The Ultimate Fighting Championship (MMA) Thread

[Bongorific]

To follow-up on 2 of Jnai's comments, the older UFC's were fun to watch when the Gracie clan totally dominated. Other fighters had no idea how to counter Jiu Jitsu submission holds. The fighting styles are much different now because every UFC contender is multi-disciplined. Some still have certain strengths; some being better strikers, some wrestlers, some submission holds, etc., but they all train in the same gyms or camps. Even fighters with a boxing or kickboxing background learn submission holds and counters or else they wouldn't have a chance.

On the beard, most UFC/Pride fighters don't have facial hair or long hair because I think it can be pulled. There are rules against hair pulling, but I'm not sure if it includes facial hair. All fighters are required to wear shorts, gloves, and no shoes or top now. Some fighters use to wear a gi, but opponents would grab onto it, so UFC instated a uniform policy.

 

[JohnMal]

A pretty quick stoppage in the Kimbo fight. I am thinking CBS didn't want a lot of blood on TV.

 

[j44thor]

A pretty quick stoppage in the Kimbo fight. I am thinking CBS didn't want a lot of blood on TV.

Thompson shouldn't have been allowed to enter the ring with his ear like that.
I don't know much about cauliflower ears so maybe someone can correct me but couldn't it have been drained down a bit pre-fight?
It appeared to be Kimbo's out if you will since he only started targeting it when he was near the end and for some reason couldn't knock out the glass jawed Thompson.

Also as disgusting to look at as it was (actually made me a bit quesy which is pretty hard to do) was he in any real danger if he cotinued fighting?

 

[tulse_luper]

I'm a long time MMA fan and was absolutely delighted when the sport started to blow up Stateside, but I was more than a little uneasy at the idea that Kimbo vs Thompson was going to be the first main event on network tv. Unfortunately that card pretty much confirmed every one of the fears I had beforehand. What a circus.

The (American) Unified Rules do include a clause that fighters must be clean shaven except for a small moustache btw, but obviously they don't seem to enforce that one very strongly. It's a little ironic in fact, since the unified rules were drawn up by the New Jersey Athletic Control Board, and of course the fight on Satuday was in Newark.

It's also those rules (rather than the UFC specifically) that forbid the wearing of gis, shoes, etc in regulated events in the US. You still see some people in Japan etc who fight in BJJ or Judo gis, and of course there's Aoki with his fancy spandex leggings that wouldn't be permitted in the US either...

 

[Vinho Tinto]

Did anyone pay for last night's tape delayed PPV? I'll download the main event later. Dave Metzler described Thiago Alves as appearing over 190, and that he had a clear strength advantage on Hughes. Hughes is 35 (36 in Oct),has lost 3 of his last 4 fights (But they were to top guys in Alves and GSP), and has previously hinted at retirement. Will be interesting to see if he signs up for another fight.

 

[inter tatters]

Did anyone pay for last night's tape delayed PPV? I'll download the main event later. Dave Metzler described Thiago Alves as appearing over 190, and that he had a clear strength advantage on Hughes. Hughes is 35 (36 in Oct),has lost 3 of his last 4 fights (But they were to top guys in Alves and GSP), and has previously hinted at retirement. Will be interesting to see if he signs up for another fight.

We got the whole card live on a major sports channel over here in the UK for the 1st time. Alves was at least 10lbs heavier than Hughes and, even when Hughes got Alves on the mat, he didn't appear to have the strength to shift the big guy into position for one of his trademark submissions. The KO, when it came, was one of the most spectular flying knee strikes you will ever see. Credit to Hughes for agreeing to the bout at the catchweight. The Card had already lost it's main event and losing the replacement top feature would've been really bad for UFC.

As for the other fights, Michael Bisping obliterated Jason Day from the start and was quite simply awesome. Easily his best performance in UFC.
Marcus Davis had his 11-fight winning streak snapped by Mike Swick, who just kept out of Davis' bomb range and thoroughly frustrated him by taking him down and neutralising him. Boring fight, but do you think Swick cares?
The fight of the night was the Thales Leites - Nate Marquardt bout, which was also the most controversial. It was an back and forth battle that Nate looked to have taken until Ref Herb Dean deducted him a point for an hitting to the back of the head, that were, without doubt, on the side of the head. Even the commentators were baffled by Dean's decision. That meant that Leites stole the bout on a split decision, with the deducted point being the difference on 2 scorecards. Shame really, as it was a brilliant fight and Marquardt was clearly disgusted by Dean's call and made sure everyone knew about it in the post-match interview.

Ref Dan Miragliotta had another night to forget, following the Kimbo Slice debacle last week - This time he stopped a clearly unhurt Brandon Vera with only 10secs left in the 1st round. Vera jumped straight up and chased Miragliotta from the cage and, initially, refused to get into the post fight hand raising ceremony with him! Yes, Fabricio Werdum had full mount position and was pounding away, but Vera was defending himself and none were really connecting cleanly. Miragliotta should be ashamed of his work the last 2 weeks.

All-in-all a great card with some fantastic undercard bouts - including Matt Wiman's enormous right-hand that knocked Thiago Tavares senseless on contact and
Dane Martin Kampman's beautiful transition to a guillotine to see off Jorge Rivera.

 

[WakefieldKnuckler]

For those that do not know, ESPN produces a weekly half hour video feature each Thursday on ESPN.com called "MMA Live".

This week's episode features a pretty good interview with Dana White. It really is a quality program that SHOULD be on at least ESPN2 at some point in the near future.

Just a heads up

 

[sachmoney]

For those that do not know, ESPN produces a weekly half hour video feature each Thursday on ESPN.com called "MMA Live".

This week's episode features a pretty good interview with Dana White. It really is a quality program that SHOULD be on at least ESPN2 at some point in the near future.

Just a heads up

If Dana was on the show, I take it that the show is not done by sherdog (who do the ESPN webpage). Interesting.

I'm not a fan of Kimbo being the main guy for the sport on national television. It's a bummer that the UFC didn't get national television coverage.

 

[therondc]

Did anyone watch The Ultimate Fighter finale Saturday night? The championship fight wasn't all that exciting; just a compressed version of the first time those two guys fought. The main event between Tanner and Kendall Grove was really entertaining. Tanner can take a beating. He also has a larger beard than Kimbo.

 

[burstnbloom]

Did anyone watch The Ultimate Fighter finale Saturday night? The championship fight wasn't all that exciting; just a compressed version of the first time those two guys fought. The main event between Tanner and Kendall Grove was really entertaining. Tanner can take a beating. He also has a larger beard than Kimbo.

I did watch. I rooted for Amir from day one but never thought he would win. The kid can take a beating and he is tough as nails. I enjoyed most of the fights that night. I think Riddle has a chance to be a real nice fighter and Kendall Grove certainly seemed like he has his shit back together. It was a pretty good event considering it was free.

 

[sachmoney]

Did anyone watch The Ultimate Fighter finale Saturday night? The championship fight wasn't all that exciting; just a compressed version of the first time those two guys fought. The main event between Tanner and Kendall Grove was really entertaining. Tanner can take a beating. He also has a larger beard than Kimbo.

I watched. I was rooting for Tanner and I was really disappointed. It really looks like he has nothing left, and spending time off from the sport has not helped him at all. He's one of my favorite fighters, and he's had a great career, but he had nothing in that fight. Kendall showed why he can be impressive, but he didn't finish the fight. It was ridiculous because he had plenty of opportunities.

I did watch. I rooted for Amir from day one but never thought he would win. The kid can take a beating and he is tough as nails. I enjoyed most of the fights that night. I think Riddle has a chance to be a real nice fighter and Kendall Grove certainly seemed like he has his shit back together. It was a pretty good event considering it was free.

Of all the guys from the show, Riddle definitely looked impressive and looked like he improved a lot. However, he doesn't really have explosiveness to get the double leg and that worries me (for him). On the show, Riddle made a name for himself with that knockout, but no one really saw his wrestling. He looked a lot stronger and even bigger. Definitely impressive.

I was definitely rooting for Amir. I love his sense of humor and I love his heart. He showed both, and while there was seemingly some controversy over whether CB tapped, Amir won it. I think Amir has a lot of potential just because he has shown a willingness to learn and listen to his instructors. CB has a lot of potential too with his wrestling, but he seems like a generation 1 fighter. He has overrated striking, and his submission defense has been proven to not be very good.

It's a bummer that Jesse couldn't be in a final. What he did warranted him getting kicked off the show though.

 

[sachmoney]

RUMORED FOR UFC 88

This is alongside Chuck vs Rashad


Dan Henderson vs Rousimar Palhares

If you don't remember, Palhares is the guy who destroyed Ivan Salaverry in what was supposed to be Salaverry's last hurrah. That arm bar was so impressive, and now Palhares gets a chance at the former PRIDE Welterweight and Middleweight Champion Dan Henderson. We all remember Henderson getting edged by Rampage in what I consider the most exciting fight of last year, and then earlier this year going down to UFC Middleweight Champion Anderson Silva. I love Henderson's fighting, but Palhares's jiu jitsu is incredible. He fights out of Brazilian Top Team. However, he has never faced an opponent as strong as Dan Henderson. It will be an interesting fight to say the least.

 

[JohnMal]

Anyone watch last night?
I thought Rampage vs Griffin should have been a draw.

 

[tulse_luper]

It was extremely close. I haven't had a chance to re-watch it, but on first viewing it seemed like one of those fights where I'd find it hard to argue with a decision one way or the other.

How would you have scored it to end up with a draw?

 

[JohnMal]

It was extremely close. I haven't had a chance to re-watch it, but on first viewing it seemed like one of those fights where I'd find it hard to argue with a decision one way or the other.

How would you have scored it to end up with a draw?

1 -10-9 Rampage
2- 10-8 Forrest
3- 10-9 Forrest
4- 10-9 Rampage
5- 10-9 Rampage (I admit I am giving the even round to the champ.)

This is off of one watching.
I am not appalled by the decision. I think Forrest did a great job on Rampage's legs and kept himself busy, but Rampage landed much harder shots, more often.

 

[WakefieldKnuckler]

I just rewatched the fight on www.mmascraps.com (great website with many classic matches on it), and I thought it was one of the closest fights that I have ever seen. In fact, I think it was so close that Jackson should get an automatic rematch vs Forrest for the title in 3-4 months.

I thought that one of the things that Rampage said in his post fight interview with Rogan was very telling. By no means did he use this as an excuse for the loss, but he says...

I'm never taking 9 months off again

It is the same time period that Griffin took off as well and I know that both were busy in the mean time with the seventh season of the Ultimate Fighter. It must still be difficult to maintain focus for that long.

Anybody else think that is much too long of a break for a fighter (unless he obviously is seriously injured)?

 

[Chainsaw318]

I regret no having been able to see this, and I will watch it online shortly. I did want to chime in, however, that I was really impressed by both guys in their coaching stints and the way in which they dealt with each other. No legitimate dislike, they seemed to respect each other, so they had fun. I was a big Lidell guy, so it's been hard to like Rampage, but he's a great fighter, and an absurd interview.

I'm pissed that my buddies and I can't get together for the next 2-3 MMA cards, and they are all sick. The next PPV, August 9th, with St-Pierre vs. Fitch for the title, should be a terrific fight, but amazingly, the undercard of MA's own Kenny Florian and Roger Huerta may be even better.

 

[sachmoney]

Ok, I had a long response about the Rampage-Griffin fight, but it got deleted as I tried to post it. Anyway, I scored the fight 48-46 Rampage, but I think it could have been scored 49-46 Rampage to 50-44 Forrest, depending on how you saw things and how you viewed the fight. It's about how you quantify different offensives and how you weigh control, aggression, and damage. I thought for the most part, that Forrest was being more aggressive, and had more control, but Rampage had his share of both and definitely was doing damage with the punches. You change your weights, and certainly you would come to a different conclusion.

I want a rematch. I'm not unhappy with Forrest being the champ, but I am unhappy that Rampage is no longer the champ.

 

[JohnMal]

Ok, I had a long response about the Rampage-Griffin fight, but it got deleted as I tried to post it. Anyway, I scored the fight 48-46 Rampage, but I think it could have been scored 49-46 Rampage to 50-44 Forrest, depending on how you saw things and how you viewed the fight. It's about how you quantify different offensives and how you weigh control, aggression, and damage. I thought for the most part, that Forrest was being more aggressive, and had more control, but Rampage had his share of both and definitely was doing damage with the punches. You change your weights, and certainly you would come to a different conclusion.

I want a rematch. I'm not unhappy with Forrest being the champ, but I am unhappy that Rampage is no longer the champ.

A rematch is a must. I was thinking that half way through round four.
Check out Fight Metric. They have a good breakdown and also scored it dead even.

 

[sachmoney]

A rematch is a must. I was thinking that half way through round four.
Check out Fight Metric. They have a good breakdown and also scored it dead even.

I already do/have. I really love that site, and I think it's a great way to score fights. They scored it even in the ten point must, but gave Rampage the edge. Everyone thought Forrest dominated, and he was more aggressive and everything, but Rampage landed more punches to the head and to the body. Forrest landed more leg kicks. I don't understand the takedowns. Didn't Rampage take Forrest down in the third? Didn't Forrest take Rampage down in the second? I don't understand what that's about.

 

[tulse_luper]

You'd have to think a rematch is on the cards, wouldn't you.

Regardless, there's a bunch of interesting potential fights at 205 now.

Just about any combination of Griffin, W Silva, Shogun, Chuck, Rampage and Machida would be pretty tasty. Add Vera into the mix if he's serious about dropping to 205 full time, and maybe (though it's probably unlikely) Anderson Silva if he deals with Irvin and feels like there's nothing left to make it worth hanging around at 185. Should be an interesting next few months.

 

[sachmoney]

You'd have to think a rematch is on the cards, wouldn't you.

Regardless, there's a bunch of interesting potential fights at 205 now.

Just about any combination of Griffin, W Silva, Shogun, Chuck, Rampage and Machida would be pretty tasty. Add Vera into the mix if he's serious about dropping to 205 full time, and maybe (though it's probably unlikely) Anderson Silva if he deals with Irvin and feels like there's nothing let to make it worth hanging around at 185. Should be an interesting next few months.

Even if Irvin wins, he might get boosted into the top ten as well! He has huge power.

I think the rumor right now, other than an immediate rematch, is that Chuck will fight Rashad for a title shot. Rampage will fight Wanderlei. Machida will fight Thiago Silva. Shogun won't be back until later this year. Vera is fighting on the July 19th card. Sokoudjou is not fighting anyone either.

I think that Rampage should get an immediate rematch because I feel that no other top contender is worthy of a title shot as of yet. Let's take a look at the contenders:

Lyoto Machida 13-0 (5-0 UFC)
Notable Wins: Tito Ortiz, Rameau Theirry Sokoudjou
Has going for him: No one wants to fight him
Lacks: Wins against top five competition (Rampage, Griffin, Shogun, Wanderlei, Chuck)
Needs: Top Five Fight

Chuck Liddell 21-5 (16-4 UFC)
Notable Wins: Tito Ortiz, Randy Couture, Wanderlei Silva
Has going for him: Arguably the most popular MMA fighter as well as friends with Dana White
Lacks: A winning streak since losing the title (1-1 since losing the title)
Needs: To return to championship form with a KO (two decisions since losing the title)

Wanderlei Silva 32-8-1 (2-3 UFC)
Notable Wins: Quinton Jackson, Ricardo Arona, Keith Jardine
Has going for him: He owns the former LHW Champion "Rampage"
Lacks: A winning streak (1-3 including the OWGP semifinal)
Needs: To have a strong win in his next match with whomever it may be

Quinton Jackson 28-7 (2-1 UFC)
Notable Wins: Chuck Liddell, Dan Henderson
Has going for him: A great deal of people believe he should still be champion
Lacks:
Needs: Dana White to give him the rematch many feel he deserves

Mauricio Rua 16-3 (0-1 UFC)
Notable Wins: Quinton Jackson, Ricardo Arona, Antonio Rogerio Nogueira
Has going for him: People still consider him the best when healthy
Lacks: Credibility with American fans and a winning streak
Needs: To get healthy because he can be the best fighter at still a young age

This is my analysis of the top contenders. I really think none of the other three are ready and Shogun is injured still. I don't know what's happening with the UFC because a Wanderlei-Rampage rematch could be bank. I just don't think Chuck is ready for a title shot and neither is Wanderlei. I've already expressed my opinion on Machida. Heck, if you want two guys fighting for the title shot, make it Rampage and Machida. I just think Rampage deserves an immediate rematch.

 

[JohnMal]

This is my analysis of the top contenders. I really think none of the other three are ready and Shogun is injured still. I don't know what's happening with the UFC because a Wanderlei-Rampage rematch could be bank. I just don't think Chuck is ready for a title shot and neither is Wanderlei. I've already expressed my opinion on Machida. Heck, if you want two guys fighting for the title shot, make it Rampage and Machida. I just think Rampage deserves an immediate rematch.

The division is stacked. I think there has to be a rematch and I think, based on Saturday, people will watch.
I think Chuck and Wandy have seen the peaks of their careers. I am not sure they have the game anymore to take the belt, considering the talent in the division. I would love to see either of them fight Machida. I think Anderson Silva is a real wild card. You could say the same thing about Shogun.
Any fights between these guys would be good.

 

[Chainsaw318]

I think Anderson Silva is a real wild card.

If I were a MMA fighter with aspirations on a long reign as champ at 205, I would be scared to death of Silva. I heard an interview with Dana White the other day, and he offered up that Silva is normally up over 205, and then cuts to 185. If he isn't packing on weight to move up, he should retain much of his speed, aggression and agility. The guy is a monster. I think I have seen each of his fights since entering the UFC, and I am hard pressed to remember him looking like he was in any real trouble, except maybe briefly against Henderson.

 

[tulse_luper]

If I were a MMA fighter with aspirations on a long reign as champ at 205, I would be scared to death of Silva. I heard an interview with Dana White the other day, and he offered up that Silva is normally up over 205, and then cuts to 185. If he isn't packing on weight to move up, he should retain much of his speed, aggression and agility. The guy is a monster. I think I have seen each of his fights since entering the UFC, and I am hard pressed to remember him looking like he was in any real trouble, except maybe briefly against Henderson.

Travis Lutter (a Lutter depleted by trying and failing to make weight at that) had him in a spot of bother. I believe Silva underwent knee surgery shortly after that fight though, so I'm not inclined to judge him too harshly for it, especially since all his other recent performances have been stellar.

 

[sachmoney]

Travis Lutter (a Lutter depleted by trying and failing to make weight at that) had him in a spot of bother. I believe Silva underwent knee surgery shortly after that fight though, so I'm not inclined to judge him too harshly for it, especially since all his other recent performances have been stellar.

Actually I believe he had surgery on both knees eight weeks before that fight. Joe Rogan said it looked like he'd been double knee barred after the fight. He was icing them and everything.

 

[tulse_luper]

Actually I believe he had surgery on both knees eight weeks before that fight. Joe Rogan said it looked like he'd been double knee barred after the fight. He was icing them and everything.

Yeah, I stand corrected, that does sound right.

 

[tulse_luper]

Rampage Jackson arrested...

"Light heavyweight sensation Quinton "Rampage" Jackson was arrested Tuesday by Costa Mesa police officers following a high-speed pursuit through the Californian suburbs from Costa Mesa to Newport Beach, according to a report from The Daily Pilot."

Sherdog

In a truck with his picture on the side. Smart!

Pictures

 

[sachmoney]

Yeah, when I first saw that, I was absolutely stunned. I'm still stunned. Rampage is probably my favorite light heavyweight at the moment (Shogun is inactive until he returns in my mind). This really came out of left field. It's like he thought he was playing GTA in real life or something. I really want to know what happened because it's really out of character. I'm like really shocked.

 

[sachmoney]

Rampage was detained and taken to see mental health professionals today. I don't know what that means...this story gets more and more interesting.

 

[tulse_luper]

You do have to wonder don't you? Apparently there was no drink or drugs involved, so quite why he'd end up going off on one like that is hard to fathom. In spite of his daft quotes, he always came across as a fairly level headed, well adjusted guy.

Big weekend of fights coming up, with Affliction and the UFC card on Spike.

Affliction:

MAIN CARD (PPV)

* Fedor Emelianenko vs. Tim Sylvia
* Andrei Arlovski vs. Ben Rothwell
* Josh Barnett vs. Pedro Rizzo
* Renato "Babalu" Sobral vs. Mike Whitehead
* Matt Lindland vs. Fabio Nascimento
* Edwin Dewees vs. Antonio Rogerio Nogueira
* J.J. Ambrose vs. Mike Pyle
* Ray Lazama vs. Justin Levens (swing bout)

PRELIMINARY CARD (FSN)

* Paul Buentello vs. Aleksander Emelianenko
* Vitor Belfort vs. Terry Martin
* Mark Hominick vs. Savant Young

That's a great card really (on paper at least), stronger than a lot of recent UFC PPVs.

I've felt like Fedor has been due an upset for quite a while now, with his sporadic fights and lack of top class opponents, but I doubt Sylvia is the guy to do it. I'd expect he'll end up on his back and in trouble fairly quickly. Stranger things have happened though. Either way, the MMA forums will all be full of UFC vs Pride junk come Monday morning.

It's great to see Barnett, lil Nog and Lindland back in action too. All of those guys were considered around the top end of the respective divisions only a year or 2 ago, and it's only lack of action that has seen their stock fall.

A big night for Affliction anyway, WFA were supposed to be the big threat to Zuffa when they relaunched, and we all saw how that worked out. If they can put on a decent show this weekend, and then book Couture vs Fedor for later in the year (legal wrangling notwithstanding) they might be able to start getting some real traction. It's not long since Barnett vs Fedor was the HW match everyone was clamouring for either.

UFC:

MAIN CARD

* Anderson Silva vs. James Irvin
* Brandon Vera vs. Reese Andy
* Frankie Edgar vs. Hermes Franca
* Jake O'Brien vs. Cain Velasquez
* Kevin Burns vs. Anthony Johnson
* C.B. Dollaway vs. Jesse Taylor

PRELIMINARY CARD

* Tim Credeur vs. Cale Yarbrough
* Brodie Farber vs. Rory Markham
* Brad Blackburn vs. James Giboo
* Nate Loughran vs. Johnny Rees
* Shannon Gugerty vs. Dale Hartt

I think Irvin is tailor made for Silva. Irvin hits hard, so he's always got a chance, but he'll likely try to stand and trade and he's by no means a technically pretty striker. Silva should be too fast, crisp and accurate for him. You never know how the weight will pan out, but given how easily Silva whipped Franklin and Henderson, both of whom are very big for 185lbs, I don't see it being a huge factor.

Vera could be a real threat at 205lbs and has the personality to be a star, but I think he's in a bit of a no-win situation here. Reese Andy is more or less unknown, but comes with a very, very impressive wrestling pedigree. If Vera smokes him everyone expected it anyway, and if he gets stuck on his back and mauled for 15 minutes, he's probably going to have to win a lot of fights to earn his way into the title picture.

 

[sachmoney]

I hope Fedor Barnett is a fight that happens at some point. It's a fight that's been a long time coming. Affliction is an absolutely stacked card. I mean there are a lot of good fights too. Antonio Rogerio Nogueira: I wonder why he's not in the UFC...may be it's because of Lyoto, since they both fight out of Black House. I don't think Sylvia stands a chance against Fedor. I don't care about Lindland. No one can deny his wrestling skills, but he's one of the most boring fighters.

Couture-Fedor would be huge. I'm a huge Couture fan, even through the contract dispute.

 

[JohnMal]

Affliction:

MAIN CARD (PPV)

* Fedor Emelianenko vs. Tim Sylvia
* Andrei Arlovski vs. Ben Rothwell
* Josh Barnett vs. Pedro Rizzo
* Renato "Babalu" Sobral vs. Mike Whitehead
* Matt Lindland vs. Fabio Nascimento
* Edwin Dewees vs. Antonio Rogerio Nogueira
* J.J. Ambrose vs. Mike Pyle
* Ray Lazama vs. Justin Levens (swing bout)

PRELIMINARY CARD (FSN)

* Paul Buentello vs. Aleksander Emelianenko
* Vitor Belfort vs. Terry Martin
* Mark Hominick vs. Savant Young



UFC:

MAIN CARD

* Anderson Silva vs. James Irvin
* Brandon Vera vs. Reese Andy
* Frankie Edgar vs. Hermes Franca
* Jake O'Brien vs. Cain Velasquez
* Kevin Burns vs. Anthony Johnson
* C.B. Dollaway vs. Jesse Taylor

PRELIMINARY CARD

* Tim Credeur vs. Cale Yarbrough
* Brodie Farber vs. Rory Markham
* Brad Blackburn vs. James Giboo
* Nate Loughran vs. Johnny Rees
* Shannon Gugerty vs. Dale Hartt

This could be the biggest night in the recent history of MMA. I wonder how well Affliction will do?
I can't wait to see how Fedor handles Sylvia. I think there is a lot of pressure on him. Silva is a beast. 205 doesn't shift the odds against him a whole hell of a lot.
There is no way I sleep before 3am tonight.

 

[BigMike]

One of my buddies at work told me to watch this Spike event. I was watching some other things earlier in the night, but figured I'd catch the last hour.

My first real exposure to the sport is now

Brandon Vera vs. Reese Andy

Good God this match sucked. It was like some gay karma sultra where there was no action, but a whole lot of hugging and weird positions. The crowd was booing. As someone who does like Boxing, this was worse than any boxing match I have seen, and I have seen some awful ones.

Hopefully this Silva fight is the real deal

 

[sachmoney]

Silva destroyed Irvin and Fedor destroyed Sylvia. Affliction was so good. I think it's the best card I've seen in a long time. They can make some really big fights happen.

 

[JohnMal]

Silva destroyed Irvin and Fedor destroyed Sylvia. Affliction was so good. I think it's the best card I've seen in a long time. They can make some really big fights happen.

The only thing to debate now is who is the best p4p?

Anyone think Randy Couture really wants to fight Fedor?

 

[sachmoney]

The only thing to debate now is who is the best p4p?

Anyone think Randy Couture really wants to fight Fedor?

Randy saw Fedor last night and may have had second thoughts. I think once Randy gets in the gym and starts working of moves to stop the Cyborg, he will become more confident and will legitimately have a chance. Randy has a big legacy already, and I hope he doesn't come back and ruin it. Part of me wants the UFC to keep this lawsuit going because I truly don't want Randy's legacy tarnished. Part of me wants to see Randy shock the world again. Part of me doesn't want Fedor to lose.

Additionally, if Fedor inevitably beats Randy then beats Andrei...he will have beaten four out of five of the recent UFC Heavyweight Champions with Frank Mir being the only one hadn't beat. I think if he beat Barnett as well (what I think will be his toughest test), it will be 5 of the last 7 (Ricco Rodriguez). That's an unbelievable feat he could do, and it's very possible, so long as Affliction stays in business. If you want to talk about legacy, how does that not solidify Fedor's legacy?

In terms of the pound for pound debate, I do think Anderson Silva is the best pound for pound fighter in the world. He is my favorite active fighter to watch, so I will admit bias. Honestly, I've never understood the mystique about Fedor until last night. However, the thing going against Fedor is the fact that he is a Heavyweight and Anderson is a Middleweight. Fedor could possibly be the greatest fighter in the world, but Anderson is the greatest fighter in the world at a lighterweight.

If Anderson continues to fight at 205 (he should, Okami is injured...and Cote? Please don't give title shots to make title fights), he will solidify his pound for pound claim because he will fight better fighters. I know he recently made statements saying that it's Lyoto's belt, but I don't care. Of all the UFC champions, I would like to see Anderson fight in multiple weight classes the most. I think he's the most exciting and the most dynamic.

Also, I hope no soshers complain about the fact that he has limited english. I hate when people bash foreign fighters, especially on the level of Fedor or Anderson Silva.

 

[JohnMal]

Randy saw Fedor last night and may have had second thoughts. I think once Randy gets in the gym and starts working of moves to stop the Cyborg, he will become more confident and will legitimately have a chance. Randy has a big legacy already, and I hope he doesn't come back and ruin it. Part of me wants the UFC to keep this lawsuit going because I truly don't want Randy's legacy tarnished. Part of me wants to see Randy shock the world again. Part of me doesn't want Fedor to lose.

Additionally, if Fedor inevitably beats Randy then beats Andrei...he will have beaten four out of five of the recent UFC Heavyweight Champions with Frank Mir being the only one hadn't beat. I think if he beat Barnett as well (what I think will be his toughest test), it will be 5 of the last 7 (Ricco Rodriguez). That's an unbelievable feat he could do, and it's very possible, so long as Affliction stays in business. If you want to talk about legacy, how does that not solidify Fedor's legacy?

In terms of the pound for pound debate, I do think Anderson Silva is the best pound for pound fighter in the world. He is my favorite active fighter to watch, so I will admit bias. Honestly, I've never understood the mystique about Fedor until last night. However, the thing going against Fedor is the fact that he is a Heavyweight and Anderson is a Middleweight. Fedor could possibly be the greatest fighter in the world, but Anderson is the greatest fighter in the world at a lighterweight.

If Anderson continues to fight at 205 (he should, Okami is injured...and Cote? Please don't give title shots to make title fights), he will solidify his pound for pound claim because he will fight better fighters. I know he recently made statements saying that it's Lyoto's belt, but I don't care. Of all the UFC champions, I would like to see Anderson fight in multiple weight classes the most. I think he's the most exciting and the most dynamic.

Also, I hope no soshers complain about the fact that he has limited english. I hate when people bash foreign fighters, especially on the level of Fedor or Anderson Silva.

If the money is there, I think Randy fights Fedor. (It is what he does.) That said, I do not think he has better then a 25% chance of winning and it isn't going up.
I like Anderson Silva a lot. However, I think Fedor's fight record is a little shinier. (He beat Big Nog, twice.) If Silva starts knocking off 205ers, that edge could easily disappear.
Should be fun to watch.

 

[Ahriman]

Additionally, if Fedor inevitably beats Randy then beats Andrei...he will have beaten four out of five of the recent UFC Heavyweight Champions with Frank Mir being the only one hadn't beat. I think if he beat Barnett as well (what I think will be his toughest test), it will be 5 of the last 7 (Ricco Rodriguez). That's an unbelievable feat he could do, and it's very possible, so long as Affliction stays in business. If you want to talk about legacy, how does that not solidify Fedor's legacy?

Fedor's legacy has been set in stone for awhile now. Even before last night, a large portion of long-time MMA junkies considered Fedor to be the best fighter of all times. Sure, his recent period of inactiveness and sub-standard competition took some of the luster off his star, but I don't know anyone who really thought that tarnished his legacy other than new MMA fans who missed out on Pride and only know about MMA through the latest incarnation of the UFC. Not saying that's you, but that the side of the fence on which I've found most of the Silva > Fedor crowd.

Consider this: Anderson Silva has fought 3 times against past or current champions -- Rich Franklin x2 and Dan Henderson (his only real tests, in my opinion) -- and has a sterling 3-0 record. Very impressive. However, Fedor has fought 10 times against past or current champions and has a 10-0 record against far better competition than most of what Silva has encountered up to this point in his career. Also, Fedor has never lost a round on a judge's scorecard while Silva had very, very shaky start to his career in Pride.

I, too, think Silva is the most entertaining fighter alive, but Fedor has been the best all along -- a sleeping dragon is still a dragon. Though, they both have that Tyson-aura about them. They're actually very similar fighters in how they conduct themselves (lack of emotion, total focus) and fighting style (strikes to find submissions).

-----

Affliction seems to have set themselves up well for some monster heavyweight cards in the future. They're shelling out the big bucks for top-tier talent and it should pay off (I hope, anyway). Fedor pocketed 1.5 million for that destruction of Sylvia. Anderson Silva? He's in the middle of a long-term deal and only received 400k for his minute of work. Looks like Fedor made the smart move in playing hardball with Dana White; can fight where ever he wants for how much he wants and he's only 31 years old.

 

[sachmoney]

Fedor's legacy has been set in stone for awhile now. Even before last night, a large portion of long-time MMA junkies considered Fedor to be the best fighter of all times. Sure, his recent period of inactiveness and sub-standard competition took some of the luster off his star, but I don't know anyone who really thought that tarnished his legacy other than new MMA fans who missed out on Pride and only know about MMA through the latest incarnation of the UFC. Not saying that's you, but that the side of the fence on which I've found most of the Silva > Fedor crowd.

Consider this: Anderson Silva has fought 3 times against past or current champions -- Rich Franklin x2 and Dan Henderson (his only real tests, in my opinion) -- and has a sterling 3-0 record. Very impressive. However, Fedor has fought 10 times against past or current champions and has a 10-0 record against far better competition than most of what Silva has encountered up to this point in his career. Also, Fedor has never lost a round on a judge's scorecard while Silva had very, very shaky start to his career in Pride.

I, too, think Silva is the most entertaining fighter alive, but Fedor has been the best all along -- a sleeping dragon is still a dragon. Though, they both have that Tyson-aura about them. They're actually very similar fighters in how they conduct themselves (lack of emotion, total focus) and fighting style (strikes to find submissions).

-----

Affliction seems to have set themselves up well for some monster heavyweight cards in the future. They're shelling out the big bucks for top-tier talent and it should pay off (I hope, anyway). Fedor pocketed 1.5 million for that destruction of Sylvia. Anderson Silva? He's in the middle of a long-term deal and only received 400k for his minute of work. Looks like Fedor made the smart move in playing hardball with Dana White; can fight where ever he wants for how much he wants and he's only 31 years old.

I'm glad there is another MMA fan who really knows what he's talking about. I am all too familiar with Fedor's legacy. I know he's a legend, I guess my point was that people have been ragging on him recently because he hasn't fought the top level competition at the heavyweight division (Lindland, HMC). The MMA Community seems like a "what have you done for me lately" type of crowd. Fedor's legacy is cemented, but I was just saying from the stand point of the Fedor vs UFC type legacy. People wanted to see how Fedor would fare against the UFC HWs. Well, him defeating them would answer that (although I believe most people always held the belief that he would beat them).

I totally agree about Anderson though. There's a reason he has 4 losses in his record. He didn't have the confidence that he exhibits now. The one thing you have to notice about Silva more than anything is his footwork. His footwork wasn't nearly as light as it is now when he was fighting the likes of Ryo Chonan in PRIDE. Nowadays, it's as if he's floating.

The pound for pound title can change more so based on current performance. I mean you can look at a guy's career and say he's always been good. Fedor has always been good. You look at Anderson's career and you look and you say, he stuggled to find his niche, but now he seems unstoppable. It's a tough call and it's definitely a solid split between the two fighters. They certainly are on another plane from everyone else.

BTW, I probably got into Fedor a few years ago (2005), but I'm a huge fan of PRIDE, Fedor included, and I've seen a lot of his fights. I am totally aware of his legacy. I just meant more in the grand scope of the typical American fan's eyes, some of the fighters he has faced don't really mean anything to them.

Fedor's impressive victories: Sylvia (Former UFC Champ), Hunt (K-1 GP Champ), Coleman twice (UFC and PRIDE Champ), Mirko "Crocop" Filipovic (2006 GP Champ), Antonio "Minotauro" Rodrigo Nogueira twice (PRIDE Champ), Kevin Randlemen (UFC Champ), Semmy Schlitt (K-1 GP Champ), Renato "Babalu" Sobral, and Ricardo Arona.

That's eleven of his 27 fights and one NC. That's ridiculous. I think that's what separates him and Randy...how they've fought for the title so many times (Randy has ten wins in 15 title shots/defenses).

Anderson's impressive victories: Dan Henderson (PRIDE WW and Former MW Champion), Rich Franklin twice (UFC Champ), Nate Marquardt (King of Pancrase Champ), Carlos Newton (UFC WW Champ), and Hayato "Mach" Sakurai (Shooto Champ)

I mean you can say oh Newton and Sakurai were smaller, but Anderson was a small dude back then. He's moved up in weight and now he's fought LHW. That's impressive considering he started at the 170ish division (Shooto was 167). I think that's impressive. I would definitely like to see him fight more at LHW. I feel like Yushin should be the next in line (he's injured though), and that despite what they said, Cote should fight a couple more times. I really feel like other than Okami, there are no immediate contenders for the belt. I feel like Anderson should fight at LHW when there's no one to fight him at MW. The Okami injury opens up this possibility.

 

[Ahriman]

I agree with just about everything you wrote. My points of contention are merely semantic and not worth getting into.

I would definitely like to see him fight more at LHW. I feel like Yushin should be the next in line (he's injured though), and that despite what they said, Cote should fight a couple more times. I really feel like other than Okami, there are no immediate contenders for the belt. I feel like Anderson should fight at LHW when there's no one to fight him at MW. The Okami injury opens up this possibility.

There really isn't anything left for Silva at MW other than Okami, which isn't all that intriguing of a fight given Okami's style. Sure, the whole DQ thing is an angle to play up, but I really doubt the fight would last more than two minutes unless Okami skips around the cage. I'll feel a bit cheated when Anderson goes back to MW.

My theory as to why he and Dana have agreed to have him clean out the MW division is because Dana knows that there isn't anyone at LHW who could beat him (barring a fluke, which is saying a lot) and he wants to keep the appearance of having more than one strong division. It makes more sense to have GSP move up for a super-fight than for Silva to destroy Dana's pride and joy - the LHW division.

 

[sachmoney]

There really isn't anything left for Silva at MW other than Okami, which isn't all that intriguing of a fight given Okami's style. Sure, the whole DQ thing is an angle to play up, but I really doubt the fight would last more than two minutes unless Okami skips around the cage. I'll feel a bit cheated when Anderson goes back to MW.

My theory as to why he and Dana have agreed to have him clean out the MW division is because Dana knows that there isn't anyone at LHW who could beat him (barring a fluke, which is saying a lot) and he wants to keep the appearance of having more than one strong division. It makes more sense to have GSP move up for a super-fight than for Silva to destroy Dana's pride and joy - the LHW division.

People say Okami has gotten a lot stronger since the first fight, but I think both fighters have grown a lot. Anderson was absolutely dominating him until the up kick. I think Silva is more dynamic than ever, and for Okami to get a takedown, he has to shoot through powerful kicks, knees, and punches. I think the fight is more of a matter of PRIDE for Silva than a challenge.

I agree with you, he doesn't want to let Silva move up, but you know from Dana's comments, I think he's really tempted. Dana has a lot of fighters who are friends, and he loves them because of that. Anderson Silva is just a great fighter, and Dana loves him for his fighting. I think if there is one fighter he would let move up, it is Silva. I think at some point, he will have to vacate the belt in order to go after LHW or they just let him waste at LHW. He needs to be challenged to get better. Yeah I said it...better.

 

[tulse_luper]

If Bisping gets past Leben in anything resembling impressive fashion I'd imagine he might be in line for a title shot too, since they seem pretty intent on pushing him. If that fight gets booked, Bisping should book his rhinoplasty appointment ahead of time.

Affliction must be over the moon with how their event went. All the people that were supposed to win did so, and looked impressive in the process. The live gate was good too. It'll be interesting to see what sort of PPV numbers they did, since the UFC card had a pretty nice rating. The payroll numbers are pretty mind boggling, they're obviously serious about being in this for the long haul if they were willing to sink that much money for their first event.

I think Arlovski vs Fedor has a chance to make a real splash if it comes to fruition.

 

[JohnMal]

I think Arlovski vs Fedor has a chance to make a real splash if it comes to fruition.

I read that might happen in November. SI
Good fight there.

 

[tulse_luper]

11 October in Vegas is being reported now.

Yahoo

Looking too far ahead in MMA always seems to end in disaster, but how about Fedor running a gauntlet of Arlovski, Couture and Barnett over the next 12 months or so? Mouthwatering!

 

[Mr Weebles]

If Bisping gets past Leben in anything resembling impressive fashion I'd imagine he might be in line for a title shot too, since they seem pretty intent on pushing him. If that fight gets booked, Bisping should book his rhinoplasty appointment ahead of time.

Affliction must be over the moon with how their event went. All the people that were supposed to win did so, and looked impressive in the process. The live gate was good too. It'll be interesting to see what sort of PPV numbers they did, since the UFC card had a pretty nice rating. The payroll numbers are pretty mind boggling, they're obviously serious about being in this for the long haul if they were willing to sink that much money for their first event.

I think Arlovski vs Fedor has a chance to make a real splash if it comes to fruition.

One report I read had their PPV buys at around 125,000.

After adding in live gate and taking out costs, it looks like they might have lost around a million bucks.

 

[sachmoney]

11 October in Vegas is being reported now.

Looking too far ahead in MMA always seems to end in disaster, but how about Fedor running a gauntlet of Arlovski, Couture and Barnett over the next 12 months or so? Mouthwatering!

Yeah, that's what I heard too. I don't see the UFC running any live counterprogramming on that date considering they have a show the next weekend. I expect them to get a previous pay per view or something like that on SPIKE.

One report I read had their PPV buys at around 125,000.

After adding in live gate and taking out costs, it looks like they might have lost around a million bucks.

That's not bad. I've said numerous times that Affliction may need to incur a loss to establish a fan base and a following. They've had one quality show in my opinion (fights are all that matter). I definitely want to purchase the next one because Arlovski-Fedor is a huge fight. I don't know what other fights they'd throw out there. I would love to see Barnett get a crack at Big Timmeh (who I think is reaching the end of his MMA career). If they can get a solid talent base it would be nice. I mean you have Minotoro, who has not really anyone to fight. I'm sure you could get someone like Overeem or something...

What do you all think needs to be improved in terms of production. Also, please don't hate on Megadeth just because you don't like them.

 

[sachmoney]

Lost in the boxing fight tonight was the Elite XC Card: Unfinished Business. I didn't really get to see many of the fights at all (I saw Diaz-Denny and Shields-Thompson), but overall it seemed like a much better card than the one they had for their first network broadcast with Kimbo. It seemed like Gus Johnson was better and the whole broadcast team worked better.

 

[JohnMal]

I liked the Elite card. The fights were entertaining, the production was good, and it was FREE. I hope EliteXC keeps it up.
What do you guys think of the unified rules argument? Ring or cage?

 

[Vinho Tinto]

One report I read had their PPV buys at around 125,000.

After adding in live gate and taking out costs, it looks like they might have lost around a million bucks.

According to Metzler the losses were in the millions.