The Ringer

Senator Donut

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The Ringer's wrestling content is extremely bad. I can't believe people listen to Peter Rosenberg and the Cheap Heat pod and think that is good content that should be promoted on the site.
Have you read/listened to their college sports content? That's a big blind spot too.

I don't care for wrestling, but I do listen to David Shoemaker on the Press Box podcast and he ruins every episode he appears on. At this point, I only listen to Bryan Curtis solo shows. The last straw for me was the Weigel/Sonmez Washington Post drama that played out publicly, where Shoemaker seemed to go out of his way to provide the most milquetoast commentary possible. "It's complicated," Shoemaker said as he stammered through some words that proclaimed nothing. I honestly felt bad for him, he sounded like he was lying before congress.
 

Kliq

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Have you read/listened to their college sports content? That's a big blind spot too.

I don't care for wrestling, but I do listen to David Shoemaker on the Press Box podcast and he ruins every episode he appears on. At this point, I only listen to Bryan Curtis solo shows. The last straw for me was the Weigel/Sonmez Washington Post drama that played out publicly, where Shoemaker seemed to go out of his way to provide the most milquetoast commentary possible. "It's complicated," Shoemaker said as he stammered through some words that proclaimed nothing. I honestly felt bad for him, he sounded like he was lying before congress.
My understanding is that Shoemaker is basically the editor for the wrestling content on the site, which explains a lot. Shoemaker has very little credibility within wrestling media and most people in that side of the industry do not take him seriously. He rose to prominence writing obituaries that were well-researched but often missed the mark on any form of analysis, which put him on the radar screen at Grantland and Simmons clearly likes him. He has become Bill's go-to wrestling guy and has worn a lot of hats at The Ringer (I believe he is also the art director) and is seemingly very well liked.

The reason the coverage is so frustrating is because very few mainstream outlets dedicate coverage to pro wrestling (something that is necessary for a notoriously scummy industry to improve) and The Ringer is one of the few outlets that has dedicated a lot of resources to that end; they have articles all the time up on the site and multiple podcasts. The issue is that they hired people with limited knowledge of the industry, and all of the content sucks. There is so much potential there that the company is wasting by dedicating those resources to inept people.

To provide some context; someone told me that Cheap Heat this week was ghastly, so I listened to it. They are reviewing a major wrestling show, and early on Peter Rosenberg (the main host of the show) tells us that he hasn't bothered to watch about half of the show. This does not prevent him from offering (very poor) analysis for 30 minutes. I just can't imagine The Ringer would have someone on a pod to discuss a movie or TV show and have them say that they missed half of the movie/series, and expect that person to have credibility with the audience. I'm shocked someone could be so transparently lazy about their job, and get away with it.
 

Bozo Texino

still hates Dave Kerpen
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The Ringer's wrestling content is extremely bad. I can't believe people listen to Peter Rosenberg and the Cheap Heat pod and think that is good content that should be promoted on the site.
Couldn't agree more.

Shoemaker seems like a really nice guy - I LIKE him. But yeah - there are a million other pro wrestling podcasts out there that are much, much better.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

has fancy plans, and pants to match
Dope
Apr 12, 2001
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My understanding is that Shoemaker is basically the editor for the wrestling content on the site, which explains a lot. Shoemaker has very little credibility within wrestling media and most people in that side of the industry do not take him seriously. He rose to prominence writing obituaries that were well-researched but often missed the mark on any form of analysis, which put him on the radar screen at Grantland and Simmons clearly likes him. He has become Bill's go-to wrestling guy and has worn a lot of hats at The Ringer (I believe he is also the art director) and is seemingly very well liked.
He was the "Masked Man" on Deadspin, right? I enjoyed his articles a lot and actually bought his book, which I thought was pretty decent too. That's too bad to hear that he's sort of regressed a bit.
 

johnmd20

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I have not been the biggest fan of Koppelman on the Rewatchables but he was great on the Misery episode. Big comeback for BK, it was a great listen.

One thing that really resonated with me is how Simmons described the hobbling scene while watching the movie in the theater. I will never forget it, truly a top 10 movie moment for me in the theater, the entire audience was in shock. You didn't know this was going to happen, you didn't have memes or spoilers back then. You were watching a weird movie and then a block of wood and a sledge hammer comes out and WHAM.

It was just pure shock.
 

Marciano490

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Nov 4, 2007
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I have not been the biggest fan of Koppelman on the Rewatchables but he was great on the Misery episode. Big comeback for BK, it was a great listen.

One thing that really resonated with me is how Simmons described the hobbling scene while watching the movie in the theater. I will never forget it, truly a top 10 movie moment for me in the theater, the entire audience was in shock. You didn't know this was going to happen, you didn't have memes or spoilers back then. You were watching a weird movie and then a block of wood and a sledge hammer comes out and WHAM.

It was just pure shock.
I play piano because of that scene. I had to look away and could only hear the moonlight sonata.
 

shlincoln

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One thing that really resonated with me is how Simmons described the hobbling scene while watching the movie in the theater. I will never forget it, truly a top 10 movie moment for me in the theater, the entire audience was in shock. You didn't know this was going to happen, you didn't have memes or spoilers back then. You were watching a weird movie and then a block of wood and a sledge hammer comes out and WHAM.
While I don't really disagree that it was easier to go in cold to a movie back in the day. I would point out that the hobbling was in the trailer.

and the Siskel and Ebert review
 

Vinho Tinto

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Yes, the trailer showed her wind up with the sledgehammer; but it didn't show the blow to the ankle. That is why people in theaters lost their shit. I saw Misery at the old Showcase Cinema in West Springfield. It wasn't just how loud every screamed, but the amount of time it took for the audience to calm down after.
 

CaptainLaddie

dj paul pfieffer
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Sep 6, 2004
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The new 60 songs pod is fantastic. Not only because Sabotage is one of the best songs ever recorded, but because Jane Coaston is awesome. She’s an incredible twitter follow — she’s got a knowledge base that’s ridiculously broad. I’m a little surprised she wasn’t the guest on the NIN pod since she’s a Reznor superfan, but she’s just so good on this one.

And yeah, Sabotage. Fuck, it rocks. I think I’ve played it in the car like twelve times in the past 48 hours.
 

HoyaSoxa

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These last two weeks were both fantastic episodes, and Coaston was the rare guest I stayed around to listen to.

I laughed out loud while walking the dog when Rob got to the end of his long monologue about a band who did not want to be associated with their misogynistic breakthrough hit from the 80s and "Cherry Pie" started to play.
 

8slim

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The new 60 songs pod is fantastic. Not only because Sabotage is one of the best songs ever recorded, but because Jane Coaston is awesome. She’s an incredible twitter follow — she’s got a knowledge base that’s ridiculously broad. I’m a little surprised she wasn’t the guest on the NIN pod since she’s a Reznor superfan, but she’s just so good on this one.

And yeah, Sabotage. Fuck, it rocks. I think I’ve played it in the car like twelve times in the past 48 hours.
I feel like we've said "this one might be his best yet" at least a dozen times already, but this one might be his best yet. The opening is a work of art.

Rob did apologize to Coaston about not having her on for 'Closer', and now I know why.
 

Bongorific

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I just spent a really long time looking for Sabotage videos before realizing there are actually two versions. My buddies and I used to recreate the scene of the dude doing shadow karate in 7th grade home room. When I watched the video today, the scene was missing. Then I started really questioning the validity of my adolescent years.

Finally stumbled on a site showing there was an MTV edit version that took out the knife fight and bridge jump for two of my favorite scenes: karate bro and the car bottoming out after flying over a hill.

Rob really dropped the ball not getting into this.

https://www.movie-censorship.com/report.php?ID=5975631
 

Bozo Texino

still hates Dave Kerpen
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The There Will Be Blood episode of The Rewatchables is great. The perfectly timed "Slow Ride" drop is fucking hilarious.

The new 60 Songs is so fucking great. It's probably his most personal episode in so much as it's him talking about how much he loves The Downward Spiral, and goddamn. That was awesome.
This was the episode I was most looking forward to. The Downward Spiral was a really, really big deal for me. It was the first time I became aware of the importance of texture in music. I'm surprised by how fresh it sounds almost 30 years later.

I'm not a Beastie Boys fan at all - I've probably discussed my overt dislike of them on here before - but the "Sabotage" episode was pretty great, too. I really enjoyed the Warrant switcheroo.

EDIT: Today's episode of 60 Songs That Explain the 90s is pretty out there. Granted, I'll listen to Rob talk about ANYTHING, but still - there are only 18 episodes left, and he still needs to address some heavy hitters.
 

8slim

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The There Will Be Blood episode of The Rewatchables is great. The perfectly timed "Slow Ride" drop is fucking hilarious.



This was the episode I was most looking forward to. The Downward Spiral was a really, really big deal for me. It was the first time I became aware of the importance of texture in music. I'm surprised by how fresh it sounds almost 30 years later.

I'm not a Beastie Boys fan at all - I've probably discussed my overt dislike of them on here before - but the "Sabotage" episode was pretty great, too. I really enjoyed the Warrant switcheroo.

EDIT: Today's episode of 60 Songs That Explain the 90s is pretty out there. Granted, I'll listen to Rob talk about ANYTHING, but still - there are only 18 episodes left, and he still needs to address some heavy hitters.
I have a feeling that there are going to be some very big 90s hits that he doesn't do an episode on. I'm thinking it's purposeful that the show's title is about songs that "explain" the 90s, not songs that were the biggest in the 90s.

*edit* I just looked at the latest episode and I'm not sure I've ever heard that song. At least I don't recognize the title or artist, maybe when I hear it it'll be familiar.
 

Bozo Texino

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I have a feeling that there are going to be some very big 90s hits that he doesn't do an episode on. I'm thinking it's purposeful that the show's title is about songs that "explain" the 90s, not songs that were the biggest in the 90s.

*edit* I just looked at the latest episode and I'm not sure I've ever heard that song. At least I don't recognize the title or artist, maybe when I hear it it'll be familiar.
I mean, yeah - I get the premise of the podcast. But I'm still surprised by some pretty glaring omissions thus far.

The podcast has a serious blind spot for country music. "Achy Breaky Heart" and "Man! I Feel Like a Woman!" have been covered, but that's it. At the very least, I'd hope "Friends in Low Places" and "How Do I Live" will be covered, but I can't help but think Rob won't get to either one. I dunno.

EDIT: Were you an emo kid in the 90s? Then no, you haven't heard that song. It didn't receive any airplay outside of college radio.
 

ManicCompression

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Wow, I'm really surprised he's doing an ep on Sunny Day Real Estate. I hope it's better than the rest of the Ringer's emo content this week.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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Apr 12, 2001
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I just spent a really long time looking for Sabotage videos before realizing there are actually two versions. My buddies and I used to recreate the scene of the dude doing shadow karate in 7th grade home room. When I watched the video today, the scene was missing. Then I started really questioning the validity of my adolescent years.

Finally stumbled on a site showing there was an MTV edit version that took out the knife fight and bridge jump for two of my favorite scenes: karate bro and the car bottoming out after flying over a hill.

Rob really dropped the ball not getting into this.

https://www.movie-censorship.com/report.php?ID=5975631
You nailed it. There was an MTV edit and an unedited one. A long time ago, when DVDs were a thing, I bought a DVD of all of Spike Jonez' directed videos and the unedited Sabotage version was on that. I believe that was the first time* I saw that version and it threw me for a loop too. *Unless it was on the Beastie's Sabotage VHS tape that I had back in the 90s and I'm not remembering that correctly.

The broader point is that back in the 90s, you had to look high and low for violent images.
 

CaptainLaddie

dj paul pfieffer
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Sep 6, 2004
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where the darn libs live
I mean, yeah - I get the premise of the podcast. But I'm still surprised by some pretty glaring omissions thus far.

The podcast has a serious blind spot for country music. "Achy Breaky Heart" and "Man! I Feel Like a Woman!" have been covered, but that's it. At the very least, I'd hope "Friends in Low Places" and "How Do I Live" will be covered, but I can't help but think Rob won't get to either one. I dunno.

EDIT: Were you an emo kid in the 90s? Then no, you haven't heard that song. It didn't receive any airplay outside of college radio.
Garth won't be on the podcast since his music is not on Spotify.
 

johnmd20

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I mean, yeah - I get the premise of the podcast. But I'm still surprised by some pretty glaring omissions thus far.

The podcast has a serious blind spot for country music. "Achy Breaky Heart" and "Man! I Feel Like a Woman!" have been covered, but that's it. At the very least, I'd hope "Friends in Low Places" and "How Do I Live" will be covered, but I can't help but think Rob won't get to either one. I dunno.

EDIT: Were you an emo kid in the 90s? Then no, you haven't heard that song. It didn't receive any airplay outside of college radio.
I agree about the omissions in favor of some relatively obscure stuff. But Harvilla is a music guy.
 

Pablo's TB Lover

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I just spent a really long time looking for Sabotage videos before realizing there are actually two versions. My buddies and I used to recreate the scene of the dude doing shadow karate in 7th grade home room. When I watched the video today, the scene was missing. Then I started really questioning the validity of my adolescent years.

Finally stumbled on a site showing there was an MTV edit version that took out the knife fight and bridge jump for two of my favorite scenes: karate bro and the car bottoming out after flying over a hill.

Rob really dropped the ball not getting into this.

https://www.movie-censorship.com/report.php?ID=5975631
That link has a lot of good information but YIKES at this first sentence:

In 1984, hip hop pioneers The Beasty Boys released one of their most successful tracks ever: Sabotage.
 

nattysez

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Sep 30, 2010
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Wow, I'm really surprised he's doing an ep on Sunny Day Real Estate. I hope it's better than the rest of the Ringer's emo content this week.
Possibly not the thread for it, but I've heard Sunny Day Real Estate discussed more in the past two years than I did when they were a "popular" band. Before recently, I mostly heard their name referenced when mentioning that the Foo Fighters' bassist Nate Mendel was originally in Sunny Day Real Estate.

There seems to be a new emo movement amongst GenZ that's accompanied by a presumption that anyone who followed music in the 90s knew all of these bands. I think people forget how hard it was to discover new music in the 90s compared to today. In 1994-ish, I heard a song on my college radio station that I loved and was pretty sure I'd correctly heard the band name (I think it was Daisy Chainsaw, but I'm not positive). Walked to the record store, paid $17 for the CD, went home and...nope -- the song I liked was nowhere to be found. I sold it back to the record store the next day for like $5 after explaining what had happened and the guy said, "Well, I see you're a Red Sox fan, so I'm sure you're used to disappointment." A lot's changed since then.
 

CaptainLaddie

dj paul pfieffer
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Sep 6, 2004
33,129
where the darn libs live
Possibly not the thread for it, but I've heard Sunny Day Real Estate discussed more in the past two years than I did when they were a "popular" band. Before recently, I mostly heard their name referenced when mentioning that the Foo Fighters' bassist Nate Mendel was originally in Sunny Day Real Estate.

There seems to be a new emo movement amongst GenZ that's accompanied by a presumption that anyone who followed music in the 90s knew all of these bands. I think people forget how hard it was to discover new music in the 90s compared to today. In 1994-ish, I heard a song on my college radio station that I loved and was pretty sure I'd correctly heard the band name (I think it was Daisy Chainsaw, but I'm not positive). Walked to the record store, paid $17 for the CD, went home and...nope -- the song I liked was nowhere to be found. I sold it back to the record store the next day for like $5 after explaining what had happened and the guy said, "Well, I see you're a Red Sox fan, so I'm sure you're used to disappointment." A lot's changed since then.
There is. There's a ton of great pop punk and emo coming out these days, coupled with Olivia Rodrigo's ascendance (let's face it "Sour" is a pop punk album). Couple that with accessibility to the music of the 90s and 00s -- songs like Sugar, We're Goin' Down, Misery Business, Fat Lip, Hands Down, Ocean Avenue all have new lives. Last time I DJ'd I played at a hipster / college / young professional dive bar, and I played all of those songs (plus more) and they all went off huge.
 

ManicCompression

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There is. There's a ton of great pop punk and emo coming out these days, coupled with Olivia Rodrigo's ascendance (let's face it "Sour" is a pop punk album). Couple that with accessibility to the music of the 90s and 00s -- songs like Sugar, We're Goin' Down, Misery Business, Fat Lip, Hands Down, Ocean Avenue all have new lives. Last time I DJ'd I played at a hipster / college / young professional dive bar, and I played all of those songs (plus more) and they all went off huge.
There are a few trends here that I've noticed that may just be me being "not in the know" because, try as I might, I don't keep up with new music as well as I used to:

- It's harder for new bands to form mass audiences because of fractured, algo-infused fandom, so old bands that already reached those heights are experiencing a renaissance. For example, Sunny Day Real Estate is going on a reunion tour. Why now? Probably because they can fill a venue better than most new bands and are thus getting paid more than the other attempts to pull them out of retirement. I feel like every week I encounter some new, shocking band that's reuniting that was never very popular or good, or swore they'd never go on a reunion tour (like Jawbreaker). It's like new music is getting frozen out because of nostalgia (same way in movies).

- I feel like new bands in this space aren't really growing the genre, they're just kind of copying it. When I hear Turnstile or Joyce Manor, I feel kind of like I'm listening to a cover band, so why not just listen to Texas is the Reason or Lifetime and hear the better version? It sounds like Gus Van Zant's version of Psycho sometimes.

I'm admittedly biased here and I'm going to be "that old guy" but there's something inherently DIY and raw about the genre and I hope that Gen Z does something more with that than the capitalized version of the music that wasn't super interesting.
 

CaptainLaddie

dj paul pfieffer
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Sep 6, 2004
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where the darn libs live
There are a few trends here that I've noticed that may just be me being "not in the know" because, try as I might, I don't keep up with new music as well as I used to:

- It's harder for new bands to form mass audiences because of fractured, algo-infused fandom, so old bands that already reached those heights are experiencing a renaissance. For example, Sunny Day Real Estate is going on a reunion tour. Why now? Probably because they can fill a venue better than most new bands and are thus getting paid more than the other attempts to pull them out of retirement. I feel like every week I encounter some new, shocking band that's reuniting that was never very popular or good, or swore they'd never go on a reunion tour (like Jawbreaker). It's like new music is getting frozen out because of nostalgia (same way in movies).

- I feel like new bands in this space aren't really growing the genre, they're just kind of copying it. When I hear Turnstile or Joyce Manor, I feel kind of like I'm listening to a cover band, so why not just listen to Texas is the Reason or Lifetime and hear the better version? It sounds like Gus Van Zant's version of Psycho sometimes.

I'm admittedly biased here and I'm going to be "that old guy" but there's something inherently DIY and raw about the genre and I hope that Gen Z does something more with that than the capitalized version of the music that wasn't super interesting.
I agree that they're kind of copying it, but there's still some great stuff being made. (As an aside, I saw someone tweet that Turnstile is just Foo Fighters for cool people, and I can't unread that.)

You might like this article: https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/i-made-a-linguistics-professor-listen-to-a-blink-182-song-and-analyze-the-accent

DeLonge is an extreme example but far from the only singer in the genre to adopt a very particular accent, usually described as sneering, whining, bratty, or snotty. By the early-2000s, with pop-punk nearing the apex of its popularity, singers from all over California had influenced singers from as far afield as Minnesota, Ontario, Maryland, and South Florida, all of whom sung pretty much just like DeLonge, who grew up just outside San Diego.

What’s going on here? How did that linguistic pattern take hold? From its start, punk has played with accents, with Americans sounding like Brits and vice versa, but this voice is different.
Even a band (that I love) like Neck Deep -- who is Welsh -- basically sounds like Tom DeLonge.
 

cromulence

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In 1994-ish, I heard a song on my college radio station that I loved and was pretty sure I'd correctly heard the band name (I think it was Daisy Chainsaw, but I'm not positive). Walked to the record store, paid $17 for the CD, went home and...nope -- the song I liked was nowhere to be found. I sold it back to the record store the next day for like $5 after explaining what had happened and the guy said, "Well, I see you're a Red Sox fan, so I'm sure you're used to disappointment." A lot's changed since then.
This happened to me in the 90's with Here Comes the Hotstepper. I heard it on the radio and loved it, but the DJ didn't say who or what it was afterwards, so I had to try to figure it out if I wanted to listen to it again. And you couldn't just throw some lyrics into Google to find it, not to mention that I barely understood a word of it the first time I heard it. All I knew was "naaa na na na na..." I know that was a pretty big hit so it probably should've been easier to find, but cut me some slack, I was just a kid.
 

Pablo's TB Lover

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Possibly not the thread for it, but I've heard Sunny Day Real Estate discussed more in the past two years than I did when they were a "popular" band. Before recently, I mostly heard their name referenced when mentioning that the Foo Fighters' bassist Nate Mendel was originally in Sunny Day Real Estate.

There seems to be a new emo movement amongst GenZ that's accompanied by a presumption that anyone who followed music in the 90s knew all of these bands. I think people forget how hard it was to discover new music in the 90s compared to today. In 1994-ish, I heard a song on my college radio station that I loved and was pretty sure I'd correctly heard the band name (I think it was Daisy Chainsaw, but I'm not positive). Walked to the record store, paid $17 for the CD, went home and...nope -- the song I liked was nowhere to be found. I sold it back to the record store the next day for like $5 after explaining what had happened and the guy said, "Well, I see you're a Red Sox fan, so I'm sure you're used to disappointment." A lot's changed since then.
Maybe you confused Daisy Chainsaw with Tripping Daisy who had their one hit "I Got a Girl" in 1995? We had a nice record store on campus that had a decent used CD selection. So I'd just have to wait some months after the one-hit-wonder of the moment, and then would find these CDs used for $5-8 a pop instead of $10-15+. Tripping Daisy's 1995 CD was decent, but the best one I scored this way was Hum's 'You'd Prefer an Astronaut'. They had one single that did ok on the radio, but I loved the album as a post-grunge/space/math rock antidote to the grunge overload from high school.
 

Bozo Texino

still hates Dave Kerpen
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There are a few trends here that I've noticed that may just be me being "not in the know" because, try as I might, I don't keep up with new music as well as I used to:

- It's harder for new bands to form mass audiences because of fractured, algo-infused fandom, so old bands that already reached those heights are experiencing a renaissance. For example, Sunny Day Real Estate is going on a reunion tour. Why now? Probably because they can fill a venue better than most new bands and are thus getting paid more than the other attempts to pull them out of retirement. I feel like every week I encounter some new, shocking band that's reuniting that was never very popular or good, or swore they'd never go on a reunion tour (like Jawbreaker). It's like new music is getting frozen out because of nostalgia (same way in movies).

- I feel like new bands in this space aren't really growing the genre, they're just kind of copying it. When I hear Turnstile or Joyce Manor, I feel kind of like I'm listening to a cover band, so why not just listen to Texas is the Reason or Lifetime and hear the better version? It sounds like Gus Van Zant's version of Psycho sometimes.

I'm admittedly biased here and I'm going to be "that old guy" but there's something inherently DIY and raw about the genre and I hope that Gen Z does something more with that than the capitalized version of the music that wasn't super interesting.
I agree that they're kind of copying it, but there's still some great stuff being made. (As an aside, I saw someone tweet that Turnstile is just Foo Fighters for cool people, and I can't unread that.)

You might like this article: https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/i-made-a-linguistics-professor-listen-to-a-blink-182-song-and-analyze-the-accent



Even a band (that I love) like Neck Deep -- who is Welsh -- basically sounds like Tom DeLonge.
Turnstile just sounds like 311 to me. To hear people call them a "hardcore band" is completely baffling. I don't get it at all.

Maybe you confused Daisy Chainsaw with Tripping Daisy who had their one hit "I Got a Girl" in 1995? We had a nice record store on campus that had a decent used CD selection. So I'd just have to wait some months after the one-hit-wonder of the moment, and then would find these CDs used for $5-8 a pop instead of $10-15+. Tripping Daisy's 1995 CD was decent, but the best one I scored this way was Hum's 'You'd Prefer an Astronaut'. They had one single that did ok on the radio, but I loved the album as a post-grunge/space/math rock antidote to the grunge overload from high school.
Tripping Daisy's follow-up to I Am an Elastic Firecracker (the album with "I Got a Girl"), Jesus Hits Like the Atom Bomb is fucking AWESOME. Way, way more interesting.

Of course, Tim DeLaughter also went on to form The Polyphonic Spree. Jesus Hits Like the Atom Bomb is much more along those lines than the quirky post grunge of "I Got a Girl."

You'd Prefer an Astronaut is fantastic. I wish we got more stuff like Hum and Failure back then.
 

johnmd20

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Are they doing an emo week because of its the 20 year anniversary of Taking Back Sunday's Tell All Your Friends?

My buddies have been back in the news because of it.
I would bet it's because of the 20 year anniversary of My Chemical Romance's first album, which came out July 23rd, 2002. And unlike a lot of bands, it is definitely their worst album, although kudos to how raw it is.
 

johnmd20

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Bill Simmons is basically a replacement level podcaster at this point. So many ridiculous Simmons comments in the Unforgiven pod. First off, he continually mocks CR's The Watch, which is so odd considering Ryan's importance to the entire podcast network. Second, Simmons literally dusts off two of the "is this the first or last thing" when talking about Anti-Heroes and westerns.

Is this the first anti hero Bill? Jesus. Clint himself literally did an antihero movie 30 years earlier in Fistful of Dollars. But asking if this is the last great western is just stupid. Sean's like, "Well, Tombstone came out a year later."

Finally, Simmons weirdly is not interested in watching Cry Macho, which just doesn't make sense considering his and his father's reverence for Clint.

Simmons' vacation could last another 6 months and it wouldn't be a bad thing.
 

Mr. Stinky Esq.

No more Ramon
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Dec 7, 2006
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Bill Simmons is basically a replacement level podcaster at this point. So many ridiculous Simmons comments in the Unforgiven pod. First off, he continually mocks CR's The Watch, which is so odd considering Ryan's importance to the entire podcast network. Second, Simmons literally dusts off two of the "is this the first or last thing" when talking about Anti-Heroes and westerns.

Is this the first anti hero Bill? Jesus. Clint himself literally did an antihero movie 30 years earlier in Fistful of Dollars. But asking if this is the last great western is just stupid. Sean's like, "Well, Tombstone came out a year later."

Finally, Simmons weirdly is not interested in watching Cry Macho, which just doesn't make sense considering his and his father's reverence for Clint.

Simmons' vacation could last another 6 months and it wouldn't be a bad thing.
I agree with all of this.
Just wanted to chime in to say I find Andy* and Chris delightful on The Watch to the point where I’ll listen to them even if I’m not interested in the subject of their conversation. I can't say the same about Simmons. I'm listening to the Unforgiven episode of the Rewatchables because I love the movie and I find Chris and Sean entertaining (all really despite Simmons, who only detracts from the experience).

*I realize Andy may not be for everyone, but I am a fan. I think Simmons made some comment like "say hi to Andy for me" in a snide way in the last episode, and I thought it was really odd. Some kind of rift there I missed?
 

ManicCompression

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May 14, 2015
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So many ridiculous Simmons comments in the Unforgiven pod.
I had to pause the "There Will Be Blood" podcast and reflect on what I was doing with my life when Simmons said this at the beginning about PTA: "He reminds me of my son. Ben will have these obsessions, like age six he just loved Michael Jackson and then he moved onto wrestling and it seems like PTA almost does this with art."

Yes, Bill, PTAs obsessiveness is like Ben enjoying wrestling as a child. It's a perfect and totally not ham-fisted metaphor.
 

johnmd20

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I agree with all of this.
Just wanted to chime in to say I find Andy* and Chris delightful on The Watch to the point where I’ll listen to them even if I’m not interested in the subject of their conversation. I can't say the same about Simmons. I'm listening to the Unforgiven episode of the Rewatchables because I love the movie and I find Chris and Sean entertaining (all really despite Simmons, who only detracts from the experience).

*I realize Andy may not be for everyone, but I am a fan. I think Simmons made some comment like "say hi to Andy for me" in a snide way in the last episode, and I thought it was really odd. Some kind of rift there I missed?
I'm personally hot and cold on Andy because he's so pretentious. And it does bother me that he's on a TV podcast, talking about TV, and he hates watching TV.(e.g. the somewhat recent episode of best series' of 2022 had Andy basically say about every show he picked, "I watched the first 4 episodes but I still have to finish it. But it's an overwhelmingly great show." Ok Andy, then actually watch the show?)

But at least he's interesting and The Watch is a great podcast. CR is a superstar and very funny and also engaging.

The Bill Simmons podcast is truly awful in 2022. The Teatime Podcast (which actually is a fun romp and Amelia and Liz are both very funny) is streets ahead of Bill's podcast at this point. Bill's podcast hit the Nadir Valley this summer with the incessant deep dives into NBA roster moves, no guests, and nothing interesting about anything else but the NBA. Which is, in itself, not that interesting. How many minutes can you talk about Kevin Durant? Simmons has the answer, by the way. It's infinity minutes.
 

Mr. Stinky Esq.

No more Ramon
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Dec 7, 2006
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I'm personally hot and cold on Andy because he's so pretentious. And it does bother me that he's on a TV podcast, talking about TV, and he hates watching TV.(e.g. the somewhat recent episode of best series' of 2022 had Andy basically say about every show he picked, "I watched the first 4 episodes but I still have to finish it. But it's an overwhelmingly great show." Ok Andy, then actually watch the show?)
I don't disagree with you but, in (mild) defense of Andy, I'll offer the following. I think he usually mixes self-deprecation with pretentiousness, which kind of takes the sting out of it. And I don't mind it anyway because he's usually a Yin to Chris's Ozark-loving Yang. He also has kids and a (somewhat opaque right now?) day job, so watching as much TV as Chris just ain't happening.
 

Wingack

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Jul 14, 2005
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I don't disagree with you but, in (mild) defense of Andy, I'll offer the following. I think he usually mixes self-deprecation with pretentiousness, which kind of takes the sting out of it. And I don't mind it anyway because he's usually a Yin to Chris's Ozark-loving Yang. He also has kids and a (somewhat opaque right now?) day job, so watching as much TV as Chris just ain't happening.
I love The Watch and Chris and Andy, and I guess Andy's pretentiousness is part of what I love. I love to get angry at him and at least he knows he annoys his fans and the fans of the podcast. When he gets cooking and loves a show, I do love to hear him talk about something he is passionate about. In a weird way his opinion matters a lot to me, even if I often disagree with it.

It's still the best TV pod going even if they only really talk about trailers (because they are short enough for Andy to watch and have an opinion about) and the business side of things (which I like too). The blaming of the kids thing is not a good excuse though. I have kids. Kids go to bed early, that's when the TV goes on.
 

TheGazelle

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Dec 17, 2009
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I'm personally hot and cold on Andy because he's so pretentious. And it does bother me that he's on a TV podcast, talking about TV, and he hates watching TV.(e.g. the somewhat recent episode of best series' of 2022 had Andy basically say about every show he picked, "I watched the first 4 episodes but I still have to finish it. But it's an overwhelmingly great show." Ok Andy, then actually watch the show?)

But at least he's interesting and The Watch is a great podcast. CR is a superstar and very funny and also engaging.

The Bill Simmons podcast is truly awful in 2022. The Teatime Podcast (which actually is a fun romp and Amelia and Liz are both very funny) is streets ahead of Bill's podcast at this point. Bill's podcast hit the Nadir Valley this summer with the incessant deep dives into NBA roster moves, no guests, and nothing interesting about anything else but the NBA. Which is, in itself, not that interesting. How many minutes can you talk about Kevin Durant? Simmons has the answer, by the way. It's infinity minutes.
Bill is on what sounds like a reasonably extended break. Hopefully he comes back from that more energized, because I agree with you - I've skipped a ton of the recent BS pods, and really only listened those with Russillo (because I like him), and I haven't finished many of those. Him back for football with Sal will get me listening to at least those, but you're right that nothing-but-the-NBA does not a good podcast make (particularly when I don't watch a ton of NBA anyway).

I haven't tried Tea Time, but I will give it a go now.
 

johnmd20

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Bill is on what sounds like a reasonably extended break. Hopefully he comes back from that more energized, because I agree with you - I've skipped a ton of the recent BS pods, and really only listened those with Russillo (because I like him), and I haven't finished many of those. Him back for football with Sal will get me listening to at least those, but you're right that nothing-but-the-NBA does not a good podcast make (particularly when I don't watch a ton of NBA anyway).

I haven't tried Tea Time, but I will give it a go now.
Tea Time is a pop culture podcast and it's silly and not important but it's a very fun listen because the hosts are all great together. I can't say I listen to every episode (probably 70% of them) but when I do listen, I'm always entertained. And at the end of every episode, they do a rewatch of some teen movie that's come out in the past 20 years, kind of like the rewatchables, and I have not seen 90% of the movies they cover and it's still a great listen.

It's just so different to listen to a podcast by 20 something women, as opposed to Rusillo or PMT or Bill Burr, and that variety is good.
 

Kliq

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The guys talking about what their lives would be like if they lived in 1880 was very funny.
 

Mr. Stinky Esq.

No more Ramon
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Dec 7, 2006
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The blaming of the kids thing is not a good excuse though. I have kids. Kids go to bed early, that's when the TV goes on.
For what it's worth, TV viewing went wayyy down in my house once children came into the picture. But I just meant there's no way Andy can watch TV like Chris does. Chris consumes content, thinks about it, and talks about it for fun and for a living. There's no keeping up with Chris's consumption for a dad with a day job.
 

Wingack

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For what it's worth, TV viewing went wayyy down in my house once children came into the picture. But I just meant there's no way Andy can watch TV like Chris does. Chris consumes content, thinks about it, and talks about it for fun and for a living. There's no keeping up with Chris's consumption for a dad with a day job.
I agree with that.
 

Shelterdog

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Bill crapping on 'English majors' and then 5 minutes later completely butchering the history of fictional anti-heroes was so on brand.
I enjoy listening to Bill and his podcasts but he’s just a really unsophisticated guy when it comes to any kind of culture more challenging than Wrestlemania or MTV reality shows
 

Bozo Texino

still hates Dave Kerpen
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Bill crapping on 'English majors' and then 5 minutes later completely butchering the history of fictional anti-heroes was so on brand.
I understand where he's coming from, but Bill could use a lot more "English major" in him.

As @johnmd20 accurately pointed out, some of Simmons' comments on the Unforgiven pod are downright embarrassing. First antihero? Apex mountain - whatever that is - for westerns? Jesus Christ, man.
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
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Nov 4, 2007
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Wait, the first antihero in film - as opposed to, say, the original Scarface 100 years ago, or the first antihero ever, as opposed to Greek mythology and the Bible and Paradise Lost and almost everything ever?