This is the best Red Sox team...ever.

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This brings up an interesting point, one that is taken into account in football rankings on various levels. After a certain point, even though baseball is significantly different in this regard than football, the run differential should be capped. Let's say 8 runs, since after that point there tends to be significant lineup/pitching changes (or in the case of pitching - lack of changes) from both teams. I am not sure that would significantly change relative run differential, but I believe it would certainly make sense to have a cap when we look at run differential.
FWIW, it's not completely clear this is the correct way of addressing the issue in football.

Part of the problem here is that, statistically speaking, some studies show that curb stomping weak opponents is actually a very strong indication of team quality, even greater than beating quality opponents. Basically, close games ride on a few coinflips, but good teams more reliably thump weaker opponents, so you're getting a different sort of information.
 

bsj

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Completely random, but it continues to fascinate me that over the last 7 seasons or so, every single season this team has either won the division or been a complete disaster. There have been NO near misses.
 

Al Zarilla

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Maybe I can figure out how to get some Popeye’s delivered to the Yankees clubhouse.
And Chipotle the next day to make sure. Ah, more satisfying beating them fair and square.

Edit, half asleep still, from a Rays point of view, drastic measures needed. Popeye’s and Chipotle away!
 

tonyarmasjr

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On the field perhaps. But they're missing a personality like in 95 (Mo), 99 (Pedro), 04 (Manny, Millar, Pedro), 07 (Ortiz, Manny), or 13 (Ortiz, Gomes)
Contrary to popular belief, Dustin Pedroia is still part of this team, too (aside from others' suggestions). He's a larger persona than Mo, Millar, or Gomes, for sure. You'd be hard-pressed to match Ortiz and Pedro in stature and persona. Off the top of my head I only come up with Junior, Reggie, and Rickey over the last 30 years or so.
 

AB in DC

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Completely random, but it continues to fascinate me that over the last 7 seasons or so, every single season this team has either won the division or been a complete disaster. There have been NO near misses.
i did enjoy the Torey Lovullo Experience, though.
 

The Red Industry

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Contrary to popular belief, Dustin Pedroia is still part of this team, too (aside from others' suggestions). He's a larger persona than Mo, Millar, or Gomes, for sure. You'd be hard-pressed to match Ortiz and Pedro in stature and persona. Off the top of my head I only come up with Junior, Reggie, and Rickey over the last 30 years or so.
He's had a total of 13 PA's. Sam Travis is more on this team than Pedey, he also had about 150 more points of OBP. I love Pedroia as much as the next guy, and he can have all the personality in the world, but rehabbing a knee in Arizona doesn't get him much cred on this team.
 

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Contrary to popular belief, Dustin Pedroia is still part of this team, too (aside from others' suggestions). He's a larger persona than Mo, Millar, or Gomes, for sure. You'd be hard-pressed to match Ortiz and Pedro in stature and persona. Off the top of my head I only come up with Junior, Reggie, and Rickey over the last 30 years or so.
Lest we forget, there aren't a lot of people on the planet who can be this guy:



And that doesn't have the part where Dustin gets on Papi's case.

He's had a total of 13 PA's. Sam Travis is more on this team than Pedey, he also had about 150 more points of OBP. I love Pedroia as much as the next guy, and he can have all the personality in the world, but rehabbing a knee in Arizona doesn't get him much cred on this team.
True. That said, he texted Cora last night to heckle him.

He could be an amazing boost to an already strong team; I kinda like this potential narratice.
 

tonyarmasjr

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He's had a total of 13 PA's. Sam Travis is more on this team than Pedey, he also had about 150 more points of OBP. I love Pedroia as much as the next guy, and he can have all the personality in the world, but rehabbing a knee in Arizona doesn't get him much cred on this team.
Yeah, I only meant in terms of personality. He's still a part of the 2018 squad.
 

Sam Ray Not

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Completely random, but it continues to fascinate me that over the last 7 seasons or so, every single season this team has either won the division or been a complete disaster. There have been NO near misses.
It is pretty bizarre. Since the re-alignment to five teams in 1994...

1994-2011: 2x first place / 10x second / 4x third / 2x fourth / 0x fifth (= 2x first or last, 16x other)
2012-2018: 4x first place* / 0x second / 0x third / 0x fourth / 3x fifth (= 7x first or last, 0x other)

(* = knock on wood)

We've gone from perennial bridesmaid — an insane eight straight second place finishes from 1998 to 2005 — to boom or bust.

In related news, if we pull out the division we break a tie with Baltimore for total AL East titles (currently: MFY 18, BOS 9, BAL 9, TOR 6, DET 3, TB 2, MIL 1, CLE 0).
 
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grimshaw

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Yeah, I only meant in terms of personality. He's still a part of the 2018 squad.
I don't know. The feisty underdog personality seemed a lot stronger during the first 3-4 years of his career. He's all business in the field and at the plate and not nearly as quotable as he used to be.

It's a bonus if guys have personality to me but it doesn't take much away from my enjoyment if no one is jump-hugging or fist pumping. If guys are into it and psyched to win, that's all I want.
 
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Red(s)HawksFan

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Didn't the entire AL east finish in the same place for like 10 years?
Six seasons. 1998-2003, the standings were Yankees-Red Sox-Blue Jays-Orioles-Devil Rays. In 2004, the Jays and O's switched.

It was eight years in a row (1998-2005) that the AL East had the Yankees and Red Sox as 1-2.
 

The Red Industry

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Lest we forget, there aren't a lot of people on the planet who can be this guy:



And that doesn't have the part where Dustin gets on Papi's case.



True. That said, he texted Cora last night to heckle him.

He could be an amazing boost to an already strong team; I kinda like this potential narratice.
He's about the same size as Pesky, I'm on board.
 

Sam Ray Not

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Also interesting/weird that the current boom-bust trend started in 2012, the year they started better rewarding first place teams and "punishing" wild cards.
 

dwainw

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It is pretty bizarre. Since the re-alignment to five teams in 1994...

1994-2011: 2x first place / 10x second / 4x third / 2x fourth / 0x fifth (= 2x first or last, 16x other)
2012-2018: 4x first place* / 0x second / 0x third / 0x fourth / 3x fifth (= 7x first or last, 0x other)

(* = knock on wood)

We've gone from perennial bridesmaid — an insane eight straight second place finishes from 1998 to 2005 — to boom or bust.

In related news, if we pull out the division we pass Baltimore in total AL East titles (currently: MFY 18, BOS 9, BAL 9, TOR 6, DET 3, TB 2, MIL 1, CLE 0).
In at least of a couple of those recent 5th place finishes, wasn't there much more of a hard pivot toward rebuilding in September, involving a purge and a ton of callups and playing time for the kids? It seemed like once they conceded the post-season in those years, there was a much more concerted effort than in previous decades to start looking toward next season, with a conscious sacrifice of meaningless late-season victories.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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In at least of a couple of those recent 5th place finishes, wasn't there much more of a hard pivot toward rebuilding in September, involving a purge and a ton of callups and playing time for the kids? It seemed like once they conceded the post-season in those years, there was a much more concerted effort than in previous decades to start looking toward next season, with a conscious sacrifice of meaningless late-season victories.
2012 (post-Punto trade) and 2014 (post-Lester/Lackey trades) for sure were such instances. In 2012 they didn't actually fall to last for good until mid-September but in 2014 they were in last well before the trade deadline.

In 2015, they actually played better in August/September under Lovullo...they were just in such a hole that they couldn't climb out of the cellar.
 

Rovin Romine

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Perhaps we can get at the question by asking it this way:

Head to head, in a best of 7 series, do you take the 2004 Sox, or the 2018 Sox?
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Perhaps we can get at the question by asking it this way:

Head to head, in a best of 7 series, do you take the 2004 Sox, or the 2018 Sox?
Assuming full health for everyone (except the guys on the 60-day DL)? Tough call. Probably a better exercise if we wait until the end of the season and pit post-season 25-man rosters against each other.
 

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Perhaps we can get at the question by asking it this way:

Head to head, in a best of 7 series, do you take the 2004 Sox, or the 2018 Sox?
I just learned that I actually do believe in magic in some form, because as soon as I read this I scoffed at the very idea that the 2004 Red Sox could be defeated by mortals wielding conventional tools.

I didn't know this, and now I have to think about it. Because--just as one single example among many--I literally cannot fathom Manny not Being Manny.
 

Rovin Romine

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Assuming full health for everyone (except the guys on the 60-day DL)? Tough call. Probably a better exercise if we wait until the end of the season and pit post-season 25-man rosters against each other.
Yeah, I think a good comparison point is a snapshot of where the team is on the final day, heading into the playoffs. Health (the ability to get through a season and keep playing) matters, if you're talking about GOAT.

Here's a trivia question that's a testament to this amazing season - as of now 4 Sox pitchers have losing W/L records. Can anyone correctly guess them without looking?
 

Adrian's Dome

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I wouldn't. But if I had to, Sale is about the only modern era guy I'd go with not named Kershaw.

I think talent wise, the 2018 squad is better than 2004. Camaraderie-wise, they're close. But 2004 was healthier, and they got really freaking hot at the perfect time. We'll see how it works out for the '18 squad, too much time left to call it right now.
 

tonyarmasjr

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Yeah, I think a good comparison point is a snapshot of where the team is on the final day, heading into the playoffs. Health (the ability to get through a season and keep playing) matters, if you're talking about GOAT.

Here's a trivia question that's a testament to this amazing season - as of now 4 Sox pitchers have losing W/L records. Can anyone correctly guess them without looking?
I know Johnson does from looking at his numbers recently. And Beeks was 0-1. Pomeranz has sucked, though I'm not sure what his record is. And I'd guess Kimbrel, due to lack of opportunity for wins.

Edit: Well, 3 of the 4. Also, is Marcus Walden still alive? This is not an implication of him as the 4th for those still pondering. Or is it?
 
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bosockboy

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2004 wasn’t maybe quite as balanced but more top heavy. I’d take 2004 Schilling against most anyone in a playoff scenario and if my life depended on it I’d take Foulke to save a game over Kimbrel. Timlin/Embree much better set up also. Both teams could crush offensively, but 2004 a bit longer lineup with Tek and Mueller at the bottom of the lineup to turn it over more often.
 

Lose Remerswaal

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Yeah, I think a good comparison point is a snapshot of where the team is on the final day, heading into the playoffs. Health (the ability to get through a season and keep playing) matters, if you're talking about GOAT.

Here's a trivia question that's a testament to this amazing season - as of now 4 Sox pitchers have losing W/L records. Can anyone correctly guess them without looking?
I know Pomeranz has to be one. Beyond that I'd guess a bullpen guy who can rarely get a win, like Kimbrell, might be 0-1. Beeks for sure. Cuevas? Haley? I know that's 5 guesses but no one else is playing
 

grimshaw

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2004 wasn’t maybe quite as balanced but more top heavy. I’d take 2004 Schilling against most anyone in a playoff scenario and if my life depended on it I’d take Foulke to save a game over Kimbrel. Timlin/Embree much better set up also. Both teams could crush offensively, but 2004 a bit longer lineup with Tek and Mueller at the bottom of the lineup to turn it over more often.
I would argue the other way around. Aside from Betts and JDM (who have been objectively better players this season than Ortiz and Manny), most of the rest of the 2004 lineup beats out this one.

Pitching depth wise it's really close. I'm not sure which staff I'd take.
 

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2004 wasn’t maybe quite as balanced but more top heavy. I’d take 2004 Schilling against most anyone in a playoff scenario and if my life depended on it I’d take Foulke to save a game over Kimbrel. Timlin/Embree much better set up also. Both teams could crush offensively, but 2004 a bit longer lineup with Tek and Mueller at the bottom of the lineup to turn it over more often.
Yep agreed
 

Cesar Crespo

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I would argue the other way around. Aside from Betts and JDM (who have been objectively better players this season than Ortiz and Manny), most of the rest of the 2004 lineup beats out this one.

Pitching depth wise it's really close. I'm not sure which staff I'd take.

Ben10 and Bogaerts are better than anyone not named Ortiz or Manny. The 2004 lineup was deeper but the 2018 lineup is more top heavy.
 

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The Chris Sale thread may be on its way to mooting this thread entirely.
 

DJnVa

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The Chris Sale thread may be on its way to mooting this thread entirely.
Eh, perhaps because they've already won first 3 against NY? Just push him back a few days, and it allows him to miss start in NL park.
 

Rasputin

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If the Yankees are going to beat the Sox for the division, they have to win 12 more games than the Sox do and they only have 52 games to do it in.

That's gonna be hard. The Red Sox have 49 games left.

If the Sox go 25-24, the Yanks need to go 37-15 a 115 win pace.

It's entirely possible--maybe even likely--that the Sox win their 80th game before the Yankees win their 70th.
 

uncannymanny

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The Red Sox have the largest division lead in baseball, despite the 2nd place team having the 3rd best winning percentage in baseball.
 

Hank Scorpio

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The Red Sox have a bigger lead over the Yankees than the leaders of the AL West, NL East, NL Central, and NL West have over their 2nd place teams, combined.

The Yankees are further behind the Red Sox than the Twins are behind the Indians.
 

Spacemans Bong

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Agree with this. From the time of the Cabrera/Mientkiewicz deal through the World Series that team was not only an all-time Red Sox team but one of the great teams of my lifetime, period. Those figures cited above are a 120 win pace.
They wouldn't have won 120 over the whole season, but once they got Cabrera to stabilize shortstop and Nixon got healthy (people forget Trot missed six weeks in July/August), they were a team with zero easy outs. Not one.

2004 season OBPs for the postseason lineup (Damon, Bellhorn, Manny, Ortiz, Nixon, Millar, Varitek, Mueller, Cabrera): .380, .373, .397, .377, .383, .390, .365, .320. Every one at least 25 points above the league average in OBP except for Cabrera, and Cabrera had some pop that year.

The Cardinals won 105 games that year and were 2nd in the NL in ERA, and the Red Sox just destroyed them more than any team has destroyed the competition in World Series history. I think they swung and missed 16 times in four games. Amazing.

If the O-Cab/Nixon 2004 Red Sox count as its own team, that's easily the best team in Red Sox history IMO.
 

Devizier

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I know Bogaerts made a rough error last night but the Red Sox defense is really pretty solid. Comparing that to all the miscues and errors that cost the Yankees last night (and nights prior) really was striking.
 

Rovin Romine

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I know Johnson does from looking at his numbers recently. And Beeks was 0-1. Pomeranz has sucked, though I'm not sure what his record is. And I'd guess Kimbrel, due to lack of opportunity for wins.

Edit: Well, 3 of the 4. Also, is Marcus Walden still alive? This is not an implication of him as the 4th for those still pondering. Or is it?
I know Pomeranz has to be one. Beyond that I'd guess a bullpen guy who can rarely get a win, like Kimbrell, might be 0-1. Beeks for sure. Cuevas? Haley? I know that's 5 guesses but no one else is playing
Robby Scott is one, maybe Brian Johnson.
Pom 1-5
Johnson 2-3
Beeks 0-1
Scott 0-1

Group win there. I still think that's amazing.

***
Watching the potential 20 game winners is also fun. You'd think we'd have 1-2 guys on track, but Porcello only has 14 wins, and the rest are at 11.

Which is another trivia question, but one I don't know the answer to - "What was the last 100 win team to have a 20 game winner?" and "How many 100 win teams have there been since then without a 20 game winner on the staff?"
 

tims4wins

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Pom 1-5
Johnson 2-3
Beeks 0-1
Scott 0-1

Group win there. I still think that's amazing.

***
Watching the potential 20 game winners is also fun. You'd think we'd have 1-2 guys on track, but Porcello only has 14 wins, and the rest are at 11.

Which is another trivia question, but one I don't know the answer to - "What was the last 100 win team to have a 20 game winner?" and "How many 100 win teams have there been since then without a 20 game winner on the staff?"
So those 4 guys have a record of 3-10. The rest of the staff is... 76-24. I mean, wow.
 

moondog80

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The Sox are 1st in MLB in runs scored and 2nd in runs allowed.

Of course, the Astros are 2nd in runs scored and 1st in runs allowed. And the Yanks are 3rd in both. Crazy.
 

Savin Hillbilly

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The wrong side of the bridge....
I know Bogaerts made a rough error last night but the Red Sox defense is really pretty solid.
And the error was really not at all characteristic of Xander's game. He has mediocre range, but he's usually very solid on the balls he gets to. In fact, according to FG, that was the first non-throwing error he's made all year.

Which is another trivia question, but one I don't know the answer to - "What was the last 100 win team to have a 20 game winner?" and "How many 100 win teams have there been since then without a 20 game winner on the staff?"
1. St Louis Cardinals 2005, Chris Carpenter, 21
2. 8
 

JMDurron

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The most amazing part of this year's team to me is their ability to keep on rolling with so many injuries. At one point in this series, the Red Sox lineup was without 55% of its starting position players (Pedroia -> Kinsler, Devers -> Nunez, Moreland -> Pearce, Bogaerts -> Holt, Vazquez/Leon -> Swihart), and it scored 15 runs in that game. Despite 40% of the starting rotation being on the disabled list, it just swept the 3rd best team in baseball. Have any of these favorite teams of ours from the past shown this kind of elite performance without at least above-average injury luck?

On the field perhaps. But they're missing a personality like in 95 (Mo), 99 (Pedro), 04 (Manny, Millar, Pedro), 07 (Ortiz, Manny), or 13 (Ortiz, Gomes)
I don't know how someone can watch these games and not give Mookie Betts credit for being such a personality. His on-field joy flat out dominates my screen when he is out there. Since last season, the entire Alpha Defense Outfield has seemed to have its own joyous personality that I have enjoyed, it reminds me of the Damon-Manny days, except with better actual defensive players in both positions.

There's plenty of personality on this team. Mookie is as close to the magnetic personality that Pedro or Ortiz was that we'll ever see. BROCKHOLT! is the dugout jokester who is clearly having nearly as much fun as anyone in the game. That's before you get to the token bullpen oddity in Fightin Joe Kelly.

This is the most fun I've had watching a regular season since 2007.
The Brockstar reference makes me think of the Millar-Gomes post-career marketing plan. Being the goofy dugout personality on a good/great Red Sox team while being an good-but-not-great player who has an unknown number of years left has proven to be a good long-term move in the recent past.