The value of being "competitive"

Is there a value to being competitive aka fighting for a third wild card.. skightly above .500

  • Yes, this team has recaptured my interest

    Votes: 46 32.2%
  • Yes, but I don't consider this team competitive

    Votes: 49 34.3%
  • No, however the outlook of the future [2025+] has reengaged me

    Votes: 32 22.4%
  • No, I am playoffs or bust

    Votes: 2 1.4%
  • No, I am pretty tapped out of baseball in general

    Votes: 10 7.0%
  • Yes, however I am tapped out of baseball in general

    Votes: 4 2.8%

  • Total voters
    143

TomRicardo

rusty cohlebone
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Right now the Red Sox are vaguely in the wild card race however they are closer to the bottom of the division again than the playoffs. I was a little shocked at people being upset with Sale being gone because even if he pitched this well, that wouldn't have the Red Sox in statistical spot beyond a better chance to slide into the last spot in the playoffs.

Now I find the Red Sox more interesting now than when they were around here last year because their future prospects are much better but some people finding value in this vaguely above .500 play in on itself?
 

jose melendez

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I'm watching more than I have in quite a while. That's mostly a function of me having more time right now, but there were nothing to feel optimistic about, I'd probably find something else to do. I'd like to have some sense of who these young exciting guys are when the team is good again.

That said, not only is this team not going to reach the playoffs, they're not built for them--they'd get annihilated. My hope is that next year they'll be ready to go out and buy some pitching, because I don't see enough in the pipeline to address the problems.
 

Daniel_Son

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May 25, 2021
2,113
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As much as it pains me to admit, I don't think the team as currently constructed is set up to go deep into the playoffs. I'd be ecstatic if they did, but they just don't have the pitching.

That being said, they're an exciting team with a lot of good young players. Houck, Bello, Crawford Abreu, Duran, Devers, Hamilton, and Rafaela are all a lot of fun to watch, even if they're frustrating at times. I think they'll be a lot better next year.

Now go get some goddamn pitching, Breslow.
 

Brianish

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Dec 11, 2008
5,876
I got excited enough about this team that I bought mlb.tv for the first time since 2012 on July 14th. Duran won the ASG MVP. Then they came back and went 2-7.

My immediate reaction was "Yeah, that makes sense."
 

brs3

sings praises of pinstripes
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May 20, 2008
5,264
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I think we've all seen enough championship teams to know this team is fun to watch, but has big gaps to fill before they can do a deep run into the playoffs. They will need everyone to get hot at the same time to pull it off this year. I have enjoyed watching a lot of the season, but I think it's safe to say they're not competitive in a deep postseason run kind of way.
 

Kliq

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Mar 31, 2013
24,676
Baseball is every day. During the summer the Sox play pretty much every day or night. Sometimes I'm going to not pay attention to the game at all, other times I'll be counting down the hours until first pitch.

The team playing competitive baseball into late-August is a huge boost to my interest in the team. Thanks to some really strong performances by younger players, the team feels way more exciting and vibrant than at the start of the season. The wheels have fallen off a bit lately, but staying in the hunt this late has kept my interest and made being a fan of the Red Sox a far more enjoyable experience than if they were just doomed to losing 90+ games.
 

Trapaholic

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Jan 11, 2023
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The pitching situation has been incredibly frustrating. Having Seth Lugo or Jack Flaherty on this team would have made a tangible difference. Flaherty was 1 year x $14mill and Lugo was $15mill x 3 years. You either pay veterans for short (1-3 year) deals, or acquire/develop young pitchers and possibly buy out their arb years. There is just no way around spending actual money on starters. What they did with Bello was a solid move in my opinion. Until they show that they will pony up for MULTIPLE major league caliber pitchers, I am not sure what will change on the field.

What's more, every high upside pitching prospect is years away. Guys like Fitts and Sandlin could slide in to the big league roster next year. Personally, I would want to see those guys go up and down over the season and see if either of them can stick. The "depth" type of guys should be up-and-coming prospects, not also rans like Kyle Barraclough and Brad Keller.

I am going to watch no matter what. It kills me to watch these huge games with their backs against the wall, and a less than MLB caliber pitcher trots out of the bullpen in a huge spot. A team with the Red Sox resources should never allow this to happen, yet here we are again.
 

Trlicek's Whip

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Feb 8, 2009
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Everyone hates to hear "competitive bridge" but 2024 seems to be a much improved (and more widely accepted) example of that model than Chaim's attempts at it. Even with the pitfalls and surprises (Casas and Story being non-entities, Grissom being a non-factor, the pitching starting strong but fading late etc.)

Like them or not time passed and the minor league talent's that much closer to seeing Fenway. (Though as someone who gets to a couple of Woosox games a year I hope the AAA product in 2025 will be less mind-numbingly and fungibly boring than this year's).
 

Brohamer of the Gods

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Jul 14, 2005
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I would say yes there is some value, but only because it is more fun to watch a team win than lose. In particular, there have been times in recent years where I might come in on a game in say the 3rd inning, see they were down 3-0 and not bother watching any more that night because I didn't have hope in it being at least a competitive game.

As for value to the team itself and not the fans, beyond some vague winning attitude being a plus, to me it is more the notion of them fielding a team that is competitive/MLB caliber across the field. There have been times in recent years where Boston has had so many people playing out of position it has been tough to tell if prospects were actually developing.
 

mjs

New Member
Mar 30, 2020
48
I chose the first option. Following last year's sub-500 yucky season and the dull off-season, this team has performed better than I had hoped, which has kept me engaged. It's always more fun when the team you root for wins. Plus, the core of the team is young and exciting to watch. Next year could be even more fun if they can add some talent to the top of the starting rotation.
 

gammoseditor

also had a stroke
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Jul 17, 2005
4,685
Somerville, MA
I voted for the top option. This season was a clear step in the right direction to be competitive long term. If their best players were free agents they were likely to lose I would not feel the same way. Obviously pitching is a problem, but with the offensive depth they have built they should have the resources to address it.
 

Archer1979

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Jul 18, 2005
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The Sox have had a buzz saw of a schedule lately. Coupled with being "streaky" team isn't playing to their strengths right now. KC, on the other hand, is about to hit a tough stretch schedule-wise, but they might overtake a swooning Guardians team for the AL Central lead but they have no easy games until 9/13.

Cleveland and Minnesota could also be factors as they aren't exactly setting the league on fire.

That said, yes. The Sox are interesting. I've been tuning in as much as I can which is a far cry better than the last couple of years around this time.
 

donutogre

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Jul 20, 2005
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I chose the first option. Following last year's sub-500 yucky season and the dull off-season, this team has performed better than I had hoped, which has kept me engaged. It's always more fun when the team you root for wins. Plus, the core of the team is young and exciting to watch. Next year could be even more fun if they can add some talent to the top of the starting rotation.
I get that... but, we're headed to literally the same season again. The Sox are actually worse this year than they were last year through the same number of games, I think?
 

jasail

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Apr 23, 2010
1,233
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This team arrived earlier than I thought they would and showed some moxie for a good chunk of the season. Then they faded down the stretch with is totally consistent with what we would expect from a young team with a young staff. I don't have much interest in them being in the playoff hunt this year because I don't think they have the stamina to get there, let alone make any noise. All things considered though, I'm happy with how this season turned out and I think it's a good (re)building block.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I get that... but, we're headed to literally the same season again. The Sox are actually worse this year than they were last year through the same number of games, I think?
They are two games worse through 131 games played, but that is no guarantee that they'll finish worse than last year's team. Pace is not a great comparison year to year when they play different schedules.
 

In my lifetime

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The primary mistake the front office has made in the past few years is deluding themselves at the trade deadline that the team should be a very fringe buyer instead of sellers. Personally, I'd rather tank then have a .500 team and load up on prospects for expiring contracts (1 and 2-year deals). It can be tough to watch the rest of such a season, but stocking up young talent on top of their already impressive restock would have made for a very exciting 5-6 year run. I believe the Red Sox are still on their way, but a few more pieces would have helped.
 

TrotNixonRing

Sally Field
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Jul 28, 2023
1,253
I get that... but, we're headed to literally the same season again. The Sox are actually worse this year than they were last year through the same number of games, I think?
If they can’t contend for a title, win totals mean little to me except if they are just totally non competitive. I appreciate that yours and others MMV.

they have the pieces lined up for next year. I think Anthony is Special and will be able to contribute right away in ‘25. If they don’t spend this winter, shame on them and I’ll become quite jaded. But I think they will spend and next year’s team will be able to contend for a title.
 

TrotNixonRing

Sally Field
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Jul 28, 2023
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The primary mistake the front office has made in the past few years is deluding themselves at the trade deadline that the team should be a very fringe buyer instead of sellers. Personally, I'd rather tank then have a .500 team and load up on prospects for expiring contracts (1 and 2-year deals). It can be tough to watch the rest of such a season, but stocking up young talent on top of their already impressive restock would have made for a very exciting 5-6 year run. I believe the Red Sox are still on their way, but a few more pieces would have helped.
I don’t disagree but this board and RSN would have bought pitchforks if they sold at the deadline. Ownership does need to consider public sentiment a little bit right? Not too much — the expression is when you start reacting to the public soon enough you will be part of them — but a little and also to send a message to players that we won’t sell on a team in the thick of it.
 

8slim

has trust issues
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Nov 6, 2001
29,002
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Yes. Who wouldn’t prefer to watch a team compete for a playoff spot?

In fairness, after the sweep yesterday I’ve lost much of the interest I’ve had since the start of the season. They’re essentially out of it now.

Once upon a time (like 2015) I’d have some interest in watching the younger guys develop on a losing team. But that time has largely passed for me. There’s too many other things to engage with, sports and otherwise, than to watch crummy baseball and hope a couple of the dudes playing might be good in some future season.
 

LynnRice75

a real Homer for the Sox
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Jul 15, 2005
7,593
Oviedo, FL
I am a die-hard fan who watches every inning of every game. It is very depressing to be in this position again - seeing early-season optimism disappear with the second-half swoon as we lose game after game through lackluster play. I tune in each night to see if we regain a spark and start a win streak gets us back in the race. Just getting into the playoffs allows for the possibility of some magic, so I hope for it. Most nights, at game's end, I feel gloomy yet I tune in again nonetheless.
 

mauidano

Mai Tais for everyone!
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Aug 21, 2006
37,419
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I am always in until mathematically eliminated.

Every team has bad breaks and gambles on players/trades that don't pay off. The Giolito and Story injuries were a kick in the nuts and the Sale/Grissom trade was a disaster to name a few.

I passed on the nightcap of the doubleheader yesterday and watched the Indiana Fever WNBA Game. It was significantly more exciting.

I'm not holding my breath and less than optimistic but play on.
 

lexrageorge

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Jul 31, 2007
20,604
The team kept my interest much more than either of the prior 2 seasons. I never felt either the 2022 or 2023 teams would make the playoffs; I did honestly believe this one would. At the very least, I would love for this team to go on a brief win streak, beat up on the Twins in September and make the stretch drive fun. If not, then at least 3 out of 4 from the Yankees.

Just need to hope that the ownership and management takes a different approach this offseason.
 

Tony Pena's Gas Cloud

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Jun 12, 2019
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The pitching situation has been incredibly frustrating. Having Seth Lugo or Jack Flaherty on this team would have made a tangible difference. Flaherty was 1 year x $14mill and Lugo was $15mill x 3 years. You either pay veterans for short (1-3 year) deals, or acquire/develop young pitchers and possibly buy out their arb years. There is just no way around spending actual money on starters. What they did with Bello was a solid move in my opinion. Until they show that they will pony up for MULTIPLE major league caliber pitchers, I am not sure what will change on the field.

What's more, every high upside pitching prospect is years away. Guys like Fitts and Sandlin could slide in to the big league roster next year. Personally, I would want to see those guys go up and down over the season and see if either of them can stick. The "depth" type of guys should be up-and-coming prospects, not also rans like Kyle Barraclough and Brad Keller.

I am going to watch no matter what. It kills me to watch these huge games with their backs against the wall, and a less than MLB caliber pitcher trots out of the bullpen in a huge spot. A team with the Red Sox resources should never allow this to happen, yet here we are again.
Maybe off topic, but it's been pointed out elsewhere that Lugo's numbers have been massively pumped by fattening up against the historically bad White Sox and the Tigers, who are pretty awful outside of their 9-1 record against said White Sox. Move him into the AL East and you have Jeff Suppan - 30 league average, inning eater starts where he feasts on the scrubs. While there's a lot of value in that on the right team, I'm not convinced he'd be the difference in this team or future teams making the playoffs.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Maybe off topic, but it's been pointed out elsewhere that Lugo's numbers have been massively pumped by fattening up against the historically bad White Sox and the Tigers, who are pretty awful outside of their 9-1 record against said White Sox. Move him into the AL East and you have Jeff Suppan - 30 league average, inning eater starts where he feasts on the scrubs. While there's a lot of value in that on the right team, I'm not convinced he'd be the difference in this team or future teams making the playoffs.
I get what you are saying and Lugo is 3-0 against the historically bad ChiSox, but the Tigers have scored more runs than the Rays and Jays, so not sure they fit here.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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Mar 11, 2007
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I get what you are saying and Lugo is 3-0 against the historically bad ChiSox, but the Tigers have scored more runs than the Rays and Jays, so not sure they fit here.
I think it's pretty hard to spin a world in which the addition of Lugo as a starter to the '24 version of the Red Sox isn't at least 4 games better than they are now. Maybe he's personally only 2 games better than the bullpen games.... but also saves those innings from being thrown by tired bullpen arms. I believe 100% that he'd be a difference maker this season, and I wasn't in favor of adding him......
 

joe dokes

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Jul 18, 2005
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I'll answer the question posed instead of dragging my own personal pet gripe into every fucking thread.

Of course there is value to me in the team being competitive. And this team is competitive. (4 games out of a playoff spot with 30 to play *seems* competitive to me).
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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I'll answer the question posed instead of dragging my own personal pet gripe into every fucking thread.

Of course there is value to me in the team being competitive. And this team is competitive. (4 games out of a playoff spot with 30 to play *seems* competitive to me).
Is the question for us the fans or to ownership? Clearly... Henry or whoever saw that just being "competitive" (which they were the last two seasons even if you felt it was an illusion, they were "in it" up until the trade deadline, being "just competitive" provides a ton of value, and I suspect more profit than spending a ton of money on Ohtanis, Betts, Sotos, etc
I could care how they spend it. I have no rights as a fan. I just WANT them to win. Emulate the Rays, the Dodgers, the Padres... I could care.
 

joe dokes

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Jul 18, 2005
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Is the question for us the fans or to ownership? Clearly... Henry or whoever saw that just being "competitive" (which they were the last two seasons even if you felt it was an illusion, they were "in it" up until the trade deadline, being "just competitive" provides a ton of value, and I suspect more profit than spending a ton of money on Ohtanis, Betts, Sotos, etc
I could care how they spend it. I have no rights as a fan. I just WANT them to win. Emulate the Rays, the Dodgers, the Padres... I could care.
Considering that every option in the poll has "I" or "me" in it, and that it is extremely unlikely that John Henry authored the poll and is asking the questions of himself, I think the answer to your initial question is self-evident.
Maybe we need a different poll to assess ownership's "real" motivation because no one ever talks about that.
 

azsoxpatsfan

Does not enjoy the go
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May 23, 2014
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4 games out of the playoffs in late August and people are acting like the season is over? Do we not remember 2011? Winning is always more fun than losing. The beautiful thing about baseball (as evidenced last season with the DBacks) is that any team can go deep into the postseason if they can just manage to get it. It’s been a fun season to watch, we’re playing important, meaningful games into September, and there’s still a tangible chance we make the playoffs. We have extremely exciting young talent and no one anticipated this years team being particularly great. I voted for option one, with the caveat that I was always interested, my interest was upped this year but not recaptured
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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Considering that every option in the poll has "I" or "me" in it, and that it is extremely unlikely that John Henry authored the poll and is asking the questions of himself, I think the answer to your initial question is self-evident.
Maybe we need a different poll to assess ownership's "real" motivation because no one ever talks about that.
Maybe I’m misunderstanding your response as kinda dickish…. But I don’t think that that is clear if “I” the fan think the question is put towards me and my sense of how a mediocre Sox team can make me feel connected and excited (value to me as engaged observer) or the value to a larger and profitable audience. The question and its options of responses could be either.
 

joe dokes

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Jul 18, 2005
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Maybe I’m misunderstanding your response as kinda dickish…. But I don’t think that that is clear if “I” the fan think the question is put towards me and my sense of how a mediocre Sox team can make me feel connected and excited (value to me as engaged observer) or the value to a larger and profitable audience. The question and its options of responses could be either.
Dickish intended. I can't conceive how the "I" or "me" is in any way ambiguous. It's asking how you feel about being competitive today. It seems to me that bending the meaning of the question is just looking for ways to stick your dissatisfaction with ownership in any place even remotely possible. Maybe they are mediocre. Maybe they are, in fact, the suckiest sucks who ever sucked. Maybe Henry is laughing like Snidely Whiplash at every sucker that passes through the turnstiles. But they are 4 games out of a playoff spot. I'm sorry that it doesn't interest you because it's also enabling John Henry to buy hookers and blow instead of relief pitchers.

It's getting cool outside,. The games matter by any reasonable definition of "matter."