This year's ESPN hit piece

[reggiecleveland]

Can't see this linked anywhere else
https://www.boston.com/sports/new-england-patriots/2018/01/05/despite-what-fans-might-think-this-is-not-a-patriot-hit-job-by-espn

Despite what fans might think, this is not a Patriot hit job by ESPN

But Wickersham deserves credit for drilling down into the realities and rumors, elaborating, and tying it all together, even as his use of anonymous sources and vaguely attributed quotes is perceived by those who want to doubt the story as a sign of holes in his reporting.

It’s not. Every reporter wants sources on the record. But in the quest for the full story, sometimes that is impossible, often because the source has something significant at stake if he or she shares information the team does not want public. Typically, when an unnamed source is used, the reporter gets the information confirmed by at least one other source and also shares the name of the source with an editor.

Wickersham isn’t anti-Patriot, either. He’s pro-truth, and quests to find it. We all remember Mortensen botching the Deflategate story from the get-go with his tweet. What is often forgotten is that ESPN also reported a detail-rich story in September 2015 about why the NFL was so determined to punish the Patriots for Deflategate.

The authors revealed in their reporting that several NFL owners, envious of the Patriots’ success and convinced they got off easy in 2007 during the Spygate scandal, implored Goodell to drop the hammer as compensation. Don Van Natta was one of the authors. The other? Seth Wickersham.[/QUOTE]

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

For funsies, this has become a parlor game in places known for big egos.

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.star-telegram.com/sports/nfl/dallas-cowboys/article193275189.html

The only people having fun are in the media. The NFL should not be pleased and almost certainly isn’t.

I am curious why the NFL should or would not be pleased. They owned the news cycle today, heading into WC weekend but it had nothing to do with concussions, a player getting in trouble with the law or domestic abuse. And the noise is only going to increase into the following weekend as the Patriots prepare to play their game.

What actual harm is being done here? The Patriots, who are probably one of the more disliked sports franchises outside of their own fan-base, are allegedly at the cusp of a messy divorce. Its good tabloid fodder that generates eyeballs and clicks without anyone actually getting hurt. I suspect the NFL, save for mabye Jason Garrett, is entirely thrilled with this story.

That said, I am genuinely interested in your take on why the rest of the league wouldn't like this sort of "news".

 

[PedroKsBambino]

Can't see this linked anywhere else
https://www.boston.com/sports/new-england-patriots/2018/01/05/despite-what-fans-might-think-this-is-not-a-patriot-hit-job-by-espn

Despite what fans might think, this is not a Patriot hit job by ESPN

A disappointing article from Finn, in that he takes on the easy strawman of the “homer” not the reality of the particular article.

There’s a good piece to be written drilling into the specific assertions Wickersham made and how he supported them—and if Finn wants to land on the side of this being adequately supported that’s his choice. For whatever reason Chad was too lazy (or on too quick a deadline) to do that piece and took a pretty weak out.

He’s better than that and hopefully we see it from him soon.

 

[tims4wins]

Reiss finally weighs in, somewhat. I still expect a lengthier piece to come

"Inner turmoil" would be too strong of a description from my perspective. The Patriots have always had a demanding, challenging work environment. My feeling is that however one describes the dynamic in 2017 -- and I do believe this year has come with its own unique challenges specific to Tom Brady, Belichick, Jimmy Garoppolo, Alex Guerrero, Robert Kraft, etc. -- it isn't anything that can't be overcome for everyone involved to accomplish their goals. Winning can always smooth over some of the turbulence. I also believe it is accurate that some in the building wonder about Belichick's future, and that's partially because he doesn't reveal his intentions to anyone, coupled with some of the unique dynamics from the season.

 

[Dotrat]

Based on recent comments from Chad Finn, Tom Curran, and Greg Bedard, it certainly seems as if Wickersham is well respected. The more I visit this thread, the more I think Wickersham spoke to a source or two on the team who is worried sick about the future of the franchise, has had a really stressful year, and knows very little.

 

[Ralphwiggum]

Love the fact that everyone thinks BB is a dirty, rotten, cheater, particularly in New York. But the second there’s a rumor that he might be leaving New England everyone wants him.

 

[dcmissle]

I am curious why the NFL should or would not be pleased. They owned the news cycle today, heading into WC weekend but it had nothing to do with concussions, a player getting in trouble with the law or domestic abuse. And the noise is only going to increase into the following weekend as the Patriots prepare to play their game.

What actual harm is being done here? The Patriots, who are probably one of the more disliked sports franchises outside of their own fan-base, are allegedly at the cusp of a messy divorce. Its good tabloid fodder that generates eyeballs and clicks without anyone actually getting hurt. I suspect the NFL, save for mabye Jason Garrett, is entirely thrilled with this story.

That said, I am genuinely interested in your take on why the rest of the league wouldn't like this sort of "news".

There is no scandal, and it’s not as if they were going to lose the week to college hoops, the NBA or the run up to Daytona.

It would have been a good week to focus on beginnings rather than endings. Rams. Jags. If you want to go Felger, whether the Chiefs will break a five-game home playoff losing streak.

There is not a lot of future left in Kraft/BB/Brady. There are 31 other teams. And there are several weeks left to hype the Pats.

 

[dcmissle]

This is a decent, realistic appraisal of how the world works, including how the NFL works.

Get by the author, and his playful digs — “Camp Happy Face”, “we’re just a pebble” — and it totally makes sense.

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/columnists/ron_borges/2018/01/borges_patriots_getting_reminder_that_it_often_ends_ugly_in_the

 

[Gambler7]

This is a decent, realistic appraisal of how the world works, including how the NFL works.

Get by the author, and his playful digs — “Camp Happy Face”, “we’re just a pebble” — and it totally makes sense.

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/columnists/ron_borges/2018/01/borges_patriots_getting_reminder_that_it_often_ends_ugly_in_the

The most interesting thing in there is that he seems to indicate Yee being the agent for both was a problem (him not wanting to upset Brady) and Jimmy didn't seem willing to sign anything.

When he unloaded Jacoby Brissett it was further evidence he was going to play this hand out until next offseason, when he could always tag Garoppolo, whose agent had made clear they had little interest in signing a new deal at any price.

Normally agents say novenas in hope of getting a backup quarterback big money. Don Yee was not interested. Why? For the same reason I always argued with union head Gene Upshaw that agents should not be allowed to represent two quarterbacks on the same team. It’s the only position where what’s good for one guy is bad for the other.

If Yee wanted to remain Tom Brady’s agent, which he did, he best be careful with Jimmy G’s future not colliding with Brady’s present. That’s a tricky walk but in the end it will work out for both of them. Who it didn’t work out for is Belichick.

 

[tims4wins]

Have we ever learned how Jimmy ended up with Yee as an agent? Was he his agent before he was drafted by the Pats?

 

[DJnVa]

I’m not going by the article. BB wouldn’t waste any time leaving for NY if he intends to leave. If this has any smoke, McD would be smart to wait out the situation before agreeing to anything. If BB stays, then he can go elsewhere. If B.B. leaves, then he’ll definitely be considered to be his replacement. Maybe even Patricia should wait too.

Patricia, looking for his first HC job isn't going to wait. In all fairness to them, BB kinda owes it to them to squash this. If not publicly then at least privately.

 

[bankshot1]

I have yet to seen a detailed analysis, with numbers and rationals about team construction, that show that it made sense for the Pats to franchise JG This is the only keep 2 QBs scenarios available to the Pats, and I've heard hot takz that say thaty could have restructured... yada yada yada.

So if that anlysis has been published, could someone point me in the right direction.

In the absence of the failed "keep 2" outcome I think a hard and unpleasant decision had to be made, and disapointment was the inevitable outcome. Whether that then must lead to a destructive fracture is uncertain, but I hope not.

 

[NortheasternPJ]

Have we ever learned how Jimmy ended up with Yee as an agent? Was he his agent before he was drafted by the Pats?

Yes he did
http://sportsagentblog.com/tag/jimmy-garoppolo/

 

[tims4wins]

Yes he did
http://sportsagentblog.com/tag/jimmy-garoppolo/

Thanks

 

[Sportsbstn]

It’s the best case scenario for Yee to have Jimmy starting elsewhere in the NFL. More money for Jimmy and himself. I never understood why management would believe that Jimmy would ever sign up to be a backup, that was ludicrous from the get go.

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

The most interesting thing in there is that he seems to indicate Yee being the agent for both was a problem (him not wanting to upset Brady) and Jimmy didn't seem willing to sign anything.

That portion might be interesting in what it’s suggesting, but it’s ridiculous on premise and it’s nothing that couldn’t and hasn’t been already assumed.

First, no, as covered many times, he couldn’t ‘always tag JG’. Not at least in any realistic sense. It would have meant serious cuts to the roster. Complete ignorance or dismissal of the salary cap is intellectually negligent.

Second, how exactly does it work that you don’t allow one agent two represent two QBs on the same team? Forbid a team from drafting the player they want? Tell a player they can’t work with the agent they want? There are rather large union issues brought up by such a premise. Further, why is it the only position it’s an issue at? What if La’Veon Bell and Alvin Kamara we’re on the same team, that doesn’t present the same conflict of interests?

 

[NDame616]

You don't know why the Patriots would think that a QB would fall in line and do what's "best for the team"?

 

[Jim Ed Rice in HOF]

You don't know why the Patriots would think that a QB would fall in line and do what's "best for the team"?

If you’re saying that the Patriots would assume anyone would follow what Brady has done through his career means to some extent you think the Patriots aren’t that smart.

Brady’s financial situation is unlike that of pretty much anyone in the NFL and for the Patriots not to realize that would be crazy. Yes, they want players that will restructure and do things that will benefit the team but I can’t imagine they assume that is what the majority of their players will do.

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

If you’re saying that the Patriots would assume anyone would follow what Brady has done through his career means to some extent you think the Patriots aren’t that smart.

Brady’s financial situation is unlike that of pretty much anyone in the NFL and for the Patriots not to realize that would be crazy. Yes, they want players that will restructure and do things that will benefit the team but I can’t imagine they assume that is what the majority of their players will do.

I think you should check your sarcasm meter. It may need calibration.

 

[Jim Ed Rice in HOF]

Sorry, I’m sitting at a swim meet. The chlorine must have rusted a couple of the parts or they’re still on vapor lock from the walk from the parking lot to the pool.

 

[troparra]

I have yet to seen a detailed analysis, with numbers and rationals about team construction, that show that it made sense for the Pats to franchise JG This is the only keep 2 QBs scenarios available to the Pats, and I've heard hot takz that say thaty could have restructured... yada yada yada.

So if that anlysis has been published, could someone point me in the right direction.

In the absence of the failed "keep 2" outcome I think a hard and unpleasant decision had to be made, and disapointment was the inevitable outcome. Whether that then must lead to a destructive fracture is uncertain, but I hope not.

There were a few discussions prior to the trade, but I can’t find one that does the whole, thorough analysis.
One take was Reiss (from September) suggesting they tag Garoppolo and split the cost between this season and next season. I didn’t know you could do that.
Still, that requires Garoppolo to accept a backup role for 2018.
From Reiss in the article:

"One thought I had was maybe you press fast-forward on that. Why not visit that right now? You have a team with $14-15 million in cap space right now, maybe you take that franchise figure, split it in half? 'Jimmy, if you give us one more year, we'll give it half to you this year, half to you next year.' And you lessen the cap hit.

"Just in theory, I think that's something that would be very Patriot-like, to me, to buy them more time."

http://www.businessinsider.com/patriots-jimmy-garoppolo-future-practice-squad-payment-2017-9

 

[tims4wins]

They wouldn’t technically be franchising him in that scenario - it is just a bridge contract. Which he wouldn’t sign. He probably wouldn’t have even signed a franchise tender

 

[snowmanny]

The most interesting thing in there is that he seems to indicate Yee being the agent for both was a problem (him not wanting to upset Brady) and Jimmy didn't seem willing to sign anything.

This always made the most sense.

Jimmy wanted to start and, presumably, get paid and the way it worked out was the absolute best case scenario for him and for Yee. They're ending up with a $100,000,000 contract after a season that started with him glued to the bench.

Brady wants to play for as long as he can and the way it worked out was the absolute best case scenario for him and for Yee. If there was "pressure" from Brady it was probably coming via Yee who also had another agenda.

Garoppolo and Yee had the leverage here, weirdly, but the big names are Ktaft/Brady/Belicjick* so they get the ink.

*Edit: names are approximate

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

Do we know how much longer Belichick's current contract has to go?

 

[NortheasternPJ]

Do we know how much longer Belichick's current contract has to go?

No one knows but it’s believed to be a 5 year deal he signed in 2013.

 

[soxhop411]

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

Have you ever had inside knowledge of a major news story that breaks something based on sources? In my job, I have had that four times I can remember -- and once the story was picked up very nationally and publicly and the same inaccuracies were repeated from the underlying unsound foundation. All were situations in which the principals cannot or would not comment. In every single case, major details were flat out wrong. I guess arguably in one case the story had some of the details but the inaccuracies were minor -- but they were several.

Some contained good and surprising reporting, but for the most part you just shake your head at how it's clear they took a nugget of something and ran in the completely wrong direction. I've talked to a number of colleagues and they all have similar stats on inaccuracies. Most of the stuff I'm familiar with has a legal angle or quasi-political/legal angle, so there's an added layer of privilege that makes the reporting harder. Still, it's crazy how wrong these guys are so often, yet how even knowing this I still give reporting where I don't have inside knowledge a presumption of correctness.

Anyway, long winded pseudo humblebrag for my main point -- it must drive the principals here -- Kraft, Brady, Belichick, even Guerrero -- batshit furious.

 

[tims4wins]

Kraft talks to MMQB

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/01/06/new-england-patriots-robert-kraft-bill-belichick-tom-brady-espn

Edit: so Seth has zero quotes from Kraft after working on this for 8 weeks - and King has direct quotes 24 hours later. This reflects supremely poorly on Seth.


The next time I spoke with Bill about it was the Monday before the trade deadline. He called me on that Monday and said he got a deal with San Francisco, Jimmy for a second-round pick and [quarterback] Brian Hoyer. Turns out they had to cut Hoyer and then we got him. But really, this was basically a second-round pick and Brian Hoyer for Jimmy. Bill asked me if I was OK with this. I was really taken aback a little bit. I wanted to think about it. I talked to Jonathan, who was okay with it, and I called Bill back and said, ‘OK.’”

 

[tims4wins]

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

I hate that this is coming up during the playoffs, but in the end I wonder if all this is a good thing. If there are some frayed edges about Guerrero or any simmering resentments as one would imagine with any highly competitive men working together for two decades then maybe having it be out there is a good thing. Even if 90 percent is bullshit, maybe the existence of the story makes the principals have some conversations that they might not otherwise have had. "You know I love you, Tom," or whatever.

 

[tims4wins]

I don’t disagree with that in the least

 

[snowmanny]

I know the #BB2NYG is dead but the idea that BB would be mad at Kraft for meddling and preventing him from moving on from TB12 and therefore quit... and choose as his next landing spot a team whose owner literally just fired a coach for literally trying to move on from #LiterallyEli seems...counterintuitive.

 

[tims4wins]

I know the #BB2NYG is dead but the idea that BB would be mad at Kraft for meddling and preventing him from moving on from TB12 and therefore quit... and choose as his next landing spot a team whose owner literally just fired a coach for literally trying to move on from #LiterallyEli seems...counterintuitive.

Bingo

 

[ifmanis5]

Alex Guerrero releases a statement: https://tb12sports.com/blogs/tb12-playbook-we-got-this/ag-in-my-own-words?utm_source=hootsuite&utm_medium=social&utm_term=&utm_content=AlexGuerrero&utm_campaign=InMyOwnWords

It's a very generic statement. Here's a portion...

Many of the athletes I have worked with I consider not only clients, but also close friends. One of those is Tom Brady with whom I have a great friendship that I cherish. It is a privilege working alongside someone with his commitment and discipline. Watching Tom succeed as he grows older has been a personal and professional highlight, because I consider seeing players’ and clients’ achievements in their own careers to be the most gratifying part of my work.

 

[wiffleballhero]

Even if 90 percent is bullshit, maybe the existence of the story makes the principals have some conversations that they might not otherwise have had. "You know I love you, Tom," or whatever.

In this hypothetical is it Bill saying this to Tom? God I hope not. I would prefer that conversation being something more along the lines of, "... yeah Tom, bunch of bullshit. So enough about the noise, let's talk about the tape here...."

 

[allstonite]

I hate that this is coming up during the playoffs, but in the end I wonder if all this is a good thing. If there are some frayed edges about Guerrero or any simmering resentments as one would imagine with any highly competitive men working together for two decades then maybe having it be out there is a good thing. Even if 90 percent is bullshit, maybe the existence of the story makes the principals have some conversations that they might not otherwise have had. "You know I love you, Tom," or whatever.

Of course it came out during the playoffs. Like others in the thread I’m just surprised it didn’t come out sometime next week when the Patriots will be back and have more media availability. It’s not like there was any breaking news in this that needed to come out right away. I’m not sure there was any news in it beyond stuff that has been speculated about locally for the last few months (Jimmy G trade, Guerrero) or stuff that’s been debunked (Patriot of the week, Kraft demanding the trade).

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

In this hypothetical is it Bill saying this to Tom? God I hope not. I would prefer that conversation being something more along the lines of, "... yeah Tom, bunch of bullshit. So enough about the noise, let's talk about the tape here...."

I was being facetious about the quote, but the points is that it may cause some "us against them" reflection that brings any minor resentments in the open.

 

[DJnVa]

King contacted Wickersham after Kraft's comments and the writer said he stands by his story.

I'm not a journalist, but shouldn't the very next question be: "Are you saying Kraft is lying?"

 

[Harry Hooper]

From the King story:

Wickersham detailed how Kraft ordered Belichick to trade Garoppolo: “Two weeks before the Nov. 1 trading deadline [the deadline actually was Oct. 31], Belichick met with Kraft to discuss the quarterback situation. According to staffers, the meeting ran long, lasting half the day and pushing back Belichick's other meetings. The office was buzzing.

So Wickersham even got the day of the trade deadline wrong, but we have to keep listening to folks like Bedard tell us how careful and tapped in a reporter Seth is?

 

[Al Zarilla]

Of course it came out during the playoffs. Like others in the thread I’m just surprised it didn’t come out sometime next week when the Patriots will be back and have more media availability. It’s not like there was any breaking news in this that needed to come out right away. I’m not sure there was any news in it beyond stuff that has been speculated about locally for the last few months (Jimmy G trade, Guerrero) or stuff that’s been debunked (Patriot of the week, Kraft demanding the trade).

Maybe ESPN is getting desperate and wanted it out ASAP. Just me, but I go to NFLN, MLBN and NBATV for news in the respective sports, where I used to tune in ESPN a lot. It's a blue moon now when I watch any of their programming. Last night's Celtics game. or a MNF football game if the Pats are playing. Last 5 years or so, I liked Mike and Mike, but now that's gone.

 

[DJnVa]

Wickersham said on EEI that he knew that if it came out the week of a game that there would be even more backlash, that they were doing it with an agenda in mind.

 

[FL4WL3SS]

Well exactly, they didn't want it to be too obvious that it was agenda driven.

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

Lombardi doesn’t see Belichick going to the Giants

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

I hate that this is coming up during the playoffs, but in the end I wonder if all this is a good thing. If there are some frayed edges about Guerrero or any simmering resentments as one would imagine with any highly competitive, thate men working together for two decades then maybe having it be out there is a good thing. Even if 90 percent is bullshit, maybe the existence of the story makes the principals have some conversations that they might not otherwise have had. "You know I love you, Tom," or whatever.

I love that if this is coming out, its now. a week for them to froth and then go "fuck everyone". Sixth ring incoming!

 

[dcmissle]

I know the #BB2NYG is dead but the idea that BB would be mad at Kraft for meddling and preventing him from moving on from TB12 and therefore quit... and choose as his next landing spot a team whose owner literally just fired a coach for literally trying to move on from #LiterallyEli seems...counterintuitive.

There are no second acts in this business and certainly none at the age of 66, which B.B. will be in April.

He has to look no further than his mentor Parcells. If that’s not enough, there is Lombardi. Add Holmgren. Say Vermeil if you want, but he won nothing in Philadelphia. Ditto Polian who won nothing in Buffalo and Carolina — like Vermeil, Polian won his late and has only one. Andy Reid still looking for his first. Chuck Noll, Tom Landry, Joe Gibbs - one Act guys (Gibbs’ second sucked).

And lest there be any doubt, rings are the only things that matter in this context — that’s how he names his boats.

Shula? Fine. Shula was 40 fucking years old when he took control of the Dolphins — 33 when he became HC of the Colts.

As Simmons tweeted, blindness to age — whether it be 76, 65 or 40 — is one of the comical aspects of this whole thing.

 

[Al Zarilla]

I just said on ESPN radio with @AnitaMarks that there is a better chance for a Mars Landing then Belichick coaching the Giants next year.
Lombardi doesn’t see Belichick going to the Giants

So, 2030?

 

[dcmissle]

Shank enjoying it —

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bostonglobe.com/sports/patriots/2018/01/06/robert-kraft-ruled-with-his-heart-and-overruled-bill-belichick-here-are/g9hJZyhDIYmyMlkPi8bvAN/amp.html

 

[Al Zarilla]

Gotta love Schefter. Pregame show on ABC, but they have a mostly ESPN crew going over the upcoming game, doing some of the “You got Mossed” thing with Randy, and other stuff. Suddenly, Suzy Kolber gets all stern faced and says “we have to get to some much more serious stuff”: of course the Wickersham article and the “power struggle” in NE. She says you first, Adam (Mortensen is also there). Schefter goes right into who Josh and Marty P. Are interviewing with, completely ignoring the Wickersham article. Schefter is beautiful. Even Mort talked only about Tennessee. Completely deflected away from “Mein Struggle”. Sorry about the Nazi alluding.

 

[dcmissle]

Gotta love Schefter. Pregame show on ABC, but they have a mostly ESPN crew going over the upcoming game, doing some of the “You got Mossed” thing with Randy, and other stuff. Suddenly, Suzy Kolber gets all stern faced and says “we have to get to some much more serious stuff”: of course the Wickersham article and the “power struggle” in NE. She says you first, Adam (Mortensen is also there). Schefter goes right into who Josh and Marty P. Are interviewing with, completely ignoring the Wickersham article. Schefter is beautiful. Even Mort talked only about Tennessee. Completely deflected away from “Mein Struggle”. Sorry about the Nazi alluding.

He is terrific. Survives there solely on results because he just refuses to feed the fire. Earlier, he crushed B.B. > NYG, which I don’t imagine pleases them.

 

[Mueller's Twin Grannies]

ESPN's intent behind this piece could not be more transparent. It's all about the fact that the network doesn't want another two boring weeks of Patriots players and coaches refusing to give them sound bites or yuk it up with the MNF crew during the lead up to the Super Bowl. This is all so that if the Patriots do lose in the playoffs, they can go, "See? We told you they were fractured and nobody believed us," as they wear their shit-eating grins and cut to highlights of one of their binkies. And if they don't lose, they'll just pretend something changed and everyone is buddies again, "but this was an abrupt about-face from how contentious things were going into the playoffs. Winning really does solve everything!"