The Sam is dead, long live the Sam: new starting LB Elandon Roberts

[Shelterdog]

Collins is gone--and apparently Elandon Roberts is first in line to replace his snaps. What has everyone seen? Any thoughts on whether he can survive in passing siutations? Any thoughts on whether this guy can actually play? Is he a Zach Thomas (small, fast, productive player drafted late and instantly showing he can play on the next level) or is he just a Deontae Skinner type young player filling a role only to be quickly replaced.

Here's a hype video FWIW.

 

[Valek123]

He plays fast, decisive and seems to always be working with Hightower to allow one of them to blow up a RB. Was unsure how all three would coexist, and now that isn't a problem. The day of the Roberts is here.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

A look back at his NFL.com draft profile suggests we should have seen something coming, at least in terms of fit:

STRENGTHS
A coach's dream. Tremendous leader on the field and off. Worked all offseason to loosen his hips and improve his flexibility. Loves to hit and has a nose for the ball. Instinctive with an uncanny ability to consistently sniff out the best path to the ball.

BOTTOM LINE
His head coach calls Roberts one of the best leaders he's ever been around and raves about his work ethic and passion for the game. Despite his athletic limitations, Roberts posted outstanding tackle production and was a commanding presence in the box

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/elandon-roberts?id=2556119

Of course, he also has a lack of speed and other issues which explains why he fell to the sixth (and was projected 7th or FA).

 

[Shelterdog]

A look back at his NFL.com draft profile suggests we should have seen something coming, at least in terms of fit:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/elandon-roberts?id=2556119

Of course, he also has a lack of speed and other issues which explains why he fell to the sixth (and was projected 7th or FA).

He looks pretty fast to me. A couple of articles have him at a 4.49 on his pro day -- others at 4.60 which isn't terrible either.
http://blog.masslive.com/patriots/2016/10/elandon_roberts_patriots_nfl_b.html

I'm worried about his durability at that size playing that violently but it's fun while it's lasting.

 

[bakahump]

According to the NFL Draft Site
Roberts 40 4.6 (PRO DAY Numbers)
Collins 40 4.64
Though Collins did have an elite 10 yard split (1.58 to Roberts 1.67...so Roberts with the surprising faster "long Speed")

Obviously Collins also did his at 15lbs and 3 inches bigger

Collins also was more explosive in Broad and Vert (we shoulda had this guy blocking FGs LOL) and slighly faster in the 3 cone drill (7.10 to Roberts 7.23)
Roberts was actually stronger (25 > 19) in the BP and quicker in the 20 yard Shuttle (4.29 > 4.32.. For Reference Mayo was 4.29) which is neck and neck with the 3 cone as a "real indicator of football agility".

While not a "freak" like Collins ( or Kuechly or a young Mayo), Roberts is pretty close. Mix in what is obviously some great instincts and he could be a star that makes us forget about Collins in the not to distant future.

His size isnt so bad as he was listed at 235 (probably plays 5-10 less then that and with probably little to no room to really add) Mayo came in at 230 (but eventually added) and Buchannon for example plays MLB at 215. Sam Mills was a "Short" (5'9 so much more so then Roberts) 230lb LB who had a really good career. Mike Singletary (granted the game was different) was 5'11 and Ray Lewis was 6'1. So with decent measurables and great instincts there is no reason that Roberts cant be a 5+ year starter type player with a pro bowl on the resume.

 

[Al Zarilla]

According to the NFL Draft Site
Roberts 40 4.6 (PRO DAY Numbers)
Collins 40 4.64
Though Collins did have an elite 10 yard split (1.58 to Roberts 1.67...so Roberts with the surprising faster "long Speed")

Obviously Collins also did his at 15lbs and 3 inches bigger

Collins also was more explosive in Broad and Vert (we shoulda had this guy blocking FGs LOL) and slighly faster in the 3 cone drill (7.10 to Roberts 7.23)
Roberts was actually stronger (25 > 19) in the BP and quicker in the 20 yard Shuttle (4.29 > 4.32.. For Reference Mayo was 4.29) which is neck and neck with the 3 cone as a "real indicator of football agility".

While not a "freak" like Collins ( or Kuechly or a young Mayo), Roberts is pretty close. Mix in what is obviously some great instincts and he could be a star that makes us forget about Collins in the not to distant future.

His size isnt so bad as he was listed at 235 (probably plays 5-10 less then that and with probably little to no room to really add) Mayo came in at 230 (but eventually added) and Buchannon for example plays MLB at 215. Sam Mills was a "Short" (5'9 so much more so then Roberts) 230lb LB who had a really good career. Mike Singletary (granted the game was different) was 5'11 and Ray Lewis was 6'1. So with decent measurables and great instincts there is no reason that Roberts cant be a 5+ year starter type player with a pro bowl on the resume.

London Fletcher, 5'10, 245. How about Roberts covering the bigger and faster tight ends? Well, he won't have to cover the best one, but Graham, Fleener, Kelce et al may give him trouble. We all laugh when a shorter DB or LB get beat easily by Gronk. I haven't seen much of Roberts. So, how has he been covering people in the passing game?

 

[bakahump]

That doesnt seem to be his job. We have a different short Safety named Chung for that.

 

[weeba]

That hit at 1:24 is great. The RB just disappears.

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

Man, he trucked #70 before making a leaping tackle here:

Per: great read at http://www.patspropaganda.com/patriots-film-review-defense-edition/

 

[tims4wins]

Thanks for linking, I just posted in the midseason goats / game balls thread that Nink and Sheard have been awful, this guy seems to think so too

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

My (optimistic) prediction: he'll be the next Butler on D. Small school, overlooked, not an athletic freak, but plays with a chip and competes on every play.

 

[mauf]

According to the NFL Draft Site
Roberts 40 4.6 (PRO DAY Numbers)
Collins 40 4.64
Though Collins did have an elite 10 yard split (1.58 to Roberts 1.67...so Roberts with the surprising faster "long Speed")

Obviously Collins also did his at 15lbs and 3 inches bigger

Collins also was more explosive in Broad and Vert (we shoulda had this guy blocking FGs LOL) and slighly faster in the 3 cone drill (7.10 to Roberts 7.23)
Roberts was actually stronger (25 > 19) in the BP and quicker in the 20 yard Shuttle (4.29 > 4.32.. For Reference Mayo was 4.29) which is neck and neck with the 3 cone as a "real indicator of football agility".

While not a "freak" like Collins ( or Kuechly or a young Mayo), Roberts is pretty close. Mix in what is obviously some great instincts and he could be a star that makes us forget about Collins in the not to distant future.

His size isnt so bad as he was listed at 235 (probably plays 5-10 less then that and with probably little to no room to really add) Mayo came in at 230 (but eventually added) and Buchannon for example plays MLB at 215. Sam Mills was a "Short" (5'9 so much more so then Roberts) 230lb LB who had a really good career. Mike Singletary (granted the game was different) was 5'11 and Ray Lewis was 6'1. So with decent measurables and great instincts there is no reason that Roberts cant be a 5+ year starter type player with a pro bowl on the resume.

Ray Lewis was 6-1, 240 and ran a 4.58 at the combine. Granted, he wasn't an OLB, and those numbers were more impressive 20 years ago, but it goes to show that measurables aren't everything -- and to the extent they matter, Roberts is no slouch.

Pretty remarkable that Roberts was as lightly regarded as he was -- sounds like there was nothing but praise for his game film and intangibles, and it's not like he had to switch positions like Bruschi did.

 

[lambeau]

Roberts didn't really play until he was a senior , when he led the country in solo tackles--even BB was puzzled by this.
Vrabel conducted his Pro Day drills--I wonder if he gave somebody a heads-up.

 

[DaubachmanTurnerOD]

Apologies in advance for the off-topic question, but can someone tell me why it matters who the 'Mike' is? You always hear Brady yelling, e.g. "55 is the Mike!" What keys is the offense reading off of that?

(Apologies again - I looked in ITP's glossary and didn't see anything, and this didn't seem threadworthy, so I figured a SAM-related thread was as close as possible...)

 

[dbn]

I assume that someone much more knowledgable than I will answer your question better, but I've always assumed it was so that everyone was on the same page for blocking assignments and the middle guy is a good zero-point to use.

edit: Good of you to do some searching first, but glad you asked the question. There are people around here who know a lot about football and it's great when people ask them questions and we all learn something.

 

[Saints Rest]

Apologies in advance for the off-topic question, but can someone tell me why it matters who the 'Mike' is? You always hear Brady yelling, e.g. "55 is the Mike!" What keys is the offense reading off of that?

(Apologies again - I looked in ITP's glossary and didn't see anything, and this didn't seem threadworthy, so I figured a SAM-related thread was as close as possible...)

I've seen some great articles on this in good depth; but the short version is that it sets the middle of the defense in terms of blocking.

 

[Bowhemian]

Yeah, Mike is the middle linebacker (sets the middle of the defense for blockers).

You won't hear it audibled, but there is a Will (weak side) and Sam (strong side) linebacker (mostly inside linebackers) in some formations. Mike could be either Will or Sam, which is why they call out the mike, to set the middle. In a 3-4 defensive alignment, there are 4 linebackers, usually 2 inside and 2 outside. In non-NFL (like my high school team), the 2 inside backers are Will and Sam, not sure if the same in NFL.

In a 4-3 defensive alignment. there are 3 linebackers. In that case, there is only a Mike, who would be the only inside linebacker, with an outside backer on each side.

I'll let someone smarter explain it better.

 

[SumnerH]

Yeah. Basically your blocking scheme is "X blocks the Mike, Y blocks to the left of the Mike, Z blocks to the right of the Mike". If Brady yells out "23 is the Mike!" then the whole blocking scheme rotates over to reflect that.

http://dearsportsfan.com/2014/10/20/identifying-mike-linebacker-football/

 

[Bowhemian]

Yeah. Basically your blocking scheme is "X blocks the Mike, Y blocks to the left of the Mike, Z blocks to the right of the Mike". If Brady yells out "23 is the Mike!" then the whole blocking scheme rotates over to reflect that.

http://dearsportsfan.com/2014/10/20/identifying-mike-linebacker-football/

That article explains it very well, thanks for posting that.

 

[DaubachmanTurnerOD]

Thank you all very much for the replies. And thank you for the link, Sumner. Very helpful.

Does that help designate the blocks along the line, or is it just for when the blockers get to the second level?

 

[Bowhemian]

Thank you all very much for the replies. And thank you for the link, Sumner. Very helpful.

Does that help designate the blocks along the line, or is it just for when the blockers get to the second level?

It's both.

 

[Super Nomario]

I was just looking at Roberts' playing time patterns. He was a healthy scratch as recently as Week 4. When Hightower missed weeks 2 and 3, Roberts played a grand total of six snaps. Perhaps this means his star has risen incredibly quickly. Or perhaps this means that it won't be Roberts replacing Collins one-for-one but a hodge-podge, with Roberts playing in some situations and Ninkovich / McClellin / Mingo / Van Noy in others.

 

[Super Nomario]

Roberts played only 11 snaps yesterday. LB totals: Hightower 48, McClellin 36, Van Noy 29, Roberts 11, Mingo 10

 

[mwonow]

I guess the Collins trade was more about moving Collins out than moving any particular SAM in

 

[BigJimEd]

This was posted in the game ball thread.
Roberts has allowed 13 completions on 14 targets for 154 yds, 1 TD.

 

[BigSoxFan]

I guess the Collins trade was more about moving Collins out than moving any particular SAM in

Looks like it. Sigh. Roberts ain't ready for a bigger role and the rest are scrap heap filler. Exciting times.

 

[Old Fart Tree]

Yeah, he did not impress in person, but he wasn't on the field that much.

 

[Super Nomario]

Four defensive snaps yesterday for Roberts.

 

[Toe Nash]

He did make a nice run stop for a loss on one of those 4 snaps, for what it's worth.

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

Explanation from Reiss on the snap distribution

LINEBACKER

Dont'a Hightower -- 57

Shea McClellin -- 31

Kyle Van Noy -- 28

Elandon Roberts -- 4

This was a game mostly played with two linebackers, as the Patriots were in their 4-2-5 nickel package for the majority of snaps. McClellin played against some of the Jets’ bigger offensive personnel groupings (e.g. 2-TE package), and Van Noy was tapped in more obvious passing-based groupings. Roberts was the third option in the base defense, making one notable tackle for a loss, as the Patriots only played with three linebackers on the field for four snaps.

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

RBs who can split side versus Van Noy (or any other LB) look like an obvious weakness. Spiller let us off the hook with that big drop and Prosise killed us.

 

[Stitch01]

The LB group trying to cover the White/Lewis pony combo in practice must be fun.