The Red Sox have fired Chaim Bloom
- Thread starter Smiling Joe Hesketh
- Start date
- Status
Sometimes I get when they do this hack jobs on people. It's a bit confusing when they do it on someone who was already as unpopular as Bloom.
We really appreciate everything he did with the farm system & building up the pipeline, but we were also expecting to field a more competitive team on the field these last 2 years & things didn't work the way everyone hoped they would. We appreciate all of his hard work & dedication & wish him all the best in future endeavors.
We will now be hiring an f genius who will continue to grow the pipeline while also kicking azz & winning World Serieseses.
We really appreciate everything he did with the farm system & building up the pipeline, but we were also expecting to field a more competitive team on the field these last 2 years & things didn't work the way everyone hoped they would. We appreciate all of his hard work & dedication & wish him all the best in future endeavors.
We will now be hiring an f genius who will continue to grow the pipeline while also kicking azz & winning World Serieseses.
FWIW I really don't think this is true. You don't fire a GM because of the present, you fire him because of how you think he fits the future. Bloom built a team with major defensive issues, and three of the weakest defensive players (Devers, Yoshida, Casas) are a big part of the core going forward, so that's not something that will be easy to improve.
Also Bloom did not seem to be good at spending money (Story, Yoshida, admittedly both of those could look better down the road but they don't look great currently) and since presumably that's what BOS needs to do a bunch of in this next phase, time to find someone who is better at doing that (it's not easy).
This is it!!! 100%.
They are going to need to flex financial muscles to take the next step.
Wouldn't it have been more of a rebuild if they didn't trade Mookie, because A) they'd have more luxury tax issues, and B) they'd have won more? E.g., there would be no Mayer if Mookie was still here.
Why do they need to justify it? He's spent 200 million two years in a row and they've stunk. The discussion was specific to his relationship with Cora, and it didn't sound like a smear at all.
Frankly, if anyone besides Bloom should be "blamed" it's the sock puppet Sam Kennedy who sounds like the director of activities on a cruise ship every time he opens his mouth. Give Bloom Larry Lucchino to take the bullets and you probably have a better public relations outcome the last few years.
I agree with your future looking comment, but in terms of the defense, Bloom is really only responsible for Yoshida. Devers was already here, and given his age, clearly the better long-term signing than Xander.
Casas was also already here. I'm sure he was tradable, but we had a general dearth of good hitting prospects that had his arrival time (2022/3). I'm not sure you can send him out and get back (presumably via other trades also) a bat of his quality with plus defense at 1B. Not without taking on a ML contract and losing years of control. He was (is) also a work-in-progress defensively.
While it's Bloom's responsibility, I'm not sure the Hernandez breakdown, Story injury, Arroyo implosion, Chang hand, and Hamilton/Valdez fails were forseeable as a group. Meaning, I don't think he discounted defense, or anything like that. I think some of his key defense + players were injured or imploded.
I think Bloom's FA acquisitions have been pretty savvy, Kluber excepted. If you're talking only longer term contracts, I'd agree that Story/Yoshida both need to improve to justify their contracts. Or in Story's case, marginally rebound. I'm not second guessing the front office's concern here, but Bloom's actually hit more than he's missed in FA.
Thank you. I was beginning to think I was insane.
Nothing wrong with a thank you for all the hard work but we have decided we need someone else to finish the job.
I say this not against you because you are citing an article where it's stated, but I say this against the writer at OTM.
But saying Bloom was trying to emulate Cleveland is very lazy by the writer, and I don't get it.
Cleveland consistently spends high round picks on college pitchers. Yes, Bieber was the 4th round and Bibee was 5th, but Civale was 3rd, Logan T Allen was 2nd, Gavin Williams was 1st, Tanner Burns (in AA) was 1st, McKenzie was 1st (but he was out of HS).
Bloom went Wu-Yelland (4th) and Drohan (5th); a high schooler in Rodriguez Cruz 4th and Olds 7th; Rogers (3rd) and Dean (5th) for his first two pitchers taken in 2020, 2021 and 2022.
Not only that - none of them were strike throwers in college.
Bieber had a 6.2 to 1 k/bb ratio
Allen was 5.3 / 1
Civale 4.7 / 1
Burns was 3.3 / 1
Bibee was the worst at 3.2 / 1
The highest percentage strike thrower for Bloom was
Dean 3.1 / 1 - and he would have been the worst among Cleveland picks.
Wu-Yelland had no control with 1.6 / 1
Drohan's was even worse at 1.3 / 1
Maybe the way that they spent draft capital on position players was similar, I haven't looked. But that is a lazy analogy regarding pitching by the writer on OTM.
Carrabis is not a mouthpiece for the Red Sox. If you listen to the podcasts, you'd see that he criticizes them as much as he praises the team.
On Bloom, what he is good at is being calculated, careful, and risk-averse. Those are great traits to have when having the long-term view of building out an organization. But when people not associated to the Red Sox are saying that that approach hindered him from building the major league team the right way then you have a pretty good idea of what is being said from inside the organization is true.
That's exactly what they said in all their dealings with the media. All this other stuff is coming from reporters getting to the bottom of the story with their sources. Some may be with the team, but some are opinions from other teams. When a guy gets fired, is it really a surprise that when reporters go digging they find out people weren't happy with how he was doing his job? Were we expecting everyone to say that Chaim was just the greatest and the team were idiots for letting him go?
You mean they would have dug themselves a deeper hole to rebuild out of? Sure. Which is why I've always wondered if they knew Mookie was going to FA no matter what -- in which case there wasn't much risk in trading him, because then it really is just trading one season. From what we knew, it seemed like he was determined to do that but you can never tell if that was gamesmanship. Maybe they knew more about that. And then Covid flipped Mookie's plans around. Whatever, we have six years of Roman Anthony at below market cost coming.
I mean, he more or less has said as much. I think we have to operate under the assumption he was going to FA. And in that context, I've never understood the hate for the deal, other than Verdugo ending up meh and Downs not panning out. And I generally dislike Bloom.
Eh. I mean the interpersonal stuff, sure. That could easily just be good reporting & factual facts.
But are other teams leaking "we tried to make this awful trade with Boston that would have screwed us over but they said no lol"?
There is all this talk about Bloom's drafting but almost no talk about the main method the team has been using to acquire young pitchers-- the international free agent signings. The team has clearly been trying to bring in a lot of young international arms with upside, with a similar strategy as the draft-- gathering a lot of arms for low bonuses (rather than paying bigger bonuses for fewer pitchers) and then trying to develop them. Per Sox Prospects, they signed 16 international pitchers in 2022 and 26 more this year. That is a lot of lottery tickets to work with.
These international pitchers are younger and farther away from the majors than draftees, but they can be developed by the Red Sox for a longer time, rather than by college or high school coaches.
It seems like a good long term strategy, but it takes a LONG time before you see the results in the majors.
This part from the linked article is definitely true of the international signings as much as the drafted pitchers:
It will be interesting to see if the new head of baseball ops continues with this strategy or not. The first of these international guys that Bloom signed like Monegro, Paez, Rodriguez-Cruz, etc. were mostly in Salem or even lower this year, so it will be a few more years before any of them get to Boston. And then rookie pitchers usually struggle, so it will be even longer before we see much production from them. Bloom will have been long, long gone by the time any of these guys is pitching well for the Red Sox but the idea is that in a few years, there will be a steady stream of a few potentially good pitchers coming up to Boston most years.
It's hard for a head of baseball ops to commit to such a long term development system. Especially if you are only going to get 4 years before getting replaced. The next person might well want to go in a different route.
I mean, to be fair, there are plenty of really smart people on this board that have been projecting Chris Sale to be very good in 2022 and 2023 and probably will for 2024. I for one didn't think he could be or should be counted on, but I respect the opinions and the data of those who did. I can see why someone from Texas might have thought the same thing that they did, and it was up to Bloom to take advantage of that. He didn't, and Sale became his albatross and not something that could just be blamed on the prior ownership.
Also - indirectly - it can be seen as Texas trying to look a little better on the DeGrom signing. "NO. We had a deal struck for Chris Sale. Granted, he's not really good any more and he still is only going to pitch 20 games a season at the most. But hey - at least he's pitching right now and that would only be $55M of wasted salary instead of $185M. Chaim Bloom backed us into that corner." If I'd inked that deGrom deal, I'd be trying to blame it on someone else too.
DeGrom had a 1.5 fWAR this season to Sale's 1.9.
That would be weird logic, though. We had to sign Jacob DeGrom because we couldn't trade for Chris Sale?
It's also tricky because since they are signed so young, they need to be protected from the rule 5 by the time they are 21 or so, when they're often still nowhere near MLB-ready.
Oh, of course it's a stretch. But I wouldn't put it past any executive of any multi billion dollar entity to do whatever they could to try and CYA. Especially when you're on the hook for $185m to someone that hasn't pitched more than 15 games in 4 years and will be 36 next season.
They're not trying to 'CYA', they're trying to win now/ASAP. They have been massive spenders the past two winters, then on top of that they traded for Scherzer and Montgomery at the deadline. Much like the Padres, they are going nuts spending money now, and not worried about the long-range ramifications.
Fair. But that would still make sense to have out there that you wanted to acquire Chris Sale and Chaim Bloom pulled the rug out from under you. Whether that happened or not, if Texas is doing just that you'd want it known that you were in on "everyone" and it was someone else fault you didn't get.
Totally plausible that would come from the Texas side of things - as has been mentioned by those with the story. Chris Sale is not great any more and he's basically a lock to pitch less than 20 games next year - but in a playoff race he's less bad than Heaney, Martin Perez, 2nd half Dane Dunning and Cody Bradford.
Thanks for this post. Interesting information. I looked closely enough at how Bloom drafted to have any kind of cogent response to this but I appreciate you looking up the stats.
It's par for the course these days for teams to fire GMs near the end of the season rather than waiting for the offseason. GM meetings and QO deadlines in November means teams need to have their new GM in place by mid-October in many cases.
Yeah, under Bloom, Red Sox invested in lots of pitchers at lower bonuses with obvious flaws that they hope to fix. Along with high ceiling, high floor bats at higher bonuses.
I laughed at Noah Dean having the best k/bb rate. In 63 innings at Salem this year he had 86 strikeouts & 72 walks.
I laughed at Noah Dean having the best k/bb rate. In 63 innings at Salem this year he had 86 strikeouts & 72 walks.
You raise good points and I'm wondering aloud if anyone has ever looked at Int'l signing bonuses and eventual production. I'd guess that international signings are even more of a crapshoot than drafting given the age of signings but I'm sure teams have data on this.
As for the next BOps head, it will also be interesting to see how he handles the development system. Seems like those teams that are developing well are doing so because they have an integrated organizational philosophy that incorporates the latest training methods and Bloom was trying to move BOS that way. Hopefully it continues.
Remember the Red Sox only had 4 picks in 2020 draft due to the stupid video spying penalty. Plus there was no minor league ball and limited college ball in 2020 due to Covid
Right, there were rumors swirling about Edwin Diaz back in 2019, and it's kind of amazing that he didn't go for that, assuming the rumor was true, of course. Kind of an interesting what-if, I guess.
(If I'm remembering right, Buster Olney at one point said the Mets were really interested in Dalbec in a Diaz deal, and ... DD really should have made that trade if he could've. Which probably means it wasn't real.)
GTFOH because it doesn’t actually do those two things, or because you don’t care about those two things?
I think they canned him early to focus all the attention on Bloom. They didn’t do him a favor. And anything they are doing today could wait a few weeks.
How does that change if they can him at the end of the season? Walk me through it. Francona got shitcanned at the end of the season and legitimately slimed in the press, not whatever this supposed character assassination is.
And, sure. They could start interviewing in a few weeks. And lose of out on the first few weeks of the offseason, with more competition for whomever they decide they want. But they should keep Bloom on for a couple more weeks because . . . reasons?
Thank you.
This behavior isn’t unique to the Red Sox or the Boston media. If someone gets fired, the media goes to their sources around the league to try and find out why. It’s not a coordinated smear campaign and Alex Speier is one of the best baseball reporters around, it’s a joke to try and act like he’s going out of his way to do something wrong just because you don’t agree.
The only times that I felt like the Red Sox were actually doing smear campaigns was back in the days of Steinberg and Lucchino, and the media covering the team was very different back then
Again…this makes absolutely 0 sense. Everyone else in this thread has agreed on this
It’s not like they’re saying he was abusing substances or cheating on his wife. People here are saying ownership - the people still involved with the city and team - hamstrung Bloom or made him the face of the Mookie trade or sent him mixed messages - and then are bothered when the team gives reasons for the firing, which is certainly newsworthy.
BOH is staying with the Red Sox in an Executive VP of Baseball Operations role. He will report to the next head of baseball ops.
https://x.com/jcmccaffrey/status/1705220215380804065?s=20
https://x.com/jcmccaffrey/status/1705220215380804065?s=20
I believe the firing was warranted and the reasons valid. It’s my message board opinion that it could have waited until last game plus 1.
The lack of creativity and decisiveness commentary is good for copy. Throwing out incomplete trade information isn’t telling the whole story. Comments about a divide in the FO without details deserves names. Comments like a GM candidate getting out of his office are slams.
I think it’s very clear the timing could have been more favorable to the employee. And not sure how Cora is skating on this…
I’m leaving this island pronto. Can’t wait for Bloom battles to be in the past.
Maybe I’m triggered because I’m in Cleveland for hockey and going to a Guardians game. I’ll represent and thank Francona for everything.
No problem at all. I generally tend to enjoy the stuff from OTM as well, so I absolutely get why you'd take them at face value. I didn't initially include the players selected in the 2023 draft because some of them don't have stats to point to in affiliated ball yet, so there is between nothing to very little to be gleaned from looking at them.
I will say that the top two pitching selections from 2023 at least seem to be more like strike throwers (at least college data). Early had a 4.35k/bb ratio in his one season at UVA and Duffy is reportedly a strike thrower as well, at least from his draft write up (Duffy led the MAAC in strikeouts and has good command. He can throw his fastball, slider and changeup for strikes. Per https://www.mlb.com/news/red-sox-2023-draft-signings-tracker). Duffy's stats at Canisus back that up with a 4.63 k/bb ratio. Weins had a great season of control dropping down to Western Kentucky, but in the SEC he had seemingly no idea where the ball was going. He faced 4 batters and walked 1 in his lone start at Salem, for whatever that's worth.
Cleveland (of course they did) spent pick 3.2 on Andrew Walters from Miami whom had a ludicrous 7.73k to bb ratio in the ACC. FWIW, having already spent early draft capital on Yorke, Mayer and Romero in the first round for 3 consecutive years along with Cespedes (SS) and Bonaci (SS/2b) already in the system, I'd probably rather have an advanced strike throwing machine from the ACC (Walters) vs drafting yet another prep shortstop (Zanetello) in the 2nd, but this is obviously nothing more than personal preference and hindsight. Not like I knew Andrew Walters existed before making this post.
So at least the 2023 draft shows guys whom somewhat threw strikes (though on 2 of them you're talking about 1 season in college, the other two where the command was nothing at all like what Cleveland seems to have been targeting). The "up the middle bats" portion is right on, but in his 4 years of drafts Bloom didn't at all show a propensity to look at spending early capital on strike throwing college pitchers, nor really to even bother drafting strike throwing college pitchers in any way similar to Cleveland.
Not for nothing but, a lot of the guys from Seattle (another "pitching factory") share that common trait. Kirby, Gilbert, and Hancock all had very good k/bb rates in college. Woo was only 2.87 and Miller only at 2.47 for what it's worth. That's not nearly in the same realm as Cleveland in terms of control, but it's a heck of a lot better than the top picks under Bloom - at least in his first 3 of 4 drafts. 2023 started to look more like Seattle, but just by a little.
Last edited:
Sure, it could have. But why? Instead of just saying the same thing over and over again that you obviously feel incredibly strongly about, walk us through it.
You think it’s so clear that you haven’t bothered to explain it, despite being asked multiple times now
I will argue against this untill the day I'm wrong, so we can revisit this in 6 or 7 years.
Last edited:
Don't feel bad. I would have advocated a Xander extension into his late 30s more than one for Mookie so you're not alone in thinking we should have bet on him. I just think he's so consistent across the board and such a good build for a baseball players (yes, I know, we're not selling jeans here) that I feel he's going to be one of those guys that consistently puts up right around 3.5 to 4 bWAR per season until he's like 36 or something and then still produces something like 2 bWAR in those late years, and than you never have to feel bad selling to your fanbase.
I'm trying to think of a comp, and it's tough. Best I can come up with is to think of a Cal Ripken Jr light - because obviously minus the streak and those 3 outlier seasons of 8.5+ bWAR, but consistently producing well into his 30s. A "hall of very good" type of player.
- Status