The Truth doesn't want to share his night

BigSoxFan

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I’m siding with PP on this one. Celtics offered a tribute video to IT and he turned it down. Feb’s game is PP night - he shouldn’t have to share. IT can wait until next season.
 

Koufax

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Because he gave his heart and soul to the team, won us a bunch of games and was wildly entertaining in the way he did it.
 

Koufax

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Agreed. IT had his chance last night. Now it might never happen.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Can someone explain why IT should even get a tribute video?
Because the guy was instrumental in the recent turnaround of the franchise. He not only embraced his role on the team but also clearly loved playing in Boston. Its pretty apparent that if the Celtics were prepared to pay him, he would have been content to play the bulk of what is left of his career in Boston. And to be clear, this isn't to suggest he would have taken below market, nor should anyone have expected him to do so. However it wouldn't have shocked me if he did take a slight discount to stay a Celtic - he seemed to love it here that much. Finally, he played a role in recruiting both Horford and Hayward to Boston.

I love Pierce and its his evening. However this is also the last chance that Thomas will have for a tribute this season. A two or three minute tribute video between quarters or during a TV timeout won't diminish the fact that its PP's night but it will reinforce the importance that iconic players mean something to a storied franchise. The timing isn't optimal to do both but I am not sure what other choice Boston has after Thomas' request the other night.

Of course, this is now going to be red meat for the media and the hot takez crowd so, in the end, the sound and fury around it will likely dilute the positive sentiments.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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So did Jae Crowder, where is his night?
Thomas isn't getting a "night". He is getting a tribute video like Crowder did last night - though likely a bit longer. Are you under the impression that Thomas or the Celtics are planning on a whole evening of remembrance? Because I don't think that is on the table.
 

Marbleheader

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There was really no reason for him to refuse it yesterday. It really shouldn't have been his call at all. Stay in the tunnel if you don't want to be out there for it. It was really petty of him, it's about the fans, not about the Celtics brass. It was his first time back in the building and it didn't matter that he wasn't playing.

Sure, it's a little on the petty side for PP, but deserves his own night and the Celtics really shouldn't have made that an option.
 

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ITs stance on all this doesn't make sense. He SEEMS to me to be an emotional player. He often showed his true feelings - both the highs and the lows and not much of a poker face. He seems to let his emotions drive his play. A lot of players say they don't want the distractions when they are trying to play. So if he wanted his family president for the tribute (a statement attributed to him), why not bring them to town last night for the tribute. They (and he) get to bask in the moment when it will have zero effect on his play or emotional state for his new team. Then when he is in town for the next game, he can focus on the game in front of him without the feelings. It seemed a no brainer - I mean does he not want to bring his family to town twice or something? It's weird to me.

It also leaves the Celtics in a weird place of acquiescing to a player that isn't on the team anymore, and leaves Pierce in a position of having to be seen as petty for simply wanting his own moment in the sun.

In the big picture none of it matters, but I think IT4 has handled it poorly to the detriment of everyone involved.
 

scottyno

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So did Jae Crowder, where is his night?
They had a video tribute to Crowder last night during pregame intros. Without Thomas there's no Horford, possibly no Hayward, obviously no Kyrie (though it would be awkward to thank IT for that) and this team is probably the Sixers hoping to strike lottery gold year after year.
 

RetractableRoof

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They had a video tribute to Crowder last night during pregame intros. Without Thomas there's no Horford, possibly no Hayward, obviously no Kyrie (though it would be awkward to thank IT for that) and this team is probably the Sixers hoping to strike lottery gold year after year.
I know IT4 specifically recruited for the Celtics - Horford, Hayward included. He also spoke with other players it was clear. That said, I think it is revisionist history to give IT4 ALL the credit for Horford and more than passing credit for Hayward. It seems pretty clear that Hayward was swayed by Stevens and his relationship with him. If you take IT4 off the team I bet he still comes. As for Horford, he was sold a team on the rise, with a treasure chest of draft picks and a GM that had a reputation for building / wheeling and dealing. Not to mention that huge contract thing. He had just been part of the team that bounced the Celtics from the playoffs the year before and chose to come here anyway. I don't believe that IT4's persona had quite exploded to the level it did last year at that point - so stating that Horford doesn't come here without IT4 seems an awful strong of a statement - unless you've got a link for a Horford statement that says that.

I'm with Mike Gorman on this one. I loved IT4s heart, I love what he gave of himself every night on the court. But in the pantheon of Celtics that have been through the doors, he's acting like he is the royalty of the organization versus the self proclaimed "king of the fourth" for a very short 2.5 year stint. Time for him to focus on being the best Cavalier he can be (and I wish him well except against the Celtics), and let go for now that he was a part of the Boston team. Angry at Danny, don't want a tribute, whatever. Just move on at this point.
 

Eddie Jurak

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I hope the two of them, and the Celtics, can work something out. Sucks to have this kind of dumb conflict between two of our recent greats.

Yes, 2 greats. They are on different levels, of course, but don't we all remember the pre-IT Celtics? The Brad Stevens Celtics were 45-89 (an abysmal .336 winning percentage) on the day of IT's first game with the team. During the rest of IT's tenure, they were 121-73 (a .624 winning percentage). He was the heart and soul of those teams until Danny traded him.

He deserves his moment, and his desire to play in the game and have his family on hand when it happens is understandable. It is just unfortunate that there is a conflict with Pierce's day.

I hope the 2 of them can work it out amicably.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I hope the two of them, and the Celtics, can work something out. Sucks to have this kind of dumb conflict between two of our recent greats.

Yes, 2 greats. They are on different levels, of course, but don't we all remember the pre-IT Celtics? The Brad Stevens Celtics were 45-89 (an abysmal .336 winning percentage) on the day of IT's first game with the team. During the rest of IT's tenure, they were 121-73 (a .624 winning percentage). He was the heart and soul of those teams until Danny traded him.

He deserves his moment, and his desire to play in the game and have his family on hand when it happens is understandable. It is just unfortunate that there is a conflict with Pierce's day.

I hope the 2 of them can work it out amicably.
This.

Its funny because last night Pierce even gave IT props for even meeting with Ainge before the game. Hopefully this goes away but I won't hold my breath.
 

scottyno

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I know IT4 specifically recruited for the Celtics - Horford, Hayward included. He also spoke with other players it was clear. That said, I think it is revisionist history to give IT4 ALL the credit for Horford and more than passing credit for Hayward. It seems pretty clear that Hayward was swayed by Stevens and his relationship with him. If you take IT4 off the team I bet he still comes. As for Horford, he was sold a team on the rise, with a treasure chest of draft picks and a GM that had a reputation for building / wheeling and dealing. Not to mention that huge contract thing. He had just been part of the team that bounced the Celtics from the playoffs the year before and chose to come here anyway. I don't believe that IT4's persona had quite exploded to the level it did last year at that point - so stating that Horford doesn't come here without IT4 seems an awful strong of a statement - unless you've got a link for a Horford statement that says that.
I meant it more as if they don't get IT, or if IT doesn't blossom into a star caliber player then they aren't a team on the rise. If they win 35-40 games instead of 48 in 15-16 does Horford sign here? Maybe, but I doubt it. And then no Horford means probably no Hayward. I know IT was involved in the actual recruitment, but no idea to what extent if any that played a role in getting them.
 

RetractableRoof

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I meant it more as if they don't get IT, or if IT doesn't blossom into a star caliber player then they aren't a team on the rise. If they win 35-40 games instead of 48 in 15-16 does Horford sign here? Maybe, but I doubt it. And then no Horford means probably no Hayward. I know IT was involved in the actual recruitment, but no idea to what extent if any that played a role in getting them.
I in no way am underselling IT4. But if they didn't have IT4, then they would have had another player capable of certain things (this was the year before last). One of Stevens strengths is juggling, positioning and using a deep bench to maximize during the regular season. He made Turner and Crawford look good in that context. He would have made someone else look good (maybe not as good as IT4). I believe that the reputation of the coach and GM would still have the perception of a team on the rise. Who knows, but again, you're giving IT4 credit for the entire perception of the team on the rise - and two years ago he wasn't the only thing on the team that looked good. I'm not buying the "if not for IT4 then no Horford" one to one linkage.

He was an incredible story, he loved his time here. The fans loved him and it was a really good thing. This past season he was absolutely magical. But it's ok if it stops there and we don't give him credit for more than what he really accomplished.
 

Reardons Beard

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What Paul wants, Paul gets. Sorry IT but you ain't Paul Pierce.

No tribute video. Ever. Had his chance, but this behavior? Lost the honor.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I’m siding with PP on this one. Celtics offered a tribute video to IT and he turned it down. Feb’s game is PP night - he shouldn’t have to share. IT can wait until next season.
This sums up my thoughts too. This is Paul''s night and ONLY Paul's night.....he has earned this.

Isaiah also earned a better tribute than Jae and we were prepared to give it to him last night....he fought against it now to have it later when he would be playing. In fairness to IT, I strongly doubt he has any idea that Paul's night was set for the other Cavs trip to Boston. He can have his next year.
 

The Needler

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Is there going to be a poll? It seems like if the number-retired, all-time great doesn't want it to happen on his night, and a significant percentage of the fandom doesn't want it on his night, then what the still-playing opponent ex-player wants should take a back seat.

#TEAMTRUTH
 

Koufax

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So did Jae Crowder, where is his night?
Others have addressed the "his night" part, but there are major differences between IT and Jae. IT ranked #7 in PER in the NBA, Jae ranked $137. While no single stat tells all, this tells plenty about their relative contributions to the success of the team.

Jae played hard, but he didn't contribute to team-building the way IT did. IT put himself on the line in recruiting other players, as others have said. He came right back after his sister's death, something nobody should be expected to do. He played with a smile on his face, bringing joy to the game. He made it clear that he wanted to be a Celtic for life. He put everything on the line. I liked Jae a lot for the passion he brought to the game, but IT was something very special, and he deserves some opportunity to show that he is still appreciated. He just can't step on PP's toes, that's all.
 

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IT and the rest of HIS Cavs can enjoy the PP festivities next month and then implode and fail to reach the ECF's.

I love PP calling BS on Danny, I agreed to go to the Nets and you give me this shit? WTF!
 

Captaincoop

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Others have addressed the "his night" part, but there are major differences between IT and Jae. IT ranked #7 in PER in the NBA, Jae ranked $137. While no single stat tells all, this tells plenty about their relative contributions to the success of the team.

Jae played hard, but he didn't contribute to team-building the way IT did. IT put himself on the line in recruiting other players, as others have said. He came right back after his sister's death, something nobody should be expected to do. He played with a smile on his face, bringing joy to the game. He made it clear that he wanted to be a Celtic for life. He put everything on the line. I liked Jae a lot for the passion he brought to the game, but IT was something very special, and he deserves some opportunity to show that he is still appreciated. He just can't step on PP's toes, that's all.
He wanted to be a Celtic for life, as long as the Celtics backed a Brinks truck up to house and dumped out a max contract that no other team would be foolish enough to give him.

He was a fun little player for two years. Now he's a Cavalier. Let's all move on.
 

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I'm torn, I loved IT4 and wanted him honored but it will distract from PP's night a little bit. If they're going to do it I think they should do the IT video between the 1st & 2nd quarters or at least during the game as opposed to pre-game or during half time.

Frank Isola just suggested on NBA Radio that PP's night is going to be even further diminished when TB12 shows up at the game and the Celts have to celebrate him winning his 6th Super Bowl and another MVP season.
 

Light-Tower-Power

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I'm with Pierce. I was a major IT4 fan like all of us on here, but he played here for two and a half seasons. Pierce played here for 15 and is a top 3 all-time Celtic. I wish IT would've just gotten the minute long video over with last night instead of making it awkward.
 

IdiotKicker

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I'm with PP as well. I can't find the interview, but there was one with Garnett either right after he was traded to the Cs or right after the 2008 title where he said that in order to secure his place among Celtics greats, he had to win multiple titles, otherwise he hadn't done anything to stand out in franchise lore. That we've gone from that to someone wanting a video and dictating terms of it because they had a really good 2 years where they made the ECF once is disappointing.
 

RGREELEY33

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I loved watching IT4, loved that he loved and embraced Boston, loved that he played hurt and through all of the tragedy with his sister, and was really sad to see him get traded — even though I liked the trade.

With that said, he has been a total diva about the whole trade and his relationship with Ainge and has gone back and forth about everything like 6 times. While I can understand being emotional about it, this was a shit move on his part. I would have no problem if the Celtics tell him “sorry man”, and think that based on PP’s comments, that is exactly what they should do.
 

lexrageorge

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I hate the hate being spewed towards IT4 here. Honestly, if anyone deserves to get a pass for a nothingburger of a mistake, it's Thomas.

He was offered to have a video tribute, and he said that he wanted to do it the next time, as he would be playing and his family would be there. That's all. Did he even know the next game was Paul Pierce retirement ceremony? He was never Pierce's teammate, so it's not inconceivable he truly did not know.

The Pierce ceremony is happening *after* the Cavs game. Honestly, doing a 2 minute video tribute to Thomas between the first and second quarters of the February game will do nothing to lessen the Paul Pierce ceremony. Would fans really rather have the cheerleaders tossing T-shirts into the stands instead?

Does IT deserve the video tribute? Honestly, anyone questioning that needs to stop looking at spreadsheets and start being a fan of the game again.
 
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JCizzle

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I hate the hate being spewed towards IT4 here. Honestly, if anyone deserves to get a pass for a nothingburger of a mistake, it's Thomas.

He was offered to have a video tribute, and he said that he wanted to do it the next time, as he would be playing and his family would be there. That's all. Did he even know the next game was Paul Pierce retirement ceremony? He was never Pierce's teammate, so it's not inconceivable he truly did not know.

The Pierce ceremony is happening *after* the Cavs game. Honestly, doing a 2 minute video tribute to Thomas between the first and second quarters of the February game will do nothing to lessen the Paul Pierce ceremony.

Does IT deserve the video tribute? Honestly, anyone questioning that needs to stop looking at spreadsheets and start being a fan of the game again.
I agree with you 100%. It's crazy to me how quickly people forget what he gave this team even if it was only for two years. That said, apparently the norm for jersey retirements now is videos throughout the game. I just hope he and PP can work something out behind the scenes, they're two of my favorite Celtics.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Does IT deserve the video tribute? Honestly, anyone questioning that needs to stop looking at spreadsheets and start being a fan of the game again.
Word.

I’m kind of disgusted by the willingness of some here to throw IT under the bus so quickly. It’s sickening.

The best solution here is for ITs people, Paul’s people, and the Celtics to put their heads together and come up with a mutually agreeable solution. Whatever that happens to be, I’d be fine with that outcome.
 

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Let's make it 4 in a row then. I've always thought that IT was a genuine person and he seemed that way during his visit this week. He's emotional and he cares, besides his performance, that's what I love about him. Right down to his being "hurt" that Danny didn't send him a Christmas card.

Great guy, show a 60 second video and let the fans cheer him. Paul's jersey is going up forever.
 

FL4WL3SS

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Does IT deserve the video tribute? Honestly, anyone questioning that needs to stop looking at spreadsheets and start being a fan of the game again.
Maybe I'm just a little old school in this regard, but the whole thing seems ridiculous to me. Why pay tribute to a guy that you just traded away to your biggest rival less than 8 months ago? He was a fun player and gave his heart, but there's a history of guys like that playing for the Celtics. Where's the line? Apparently not at Jae Crowder either which is even more ridiculous.

The suggestion that they should do it during the ECF is so wierd to me.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Maybe I'm just a little old school in this regard, but the whole thing seems ridiculous to me. Why pay tribute to a guy that you just traded away to your biggest rival less than 8 months ago? He was a fun player and gave his heart, but there's a history of guys like that playing for the Celtics. Where's the line? Apparently not at Jae Crowder either which is even more ridiculous.

The suggestion that they should do it during the ECF is so wierd to me.
Setting aside your view that Thomas was simply a fun player, the tributes are typically about a minute or two long (if that), happen when there is a break in the action and don't entail anything beyond prompting those in attendance to watch the video board. It's not like they are holding a 15 minute ceremony at halftime.

Furthermore, the objective isn't simply to honor a former player - it's to demonstrate that the team and fans value current and prospective players as well. Old school sensibilities aside, this is a fairly common practice in the NBA and the Cs need to do it if only to keep up with other organizations in terms of perception.

As I said, I love Pierce and I get his sentiment. However, he, and not Thomas, is the one making it a much bigger deal than it actually is. There doesn't need to be "Team Paul" or "Team IT" camps here unless we are now willing to be divided over the most petty, inconsequential things.
 

IdiotKicker

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Paul Pierce is the best Celtic in the last 25 years. If that isn't worthy of him having every minute of one night devoted just to him, then what's the point? It's not Pierce's fault that IT didn't want a video played on the first day he was actually back in town. Does IT deserve a video? I don't think so, but I can at least understand the sentiment. Does he deserve one on the day Paul Pierce's number is retired when there was already another opportunity for a video beforehand that he turned down? Definitely not.
 
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Hagios

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After waffling internally I think I'm on Team Truth for this. It's not just a two minute video during the commercial break, but that media coverage leading up to and after the game will be divided between IT and PP. It won't be just PP's night.
 

RetractableRoof

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Setting aside your view that Thomas was simply a fun player, the tributes are typically about a minute or two long (if that), happen when there is a break in the action and don't entail anything beyond prompting those in attendance to watch the video board. It's not like they are holding a 15 minute ceremony at halftime.

Furthermore, the objective isn't simply to honor a former player - it's to demonstrate that the team and fans value current and prospective players as well. Old school sensibilities aside, this is a fairly common practice in the NBA and the Cs need to do it if only to keep up with other organizations in terms of perception.

As I said, I love Pierce and I get his sentiment. However, he, and not Thomas, is the one making it a much bigger deal than it actually is. There doesn't need to be "Team Paul" or "Team IT" camps here unless we are now willing to be divided over the most petty, inconsequential things.
I think Pierce has an expectation in his mind that this is going to be a Kobe type night for him. Most breaks in the action are going to have a short video piece about his career. He's been quoted about this is numerous places. (I personally think that's overkill, but I'm old school about this stuff.) This is the day the C's and Pierce agreed to earmark for his recognition. They chose a game with a high profile so the most eyeballs around the country would be tuned in, and Pierce could bask in a larger glow. In the context of this expectation, looking up for (yet) another montage about his career and seeing IT4 instead does seem weird.

From that perspective, I'm OK with Pierce saying - hey don't rain on MY parade. If they had played together, I'm guessing Pierce would feel a bit differently, but they didn't. He does unfortunately look petty, but again, it is his day that all parties agreed to. IT4 is the one setting conditions/parameters on his "tribute". Pierce is only in this spot at all because IT4 didn't just simply gracefully acknowledge the moment when the Celtics (presumably) wanted to show it on his first visit back.
 

Minneapolis Millers

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... but don't we all remember the pre-IT Celtics?
Yes, I do. They won 17 championships. Let's keep things in perspective here.
Pierce played here for 15 and is a top 3 all-time Celtic.
I don't agree. Russell, Bird, Hondo are all above him. Personally, I'd put Cousy above him as well. He's on the next tier with Cowens, McHale, Parish imo. And that's obviously not including Red.

In any case, on the specific subject, I tend to agree that Pierce deserves his own night, and that it would also be good PR to find a way to do a short video tribute to IT. But NOT during the playoffs, for crying out loud. Might have to wait until next year.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Quit choosing teams, people.

Pierce is justified in wanting his night to be just for him. Nothing whatsoever selfish about that.

IT earned a little recognition, and it is reasonable for him to want it to be done during a game he plays in.

These are both players Celtics fans should look back fondly on.

I’m on team “amicable resolution”, whatever that looks like.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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After waffling internally I think I'm on Team Truth for this. It's not just a two minute video during the commercial break, but that media coverage leading up to and after the game will be divided between IT and PP. It won't be just PP's night.
Outside of Boston (and NBA nerds) the story of this nationally televised game will be Thomas' return to Boston for the first time as a player. ESPN/ABC will be hyping that just as much, if not more than their employee getting his number retired, IT video tribute or not. Hell, most casual NBA fans won't even care to see the retirement ceremony.

Once again, a quick video tribute will do almost nothing to detract from the team recognizing Pierce in front of the fans who care about him.
 

Ale Xander

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Did Avery have one? He deserves one before IT, and I loved IT.

PP is correct 134%
 

Ale Xander

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I'm torn, I loved IT4 and wanted him honored but it will distract from PP's night a little bit. If they're going to do it I think they should do the IT video between the 1st & 2nd quarters or at least during the game as opposed to pre-game or during half time.

Frank Isola just suggested on NBA Radio that PP's night is going to be even further diminished when TB12 shows up at the game and the Celts have to celebrate him winning his 6th Super Bowl and another MVP season.
that's tentatively scheduled for Feb 9th v. Indiana, my friend.
 

PC Drunken Friar

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Did Avery have one? He deserves one before IT, and I loved IT.

PP is correct 134%
Bradley got a video tribute right before tip-off. Just like what IT would have gotten the other night.

I am with PP on this, but don't understand the hate that IT is getting. (in the issue of a "night"... It would never be an IT "night". It was always going to be a special introduction and a video). It's childish if he wants it on PP night and he shouldn't get it, but he is a huge part of this franchise. How many fans started watching the Celtics again on a gamely basis because of him. I did. He reinvigorated the fan base.
 

Ale Xander

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Quit choosing teams, people.

Pierce is justified in wanting his night to be just for him. Nothing whatsoever selfish about that.

IT earned a little recognition, and it is reasonable for him to want it to be done during a game he plays in.

These are both players Celtics fans should look back fondly on.

I’m on team “amicable resolution”, whatever that looks like.
That was 2 days ago, and IT passed. I don't hate him for it, but it shouldn't be on PP night and it shouldn't be in the playoffs. Offer him one of the games next year, and if he passes again, that's it.
 

Ale Xander

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Bradley got a video tribute right before tip-off. Just like what IT would have gotten the other night.

I am with PP on this, but don't understand the hate that IT is getting. (in the issue of a "night"... It would never be an IT "night". It was always going to be a special introduction and a video). It's childish if he wants it on PP night and he shouldn't get it, but he is a huge part of this franchise. How many fans started watching the Celtics again on a gamely basis because of him. I did. He reinvigorated the fan base.
Thanks PC.