Tiger Woods Car Accident - Ongoing News and Commentary

Deathofthebambino

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I heard on the radio that where Tiger crashed was just passed the entrance to where his neighborhood is and that he missed the turn. What I took from that was that he was on his way home at 7:12 a.m., not leaving the house at 7:12 a.m. No idea if any of that is true, but if he was out last night, or spent the night somewhere else, he could very well have fallen asleep, dozed off, been texting, etc.

I think it's fair to speculate given his history, but I'm not going to bother. Tiger is my favorite athlete this side of Tom Brady, and I just hope he's at least able to recover enough to enjoy retirement and playing golf with Charlie and his friends. Today blows as a golf fan.
 

djbayko

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2:03 PM PT -- Contrary to the initial release sent out by the L.A. County Sheriff's Department ... a source with the fire department tells us the jaws of life were NOT used to free Tiger from the crash.
1:19 PM PT -- TMZ has learned ... Tiger was staying at a hotel where a major network television show was being shot. Production sources tell TMZ, when the director arrived just before 7 AM, Tiger was driving his SUV very fast as he was leaving the property and almost hit the director's car. The director was shaken enough to tell production staff about it after he parked. A crew member who saw Tiger as he got in his SUV at the hotel tells TMZ, once Tiger got in his vehicle, there was a delay in driving off and he appeared "agitated and impatient." The crew member says once the delay was over, Tiger "took off fast."
1:00 PM PT -- Law enforcement sources tell TMZ Woods was alert enough at the scene of the accident to ask first responders to have his manager pick up his stuff. We're told cops have not found anything illicit inside the vehicle.
A photo from the crash scene appears to show blood on the driver's side airbag.
https://www.tmz.com/2021/02/23/tiger-woods-car-crash-golf-tournament/
 

Spelunker

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I feel like if Alex Smith was able to overcome a compound leg fracture that was subsequently infected and required multiple surgeries to fix and then returned to play football at a professional level, then Tiger stands a decent chance at recovering enough to play golf again.

A back injury, as you pointed out, might actually be harder to overcome, not to mention he’s likely going to be on high doses of painkillers for a while as he recovers, and I hope that doesn’t become a long term issue for him as well.
It also seems unlikely that a high speed car crash that results in compound fractures to at least one leg would be good for the back, especially for someone just coming off surgery.
 

DontTauntOrtizMe

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I thought it was Elin who was accused of the domestic violence, but I may be misremembering.

Fake Edit: This thread title made me chuckle. It reads like Tiger is some sort of pansy. "Tiger's in surgery after JUST one car accident. I didn't have to have surgery until my third car accident."
 

McBride11

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Apparently he was able to stand after getting out of the car and there was no sign of impairment according to the presser.
Was this mis heard or mis stated? A guy after an MVC who is immediately rushed to surgery for some leg fractures likely is not standing even if he is stone cold sober.

If you're rushed off the OR for fractured legs it more often means neurovascular compromise of severely open or displaced. Of course care paths could be altered bc he is a pro athlete (eg instead of splinting and rod / plate / pinning later) he may have gone straight to the OR.
 

Zomp

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Reporters repeatedly asked the police if what FL4WL3SS posted was true (so it was definitely a rumor making the rounds) and they shot it down pretty quickly. Once he was removed from the vehicle he was placed on a transfer board.
 

cshea

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I thought they just said there as no sign of I,pairment and that he was conscious. They also said the jaws of life were not used, it was a hallogen tool and an ax. That was more of a factual correction though I don’t think it really changes anything.
 

DJnVa

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ESPN saying no jaws of life, but extricated through windshield.
 

strek1

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I feel like if Alex Smith was able to overcome a compound leg fracture that was subsequently infected and required multiple surgeries to fix and then returned to play football at a professional level, then Tiger stands a decent chance at recovering enough to play golf again.

A back injury, as you pointed out, might actually be harder to overcome, not to mention he’s likely going to be on high doses of painkillers for a while as he recovers, and I hope that doesn’t become a long term issue for him as well.

There's also a big difference in bounceback between somebody in their 30's and somebody in their 40's.
 

FL4WL3SS

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Reporters repeatedly asked the police if what FL4WL3SS posted was true (so it was definitely a rumor making the rounds) and they shot it down pretty quickly. Once he was removed from the vehicle he was placed on a transfer board.
Guess I got bad into. Admittedly didn't watch the presser, but was following along in another thread. Totally my bad.
 

FL4WL3SS

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Even if he CAN come back, I question whether he will actually want to. It has seemed that he has been coasting a bit since his Masters win and the constant back battle has worn him down. Combine that with his kids getting older and Charlie being a good golfer, he may want to spend time with him instead of golf.
 

bosockboy

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Even if he CAN come back, I question whether he will actually want to. It has seemed that he has been coasting a bit since his Masters win and the constant back battle has worn him down. Combine that with his kids getting older and Charlie being a good golfer, he may want to spend time with him instead of golf.
Or just enjoy the Senior Tour in a few years at most.
 

BigSoxFan

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Given these reported injuries, what’s a realistic timeframe for him to just be walking again without assistance? 6 months?
 

Pablo's TB Lover

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Yeah, there's a wide gulf between making cuts and being competitive and winning tournaments going forward. Even before factoring in the injury comeback, just think about how long it took it took for Tiger to be consistent after the last substantial layoff. This time, he may casually swing a club by end of the year? Swinging a club in anger will take a while longer than that. So his recent muscle memory will be lost and it is a do-over at 45. Chances aren't great. Going forward, I wouldn't be surprised to see him do some charity events and play at Augusta for the ceremony of it, then mix in some senior tour events after 50. He was really enjoying his "the old guy can still get it" role the past year, but if there is next to zero chance of winning any particular week I can't see him continuing.

Certainly the other consideration is I think Tiger is going to start living his life around his son's schedule. However, whatever the case of this accident, even if he was stone cold sober and the cause was speeding...Tiger's got to relax with the risky behavior in order to actually be around for his son's development.
 

McBride11

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Shattered ankle and two leg fractures, one compound. Everything from his back to his age are working against him as far as a comeback goes.

View: https://twitter.com/DanielNMiller/status/1364363635045228545?s=19
None of this sounds good. But it is also vague. ‘Fractured ankle’ can imply many things (tibia, fibula, talus, calcaneous) but more importantly what the ligament / vascular damage is.
Probably a pilon fracture given the mechanism. ( bottom part of tibia).

Open (compound) frActure could have been the reason for emergent OR, but an open fibula is a lot different than a femur.
But likely tib / fib open fx
 
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santadevil

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We know he was in a serious accident. I wish he wasn't in it. But since he was, and was injured in at least a fairly significant way (and that can't be undone), I kind of hope that he was texting while driving. The reason I say that is because texting while driving is a HUGE problem and someone like Tiger getting in an accident while texting could be the kind of thing that helps snap others out of that habit.
Or, you know, just put in a law (you know, like seatbelts) and ticket the fuck out of people until they get it, just like we do here in Canada
 

Deathofthebambino

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Or, you know, just put in a law (you know, like seatbelts) and ticket the fuck out of people until they get it, just like we do here in Canada
It's the law here too (at least in every state that I'm aware of). Unfortunately, it stops people from doing it about as much as speed limit signs stop people from speeding.
 

Ale Xander

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Or, you know, just put in a law (you know, like seatbelts) and ticket the fuck out of people until they get it, just like we do here in Canada
https://usa.streetsblog.org/2020/06/12/study-for-nearly-half-of-drivers-threat-of-police-enforcement-doesnt-deter-texting/
"A shocking 43.7 percent of drivers who have crashed their cars in the last two years admitted to reading text messages behind the wheel, “even believing there is a risk of getting caught by police,” a study from AAA revealed. A further 42.7 percent of those drivers admitted to typing text messages while driving when they suspected law enforcement officers might be watching — even though cell phone use is a contributing factor in 22 to 24 percent of fatal car crashes. "

"96 percent of the survey respondents reported that they knew that cell phone use while operating a motor vehicle is “dangerous” or “extremely dangerous” — but that didn’t stop many of them from doing it."
 

SemperFidelisSox

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How do patients with a history of substance abuse get treated by doctors in situations like this? He must be in unimaginable pain. Would he even get morphine or something post-surgery?
 

nattysez

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None of this sounds good. But it is also vague. ‘Fractured ankle’ can imply many things (tibia, fibula, talus, calcaneous) but more importantly what the ligament / vascular damage is.
Probably a pilon fracture given the mechanism. ( bottom part of tibia).

Open (compound) frActure could have been the reason for emergent OR, but an open fibula is a lot different than a femur.
But likely tib / fib open fx
You nailed it. I'm impressed. Injuries are to lower legs, compound fracture of tibia and fibula in one leg, vascular injuries are a concern.

View: https://twitter.com/TWlegion/status/1364438134457573376?s=09

View: https://twitter.com/TigerWoods/status/1364447580520738820?s=09
 
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santadevil

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It's the law here too (at least in every state that I'm aware of). Unfortunately, it stops people from doing it about as much as speed limit signs stop people from speeding.
Slight difference though. At least when you're speeding, you're paying attention. Driving a 2 ton vehicle with zero awareness is more likely to get people killed and should be punished to a higher degree

Anyway, I'm pulling this off topic and will leave it that
 

axx

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Slight difference though. At least when you're speeding, you're paying attention. Driving a 2 ton vehicle with zero awareness is more likely to get people killed and should be punished to a higher degree

Anyway, I'm pulling this off topic and will leave it that
I would say that if LA wants to, they could charge Tiger with something. Like reckless driving.
 

McBride11

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You nailed it. I'm impressed. Injuries are to lower legs, compound fracture of tibia and fibula in one leg, vascular injuries are a concern.

View: https://twitter.com/TWlegion/status/1364438134457573376?s=09

View: https://twitter.com/TigerWoods/status/1364447580520738820?s=09
blind squirrel, broken watch etc.

The compartment syndrome stuff could be pretty bad (they basically filet the leg and underlying fascia open, exposing the muscle) to reduce pressure that was generated by the traumatic swelling +/- bleeding.

Was in the OR with a foot / ankle Ortho today. Grain of salt and all - 3rd hand or whatever he heard talus bone and lisfranc fractures along with the mentioned tib fib issues. Which given the force required also high chance of pilon fx as well.

He was skeptical of return to even recreational golf given the ankle mobility issues that are going to be created. Brutal.
 

jercra

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blind squirrel, broken watch etc.

The compartment syndrome stuff could be pretty bad (they basically filet the leg and underlying fascia open, exposing the muscle) to reduce pressure that was generated by the traumatic swelling +/- bleeding.

Was in the OR with a foot / ankle Ortho today. Grain of salt and all - 3rd hand or whatever he heard talus bone and lisfranc fractures along with the mentioned tib fib issues. Which given the force required also high chance of pilon fx as well.

He was skeptical of return to even recreational golf given the ankle mobility issues that are going to be created. Brutal.
Obviously this is anecdotal, but I have a friend who had similar damage done to his lower leg/ankle/foot in a motorcycle accident. He eventually returned to playing golf at a decent level but was always in a lot of pain. After a couple of years he eventually had his right foot amputated above the ankle and has a spring like prosthetic he wears when golfing now and is back down to a low single digit. Hopefully it doesn't come to that for Tiger, but at least it doesn't have to be the end of him playing recreationally and with his kids.
 

McBride11

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Obviously this is anecdotal, but I have a friend who had similar damage done to his lower leg/ankle/foot in a motorcycle accident. He eventually returned to playing golf at a decent level but was always in a lot of pain. After a couple of years he eventually had his right foot amputated above the ankle and has a spring like prosthetic he wears when golfing now and is back down to a low single digit. Hopefully it doesn't come to that for Tiger, but at least it doesn't have to be the end of him playing recreationally and with his kids.
Hopefully he can play recreationally. And again this is mostly word of mouth and speculation for 'usual' injuries and outcomes from these types of things.

The other thing not yet discussed, any damage to the recent or prior back surgeries. Pretty significant force in this crash as evidenced by the car damage and the injuries sustained (eg an open and comminuted fracture) don't happen under mild force.
 

Pablo's TB Lover

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Hopefully he can play recreationally. And again this is mostly word of mouth and speculation for 'usual' injuries and outcomes from these types of things.

The other thing not yet discussed, any damage to the recent or prior back surgeries. Pretty significant force in this crash as evidenced by the car damage and the injuries sustained (eg an open and comminuted fracture) don't happen under mild force.
I can at least vouch for not knowing the full extents yet, even more so with Tiger's surgical history. I was a passenger in a car accident which snapped my femur cleanly. It took months to recover from that, then afterward when the initial trauma was over I was feeling back pains and knee pains in my other leg which were not registering in the immediate aftermath. There is something to your body reacting to the most acute injuries first, then as this heals you realize the lingering effects on other parts of your body.
 

McBride11

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More speculoupdate from diff ortho friends

An extruded talus injury.
Which, dont google if you are squemish. Brutal injury. Basically worst mid foot injury.

hopefully this is inaccurate third hand otherwise amp is in the future discussion
 

Marciano490

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blind squirrel, broken watch etc.

The compartment syndrome stuff could be pretty bad (they basically filet the leg and underlying fascia open, exposing the muscle) to reduce pressure that was generated by the traumatic swelling +/- bleeding.

Was in the OR with a foot / ankle Ortho today. Grain of salt and all - 3rd hand or whatever he heard talus bone and lisfranc fractures along with the mentioned tib fib issues. Which given the force required also high chance of pilon fx as well.

He was skeptical of return to even recreational golf given the ankle mobility issues that are going to be created. Brutal.
How much do resources factor into recovery. Assuming Tiger can get the best treatment from the best doctors at the best hospitals and then the best rehab, is that a 10% more likely favorable outcome?
 

McBride11

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How much do resources factor into recovery. Assuming Tiger can get the best treatment from the best doctors at the best hospitals and then the best rehab, is that a 10% more likely favorable outcome?
wrong bone expert bud

Im sure top tier care will help, but if some of the injuries area accurate, there is a lot of luck involved.
How severe was the comminuted open / tib fib? It got rodded by all reports but we dont know how blasted apart it was.
How well does his heal from the fasciotomies (compartment syndrome).
If that talus expulsion is true, there is a chance the bone dies
So great care will help, but there is some genetics and luck involved in healing / recovery.

At minimum he is looking at rapid and early arthritis at the ankle it seems. Even the best PT wont fix that. Do PRP injections actually work? Ehhh

Soo short answer - maybe it helps.But it seems too many other factors (known and unknown) are at play to make money solve them.
 

radsoxfan

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More speculoupdate from diff ortho friends

An extruded talus injury.
Which, dont google if you are squemish. Brutal injury. Basically worst mid foot injury.

hopefully this is inaccurate third hand otherwise amp is in the future discussion
Talar extrusion... yikes. Very rare injury. See a lot more talar neck fractures and subtalar dislocations and a true extrusion. Hopefully not quite that bad.

Talus is the one bone in the lower extremity without a muscular/tendon attachment so its more vulnerable (though still obviously not typically vulnerable) to being essentially ejected out of the foot. I see maybe 1 or 2 a year tops and I see insane high speed car accident stuff stuff all day every day.

https://radiopaedia.org/cases/extruded-talus-1
Definitely risk of the bone dying since it loses its blood supply. They usually try to put it back and hope for the best, not an automatic amputation situation or anything but not good either.

Tha talus of course would be just one of the issues, any fractures within joints (lisfranc for example) are going to be set ups for bad arthritis. These patients with shattered multi-fracture ankles are lucky if they walk again without pain, often end up with fusions or other salvage procedures even if not an amputation.

Tiger was already on the fringe of his career with the back issues so would be very tough to make it back now. Surely out for all of 2021.
 
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McBride11

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I know a heroin addict who had a major surgery and they gave him fentanyl.
Yes. They would still give opioids.
But they could also utilize nerve blocks, such as an epidural, to help. NSAIDs are always fantastic pain control, better than opiates imo but Americans have a culture of ‘needing opiates’. (Americans are wusses when it comes to pain). But I think there is some ortho lit of not using NSAIDs during bone fx as it can impair bone healing.
 

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Yes. They would still give opioids.
But they could also utilize nerve blocks, such as an epidural, to help. NSAIDs are always fantastic pain control, better than opiates imo but Americans have a culture of ‘needing opiates’. (Americans are wusses when it comes to pain). But I think there is some ortho lit of not using NSAIDs during bone fx as it can impair bone healing.
Honest question, and not necessarily disagreeing with you but have been in real pain? I do think sometimes doctors do minimize patients pain so I’m curious to hear your opinion/ experience.
 

McBride11

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Honest question, and not necessarily disagreeing with you but have been in real pain? I do think sometimes doctors do minimize patients pain so I’m curious to hear your opinion/ experience.
Yes. Not sure the relavance.
Of course pain is relative, but Americans seem to believe without opioids their pain isnt being treated. Or that after surgery or traumatic event the pain should go from 8/10 to 0/10 whereas reduction to like 3/10 is a far better expectation using non narcs.
But there is a reason almost every other country in the world with top medical systems uses far less narcotics than we do. US rxs something like 80% of the world narcs with 4% of the world population.
I did some surgery in Croatia a few years back and asked them their post op pain regimen. Their eyes got real wide when I mentioned any opioids.

There is a time and place for opioids. But They are overused and over rx’d in the US.

https://www.pennmedicine.org/news/news-releases/2019/september/patients-in-the-us-and-canada-are-seven-times-as-likely-as-sweden-to-receive-opioids--surgery
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32657939/
https://qz.com/1198965/the-surprising-geography-of-opioid-use-around-the-world/
 

barbed wire Bob

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Yes. Not sure the relavance.
Of course pain is relative, but Americans seem to believe without opioids their pain isnt being treated. Or that after surgery or traumatic event the pain should go from 8/10 to 0/10 whereas reduction to like 3/10 is a far better expectation using non narcs.
But there is a reason almost every other country in the world with top medical systems uses far less narcotics than we do. US rxs something like 80% of the world narcs with 4% of the world population.
I did some surgery in Croatia a few years back and asked them their post op pain regimen. Their eyes got real wide when I mentioned any opioids.

There is a time and place for opioids. But They are overused and over rx’d in the US.

https://www.pennmedicine.org/news/news-releases/2019/september/patients-in-the-us-and-canada-are-seven-times-as-likely-as-sweden-to-receive-opioids--surgery
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32657939/
https://qz.com/1198965/the-surprising-geography-of-opioid-use-around-the-world/
Thanks! There was no real relevance, I was just curious.
 

McBride11

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Thanks! There was no real relevance, I was just curious.
Can we miss things or discount pain? Sure. But other components, HR and BP for example help weigh our decisions. Or the patient that claims 10/10 pain but is sleeping or chowing down on a cheeseburger when we walk in makes us very skeptical (at least myself).
 

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