-center/auto-insurance/understanding-auto-insurance/damaged-city-property-with-car-it-will-cost-you/

https://www.in.gov/indot/3130.htm

https://www.syracuse.com/news/2010/09/new_yorks_guardrail_policy_you.html

How many more of those do you want?
 

Lose Remerswaal

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Not picking on you guys and I know I've made this point before, but if it was distracted driving due to a cell phone, mayne this is the example they could use to change the laws and actually hammer people for doing such stupid things, like texting while driving

A vehicle travels the length of a football field in 4 seconds when driving at highway speed. That's a scary distance when not paying attention
How badly do you want to "hammer people" for texting while driving?

I agree it's a big problem, but I'm not sure it makes sense to fine folks thousands of dollars or suspend their licenses (because that works) or jail them.

Making them pay for damage caused, and having the insurance companies exclude coverage in those cases is something I would like more info on.
 

joe dokes

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I'm reading this and thinking thay some people here are using both feet when they drive an automatic? Right for gas, left for brake? I sure hope not





Not picking on you guys and I know I've made this point before, but if it was distracted driving due to a cell phone, mayne this is the example they could use to change the laws and actually hammer people for doing such stupid things, like texting while driving

A vehicle travels the length of a football field in 4 seconds when driving at highway speed. That's a scary distance when not paying attention
Also, while "he could have killed many *other* people" is not really an independent basis for legal liability, it is a basis to prod Tiger with a hot poker to shoot some PSAs about driving or somesuch. Unless he had some sort of physical incident, he was driving at least negligently even before he perhaps stomped the not-brake in panic.
 

Ale Xander

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Yeah, that's not remotely what I was trying to say. I was replying to someone saying that Tiger was wasting taxpayer money by pointing out that Tiger himself is a taxpayer. Other accidents by non-stars also waste lots of taxpayer money. Tiger paying in a lot was just meant to say that he's actually wasting less taxpayer money as a ratio of paid in to taken out (I know it doesn't work that way and is a massive over-simplification). The rest of my post made it pretty clear that I don't think anyone should be charged for the damages to roads and such for car accidents. We, as a society, don't bill be people for damage to roadways as a result of a car accident.
I've destroyed no government property. How do I get a full tax abatement for this reason?
 

jercra

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I've destroyed no government property. How do I get a full tax abatement for this reason?
I think people may be making more of this than what I'm saying. We already pay for the roads. It's called taxes. Tiger pays those. Ignore that I said he pays a higher share than most people who get into accidents because it doesn't really matter. It was not intended as the main point, but I can see why it was taken that way. My bad.

@Myt1 pointed out that some states do indeed charge some people for their accidents, so I guess you're all correct will happily pay the bill the next time your car slips in the snow or someone hits you and you spin out into a guardrail.
 

Bowhemian

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I can tell you from experience, although not city property, if you hit a telephone pole hard enough to require replacement of said telephone pole, you will be charged for it. My wife took out a pole a few years back, and we got a bill for ~$10k, which our insurance paid for. I think in our case the pole was owned by the power company Eversource. So if TW took out any of those, he is going to get a bill for that, too.

I never got a bill when I dented a couple guardrails 20 or so years ago, so I guess I got lucky there.
 

barbed wire Bob

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I'm reading this and thinking thay some people here are using both feet when they drive an automatic? Right for gas, left for brake? I sure hope not
No. The only time you use heel-toe braking is with a manual transmission. It doesn’t work with a full automatic transmission. This video shows how heel-toe shifting works. It also shows the importance of having the right shoes when driving. When I had the issue with the Porsche I was wearing hiking boots at the time which were not appropriate for the pedal spacing.

View: https://youtu.be/8RRTQUAn4kI
 

Bowhemian

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I'm reading this and thinking thay some people here are using both feet when they drive an automatic? Right for gas, left for brake? I sure hope not
My father used to drive like that, in fact, that's what he taught me, which thankfully I never adopted. To this day (he's been gone nearly 30 years) I can remember how the car reacted/felt when he would slowly ease off the brake and press the gas at the same time. Drove me nuts, and I was just a kid.
 

Bergs

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No. The only time you use heel-toe braking is with a manual transmission. It doesn’t work with a full automatic transmission. This video shows how heel-toe shifting works. It also shows the importance of having the right shoes when driving. When I had the issue with the Porsche I was wearing hiking boots at the time which were not appropriate for the pedal spacing.

View: https://youtu.be/8RRTQUAn4kI
You are pretty clearly missing what santadevil is saying. There are plenty of dipshits out there who do exactly what he was talking about. You can spot them from the frequent taps of the brake light accompanied by no decelleration. I of course have no way of knowing if Tiger Woods is one of these reprehensible assholes, but I can guarantee you that they're out there.


edit: Bowhemian sorry I just called your dad a reprehensible asshole...lol
 

Bowhemian

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You are pretty clearly missing what santadevil is saying. There are plenty of dipshits out there who do exactly what he was talking about. You can spot them from the frequent taps of the brake light accompanied by no decelleration. I of course have no way of knowing if Tiger Woods is one of these reprehensible assholes, but I can guarantee you that they're out there.


edit: Bowhemian sorry I just called your dad a reprehensible asshole...lol
It's OK, I know you didn't actually know my dad. I couldn't stand the way he drove, either.

It was actually a very "normal" way to drive back in the old days. I don't know when/how it originated, or when/how it became unpopular. All I know is that my dad, who was born in 1922, drove with 2 feet. I used to see what @Bergs describes a lot more than I do now.
 

santadevil

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No. The only time you use heel-toe braking is with a manual transmission. It doesn’t work with a full automatic transmission. This video shows how heel-toe shifting works. It also shows the importance of having the right shoes when driving. When I had the issue with the Porsche I was wearing hiking boots at the time which were not appropriate for the pedal spacing.

View: https://youtu.be/8RRTQUAn4kI
That's cool

I've only driving a manual maybe a dozen times, with my brother in law and with friends. I sucked at it and will likely never have the opportunity again
 

cgori

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No. The only time you use heel-toe braking is with a manual transmission. It doesn’t work with a full automatic transmission. This video shows how heel-toe shifting works. It also shows the importance of having the right shoes when driving. When I had the issue with the Porsche I was wearing hiking boots at the time which were not appropriate for the pedal spacing.
There's also left-foot braking, usually to rotate the car - it's more for rally and/or FWD cars though:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xl7O01h7MU4
 

Ralphwiggum

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I never drove anything other than a manual transmission until I was 40, and I only switched because they are mostly disappearing. I’ve never referred to that as “heel toe” or whatever, that’s just how you drive a car with a manual transmission. Is there another way?
 

cgori

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I never drove anything other than a manual transmission until I was 40, and I only switched because they are mostly disappearing. I’ve never referred to that as “heel toe” or whatever, that’s just how you drive a car with a manual transmission. Is there another way?
To be clear: you always press the brake with the left side of your right food and give it gas ("blip the throttle") with the right side of your right foot, at the same time, when downshifting? That's pretty good if so.

The simple (but slower) way to downshift going into a corner is to brake in a straight line before the corner (right foot), let off the brake (move right foot over to gas), press the clutch in (left foot), give it gas (right foot), release clutch (left foot), and enter the corner, applying more gas to exit the corner.

Heel-toe lets you brake closer to entering the corner since you aren't shifting feet from pedal-to-pedal to brake and match revs for the gear change.
 

voidfunkt

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Its good news that it looks like he can walk on it. Who knows how fragile it is and whether he'll ever be able to swing with PGA Tour force on it again... but I guess we'll see. He's got the money to have the best doctors and physical therapists working on this problem.

I could also see a path where Tiger just focuses on his kid who looks like a pretty solid golfer too. Maybe he does some Champions Tour stuff in a few years and shows up for The Masters.
 

cshea

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Tiger's Bahama's tournament is this week. He's going to do his first post-accident media availability tomorrow.

View: https://twitter.com/BobHarig/status/1465389319565324294?s=20


There was some speculation (IIRC, Todd Lewis posted about it) that Tiger could potentially be gearing up to play the PNC Father/Son challenge which is in a couple of weeks. The theory was that it's essentially a hit-and-giggle and on the competition side, he doesn't really need to hit driver or many long shots due to Charlie's game and advantage off the tee.
 

cshea

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Media tour time. Golf Digest has his first post-accident interview.

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/tiger-woods-exclusive-interview

There was a period of time where amputation was "damn near 50/50". After being discharged from the hospital, he spent the next 3-months in a hospital bed at his home. Eventually got to wheelchair, then crutches and more recently walking and resuming light golf activities (putting to chipping to light swings..).

On his golf future, he wouldl ike to return to the Tour but never again as a full time player. He'd like to do something like Ben Hogan did and pick and choose a few events each year and build up to those weeks. He said that after the fusion, he had to climb Mt. Everest again to prove to himself that he could still do it. This time, he doesn't think he has the body to climb Mt. Everest. If all goes well with his leg, he think he might be able to pick off a tournament here or there but he'll never be a week-in-week-out competing with the best players in the world player again.
 

LogansDad

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Not that it's surprising, but hearing that first hand from him is devastating to me as a fan of the sport. I know there are a ton of great players out there today, but none of them are as exciting to me as Tiger (even the more recent Tiger) was.
 

voidfunkt

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This is still a better outcome than many of us predicted! If he thinks he can still be competitive but with a limited schedule that’s amazing.
 

Average Reds

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This is still a better outcome than many of us predicted! If he thinks he can still be competitive but with a limited schedule that’s amazing.
At the time of his accident, this looked like the best-case scenario. And not a particularly reasonable one.

If he is able to play a limited number of events a year, I will be thrilled.
 

Greg29fan

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Not that it's surprising, but hearing that first hand from him is devastating to me as a fan of the sport. I know there are a ton of great players out there today, but none of them are as exciting to me as Tiger (even the more recent Tiger) was.
Right there with you, obviously this was always going to be the outcome, but actually hearing him saying was a real jolt.
 

Marciano490

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Man, we’re all just flimsy sacks of bone and flesh. You could have all the money in the world and crazy genetics and still stay broken for life because of one bad moment.
 

FL4WL3SS

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Not that it's surprising, but hearing that first hand from him is devastating to me as a fan of the sport. I know there are a ton of great players out there today, but none of them are as exciting to me as Tiger (even the more recent Tiger) was.
The end was near regardless, so it's not that surprising. Tiger was never playing full time into his late 40s.
 

Eagle3

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There was some speculation (IIRC, Todd Lewis posted about it) that Tiger could potentially be gearing up to play the PNC Father/Son challenge which is in a couple of weeks. The theory was that it's essentially a hit-and-giggle and on the competition side, he doesn't really need to hit driver or many long shots due to Charlie's game and advantage off the tee.
This was my first thought when I saw the video of him swinging. I think at this point the father/son tourney means as much or more to him as any regular tour event, plus he can use a cart. I hope he's able to play.
 

johnmd20

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Not that it's surprising, but hearing that first hand from him is devastating to me as a fan of the sport. I know there are a ton of great players out there today, but none of them are as exciting to me as Tiger (even the more recent Tiger) was.
I have to say, I am a little surprised at the reaction to this.

Tiger hasn't played close to a full schedule in years. Even in 2019 when he won the Masters, he played like 5 more tournaments the rest of the year. This reduced schedule has already happened.

edit - and he played 8 total events in the entire 2020 golf season. He was shut down before he got shut down.
 

FL4WL3SS

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Let's not forget he's been addicted to pills in the past, he's also probably fighting those demons as well. Get well Tiger, but I don't really care to see the comeback at this point. The PGA is passing him by at the moment.
 

joe dokes

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Maybe its the angle of the photo, but he looks enormous. And in his face, anyway, not in a good way. (understandable, of course).