This is like watching a plane run out of fuel and slowly descend back to earth--only to end in fiery crash.
This will be Derek Jeter's final season
- Thread starter Corsi
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http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/mlb/many-american-league-all-star-game-ballot-races-will-come-down-to-the-wire?ymd=20140622&content_id=81056398&vkey=news_mlb
Edge? A 106 to 78 wRC+ lead is not edging him out. Alexei also plays better defense and is a better base runner. He dwarfs him, especially at the plate where he has a .113 OPS advantage.
Of course, in a way, it's fitting that Jeter is going to start in the All Star game while being one of the worst regulars in the majors.
Edge? A 106 to 78 wRC+ lead is not edging him out. Alexei also plays better defense and is a better base runner. He dwarfs him, especially at the plate where he has a .113 OPS advantage.
Of course, in a way, it's fitting that Jeter is going to start in the All Star game while being one of the worst regulars in the majors.
Jeter's all class, so even if he wins the vote he'll acknowledge that he has no business being there and he'll give up his starting spot to Ramirez.
I'd be embarrassed to accept an ASG invite while sporting an OPS of just over .600.
I'd be embarrassed to accept an ASG invite while sporting an OPS of just over .600.
Why? It's a popularity contest, not an endorsement of who is having the best season.
The fans are emphatically saying they want to see Jeter start the all-star game, so why would he give up his spot to Alexi Ramirez? If the fans wanted to see Ramirez play, they'd vote for him.
The fans are emphatically saying they want to see Jeter start the all-star game, so why would he give up his spot to Alexi Ramirez? If the fans wanted to see Ramirez play, they'd vote for him.
ThePrideofShiner said:
It's not just a popularity contest, though. If it was, all of the roster spots would be determined by fan vote and the game would have no impact on the playoffs. MLB is trying to have it both ways and it's a clusterfuck that sometimes leads to situations like this, where an undeserving player is voted in and the water gets murky.
Lose Remerswaal said:
He gave up 3 runs on defense the inning before, though, just for the record. Two outs, runners on first and second, routine ball to his right that he fields cleanly. He looks at second, the 2B can't beat Reyes to the bag. He looks at third, Solarte isn't there. He throws to first (LIKE HE SHOULD HAVE DONE FROM THE START), runner is just safe, bases loaded. Next batter clears the bases, gotta love those intangibles.
You didn't hear the news? He's thinking about coming back for one more year. He doesn't think his performance this year is indicative of what he's really capable of and he wants to go out on a high note.
I appreciate the first 18 years of his career. Some guys start fast and then by the 10th year they're hitting .265 and piling up injuries. The last two years for Jeter have been sad but he's not the first great player to stay too long at the dance.glennhoffmania said:
glennhoffmania said:
Honus Wagner had a tough 40 year-old season, too. But he came back strong at 41 and 42. Someone should make sure Derek knows there's precedent.
WayBackVazquez said:
You don't think someone who respects the game as much as Jeter knows its history already?
@FieldingBible: Stat of the Day: Over the past decade, Derek Jeter has cost the Yankees 128 runs as compared to an average SS. That total is second only to Adam Dunn's -161 among all players. Jeter has been 7 runs below average in 2014.
Jeter hit leadoff last night. He only saw 17 pitches in 5 PA, but did squeeze out a single.
His OBP is .319.
His OBP is .319.
You know what would be the worst scenario for Jeter's swan song? The Yankees finishing in last place. He has never been about his own numbers. It has always been about making the playoffs and then trying to advance. I see all this stuff about his OPS and weak offense. The numbers bother him, of course, but it is part of the aging process. He just wants to go through the next 11 weeks and get to the playoffs. The luxury for him, whether right or wrong, is that he gets to play almost every day, perhaps because he has earned the right over the last 20 years.
terrynever said:
The way you're writing about him here, this is the Derek Jeter experience in a nutshell. Sweet Christ am I glad it's finally ending.
While we've got you, terry--what are his plans for the next couple years?
If he were my kid, I'd tell him to get married and settle down.JohntheBaptist said:
We all speak from our own perspective in life, John. I am really happy he played for the team I root for over the last 20 years. But I felt the same way about Mantle and Munson, just as Red Sox fans did about Williams, Yaz and Pedro, to name a few. Sadly, we identify with our favorite players, although I learned a long time ago not to let an 0-for-4 ruin my own day. My life is different from baseball. We're just a little bit nuts about the whole daily obsession that baseball becomes every summer.
Excuse me for my perspective. I'm getting old and sentimental about the whole fan thing.
I just think the whole thing is infantile. It's been happening his whole career, but the Angelic Persona Jeter thing is getting comically worse as it draws to a close and people rush to be the ones to hold him in the highest regard. What would Jeter do?
I've read tons of stuff with the tone of terry's post since he announced and to me it's embarrassing. Everyone seems to write with this assurance about "who he is" and "what he will/ would do" because he's not an actual human being, he's this thing sportswriters, etc project some image of hero worship onto. He's constructed a persona--savvy though it may have been--and people bite on it hard. Something similar happens to many athletes, though not all. It has just never been as pervasive and frequently absurd as it has with Jeter.
Whatever. Not exactly a newsflash. Glad it's ending.
I've read tons of stuff with the tone of terry's post since he announced and to me it's embarrassing. Everyone seems to write with this assurance about "who he is" and "what he will/ would do" because he's not an actual human being, he's this thing sportswriters, etc project some image of hero worship onto. He's constructed a persona--savvy though it may have been--and people bite on it hard. Something similar happens to many athletes, though not all. It has just never been as pervasive and frequently absurd as it has with Jeter.
Whatever. Not exactly a newsflash. Glad it's ending.
Your opinion is as good as mine. I respect what you are saying. Not sure you respect my opinion but that's okay. We're all baseball fans.JohntheBaptist said:
JohntheBaptist said:
Totally agree. Besides, I think terry has posted those or similar thoughts multiple times now
I don't understand how people can say or type those things without feeling like a giant douche. Jeter not being a fuck-up (that we know about) has gotten him a lot of mileage.
My point was that I found your post an odd way to express/ formulate an opinion on the guy (if that's what that was)--and I feel like I've read many do the same recently. Kind of reads like something his parents or a confidant would say. I didn't miss the literally countless times it has been reported to me over the last 20 years that Derek Jeter cares more about winning than his stats, nor do I doubt that it's true. Jeter forbid.
Well, he was born on my birthday and I did feel a connection from the time I learned that info, when he was still in the minors. As a former sports writer, I'm objective enough to know his shortcomings. I actually interviewed Ken Huckaby around the time Jeter was named SI Sportsman of the Year. You guys know the Huckaby story so I won't go into it here. Jeter seems kind of cold when it comes to certain things. His fielding issues are well-known. I guess what I appreciate about the franchise is we get to salute certain players over the years who leave pinstripes with their legacy intact. How often does that happen around MLB? Ripken. Gwynn. It's pretty rare but the Yankees have done that with Mo, Jeter, Rivera and Posada. I know the rest of baseball is sick of it but we Yankee fans find it kind of cool, that our owners don't dump these guys when they are out of gas. It's costing the franchise, and has for the last few years, but the bonus is we get players who spend their entire careers in one uniform. Except for Pettitte, and we still hold that against him.JohntheBaptist said:
I don't regret rooting for Jeter, even if the past two years have been difficult.
Touche. Actually, I am kind of sick of Mo after the farewell tour and his continuing prominence. I enjoyed his career more than any Yankee since Mantle but the way these guys want to go out with all the adolation sort of bothers me. Guess I don't love God enough.Snodgrass'Muff said:
I understand. But tradition is a large part of what the Yankees do, and something they still profit from.jon abbey said:
terrynever said:
I think the rest of baseball sees it very differently; the Yankees could do that because they are the Yankees. Up until Cano, the Yankees literally did not one time fail to re-sign one of their stars because they couldn't afford to keep him. Not a single time in 40 years of free agency. Cano was literally the first.
Look, plenty of franchises would love for their homegrown stars to retire in their uniform. That's not some moral superiority on the Yankees' part. Only the Yankees could afford to say "screw it" and outbid everyone to make SURE that it happened... until Cano, at least.
Yeah...not to speak for the regular Yankee fans on the board, but my NYY fan friends tend to have an issue of conflating "moral superiority, vision, and caring" with "having had the most financial resources by a significant amount for a very, very long time."
Which is why they seem so aghast at the attempt to get under the luxury tax. Even doing so half-heartedly (and ultimately unsuccessfully) seemed like sacrificing a birthright.
Which is why they seem so aghast at the attempt to get under the luxury tax. Even doing so half-heartedly (and ultimately unsuccessfully) seemed like sacrificing a birthright.
The only moral superiority I ever see associated with baseball payrolls is the yearly SOSH infatuation with winning the Payroll Efficiency Championship.
Maybe we'd let it go if Yankeedom dropped this bogus conceit of New York and the Steinbrenners always being willing and dedicated to doing "everything it takes to contend, whatever it takes." As if this means anything other than spending extra money.EvilEmpire said:
LeoCarrillo said:
Although kind of dated now, the best line I've heard on this was "Rooting for the Yankees is like rooting for IBM."
I think some of the board's focus on the budget is simply wanting the Sox to make intelligent choices and thus have a greater chance of being competitive.
Also, it would reduce my enjoyment of the Sox if they simply signed every high-end FA that wandered across the market. It's one thing to root for the laundry, but my childhood/young adult experience of the Sox involved railing against that kind of competitive disadvantage (as enjoyed by the Yankees.)
After hearing the comments from the guy I met (see the thread on the Sox forum for the background), the Jeter situation is even more ridiculous as far as I'm concerned. The guy allegedly is hurting and just trying to get through the season, yet they continue to run him out there pretty much every day, even DHing him when they want to put Ryan in the field. Has there ever been a more inept second hitter and/or guy who has to DH when he's not in the field?
Plus the stories I heard about him and ARod partly show the kind of guy he really is. Basically he held a grudge and barely spoke to ARod for over a decade over something ARod said in 2003. That isn't the kind of leadership and putting the team first mentality that you'd expect from the guy who is constantly referred to as one of the greatest leaders ever.
I know SSS and defensive metrics limitations apply, but I find it interesting that both FG and B-Ref have Jeter as a plus defender in 2014.
Edit: I just checked and now B-Ref has him as slightly worse than replacement on defense.
Plus the stories I heard about him and ARod partly show the kind of guy he really is. Basically he held a grudge and barely spoke to ARod for over a decade over something ARod said in 2003. That isn't the kind of leadership and putting the team first mentality that you'd expect from the guy who is constantly referred to as one of the greatest leaders ever.
I know SSS and defensive metrics limitations apply, but I find it interesting that both FG and B-Ref have Jeter as a plus defender in 2014.
Edit: I just checked and now B-Ref has him as slightly worse than replacement on defense.
glennhoffmania said:
Given how much we've learned about ARod over the years (rampant cheater, epic douche, narcissistic to a degree far beyond most pro athletes), I heartily disagree that Jeter showed poor leadership in treating him the way he did. Jeter certainly wasn't talking out of school about him or anything. The respect Jeter seems to have in the game from his peers says a lot more about his leadership than his relationship with ARod.
Edit: I mean, really? At this point is there any question about how much of an asshole ARod is?
I'm not at all suggesting that ARod was a decent guy who was shunned unfairly by Jeter. But the fact is that they were teammates, and were most likely to be teammates for many years. In that situation you have to make the best of it. Ignoring arguably the best player on your team because he said some stupid shit when he was acquired doesn't seem like the best way to handle things. I give Jeter credit for keeping it quiet though as I'm sure there are plenty of things he could've made public re: ARod.
glennhoffmania said:
C'mon. We don't know that Jeter ignored ARod solely because of a single comment. ARod is who he is. Jeter knew him well. There were probably lots of reasons they didn't get along once ARod joined the team. And as you acknowledged, even though they didn't get along, Jeter still kept everything in house. I've never seen any indication that not getting along with ARod prevented Jeter from being professional and working with him on or off the field as necessary.
I remain stuck on the whole "everything for the betterment of the team" nonsense. If that was true, Jeter would have played third. There was absolutely no credible argument that Jeter was a better shortstop than A-Rod in 2003. Or in 2004. Or in 2005. Etc. If the hagiography was true, wouldn't St. Jeter have been so noble as to move to third?
normal caveats Jeter is a great player blah blah blah. But let's pump the brakes on the whole "totally selfless" nonsense. He had the chance to make the team better by allowing a better player to play short, and he chose not to.
normal caveats Jeter is a great player blah blah blah. But let's pump the brakes on the whole "totally selfless" nonsense. He had the chance to make the team better by allowing a better player to play short, and he chose not to.
Old Fart Tree said:
Or volunteer to move down in the order instead of being cemented in the second slot despite his .646 OPS.
I can excuse that a bit more. This Yankees team isn't going anywhere anyway, and the fans are paying to see Derek Jeter hit five times, not four, and maybe hit a few more counting stat milestones. So I can excuse that. Besides, it's not like he's keeping Pete Rose out of the two spot. The lineup is pretty thin all down the line.
But those Yankee teams from 2004 on were always contenders; those seasons mattered. Not moving to third did damage to multiple seasons where they could have won it all. How does he get a pass from the media for that? Because his spit cures cancer? Give me a break.
But those Yankee teams from 2004 on were always contenders; those seasons mattered. Not moving to third did damage to multiple seasons where they could have won it all. How does he get a pass from the media for that? Because his spit cures cancer? Give me a break.
I hear you, but as was pointed out to me in the Peavy thread, NY is 3 games out of first place and has a legit shot at winning the division, at least until Tanaka goes under the knife. Before Tanaka got hurt, if they were to add another pitcher they could easily make a run. But instead of a lineup such as Gardner/Ellsbury/Teixeira/McCann/Beltran they're running Jeter out there in the two hole to ground out to 2B 3 times per game. And the idea of DHing him is laughable.
The SS issue starting in 2004 is definitely a better example so I agree with you. But there are many examples of Jeter not putting his team first over the years yet the legend continues to grow. It's kind of baffling.
The SS issue starting in 2004 is definitely a better example so I agree with you. But there are many examples of Jeter not putting his team first over the years yet the legend continues to grow. It's kind of baffling.
You mean like the time he told the fans to stop booing jason Giambi, only to then say he cant tell the fans what to do when they were booing A-rod?? http://tinyurl.com/oqvaptyOld Fart Tree said:
From 2005: Then Jeter took the opportunity to stand up for Giambi, who was booed so loudly after he struck out in the eighth inning it was hard to hear public address announced Bob Sheppard announce the next hitter. Jeter implored Yankees fans to stop booing Giambi.
"The fans have to start cheering for him," Jeter said. "If you're a Yankee fan, you want us to win and we need Jason ."
One more time: 2006, re: ARod:
"I said the only thing I wasn't going to do was tell the fans who they should boo and who they shouldn't boo."
And 2005, in re: Giambi:
Jeter implored Yankees fans to stop booing Giambi. "The fans have to start cheering for him," Jeter said. "If you're a Yankee fan, you want us to win and we need Jason ."
He was just ahead of his time in hating A-Rod (as was I, I hated him in Texas through 2008, then moved to tolerating him at the start of 2009), plenty of things to give Captain Calm Eyes a hard time about but not sure that's near the top of the list.
Let's not get ridiculous.Rovin Romine said:
I was thinking UN Envoy. Special Representative to the Secretary General for Baseball Activities. A real ambassador for the game and all.
While the Supreme Court could certainly benefit from his calm eyes and innate sense of justice, he's never tainted himself with law school or anything like that. Besides, SCOTUS would be too limiting for someone of his immense talents. Only an international stage would be big enough.