The Red Sox ARE good. So now what?

Tuff Ghost

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Should there be multiple approaches here with different players? The list posted upthread (along with batting averages) gives a clear picture as to which players should be taking a more on base friendly approach. I've never played the game at a high level, but aren't most of the guys in the bottom half of that list helping opposing pitcher with there aggressiveness? Wouldn't some of these guy's benefit the team more by being more than a quick and easy out?
I think Dalbec is one example of a player who actually does have a somewhat patient approach, but just swings and misses so much that the end result is pitchers can put him away and he does not get the chance to walk. Walking definitely is a skill that requires the ability to put the ball into play, otherwise pitchers just keep attacking. (I am just replying in regards to Dalbec because I find him an interesting player, not because I think the quoted post is specific towards him.)

To show Dalbec's approach is not really a quick and easy one, here are a few numbers comparing him to league average, plus Devers & J.D. Martinez (aggressive and successful hitters).

First pitch swing %:
Dalbec: 26.7%
League Average: 29.9%
Martinez: 40.8%
Devers: 44.4%

Pitches / plate appearance:
Dalbec: 4.03
League Average: 3.92
Martinez: 3.72
Devers: 3.71

Percentage of PAs where a 3-0 count is reached:
Dalbec: 5.9%
Devers: 5.0%
League Average: 4.6%
Martinez: 3.2%

Strikes Looking % (Strikes Looking divided by All Strikes):
Dalbec: 26.5%
League Average: 25.7%
Martinez: 18.5%
Devers: 13.2%

Looking at all of the above data, you'd think Dalbec should have an above average BB % and certainly a higher one than Devers/Martinez, yet he definitely does not. He swings at the first pitch the least often, gets the most pitches per plate appearance, reaches the most 3-0 counts, and takes the most strikes looking.

BB %:
Martinez: 8.7%
League Average: 8.6%
Devers: 8.2%
Dalbec: 5.5%

He simply misses too many pitches in the zone to be able to earn a walk. He swings at pitches in the zone less than league average and misses them well above league average.

Zone Swing %:
Devers: 81.7%
Martinez: 75.2%
League Average: 66.7%
Dalbec: 66.4%

Zone Contact %:
League Average: 82.1%
Martinez: 77.9%
Devers: 74.8%
Dalbec: 66.7%

Dalbec does not seem like one who has an approach issue with being too aggressive, it's just an ability to hit the ball consistently issue. FWIW, I have not given up on him yet. His barrel % is still great, his exit velocity is impressive, and his xSLG is above average (73rd percentile). He is still trailing his xwOBA of .318 with an actual wOBA of .280, so there is an argument that his numbers are short-changing him by a good amount- not enough to imply he should be a top hitter right now, but enough that he should be more in the vicinity of league average instead of a black hole. It's tough to be productive with a 37% K rate, though, so it's a steep climb for him to become a successful major leaguer when he whiffs so much.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I think Dalbec is one example of a player who actually does have a somewhat patient approach, but just swings and misses so much that the end result is pitchers can put him away and he does not get the chance to walk. Walking definitely is a skill that requires the ability to put the ball into play, otherwise pitchers just keep attacking. (I am just replying in regards to Dalbec because I find him an interesting player, not because I think the quoted post is specific towards him.)

To show Dalbec's approach is not really a quick and easy one, here are a few numbers comparing him to league average, plus Devers & J.D. Martinez (aggressive and successful hitters).

First pitch swing %:
Dalbec: 26.7%
League Average: 29.9%
Martinez: 40.8%
Devers: 44.4%

Pitches / plate appearance:
Dalbec: 4.03
League Average: 3.92
Martinez: 3.72
Devers: 3.71

Percentage of PAs where a 3-0 count is reached:
Dalbec: 5.9%
Devers: 5.0%
League Average: 4.6%
Martinez: 3.2%

Strikes Looking % (Strikes Looking divided by All Strikes):
Dalbec: 26.5%
League Average: 25.7%
Martinez: 18.5%
Devers: 13.2%

Looking at all of the above data, you'd think Dalbec should have an above average BB % and certainly a higher one than Devers/Martinez, yet he definitely does not. He swings at the first pitch the least often, gets the most pitches per plate appearance, reaches the most 3-0 counts, and takes the most strikes looking.

BB %:
Martinez: 8.7%
League Average: 8.6%
Devers: 8.2%
Dalbec: 5.5%

He simply misses too many pitches in the zone to be able to earn a walk. He swings at pitches in the zone less than league average and misses them well above league average.

Zone Swing %:
Devers: 81.7%
Martinez: 75.2%
League Average: 66.7%
Dalbec: 66.4%

Zone Contact %:
League Average: 82.1%
Martinez: 77.9%
Devers: 74.8%
Dalbec: 66.7%

Dalbec does not seem like one who has an approach issue with being too aggressive, it's just an ability to hit the ball consistently issue. FWIW, I have not given up on him yet. His barrel % is still great, his exit velocity is impressive, and his xSLG is above average (73rd percentile). He is still trailing his xwOBA of .318 with an actual wOBA of .280, so there is an argument that his numbers are short-changing him by a good amount- not enough to imply he should be a top hitter right now, but enough that he should be more in the vicinity of league average instead of a black hole. It's tough to be productive with a 37% K rate, though, so it's a steep climb for him to become a successful major leaguer when he whiffs so much.

You inverted your numbers. Dalbec's looking strike % is 25.4. The MLB average is 26.5. (nevermind, you posted his number from this year and his career number happens to be 25.4). HIs 26.5 this year is the MLB average (26.5)

Another weird thing: Last year, Dalbec struck out looking 10.3% of the time, this year it's at 17.3%. Both are well below the MLB average of 23.5%.

62 of his 75 strikeouts came via swing and miss.
 

Tuff Ghost

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You inverted your numbers. Dalbec's looking strike % is 25.7. The MLB average is 26.5.

Another weird thing: Last year, Dalbec struck out looking 10.3% of the time, this year it's at 17.3%. Both are well below the MLB average of 23.5%.

62 of his 75 strikeouts came via swing and miss.
Baseball Reference has it the way I posted it (Dalbec 26.5%, League 25.7%), not sure what you are looking at.
42051
 

Tuff Ghost

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If you go to Dalbec's page, it has him at 26.5 this year (25.7 for career). It also has the MLB average at 26.5. The page you listed doesn't even list the MLB average.
On the screenshot, I posted, look one row below Dalbec. It reads, "League Average" and has 25.7%.
 

Tuff Ghost

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View attachment 42053
If you go to Dalbec's page, it has him at 26.5 this year (25.4 for career). It also has the MLB average at 26.5. The page you listed doesn't even list the MLB average.
You added the screenshot with an edit, but I can now see your issue. You are looking at MLB averages for Dalbec's career, i.e. 2020-2021. I am referring to this season.
 

Cesar Crespo

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You added the screenshot with an edit, but I can now see your issue. You are looking at MLB averages for Dalbec's career, i.e. 2020-2021. I am referring to this season.
No, I already corrected that part. I am saying the MLB average is 26.5, not 25.4. Nothing about Dalbec.
 

Tuff Ghost

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No, I already corrected that part. I am saying the MLB average is 26.5, not 25.4. Nothing about Dalbec.
When you are on a player's summary page, the MLB Averages is for the player's career. It reads 26.5% because that is the MLB average for the league during Dalbec's career, which happens to be 2020 to 2021. The league average this year is the 25.7% I posted.

If you look at another player's career page, you'll see the MLB average is different. For example, J.D. Martinez's career is 11 seasons and the MLB average listed there is 26.9%. That's the league average for 11 seasons.
 

Cesar Crespo

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When you are on a player's summary page, the MLB Averages is for the player's career. It reads 26.5% because that is the MLB average for the league during Dalbec's career, which happens to be 2020 to 2021. The league average this year is the 25.7% I posted.

If you look at another player's career page, you'll see the MLB average is different. For example, J.D. Martinez's career is 11 seasons and the MLB average listed there is 26.9%. That's the league average for 11 seasons.
Ahh, I didn't know the MLB average was the career number too.

Basketball ref does something like that but you can actually compare season by season because they list the league average shooting rate for every season next to the players shooting %. Not just some career rate at the bottom. That seems dumb.
 

nvalvo

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Dalbec now has an .843 OPS for June, and has brought his season total up to .699.

He’s had hot streaks before, though, and the strikeouts remain an issue: 21 in 56 June PA, 37.5%. But also 7 XBH in that span, and a .296 BABIP. If you were going to be productive despite a sub-.300 OBP, you’d want a SLG north of .550, and that’s what he’s been providing.

I guess I’m wondering how we figure out if he’s coming out of it. At what point does the near future of Dalbec look better than Cron (or equivalent) trade deadline 1B? I’m not there yet, but what if he posts a .220/.280/.570 line for two months?
 

Cesar Crespo

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At what point does the near future of Dalbec look better than Cron (or equivalent) trade deadline 1B? I’m not there yet, but what if he posts a .220/.280/.570 line for two months?
You kind of answered your own question. At what point? The trade deadline.
 

cantor44

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Dalbec now has an .843 OPS for June, and has brought his season total up to .699.

He’s had hot streaks before, though, and the strikeouts remain an issue: 21 in 56 June PA, 37.5%. But also 7 XBH in that span, and a .296 BABIP. If you were going to be productive despite a sub-.300 OBP, you’d want a SLG north of .550, and that’s what he’s been providing.

I guess I’m wondering how we figure out if he’s coming out of it. At what point does the near future of Dalbec look better than Cron (or equivalent) trade deadline 1B? I’m not there yet, but what if he posts a .220/.280/.570 line for two months?
The amazing thing is that Dalbec started this little streak just as folks on this board (myself included) were ready to demote him (for a little while at least) and find a a veteran solution for the rest of this year. Dalbec was like right on cue. Finding a vet replacement might still be necessary, but Dalbec's improvement this month certainly buys him time to the all-star break, I agree. Let's hope his current streak is the beginning of him being a productive ML hitter and he was going through a Pedroia-esque adjustment to the bigs the last three months.

Meanwhile, Duran just keeps hitting in Worcester. He's nearing 1000 MiLB at bats, and his stats are superb. He's 24 not 21. We don't really have 3 legitimate starting outfielders (we got two and a DH and a few utility guys) and there's still a black hole at the bottom of the line up even with Dalbec's June bump. There's no legit lead-off man, or at least as Cora seems to want to define it. I'm not sure what they're waiting for at this point (I know, his game can still "develop" - but all things considered, seems to make sense to give him a shot).
 

shanks

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The amazing thing is that Dalbec started this little streak just as folks on this board (myself included) were ready to demote him (for a little while at least) and find a a veteran solution for the rest of this year. Dalbec was like right on cue. Finding a vet replacement might still be necessary, but Dalbec's improvement this month certainly buys him time to the all-star break, I agree. Let's hope his current streak is the beginning of him being a productive ML hitter and he was going through a Pedroia-esque adjustment to the bigs the last three months.

Meanwhile, Duran just keeps hitting in Worcester. He's nearing 1000 MiLB at bats, and his stats are superb. He's 24 not 21. We don't really have 3 legitimate starting outfielders (we got two and a DH and a few utility guys) and there's still a black hole at the bottom of the line up even with Dalbec's June bump. There's no legit lead-off man, or at least as Cora seems to want to define it. I'm not sure what they're waiting for at this point (I know, his game can still "develop" - but all things considered, seems to make sense to give him a shot).
this is where i’m at. duran and/or franchy can’t be worse than santana and marwin/kike at this point. i’m all for hoarding talent, but i also like to make the most of resources. maybe they’re waiting for all star break to make the moves?
 

Cesar Crespo

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this is where i’m at. duran and/or franchy can’t be worse than santana and marwin/kike at this point. i’m all for hoarding talent, but i also like to make the most of resources. maybe they’re waiting for all star break to make the moves?
I'm all for calling Duran up but he's only had 140 PA at the AAA level, and only 140 PA of hitting for any type of in game power. He's also not very good defensively and has a fringe arm. While the scouting reports have kind of caught up with Duran, I think his bat could now play at RF or LF.

And while he was unlucky, Duran was hitting .244 (.244/.346/.567 on a .250 BAbip) to start June 12th.

Last 7 games: 36 PA, .406/.472/.750, .435 BAbip, 2 2b, 3 HR, 3bb/6k.

For the year in 2021 AAA: .287/.379/.615, .304 BAbip. 15bb/32k. 10.7% BB%, 22.9% K rate. ISO of .328.

Compared to 2019 in AA: .250/.309/.325, .335 BAbip. 23bb/84k. 6.5% BB%,23.9% K rate. ISO of .075.



I'm trying to find a bad trend for the guy and I can't. While adding considerable power to his game, he's managed to strike out minimally less and walk considerably more. You'd expect to see an increase in walks with an increase in power, but you'd also expect to see an uptick in strikeouts. This hasn't happened. He's also destroying his AA performance despite not having the typical BAbip luck that he's had throughout his career. That could be a product of hitting more fly balls. With ground balls, his speed comes into play and there are less of those lately.

His ISO this year is literally higher than his OBP in AA and his Slugging % of .615 is a good game away from being better than his .634 OPS in AA.

I've never been high on Dalbec (dating all the way back to Greenville) and always had huge doubts on Duran. I thought Dalbec wouldn't hit for enough average and a lot of his BB in the minors would convert to Ks because he doesn't swing the bat and pitchers throw more strikes. Dalbec's decent June is more like a decent 8 games (.367/.424/.833, .471 BAbip, 33 PA, 1bb/10k/2hp) but he's still not walking at all. If he's hitting .220, his OBP is closer to ..270 than .280. I'm not sure that matters much in a world where he's slugging .570 but batting average is fickle. Also, if Dalbec's true batting average is .220, it's not hard to envision a world where Dalbec hits .250 one year and looks like a borderline all star than hits .190 the next and looks totally useless. If he was hitting .263 like last year, he's hovering around an .800 OPS right now. His BAbip this year is .297 too, so it's not far from average. Long story short, I'm just as sour on him as ever but he's already outperformed my expectations of him.

I thought Duran was a mediocre OF who had early success due to his speed playing out at the lower levels. I thought once he moved up in levels, his glaring lack of power would come into play but that if he ever did develop any, that he'd have all star type potential. I didn't think there was much chance he'd ever develop any though. Big difference between Duran and Dalbec: Duran was struggling at 22 in AA, Dalbec struggled 2 leagues below him at the same age. Now I'm incredibly high on Duran. He is not the 22 year old kid I saw play in Portland a handful of times.

Anyway, I think it's more likely we see Duran in Boston at some point this year than not.
 

Rovin Romine

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It’s incredible we’ve not only survived, but flourished with this out of the lead off spot. Holy shitballs this is awful.
It's just as bad if you look at the season numbers - we're basically 30th out of the lead off spot for the whole year. There's no clever upside to it, just Cora sticking with Hernandez, hoping for what I'm not sure given his career. I had made a post on the numbers in today's game-thread. Arroyo seems to offer the hope of a middle-of-the-pack leadoff hitter. Hernandez. . .meh.
 

PrometheusWakefield

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It seems to me that across the board, the solutions are in house.

The Red Sox need better starting pitching. Chris Sale is the headline but right behind Sale is Tanner Houck and Garret Whitlock ready to step in and probably be as good as a top SP acquisition like Jon Gray or Matthew Boyd, minus any acquisition cost.

The Red Sox need a leadoff hitter, and probably another outfielder. And look, there is Duran, pushing his way into the big leagues.

The Red Sox probably need more production out of first base, but it looks like maybe Bobby Dalbec's improved performance could satisfy this need as well, and again I have as much confidence in Dalbec as Dalbec-like players who could be available like CJ Cron or Jesus Aguilar.

Honestly the only player on the trade market that I see as even all that interesting for this team would be Adam Frazier or maybe some additional relief depth. But I'd only be interested if the cost is low.
 

Niastri

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It seems to me that across the board, the solutions are in house.

The Red Sox need better starting pitching. Chris Sale is the headline but right behind Sale is Tanner Houck and Garret Whitlock ready to step in and probably be as good as a top SP acquisition like Jon Gray or Matthew Boyd, minus any acquisition cost.

The Red Sox need a leadoff hitter, and probably another outfielder. And look, there is Duran, pushing his way into the big leagues.

The Red Sox probably need more production out of first base, but it looks like maybe Bobby Dalbec's improved performance could satisfy this need as well, and again I have as much confidence in Dalbec as Dalbec-like players who could be available like CJ Cron or Jesus Aguilar.

Honestly the only player on the trade market that I see as even all that interesting for this team would be Adam Frazier or maybe some additional relief depth. But I'd only be interested if the cost is low.
When Sale and Houck come back and enter the rotation, the guys they displace become very good relievers, thus solving this hole.

Or, if they can't start, Sale and Houck become the relief help directly.

Btw, in his first rehab open (can't call it a start, can we?):

Tanner Houck (SP): 3 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 1 BB, 6 K (45 pitches)
 

bosockboy

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Carlos Santana intrigued me as an unconventional Dalbec solution who can double as the lead off hitter. He’s been used this way before.
 

Cesar Crespo

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When Sale and Houck come back and enter the rotation, the guys they displace become very good relievers, thus solving this hole.

Or, if they can't start, Sale and Houck become the relief help directly.

Btw, in his first rehab open (can't call it a start, can we?):

Tanner Houck (SP): 3 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 1 BB, 6 K (45 pitches)
There's Kaleb Ort in Worcester too. Currently has an 0.50 era in 18.0 ip, 10 hits, 8bb/25k.
 

cantor44

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There's Kaleb Ort in Worcester too. Currently has an 0.50 era in 18.0 ip, 10 hits, 8bb/25k.
It seems to me that across the board, the solutions are in house.

The Red Sox need better starting pitching. Chris Sale is the headline but right behind Sale is Tanner Houck and Garret Whitlock ready to step in and probably be as good as a top SP acquisition like Jon Gray or Matthew Boyd, minus any acquisition cost.

The Red Sox need a leadoff hitter, and probably another outfielder. And look, there is Duran, pushing his way into the big leagues.

The Red Sox probably need more production out of first base, but it looks like maybe Bobby Dalbec's improved performance could satisfy this need as well, and again I have as much confidence in Dalbec as Dalbec-like players who could be available like CJ Cron or Jesus Aguilar.

Honestly the only player on the trade market that I see as even all that interesting for this team would be Adam Frazier or maybe some additional relief depth. But I'd only be interested if the cost is low.
I agree that many of the answers will be in house just as you say ... Meanwhile, if - IF - the Sox theoretically had assets to trade to somewhat GFIN, I think they need to acquire a starting pitcher. Houck has had moments of real promise, but his total body of work does not suggest he'll be a front of the rotation starter. And we don't know how Sale's health will progress or what his stamina will be this year. Dalbec seems to be finding something. On other side, Arroyo is solid, and Duran on his way. Starting pitching, to me, is the trickier problem to solve ...
 
Last edited:

nvalvo

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I agree that many of the answers will be in house just as you say ... Meanwhile, if - IF - the Sox theoretically had assets trade to somewhat GFIN, I think they need to acquire a starting pitcher. Houck has had moments of real promise, but his total body of work does not suggest he'll be a front of the rotation starter. And we don't know how Sale's health will progress or what his stamina will be this year. Dalbec seems to be finding something. On other side, Arroyo is solid, and Duran on his way. Starting pitching, to me, is the trickier problem to solve ...
I wouldn’t trade Houck to patch up a roster this far behind Houston and Chicago. Both of those teams have four starters I’d pick to start a playoff game before anyone on our active roster — Eovaldi, I guess. If Sale comes back close to full strength, that helps a *ton*, but I’d really want to see legit #1/2 type pitching from both Sale and probably Rodriguez before I’d want to mortgage the future to buy for the 2021 Sox.

(Small trades, sure; I’m talking about Scherzer rentals, that sort of thing.)

We need a pipeline of starting pitching, because our window is opening, not closing.
 

cantor44

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I wouldn’t trade Houck to patch up a roster this far behind Houston and Chicago. Both of those teams have four starters I’d pick to start a playoff game before anyone on our active roster — Eovaldi, I guess. If Sale comes back close to full strength, that helps a *ton*, but I’d really want to see legit #1/2 type pitching from both Sale and probably Rodriguez before I’d want to mortgage the future to buy for the 2021 Sox.

(Small trades, sure; I’m talking about Scherzer rentals, that sort of thing.)

We need a pipeline of starting pitching, because our window is opening, not closing.
Completely agree. It's the conundrum of the season, though, because, if you make the post season, anything can happen (so make a move). But evaluating the talent against those two teams in particular, and it's more than a gap of a player or two (so stand pat). Sox rebuild ahead of schedule, yes ... though I suspect Bloom takes the middle path and acquires a solid starter or veteran bat, without giving up the key kids on the farm ....
 

RoDaddy

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The Red Sox need a leadoff hitter, and probably another outfielder. And look, there is Duran, pushing his way into the big leagues.
Expecting/hoping Duran can handle leadoff this year - if that's what you're suggesting - is very chancy. His last full season was AA Portland in 2019 when he really struggled after setting A+ on fire. Because of this, I really hope the organization makes sure his hitting is real b4 promoting him. I'm pretty convinced the new power is real but not as convinced the average is, let alone OBP needed for a leadoff guy. So to me, this is a hole that we may very well have to go outside the organization to fill - and if so, will likely require trading top prospects like a Downs or Jimenez.
 

JimD

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One factor to consider when thinking about trades is the team's upcoming 40-man roster crunch. Might as well cash in a few chips this summer if you can, rather than leaving guys unprotected next winter and possibly losing some of them.

Now, what those youngsters would fetch the Sox this July, I'll leave it up to smarter folks than me to figure out.
 

shaggydog2000

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Expecting/hoping Duran can handle leadoff this year - if that's what you're suggesting - is very chancy. His last full season was AA Portland in 2019 when he really struggled after setting A+ on fire. Because of this, I really hope the organization makes sure his hitting is real b4 promoting him. I'm pretty convinced the new power is real but not as convinced the average is, let alone OBP needed for a leadoff guy. So to me, this is a hole that we may very well have to go outside the organization to fill - and if so, will likely require trading top prospects like a Downs or Jimenez.
I would think Franchy would get called up first before Duran, which still wouldn't solve the leadoff hitter issue, but I agree that Duran would be likely to start low down in the order for quite some time just to take the pressure off of him and get a better evaluation of how he could transition to the majors, so he's not solving that issue either.
 

RedOctober3829

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If they bring Duran up, what’s the lineup?

Vs RHP
Duran LF
Verdugo CF
Martinez DH
Bogaerts SS
Devers 3B
Renfroe RF
Hernandez 2B
Dalbec 1B
Vazquez C

vs LHP
Arroyo 2B
Verdugo CF
Martinez DH
Bogaerts SS
Devers 3B
Renfroe RF
Dalbec 1B
Vazquez C
Duran LF
 

thestardawg

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If they bring Duran up, what’s the lineup?

Vs RHP
Duran LF
Verdugo CF
Martinez DH
Bogaerts SS
Devers 3B
Renfroe RF
Hernandez 2B
Dalbec 1B
Vazquez C
I think bringing Duran up and immediately inserting him as a leadoff hitter with no previous major league at bats is a pretty big recipe for failure.

I'd probably go something like this


Verdugo CF
Bogaerts SS
Martinez DH
Devers 3B
Renfroe RF
Hernandez 2B
Duran LF
Dalbec 1B
Vazquez C
 

RedOctober3829

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I think bringing Duran up and immediately inserting him as a leadoff hitter with no previous major league at bats is a pretty big recipe for failure.

I'd probably go something like this


Verdugo CF
Bogaerts SS
Martinez DH
Devers 3B
Renfroe RF
Hernandez 2B
Duran LF
Dalbec 1B
Vazquez C
My thought with Duran is that he's almost always been a leadoff hitter in the minors so he actually would feel more comfortable doing what he usually does. Combine that with the black hole that is the leadoff spot, I'd give it a try at least against RHP. I know in a small sample this year he's hitting LHP better than RHP, but I'd still bat him down the order versus LHP and leadoff vs. RHP to put him in the best possible place to succeed.
 

ookami7m

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Source: Connor Wong joining Red Sox today in Tampa Bay.
With Plawecki's hamstring injury (I only heard the call from Fleming on the radio so I haven't seen it) This isn't a surprise. Hopefully KP is back realtively quickly because Wong's offensive numbers are nothing to be stoked about: .148/.246/.433 in 16 games. It is only 64 ABs but not exactly lighting the world on fire. Obviously he won't be used very much, but any improvement on those numbers would be a gift.
 

DeadlySplitter

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Wong can run into one, hope for the best when he plays twice a week.

Looks like Duran isn't coming this week. I really don't think he'll be up before the trade deadline.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Do they? Have the Red Sox been further west than Dallas since Bloom became GM?
I'm sure RedOctober was referring to the franchise in general, not specifically Bloom.

Devers debuted in Seattle in 2017
Bogaerts debuted in San Francisco in 2013
Pedroia debuted in Anaheim in 2006

Just a quick sampling of well thought of prospects that were brought up because they were deemed ready as opposed to being called up to be an injury replacement (Youkilis, Ellsbury, pretty much every young pitcher, etc). Three different GM/President of Baseball Ops, all a similar philosophy of bringing guys up where he can debut with the least amount of attention from home.
 

JimD

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 29, 2001
8,681
It's getting more and more reminiscent of 2013
For that to happen twice in a generation. Much less a decade...

They have all the pieces in place and everything is working better than expected. If Sale/Houck/Duran/deadline pickup do what we hope, we could be legit division contenders and once you're in the tournament, randomness commences.
Another similarity is that there is no need to trade away truly valuable prospects for that one or two pieces to bolster a championship contender in the prime of its window. Chaim and the Gang can use their prospect depth to utilize assets who are surplus or are blocked, similar to how Ben used Jose Iglesias as the key piece to get Jake Peavy when Iglesias was clearly not going to be the everyday Sox shortstop with Xander on the horizon.
 

grimshaw

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SoSH Member
May 16, 2007
4,220
Portland
They are also 21-15 vs over .500 teams which is third best in the majors behind the Astros and Giants. Earlier in the season I assumed it was just a mirage, but they have managed to keep it up.

They have had bumps in the road (not on it) but then you look at Tampa and Chicago who have lost a combined 12 in a row.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
24,376
For that to happen twice in a generation. Much less a decade...

They have all the pieces in place and everything is working better than expected. If Sale/Houck/Duran/deadline pickup do what we hope, we could be legit division contenders and once you're in the tournament, randomness commences.
This is super exciting to me. That the Sox could be adding a dynamic outfielder, a solid pitcher, and a bonafide ace to their roster later in the season.

So far, we really couldn’t have asked for a better 2021 campaign.
 

bosockboy

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
19,863
St. Louis, MO
They are also 21-15 vs over .500 teams which is third best in the majors behind the Astros and Giants. Earlier in the season I assumed it was just a mirage, but they have managed to keep it up.

They have had bumps in the road (not on it) but then you look at Tampa and Chicago who have lost a combined 12 in a row.
7-0 against NYY/TB so far also.