The summer chopping block: who do you want gone and why?
- Thread starter BigSoxFan
- Start date
Fair point. I can’t seem to change the responses but that would have been a better last one than “Other”.
Grant/Smart/Brown. I said run it back immediately after the game last night, but after sleeping on it I think it's time to split the core. As much as I love Smart, he's no longer a good fit for this team. He is already starting to age poorly, his defense slipped this year, and he will never be a great shooter or playmaker. It's time to hand the PG keys over to Derrick White. As far as JB goes, I am not comfortable super-maxing him. Great guy to have in the regular season who will put up points and win you games, but we've seen it two years in a row now that he is just not someone you can trust with the ball in his hands in the playoffs. He's most likely going to get the super-max anyway, but if Brad could find a deal for him I'd be on board with pulling that trigger.
Nurse is the only guy I'd have wanted if Joe got canned, so now that he's off the board I'm ok with giving Joe another year with a more experienced staff.
Nurse is the only guy I'd have wanted if Joe got canned, so now that he's off the board I'm ok with giving Joe another year with a more experienced staff.
For me in order of priority:
Smart: love his tenacity and passion, but I don't think his leadership is really what the team needs. He regressed on D, and White is better offensively.
Coach Joe: I don't think experienced assistants are the solution to unlocking him as a coach, and I don't think it's worth trying that during this teams window.
Grant: I don't believe he's worth what is being predicted (12 mil).
Smart: love his tenacity and passion, but I don't think his leadership is really what the team needs. He regressed on D, and White is better offensively.
Coach Joe: I don't think experienced assistants are the solution to unlocking him as a coach, and I don't think it's worth trying that during this teams window.
Grant: I don't believe he's worth what is being predicted (12 mil).
I have a pretty good idea how this poll is going to look….
I honestly have no idea who should go, it all depends on the offers that Brad gets. Unfortunately, due to a variety of circumstances, I don’t think any Celtics will get back fair value in a trade.
Ideally, you would move Brogdon for a big man who is roughly his equivalent but I doubt he has that type of value with his contract and injury history.
I think it would be wise to investigate trading Rob for a player who has at least a modicum of reliability/availability….but why would anyone trade anything close to his equivalent when his injury/availability problems are obvious to everyone?
Maybe Smart could fetch back similar value? Would Orlando want an adult in the room for their young core? Maybe something could be worked out with Smart and Wendell Carter as principles?
With the SuperMax approaching and the complications with the contract they can offer him after trading for him, Jaylen is staying here for another year (at least, maybe two, maybe more). And the trade offers that have been floated as realistic make the team meaningfully worse next year.
Grant, maybe they can sign and trade him. I have a feeling his market will be severely depressed and i really can’t get worked up one way or the other with him. He fell out of favor with the team for some reason and was a train wreck in Games 6 and 7.
If I had to guess, the changes to the team are Grant and PP gone with bigs coming back (ideally a big wing and a Center)
I honestly have no idea who should go, it all depends on the offers that Brad gets. Unfortunately, due to a variety of circumstances, I don’t think any Celtics will get back fair value in a trade.
Ideally, you would move Brogdon for a big man who is roughly his equivalent but I doubt he has that type of value with his contract and injury history.
I think it would be wise to investigate trading Rob for a player who has at least a modicum of reliability/availability….but why would anyone trade anything close to his equivalent when his injury/availability problems are obvious to everyone?
Maybe Smart could fetch back similar value? Would Orlando want an adult in the room for their young core? Maybe something could be worked out with Smart and Wendell Carter as principles?
With the SuperMax approaching and the complications with the contract they can offer him after trading for him, Jaylen is staying here for another year (at least, maybe two, maybe more). And the trade offers that have been floated as realistic make the team meaningfully worse next year.
Grant, maybe they can sign and trade him. I have a feeling his market will be severely depressed and i really can’t get worked up one way or the other with him. He fell out of favor with the team for some reason and was a train wreck in Games 6 and 7.
If I had to guess, the changes to the team are Grant and PP gone with bigs coming back (ideally a big wing and a Center)
White has two more years on his contract. The core of this team next year needs to be Tatum/Brown/White. He’s become that good a player.
They can work around that core. But those three are the key guys, and White needs to be given the keys.
They can work around that core. But those three are the key guys, and White needs to be given the keys.
Smart
Grant
Smart can likely fetch a pretty decent return at least a better one than Brogdon can. White would be your starting PG and Brogdon still in his role off the bench. They need a veteran 3 and D wing and another big so that Horford doesn't have to play as big of a role going forward.
The people wanting to ship Brown out of town are nuts IMO. You're not getting close to equal value in return for him and would seriously downgrade the talent of this team in the near future. People have to realize that at the ages that Tatum/Brown are that guys like LeBron/Steph/Klay hadn't even begun to win championships yet. I'm not saying these two are at the level of the players I mentioned, but there needs to be some perspective as to just how things work. I'm frustrated that they haven't broke through yet, but in terms of winning a title you're not going to improve on the talent levels of the two best players on this team.
Grant
Smart can likely fetch a pretty decent return at least a better one than Brogdon can. White would be your starting PG and Brogdon still in his role off the bench. They need a veteran 3 and D wing and another big so that Horford doesn't have to play as big of a role going forward.
The people wanting to ship Brown out of town are nuts IMO. You're not getting close to equal value in return for him and would seriously downgrade the talent of this team in the near future. People have to realize that at the ages that Tatum/Brown are that guys like LeBron/Steph/Klay hadn't even begun to win championships yet. I'm not saying these two are at the level of the players I mentioned, but there needs to be some perspective as to just how things work. I'm frustrated that they haven't broke through yet, but in terms of winning a title you're not going to improve on the talent levels of the two best players on this team.
I voted Other, ie., Bring them all back. More pain!
But if I had to pick one to replace, I would say Mazulla.
The challenge is not just to fire guys, but to replace them with better options. That's Brad's job. There is no one on that list who is such a poor player (or person, IMO) that I want them to go away. Watching this same group improve and make it to the top will be very sweet.
Clearly this teams needs a mental skills coach and someone who can get them to be more consistent with their intensity. They are all insanely good at their jobs already, but they have to somehow get over the mental challenges.
But if I had to pick one to replace, I would say Mazulla.
The challenge is not just to fire guys, but to replace them with better options. That's Brad's job. There is no one on that list who is such a poor player (or person, IMO) that I want them to go away. Watching this same group improve and make it to the top will be very sweet.
Clearly this teams needs a mental skills coach and someone who can get them to be more consistent with their intensity. They are all insanely good at their jobs already, but they have to somehow get over the mental challenges.
Didn't vote because my answer would be.... depends.
I think the first two things that drive your offseason are:
1. What are you willing to offer Brown as an extension and what is he willing to sign. If he isn't getting extended you need to move him for value and that's going to cause all kinds of cascades through the roster... is the return another wing? Is it a big... that probably means no Grant, is it a guard? That means 1 or 2 of Brogdon/Smart probably needs to go, etc. etc.
2. If Brown signs (or you think he will sign) and extension, what are you doing with Grant.... match, let him walk, S&T....
3. The guard rotation.... are you trying to get cheaper/younger by moving Smart or Brogdon?
My guess is they offer Jaylen a deal that he signs, they let Grant leave to a big offer.
I think the first two things that drive your offseason are:
1. What are you willing to offer Brown as an extension and what is he willing to sign. If he isn't getting extended you need to move him for value and that's going to cause all kinds of cascades through the roster... is the return another wing? Is it a big... that probably means no Grant, is it a guard? That means 1 or 2 of Brogdon/Smart probably needs to go, etc. etc.
2. If Brown signs (or you think he will sign) and extension, what are you doing with Grant.... match, let him walk, S&T....
3. The guard rotation.... are you trying to get cheaper/younger by moving Smart or Brogdon?
My guess is they offer Jaylen a deal that he signs, they let Grant leave to a big offer.
I'm no GM so I have no clue what players can fetch on the trade market, and who's realistically available to bring in.
Mazzulla has to go because they can't afford to have another season with a head coach learning on the job.
Aside from that, they need to figure out (a) how to play with genuine defensive intensity, and (b) how to create much better player movement and open shots on O. So, whomever can do those things should be here.
Mazzulla has to go because they can't afford to have another season with a head coach learning on the job.
Aside from that, they need to figure out (a) how to play with genuine defensive intensity, and (b) how to create much better player movement and open shots on O. So, whomever can do those things should be here.
I voted CJM, Grant, and Brogdon. I like Brogdon, but would like to see the Cs find more minutes for Pritchard to really see what we have there (although I think he probably gets traded. He would still be behind DW and Smart).
Smart drives me crazy. He giveth and taketh away, but I think overall he's a significant piece on a winning team. Just not your starting PG. I listen to all offers on Jaylen, but I don't see getting comparable current value. I think we are still in GFIN for the next few years. I think the return on a JB trade would be a future or rebuild piece.
Smart drives me crazy. He giveth and taketh away, but I think overall he's a significant piece on a winning team. Just not your starting PG. I listen to all offers on Jaylen, but I don't see getting comparable current value. I think we are still in GFIN for the next few years. I think the return on a JB trade would be a future or rebuild piece.
Brown is going to be too expensive after next year to justify keeping him around. Trade him for a good wing and a big that can start and soak up minutes. Bridges/Claxton sounds good, depending on if it makes sense regarding the new CBA.
Smart is starting to regress, trade him for a better shooter at the wing. White has shown he can handle PG full time, and Point Tatum is a thing now anyway.
Williams is probably gonna cost too much. See what's available for a S&T.
Coaching situation, no idea what to make of it. Joe needs more experience on his staff at least, if he's not gone.
Smart is starting to regress, trade him for a better shooter at the wing. White has shown he can handle PG full time, and Point Tatum is a thing now anyway.
Williams is probably gonna cost too much. See what's available for a S&T.
Coaching situation, no idea what to make of it. Joe needs more experience on his staff at least, if he's not gone.
I voted Joe. I like Joe and I think he'll be a good coach. We just need someone who is better now. If we had a talented rookie on the roster that was a few years away from contributing to a championship team we'd want to trade him for someone that can help this team now. Joe is a talented rookie who is a few years away from being the coach this team needs.
"No one" for me. JB's issues can be mitigated with better coaching, and better coaching can be gotten by hiring some veteran assistants for CJM.
He had the same issues under Brad and he had the same issues under Udoka. I don’t think an assistant coach is going to magically change them although I’ll be thrilled to be proven wrong.
Ditto. I really do think that Smart is not the right 3rd wheel to the Jays at this point in his respective career, and he just doesn't seem like the player they need to push the pace and consistently drain 3's. Grant will be too expensive. I would be OK with moving on from other players (Brogdon, less likely RWill) if they are packaged in with a deal that includes Smart, but they don't reach the "who do you want gone" threshold.
I did not vote for Brown, but given the realities of his contract situation and the CBA, I would not be surprised if Stevens at least listens to the offers from other teams. Of course, I will drive him to the airport if JB declines his supermax offer.
Smart, Grant Williams. I’m agnostic on Mazzulla depending on what else is out there. A fourth head coach in four years seems a mistake, though.
You can certainly listen to offers as any good executive would do, but there are a select few players that I'd consider trading Brown for and those players will not be available. Even with the new CBA, I think signing Brown long-term makes sense. They'll be fine the next 2 years and even after that if those two are 60% of the cap I think that's better than the alternative.
I cant answer without way more info. I don’t as a default want CJM fired but I don’t want status quo bias entering the chat. They should only “re-hire” him if they think he is the best. He left a lot to be desired.
I’ll get rid of anyone besides Tatum if the return is right. I’ve never been as high on Brown as many here but I’m not as low as a lot of the rhetoric I’m reading today. He is a nice Robin. After Brown and Tatum it’s case by case. I love Rob but Rob is hurt all the time. Healthy Rob would be untouchable for me.
I’ll get rid of anyone besides Tatum if the return is right. I’ve never been as high on Brown as many here but I’m not as low as a lot of the rhetoric I’m reading today. He is a nice Robin. After Brown and Tatum it’s case by case. I love Rob but Rob is hurt all the time. Healthy Rob would be untouchable for me.
I agree to a point -- I think continuity is undervalued. But, if the timing of the Ime situation painted them into a corner and they ended up with someone they know isn't the right guy, you have to make the move now.
For what little it's worth, my suspicion has always been that they see something in him, and that's why the trusted him with a team that was top tier contender.
I went Smart & Grant, which I think overall is the "safest" option here.
Grant maybe stays on a tiny contract, he isn't getting anything close to what he was seeking in RFA.
Grant maybe stays on a tiny contract, he isn't getting anything close to what he was seeking in RFA.
I voted only Grant. His position is the one that most needs upgrading (with either a 3rd real big, or reliable 3 and D guy), and I think the rest, with more time, can get to a point to take them over the top.
I don't want anyone gone in a vacuum for no or poor return. I know that getting rid of JB would create a lot more work for Tatum next season. Whom can the Celtics get in return that will basically take things over and put up 40 to win on a Tatum "maintenance" night. You can talk me into Smart, Grant or Brogdon, again depending on the return. If the Cs were pulling undrafted guys out of their keister to put up 15-20 points like the Heat seem to, I'd be more bullish on shuttling a handful of players out to work on a better fitting roster.
Both of these things make sense, and I’m certainly less informed than most here on them.
I don’t assume this either. JB is not out there facilitating for Tatum in a way others couldn’t. Optimally, which I don’t think is possible, you would like a player of Browns caliber that could relieve some of Tatum’s offensive effort and punish teams that trap and double him.
Probably no one, but if anyone, Grant.
I like having Smart on this team, but I want his role and White’s role/minutes to be exchanged.
I like having Smart on this team, but I want his role and White’s role/minutes to be exchanged.
I think what they saw in him was the only option that provided any continuity. It was a small window of time to replace Ime and he was next man up.
I don't disagree it's a bad look to go through 4 coaches in 4 season, but its a pretty unusual situation. First guy got promoted, second guy flaked out, third guy was a placeholder.
I'm curious on who the "Joe gotta go" crowd want to replace him. Only guy I felt had a case to be clearly better already signed.
Joe made mistakes, they were magnified because he was a rookie head coach, but I think he bounced back pretty well. All the vets out there are guys who also make mistakes, that's one of the reasons they are available.
Joe made mistakes, they were magnified because he was a rookie head coach, but I think he bounced back pretty well. All the vets out there are guys who also make mistakes, that's one of the reasons they are available.
Voted Joe, Marcus and Grant, but as many above have said, it depends.
Joe- Brad and company know more than I do. If they think he's the right guy, fine, but get him some quality assistant coaches. Joe is slow to make adjustments and couldn't figure out how to get his offense good looks against an undersized zone defense for 7 games in the ECF. He needs help.
Marcus- Out of Marcus/White/Brogdon, one has to go and I think Marcus is the guy. White has turned himself into a dependable two way guy, Brogdon was a great 6th man and will likely need surgery in the offseason, so unless someone blows you away with a deal for Derrick White, I think you explore what kind of big man/wing you can get for Marcus.
Grant- Decent player, tries hard. But if they aren't going to play him in the playoffs, do the C's really want to pay him what he's about to make? Give his minutes to the better shooting Gallinari and get something back in a S&T.
JB- I think they'll be listening on what's out there, but ultimately bring him back and get a long term deal worked out. None of the deals I've seen thrown around on the internet so far have interested me.
Joe- Brad and company know more than I do. If they think he's the right guy, fine, but get him some quality assistant coaches. Joe is slow to make adjustments and couldn't figure out how to get his offense good looks against an undersized zone defense for 7 games in the ECF. He needs help.
Marcus- Out of Marcus/White/Brogdon, one has to go and I think Marcus is the guy. White has turned himself into a dependable two way guy, Brogdon was a great 6th man and will likely need surgery in the offseason, so unless someone blows you away with a deal for Derrick White, I think you explore what kind of big man/wing you can get for Marcus.
Grant- Decent player, tries hard. But if they aren't going to play him in the playoffs, do the C's really want to pay him what he's about to make? Give his minutes to the better shooting Gallinari and get something back in a S&T.
JB- I think they'll be listening on what's out there, but ultimately bring him back and get a long term deal worked out. None of the deals I've seen thrown around on the internet so far have interested me.
I wanted Nurse but that’s coming from a guy that follows one team. Brad should know the options way better than I do and he is a rational dude. I don’t think the coach matters that much in most cases. I think CJM seems way out of his element. Does he strike me as a leader? No. Does he come across as very smart? No. Do puff pieces show me, oh he is actually the guy against appearances? No. Did the opposition ever looked surprised by what we did? No. Did any player surprise to the upside? No. So instead of me trying to look for bad things, I’m going to be neutral and let someone tell me what he did that was good. If Tatum doesn’t bust his ankle we might have won the game so even though I’m not enamored with the coach it’s not like we can’t win with him. This isn’t the NFL.
Voted "no one", but the truth is it's really cap-dependent. I have a hard time thinking we'll find someone better than Grant in Grant's role for anything close to reasonable money, but his price tag (I'd expect $12-15) is going to make him uneconomical to keep on the roster. There aren't a lot of body types who can reasonably guard 1-5, so even if he's not some 7-footer prototype center, he has value as a center who can pull his opposing number out of the paint by hitting 3s, and can guard all but the biggest 5s. If we were to replace him with a bigger version of himself, someone who can help keep Al to more time at the 4, I'd take a risk on a younger, cheaper player we thought might develop. But that's a lot of "ifs", when the risks of just keeping him around aren't all that bad, luxury tax aside.
Brogdon makes a lot of money ($22.5 each of the next two seasons, guaranteed) for someone who can't really fit in our defensive scheme in the playoffs. He's a great way to soak up minutes in the regular season, or pile up points against a weaker playoff opponent, but in real crunch time, it feels like his salary slot isn't being used as best as it could be. And he's 30, it's not like we can put him on an offseason program for agility and expect he's going to suddenly develop better lateral quickness. But he's a fairly safe pair of hands who can take over starting duties for long periods of the regular season, and on a team with Marcus Smart that has more value than in many other circumstances.
"Want them gone" is a knee-jerk reaction. I was supremely frustrated with Jaylen Brown last night, but I've also seen him win games by himself and he was clearly an impact player vs peer teams (Philly and Miami), so the question is really context-dependent: how much more restricted would we be if we give him the supermax? What flexibility would we lose, and what are the plausible alternatives? I can't answer a yes or no without knowing the possibilities.
Like, Damian Lillard turns 33 in a few days and makes $46, $49, $59 and $63 the next 4 years. You could probably trade Jaylen for him, but... why would you want to? Would you want to max Siakam instead? Assets like Jaylen Brown don't grow on trees, and the ones you can buy with near-equal contracts are usually bigger stinkers than his will be. Like, would we want Tobias Harris at $39M next year? I'd much rather pay Jaylen that. Now, would I prefer Jaylen Brown over a random wheel-of-fortune spin of all-NBA players? Maybe not, but they're not available. How about all-NBA swingmen? all-star swingmen? You start talking about a handful of players in the league who can replace his role. And, like, Donovan Mitchell isn't available. Much easier, I think, to bet that Jaylen can work on some of his issues. He's already a primary scorer who's so big and strong he can credibly guard 1-5 and has no obvious weaknesses statistically. Those of us who watch him every play of every game know his weaknesses (with ball security on drives, or efficiency of shot selection, etc). But I'm left with a strong feeling that the grass isn't greener, and anyone we got to replace his role would have warts that dwarf his.
Brogdon makes a lot of money ($22.5 each of the next two seasons, guaranteed) for someone who can't really fit in our defensive scheme in the playoffs. He's a great way to soak up minutes in the regular season, or pile up points against a weaker playoff opponent, but in real crunch time, it feels like his salary slot isn't being used as best as it could be. And he's 30, it's not like we can put him on an offseason program for agility and expect he's going to suddenly develop better lateral quickness. But he's a fairly safe pair of hands who can take over starting duties for long periods of the regular season, and on a team with Marcus Smart that has more value than in many other circumstances.
"Want them gone" is a knee-jerk reaction. I was supremely frustrated with Jaylen Brown last night, but I've also seen him win games by himself and he was clearly an impact player vs peer teams (Philly and Miami), so the question is really context-dependent: how much more restricted would we be if we give him the supermax? What flexibility would we lose, and what are the plausible alternatives? I can't answer a yes or no without knowing the possibilities.
Like, Damian Lillard turns 33 in a few days and makes $46, $49, $59 and $63 the next 4 years. You could probably trade Jaylen for him, but... why would you want to? Would you want to max Siakam instead? Assets like Jaylen Brown don't grow on trees, and the ones you can buy with near-equal contracts are usually bigger stinkers than his will be. Like, would we want Tobias Harris at $39M next year? I'd much rather pay Jaylen that. Now, would I prefer Jaylen Brown over a random wheel-of-fortune spin of all-NBA players? Maybe not, but they're not available. How about all-NBA swingmen? all-star swingmen? You start talking about a handful of players in the league who can replace his role. And, like, Donovan Mitchell isn't available. Much easier, I think, to bet that Jaylen can work on some of his issues. He's already a primary scorer who's so big and strong he can credibly guard 1-5 and has no obvious weaknesses statistically. Those of us who watch him every play of every game know his weaknesses (with ball security on drives, or efficiency of shot selection, etc). But I'm left with a strong feeling that the grass isn't greener, and anyone we got to replace his role would have warts that dwarf his.
1. Grant goes because of cost & conditioning (he looked slow all season & maybe a reason CJM benched him).
His minutes are replaced by Hauser and a cheap backup/defense first BIG. CJM can then go more situational
2. Move Pritchard+ for that cheap backup/defense first BIG (maybe use Grant as a S&T)
3. Offer Brown 5yrs/$250MM with the idea of trading him next season when JT gets the Super Max. If he feels insulted by NO MAX (he probably will) build a trade around Bridges/Claxton, or Garland/Allen, or Bane+ or JJJ+, or OG/Poeltl orVassell/Keldon Johnson (not interested in these two or KAT or Ingram)
I believe we've entered the 1 Super Max Player/Team Era. That's Jayson Tatum for the Celtics. Jaylen making 2nd Team All-NBA feels like his high water mark. He's an A+ scorer but a below-average 3pt shooter, a poor ball-handler (TO prone), average BBall IQ, and an average defender. As a Super Max $60MM/year player he'd be under the Boston Sports microscope & that's not a good place for Brown.
I'll add one personal note, I didn't like the Kyrie/Kanye/Anti-Semitic stuff, and frankly that smoke is enough for me not to want the Celtics to pay any NBA player $300MM (I'd feel the same way about JT)... Selling high is probably the best move.
4. CJM stays. Brad & Joe fill out the staff with vets coaches + a defensive guru coach.
5. Brogdon stay's as a bench sniper.
6. Derrick White is the starting PG
7. Not sure what to make of Smart other than he was injured for a good portion of the season. If I'm right about the injuries piling up no reason to sell low.
8. Use the draft to take high-floor, upperclassmen
9. Some emphasis on Maine & G-League, make that a development machine for future bench players
10. Bring Blake back on a vet min
His minutes are replaced by Hauser and a cheap backup/defense first BIG. CJM can then go more situational
2. Move Pritchard+ for that cheap backup/defense first BIG (maybe use Grant as a S&T)
3. Offer Brown 5yrs/$250MM with the idea of trading him next season when JT gets the Super Max. If he feels insulted by NO MAX (he probably will) build a trade around Bridges/Claxton, or Garland/Allen, or Bane+ or JJJ+, or OG/Poeltl or
I believe we've entered the 1 Super Max Player/Team Era. That's Jayson Tatum for the Celtics. Jaylen making 2nd Team All-NBA feels like his high water mark. He's an A+ scorer but a below-average 3pt shooter, a poor ball-handler (TO prone), average BBall IQ, and an average defender. As a Super Max $60MM/year player he'd be under the Boston Sports microscope & that's not a good place for Brown.
I'll add one personal note, I didn't like the Kyrie/Kanye/Anti-Semitic stuff, and frankly that smoke is enough for me not to want the Celtics to pay any NBA player $300MM (I'd feel the same way about JT)... Selling high is probably the best move.
4. CJM stays. Brad & Joe fill out the staff with vets coaches + a defensive guru coach.
5. Brogdon stay's as a bench sniper.
6. Derrick White is the starting PG
7. Not sure what to make of Smart other than he was injured for a good portion of the season. If I'm right about the injuries piling up no reason to sell low.
8. Use the draft to take high-floor, upperclassmen
9. Some emphasis on Maine & G-League, make that a development machine for future bench players
10. Bring Blake back on a vet min
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I voted Smart. White deserves to be the point guard. Even if you can't get equal value for Smart, just get off the contract. Thank you for everything Marcus but it's time.
I'm 50/50 on Mazzula. I think Tatum likes and trusts him which matters a lot. And I think a real coaching staff will help. That plus an offseason to assess what went wrong and how to change it up.
Everyone besides Tatum and White is potentially available, but I'm not optimistic that there's a trade out there that makes sense.
I'm sick of JB, but I don't see a trade this year that makes you a better team. The team who trades for him wouldn't be able to sign him to a super-max, right? So at that point, why wouldn't Jaylen test free agency? Seems like way too much risk for another team to give up real assets for him. And even if you could get something like #3 + Anfernee Simons, that is a massive step backwards unless you have another trade lined up. Give him the max and maybe in a year or two you find a trade that makes sense before Tatum's extension kicks in if it's still not working.
I'd keep Grant Williams on a reasonable extension. If he's making around Al Horford money, like $10 - $12M per year, sure match it. If we get to the $15M per year range, good bye. Basically, stay under the second tax apron for next year so that you're not in the repeater when Brown's extension kicks in.
Brogdon should stay. $22.5M is a lot for a 6th man but he's exactly what we need and there is no way we can replace his production because no one is giving a real asset for the contract. I don't care about the defense. 15/4/3.5 on 44% from 3 in the 14 postseason games before he hurt his elbow. We could be talking about the Finals now if he was healthy.
Keep Horford, White, TimeLord. Their contracts are values and they're not easily replaceable.
Oh and bring back Gallo.
I'm 50/50 on Mazzula. I think Tatum likes and trusts him which matters a lot. And I think a real coaching staff will help. That plus an offseason to assess what went wrong and how to change it up.
Everyone besides Tatum and White is potentially available, but I'm not optimistic that there's a trade out there that makes sense.
I'm sick of JB, but I don't see a trade this year that makes you a better team. The team who trades for him wouldn't be able to sign him to a super-max, right? So at that point, why wouldn't Jaylen test free agency? Seems like way too much risk for another team to give up real assets for him. And even if you could get something like #3 + Anfernee Simons, that is a massive step backwards unless you have another trade lined up. Give him the max and maybe in a year or two you find a trade that makes sense before Tatum's extension kicks in if it's still not working.
I'd keep Grant Williams on a reasonable extension. If he's making around Al Horford money, like $10 - $12M per year, sure match it. If we get to the $15M per year range, good bye. Basically, stay under the second tax apron for next year so that you're not in the repeater when Brown's extension kicks in.
Brogdon should stay. $22.5M is a lot for a 6th man but he's exactly what we need and there is no way we can replace his production because no one is giving a real asset for the contract. I don't care about the defense. 15/4/3.5 on 44% from 3 in the 14 postseason games before he hurt his elbow. We could be talking about the Finals now if he was healthy.
Keep Horford, White, TimeLord. Their contracts are values and they're not easily replaceable.
Oh and bring back Gallo.
This is where I am. I don't "want" any of them gone as a knee-jerk reaction, but certainly would explore moves to improve the team. I don't know what Grant will command on the open market. His value, such as it is, is to competitors and those teams have the same cap headaches we do. I'd make the qualifying offer and see what happens. I really worry that we've seen the best we're going to out of Brogdon (and what we saw wasn't as good as I thought it would be to begin with). I would not mind getting off that contract, but we'd probably need to staple a future pick to him to do that and that seems inadvisable - as always, I suppose it depends on the return. I'm skeptical that there is a meaningful return for Smart out there, for better or for worse.
I think JB is an excellent second banana to JT, but that doesn't mean he should fill JT's role as running the offense when JT sits.
IMO, JB should be fed the ball (by others) where he can do the most damage; he should not be running the offense, bringing the ball up, etc.
Smart and White do a pretty good job of this, but both suffer when they have to be the top dog. I think most of us thought Brunson could be this guy, and he seemed to be such for the first part of the season. But at some point, he devolved into a bit of a black hole with the ball.
IMO, JB should be fed the ball (by others) where he can do the most damage; he should not be running the offense, bringing the ball up, etc.
Smart and White do a pretty good job of this, but both suffer when they have to be the top dog. I think most of us thought Brunson could be this guy, and he seemed to be such for the first part of the season. But at some point, he devolved into a bit of a black hole with the ball.
Honestly CJM has to go. Voted for him only. I get the circumstances under which he was hired but he's a complete embarrassment. This is the Celtics, they need and deserve someone better.
I do think that Jaylen proved he is a Robin and paying him Batman money makes no sense in the new CBA. Horford needs to play less but should stay. Smart and Grant could also go and I wouldn't be sad to see them exit.
Mostly the new CBA is the key guiding post to the direction of the team but for me option one is that they need a real coach.
I do think that Jaylen proved he is a Robin and paying him Batman money makes no sense in the new CBA. Horford needs to play less but should stay. Smart and Grant could also go and I wouldn't be sad to see them exit.
Mostly the new CBA is the key guiding post to the direction of the team but for me option one is that they need a real coach.
I think Brogdon and White can run the offense but the Celtics will never be able to make that switch as long as Smart is on the roster. Whether it’s Mazzula, Smart himself, his teammates, or a combination of all three, he simply won’t ever play that way. That’s why I think Smart needs to go even if you don’t get anything approaching equal value.
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Also Brad. It's hard to bench a guy who has been the biggest personality on the team for years, a lot harder when your boss is constantly talking about how he's the heart of the team and how much he loves him. If Brad isn't going to say "he's my dog, I'll do it" then Marcus is going to start and close games.
CJM: A lot of folks here (myself included) keep saying, "Just give him good assistants." But it's finally dawned on me: HE WON'T LISTEN TO THEM. He's stubborn. Attitudinal when questioned by the media. I don't know if he's insecure or overconfident, but I think he'll feel threatened rather than supported. So fuck him. Fourth HC in four years is NOT good. But it's still better than keeping Mazzulla.
Brown: I've heard enough about the new CBA to ask myself the central question, can the Celts win it all with Tatum/Brown/filler? I don't think they can. So that leaves Brad with an unenviable choice: offer Brown less than the max (Brown will reject it and Brad will be forced to trade him), or give Brown the max, hamstringing the team under the new CBA (and maybe seeing Brown ask out long before he gets to the end of the contract). I'd rather trade him. Especially in this moment, where I'd like nothing more than to have a moment to talk to Brown and say, "Fuck you and driving into the teeth of the defense with your horrible handle and your deep threes last night, what the fuck, dude?" But I'm tired from driving home from the game at 1am last night and am just fucking bitter because I watched my son deflate in front of my eyes as he realized that the season was going down in flames.
Smart: Give the starting job to D. White -- he's better now and moving forward. Smart will not want to be a back-up, and an angry smart is a stupid Smart. So get what you can for him.
Brogdon: If you can't play defense, then you can be the 6th man for someone else. Great piece for the regular season, but shyte in the playoffs. Yeah, he was hurt, but that had nothing to do with his remarkable inability to stay in front of his man.
Grant: Is going to want far more money than he's worth. Fuck him. Go chirp at the refs for whatever team gives you an offer sheet, kid.
*****
Build around Tatum, D. White, Timelord. Keep Horford as a veteran presence if he wants to stay/the price is right. That's it.
*****
Of course, what I would do in this emotional moment and what the Boston front office will do are VASTLY different. As they should be.
I fully expect Brad to give Joe some assistants (good fucking luck), offer Jaylen the supermax (because Tatum will want him to), and keep the various salary slots (which means Grant gets signed -- maybe as part of a sign & trade). They're gonna run it back. Which is insanity, but hey, they know a lot more than me. I'm just a dude that's pissed and tired and angry and sick of this team doing the same stupid shit over and over and over again.
Brown: I've heard enough about the new CBA to ask myself the central question, can the Celts win it all with Tatum/Brown/filler? I don't think they can. So that leaves Brad with an unenviable choice: offer Brown less than the max (Brown will reject it and Brad will be forced to trade him), or give Brown the max, hamstringing the team under the new CBA (and maybe seeing Brown ask out long before he gets to the end of the contract). I'd rather trade him. Especially in this moment, where I'd like nothing more than to have a moment to talk to Brown and say, "Fuck you and driving into the teeth of the defense with your horrible handle and your deep threes last night, what the fuck, dude?" But I'm tired from driving home from the game at 1am last night and am just fucking bitter because I watched my son deflate in front of my eyes as he realized that the season was going down in flames.
Smart: Give the starting job to D. White -- he's better now and moving forward. Smart will not want to be a back-up, and an angry smart is a stupid Smart. So get what you can for him.
Brogdon: If you can't play defense, then you can be the 6th man for someone else. Great piece for the regular season, but shyte in the playoffs. Yeah, he was hurt, but that had nothing to do with his remarkable inability to stay in front of his man.
Grant: Is going to want far more money than he's worth. Fuck him. Go chirp at the refs for whatever team gives you an offer sheet, kid.
*****
Build around Tatum, D. White, Timelord. Keep Horford as a veteran presence if he wants to stay/the price is right. That's it.
*****
Of course, what I would do in this emotional moment and what the Boston front office will do are VASTLY different. As they should be.
I fully expect Brad to give Joe some assistants (good fucking luck), offer Jaylen the supermax (because Tatum will want him to), and keep the various salary slots (which means Grant gets signed -- maybe as part of a sign & trade). They're gonna run it back. Which is insanity, but hey, they know a lot more than me. I'm just a dude that's pissed and tired and angry and sick of this team doing the same stupid shit over and over and over again.
I don't think you can make this argument unless you can name someone specific they should be targeting. If it's one of the established names out there - guess what, none of those guys have an amazing playoffs record either recently, often with almost as good if not equally talented teams. And if it's an up-and-comer, assistant type (think Sam Cassel), what makes you think that person would adapt any quicker to being a head coach than Mazzula has/hasn't?
Honestly once someone goes with "he's an embarrassment" you know they aren't approaching it from anything but emotion. He's a coach who made some good moves, made some bad moves, adjusted to criticism and moved on, he is not the bumbling idiot people made out after game 3, nor was he kicking Spoelsta's ass like people were arguing during game 6... he's just a decently mediocre NBA coach, and for a rookie I'd take that over a guy who has been mediocre for many years, or who is another assistant who would need to learn on the job, which is all you're hiring. Pop ain't leaving SA, Spo isn't leaving MIA.
I voted for Brown but it really depends on the return. I don't think Tatum + Brown works correctly because Brown also wants to be the alpha, and Tatum is somewhat passive about it, at least at times. I am also personally frustrated, and this has grown over time, by the possessions in which Brown is the only one that touches the ball. He's not going to stop doing that. He needs to stop doing that. But back to the start, I don't know that there's any reasonable return for Brown.
This is going to be Tatum's team for the next decade, I think (and hope). If I were Stevens I'd sit down one-on-one with Tatum and ask if he wants Mazzulla to return. The Celtics should put at least 50% of the decision weight on solely Tatum's opinion. That's the kind of league this is, and I don't want to sit through another year with a new coach if Tatum thinks Mazzulla can make this work. Stability has its benefits.
One player not named in the poll that I would have selected is Pritchard. I think two things are true about Pritchard this year: He's been poorly deployed. He's played poorly in most deployments. Give him a chance to have a bigger role somewhere else.
This is going to be Tatum's team for the next decade, I think (and hope). If I were Stevens I'd sit down one-on-one with Tatum and ask if he wants Mazzulla to return. The Celtics should put at least 50% of the decision weight on solely Tatum's opinion. That's the kind of league this is, and I don't want to sit through another year with a new coach if Tatum thinks Mazzulla can make this work. Stability has its benefits.
One player not named in the poll that I would have selected is Pritchard. I think two things are true about Pritchard this year: He's been poorly deployed. He's played poorly in most deployments. Give him a chance to have a bigger role somewhere else.
I like PP, and imagine there are teams where he'd play a more consistent role, but defensively he really is a tough fit for Cs who like to switch and value length more than most. On a different team he's maybe a 20ish minute a game guy, and in the playoff rotation. On a bad team he might even be more minutes/production wise (but, more of a good stats/bad team type just becuase of his limtations). I just don't think the Celts are going to trust him and thus, they should try to get value for him while they can. Bums me out a bit as I see talent there, but I also acknowledge some real limitations---he's neither defensively versatile nor all that good a distributor.
I guess the most optimistic view would be "why can't he be a better-shooting Gabe Vincent" and my answer unfortunately is "two inches and some weight make a big difference"
I guess the most optimistic view would be "why can't he be a better-shooting Gabe Vincent" and my answer unfortunately is "two inches and some weight make a big difference"
Not a bad primer. They are saying league-wide Grant's price is $12-14MM which is much better than last summer's rumors
https://hoopshype.com/lists/celtics-offseason-primer-jaylen-browns-future-grant-williams-more/
https://hoopshype.com/lists/celtics-offseason-primer-jaylen-browns-future-grant-williams-more/
The honest truth is no one, assuming that the players themselves want to remain.
I think one of the concerns with this team is that they are carrying a lot of injury-prone guys as their role players and they got pretty lucky this year, health-wise. Brogdon played his most games (obviously in a different role) since his rookie season and then was ineffective this last series due to injury. Smart had a median year, games-wise, but looked slow/hobbled for much of the season and playoffs. Then there's the two bigs. Horford has been great, but he's not timeless, and Timelord never seemed quite himself and may never again.
Given where the Celtics are with their roster they can't easily add more backups. Even with limitless money very few decent players are going to willingly go into a situation where they are the >9th man in the rotation. They may need to consolidate a few guys.
Obviously you listen to offers on everyone but Tatum. I don't think they'll get what they want. But moving off Brogdon might not be the worst idea, given his salary, age, and injury. Of course other teams see that too.
I think one of the concerns with this team is that they are carrying a lot of injury-prone guys as their role players and they got pretty lucky this year, health-wise. Brogdon played his most games (obviously in a different role) since his rookie season and then was ineffective this last series due to injury. Smart had a median year, games-wise, but looked slow/hobbled for much of the season and playoffs. Then there's the two bigs. Horford has been great, but he's not timeless, and Timelord never seemed quite himself and may never again.
Given where the Celtics are with their roster they can't easily add more backups. Even with limitless money very few decent players are going to willingly go into a situation where they are the >9th man in the rotation. They may need to consolidate a few guys.
Obviously you listen to offers on everyone but Tatum. I don't think they'll get what they want. But moving off Brogdon might not be the worst idea, given his salary, age, and injury. Of course other teams see that too.