The Raiders relocation thread (3/27 viva Las Vegas Raiders!!!)

Morgan's Magic Snowplow · Jan 28, 2016

I don't really see how UNLV, Adelson, and the Raiders quite mix but its fun to think about.

That site is right behind the MGM Grand. Every walk in Vegas is bigger than you think but it would definitely still be doable from the strip (about half a mile to the corner of the stadium site). The monorail station is right there too, which I guess is another plus.

Stitch01 · Jan 28, 2016

That's a nice solution with a bit of a fuck you to the league, which is nice.

mikeot · Jan 28, 2016

It makes me very uncomfortable to approve of anything when Sheldon Adelson is involved. Nonetheless...

GeorgeCostanza · Jan 28, 2016

Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
I don't really see how UNLV, Adelson, and the Raiders quite mix but its fun to think about.

That site is right behind the MGM Grand. Every walk in Vegas is bigger than you think but it would definitely still be doable from the strip (about half a mile to the corner of the stadium site). The monorail station is right there too, which I guess is another plus.

My very first visit to Vegas I fell victim to the distance perception. I was staying at Mandalay and stepped out on to the strip. Saw MGM grand and decided it didn't look very far away and headed for a walk that way. 45 minutes later, 3 gallons of sweat soaked into my clothes and its still off in the distance.

staz · Jan 28, 2016

Interesting, I was just at Brooklyn Bowl in the Linq Promenade last week. A stadium would fit between there and UNLV nicely.

That said, I wonder exactly how much trouble a 22 year old millionaire could get into as a member of the Las Vegas Raiders?

JimBoSox9 · Jan 28, 2016

GeorgeCostanza said:
My very first visit to Vegas I fell victim to the distance perception. I was staying at Mandalay and stepped out on to the strip. Saw MGM grand and decided it didn't look very far away and headed for a walk that way. 45 minutes later, 3 gallons of sweat soaked into my clothes and its still off in the distance.

Ahhh, the 4AM walk from The Palms to Harrahs - it's only down to the overpass and past Caesar's, after all!

This is such a no-brainer it makes my teeth hurt. If your safeguards are good enough, they're good enough with a team right in town. If they're not, they're not. Of course, the NFL is by far the worst pro league to be the first to take this plunge, but I hope Davis makes the league office choke on it.

geoduck no quahog · Jan 28, 2016

Just what the NFL needs: Dan Snyder 2.0

Oil Can Dan · Jan 28, 2016

I would love to see the Raiders in Vegas. If this is something Davis & Adelsin want to do without league support can they do it?

8slim · Jan 28, 2016

If the NFL is against it, I'm for it.

Gunfighter 09 · Jan 28, 2016

I want San Diego or Oakland at this point, but......holy fuck. The Las Vegas Raiders would be too perfect.
-Great for attracting Free Agents
-The Vegas Super Bowl would be spectacular
-Get to town on Saturday night, leave on Monday morning, gamble, party, football is quite a weekend.
-The Casinos would ensure the suites and premium seats were both super expensive and always full, this would create crazy revenue for the Raiders
-Vegas is a dirty, blue collar city, the Raiders are a dirty, blue collar team. Its a better fit, feel wise, than San Diego.
-This would be terrible for the Chargers. The Raiders would keep their SoCal fans, blunting the Chargers growth. Worse, imagine you are an LA based Pats fan and the Pats have the AFC West, with games in Vegas and LA. Are you going to to drive to Inglewood to see the Pats in Kroenke world, or are you going to make a weekend out of it and see your team in fucking Vegas?

If Anderson built the right stadium, it would compete with Inglewood, Jerrahworld, the SuperDome etc. for bowl games, concerts, etc. The best example I could think of would be something like UFC 250 or something like Maywheather/Pacquio in front of 70K

It aint going to happen, but damn that is exciting. I will say this, Mark Davis' dad handed him a terrible hand, but is doing shit to make it better. I appreciate the effort.

Sox and Rocks · Jan 29, 2016

8slim said:
If the NFL is against it, I'm for it.

This is where I'm at. They have the worst stadium and political climate to build a new stadium of any NFL team, yet the league doesn't seem to want to help them at all. Time for Al's son to channel his inner father and give Goodell and the rest of the league a much needed middle finger.

Harry Hooper · Jan 29, 2016

Gunfighter 09 said:
View attachment 1384
-Get to town on Saturday night, leave on Monday morning, gamble, party, football is quite a weekend.
-The Casinos would ensure the suites and premium seats were both super expensive and always full, this would create crazy revenue for the Raiders
-This would be terrible for the Chargers. The Raiders would keep their SoCal fans, blunting the Chargers growth.

I think these 3 reasons, plus the opportunity to poke the NFL in the eye, are going to make this an irresistible proposition for the Raiders. I'll be more surprised if it doesn't happen.

kenneycb · Jan 29, 2016

JimBoSox9 said:
Ahhh, the 4AM walk from The Palms to Harrahs - it's only down to the overpass and past Caesar's, after all!

This is such a no-brainer it makes my teeth hurt. If your safeguards are good enough, they're good enough with a team right in town. If they're not, they're not. Of course, the NFL is by far the worst pro league to be the first to take this plunge, but I hope Davis makes the league office choke on it.

Thank god gambling on hockey is extremely difficult because I don't trust a John Cooper-less NHL to do anything correct.

JimBoSox9 · Jan 29, 2016

Yeah, but the NHL has a ton less risk, because......well, nobody cares and there's not nearly the amount of money up for grabs. Sorry.

Lose Remerswaal · Jan 29, 2016

Isn't that plot a bit close to the end of the runways at McCarron? Going to make Shea/Citi seem like a library!

Average Reds · Jan 29, 2016

Lose Remerswaal said:
Isn't that plot a bit close to the end of the runways at McCarron? Going to make Shea/Citi seem like a library!

The answer would ne "no" even the stadium were to be placed right at the end of the runway, but the stadium would go in the larger section of the picture GF09 posted, which is not really close to the landing path. Sound might be an issue, but if the stadium is domed, no one will care.

The prospect of Adelson-as-savior is a hard one to swallow, but if you can get by that, this is such a perfect plan that there's no way the NFL approves it. Time for Mark to channel Al and get what he wants through the courts.

DJnVa · Jan 29, 2016

Oil Can Dan said:
I would love to see the Raiders in Vegas. If this is something Davis & Adelsin want to do without league support can they do it?

I don't think so. This move would have to be approved.

fairlee76 · Jan 29, 2016

Holy shit, I hope this happens. Echoing many of the statements above, the Raiders and Vegas are a great fit for one another image-wise and this would immediately vault (I would think) into one of the top destination trips for NFL fans. Besides heading to Lambeau, I can't think of a better way to spend a football weekend.

Trlicek's Whip · Jan 29, 2016

As echoed upthread, this is too perfect for the NFL to allow it without some middle-managing bullshit.

If the naming rights go to FanDuel or Draft Kings it'd be a nice pre-emptive strike against probable NFL pushback to paint their hypocrisy neon.

Harry Hooper · Jan 29, 2016

DrewDawg said:
I don't think so. This move would have to be approved.

The LA vote and other recent moves show the owners want to stuff their mouths with as much cash as possible. They will approve {demand?} the re-location as long as the arrangement includes plump revenue streams headed their way. The fact that it's the Raiders kind of makes it easier for big NFL sponsors to not defect over a team in Vegas.

kenneycb · Jan 29, 2016

JimBoSox9 said:
Yeah, but the NHL has a ton less risk, because......well, nobody cares and there's not nearly the amount of money up for grabs. Sorry.

Not sure why you're apologizing but, yes, I agree with that as well. There's a decent chance the NHL gets to Vegas before any other sport though.

edmunddantes · Jan 29, 2016

Harry Hooper said:
The LA vote and other recent moves show the owners want to stuff their mouths with as much cash as possible. They will approve {demand?} the re-location as long as the arrangement includes plump revenue streams headed their way. The fact that it's the Raiders kind of makes it easier for big NFL sponsors to not defect over a team in Vegas.

Why would big sponsors defect over a connection to Vegas? There really isn't anything there for the sponsors to worry about that is any worse than the current issues facing the NFL, and none of them stayed away (or did anything for that matter) for very long even then (domestic violence Ray Rice/Peterson cases).

ALiveH · Jan 29, 2016

As a Vegas local, here's the buzz I'm hearing from people who know people...

Vegas needs more sports teams. It is the fastest growing metro in the country and 2M people already live here. The only pro sports team here is minor league baseball The Area 51ers. Summer League is hugely popular here. It would be yet another reason for tourists to come to the Strip which is the engine for the entire local economy. Like has been noted, tourists will plan their Vegas trips around when their local team comes to town, plus the local population is big enough to support a team already.

The main obstacles to overcome is the proximity & ease of sports gambling and the fear of another Pete Rose / Donaghy debacle.

The NHL is getting closer to being a sure thing. You can already pre-order season tickets. Gambling is not seen as much of a concern for this sport for some reason.
The NBA isn't happening because the memory of Donaghy is still too fresh. This was discussed a bit when the Clippers were in play, but Silver seemed dead set against it.
Baseball has some logistical issues what with >100 degree heat nearly every single day of the baseball season. Plus doesn't seem like any expansion or franchise movement is happening.

The NFL is the next logical choice after NHL. Gambling is a pretty big issue with the League. Even though gambling drives a huge massive amount of interest in the sport (especially if you include fantasy & daily fantasy). The league is just really scared of even having any sort of risk whatsoever of a gambling scandal. The opportunity is ever-present, what with a sports book <5 minute drive from anywhere in the city and ~200 team employees. If any of them get tempted and bet it can create a bad scandal.

naclone · Jan 29, 2016

"There's more than a few people across the street interested in this last play." - AL Michaels on the first LV Raiders SNF broadcast

Bowhemian · Jan 29, 2016

ALiveH said:
As a Vegas local, here's the buzz I'm hearing from people who know people...

Vegas needs more sports teams. It is the fastest growing metro in the country and 2M people already live here. The only pro sports team here is minor league baseball The Area 51ers. Summer League is hugely popular here. It would be yet another reason for tourists to come to the Strip which is the engine for the entire local economy. Like has been noted, tourists will plan their Vegas trips around when their local team comes to town, plus the local population is big enough to support a team already.

The main obstacles to overcome is the proximity & ease of sports gambling and the fear of another Pete Rose / Donaghy debacle.

The NHL is getting closer to being a sure thing. You can already pre-order season tickets. Gambling is not seen as much of a concern for this sport for some reason.
The NBA isn't happening because the memory of Donaghy is still too fresh. This was discussed a bit when the Clippers were in play, but Silver seemed dead set against it.
Baseball has some logistical issues what with >100 degree heat nearly every single day of the baseball season. Plus doesn't seem like any expansion or franchise movement is happening.

The NFL is the next logical choice after NHL. Gambling is a pretty big issue with the League. Even though gambling drives a huge massive amount of interest in the sport (especially if you include fantasy & daily fantasy). The league is just really scared of even having any sort of risk whatsoever of a gambling scandal. The opportunity is ever-present, what with a sports book <5 minute drive from anywhere in the city and ~200 team employees. If any of them get tempted and bet it can create a bad scandal.

I don't get why this is an issue. I mean you can gamble on any sport pretty much anywhere in the country, as evidenced by Rose/Donaghy. The entire state of Nevada has legal gaming, not just Vegas, and there are plenty of sports teams in the surrounding states that are within a couple hundred of miles of the Nevada border.
Not to mention the online gaming aspect, and I guess you could add Fan Duel/Draft Kings to that as well.

ALiveH · Jan 29, 2016

Yeah, those are valid counter-arguments. Remember that all the decision-makers are >50 years old. So the perception is that it's just so easy & close here. Like I said, there's a sports book literally within 5 minute drive of everywhere in the city. And, an NFL team will have ~150 "restricted" employees (plus thousands visiting from other cities). Any one of them mess up and it can create a bad look.

The solution will end up being that no sports book will allow gambling on any games by the local team. I think that will be the ultimate obviously logical compromise that would make the deal happen. (still have to worry about local guys betting on non-local games which is a big no-no but not as catastrophic PR wise as gambling on games directly involved in)

Stevie1der · Jan 29, 2016

ALiveH said:
Yeah, those are valid counter-arguments. Remember that all the decision-makers are >50 years old. So the perception is that it's just so easy & close here. Like I said, there's a sports book literally within 5 minute drive of everywhere in the city. And, an NFL team will have ~150 "restricted" employees (plus thousands visiting from other cities). Any one of them mess up and it can create a bad look.

The solution will end up being that no sports book will allow gambling on any games by the local team. I think that will be the ultimate obviously logical compromise that would make the deal happen. (still have to worry about local guys betting on non-local games which is a big no-no but not as catastrophic PR wise as gambling on games directly involved in)

That's a really interesting solution that I hadn't considered before. But what happens if the new Las Vegas Raiders make the Super Bowl? Will the Vegas sports books be willing to essentially punt on one of their most lucrative days of the year?

Marciano490 · Jan 29, 2016

I don't get the sports book fear. Why is it more likely than an employee will show up in person to bet at a sports book and risk being recognized as opposed to betting on a dummy account online from the privacy of his own home? Or are they scared of mobsters strong-arming RBs into fumbling?

ALiveH · Jan 29, 2016

Whether or not it's justified, the NFL has pretty much always been against any association with gambling. Here's some suggested reading:

http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/las-vegas/nfl-shows-no-interest-games-proposed-unlv-stadium
"In an email to the Las Vegas Review-Journal, NFL spokesman Brian McCarthy wrote sports gambling in Las Vegas is the reason the NFL would not likely get involved in holding a Pro Bowl or approving preseason games here."

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/07/nfl-other-sports-leagues-sue-new-jersey-over-gambling/
NFL & Other leagues sue NJ over gambling

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/09/mara-says-gambling-will-keep-new-jersey-from-getting-another-super-bowl/
Mara says gambling will keep NJ from getting Super Bowl

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2014/11/05/las-vegas-pro-sports-major-league-soccer-nba-nhl-mlb/18562353/

uncannymanny · Jan 29, 2016

"This report was brought to you by Draft Kings."

HakkyNH · Jan 29, 2016

Average Reds said:
The answer would ne "no" even the stadium were to be placed right at the end of the runway, but the stadium would go in the larger section of the picture GF09 posted, which is not really close to the landing path. Sound might be an issue, but if the stadium is domed, no one will care.

As an aviation engineer that handles airspace, obstructions, and penetrations to protected surfaces on a daily basis, this naturally piqued my interest. Part 77 of the Federal Aviation Regulations is a giant pain in the ass, and at large commercial service airports like McCarran, it is very difficult to build anything within (under) the approach, let alone a NFL football stadium. The extreme NW portion of that site could be used for some development, possibly even an NFL stadium, but it looks like there's a residential neighborhood there and there would likely be setbacks, pushing things closer to the airport. I won't bore people with the airspace details, but I'd wager (NPI) big bucks against this particular site being the one in LV, if the Raiders or any other NFL team moves there.

Harry Hooper · Jan 29, 2016

HakkyNH said:
As an aviation engineer that handles airspace, obstructions, and penetrations to protected surfaces on a daily basis, this naturally piqued my interest. Part 77 of the Federal Aviation Regulations is a giant pain in the ass, and at large commercial service airports like McCarran, it is very difficult to build anything within (under) the approach, let alone a NFL football stadium. The extreme NW portion of that site could be used for some development, possibly even an NFL stadium, but it looks like there's a residential neighborhood there and there would likely be setbacks, pushing things closer to the airport. I won't bore people with the airspace details, but I'd wager (NPI) big bucks against this particular site being the one in LV, if the Raiders or any other NFL team moves there.

What about digging a bowl so that the field level is below street level? Water table underground shouldn't be a big problem in Vegas.

Vegas Sox Fan · Jan 29, 2016

This feels to me like Adelson using the Raiders to gain momentum to get approval for public funds to build his stadium. It also feels like Davis using Adelson to gain leverage with NFL owners to get a stadium development deal in Oakland. In short, probably nothing to see here.

brandonchristensen · Jan 29, 2016

As a Las Vegan, I would love to have a team in the AFC here.

Gunfighter 09 · Jan 29, 2016

So the below actually happened. Mark looks quite dapper relative to the other guy in the picture.

One popular theory that is being kicked around Raiders fans is that if the NFL successfully freezes Davis out of both LA and Las Vegas, Mark might decide he wants to fight about it, specifically to get to Vegas. The thinking is that with a guy like Adelson behind him, and the fact that the NFL would be forcing him to give up an opportunity for a free stadium, Davis might have a chance of winning in court. No to mention the fact that by pissing off Adelson, the NFL risks US Congress suddenly becoming interested in PED use by NFL players and the concussion risk of playing football.

Las Vegas SandsVerified account‏@LasVegasSands
Our chairman Sheldon Adelson had a great visit w/ Mr. Mark Davis. Looking forward to future conversations. #Respect

leftfieldlegacy · Jan 30, 2016

I can see a downside to this. The casinos would buy up season tickets and then give them to the out of town fans staying in the casino hotel and playing at the casino tables. Tough to build a fan base or a home field advantage when every week half the fans in the stands are comp'd high rollers who are rooting for the visiting team.

ALiveH · Jan 30, 2016

Adelson - looking good for 82...

You are correct that home field advantage will be close to non-existent. Tourists will plan their trips to Vegas around when their home team comes to visit. But, except for a small number of highest rollers, those tourists will pay for their own tickets. The days of getting everything comp'd are largely over - casinos are really using lots of sophisticated analytics to really try hard to only comp stuff when it's profitable.

Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt · Jan 30, 2016

The vast majority of fans of any franchise hardly ever attend games in Emerson - or in PERSON, thanks, autocorrect! (To be fair, they also don't attend games in Emerson.) Were the Raiders to actually move to Vegas, I would be shocked if the people of LV didn't embrace the team with open arms and black-and-silver everything, whether or not they got tickets to the eight home games.

NortheasternPJ · Jan 30, 2016

Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt said:
The vast majority of fans of any franchise hardly ever attend games in Emerson - or in PERSON, thanks, autocorrect! (To be fair, they also don't attend games in Emerson.) Were the Raiders to actually move to Vegas, I would be shocked if the people of LV didn't embrace the team with open arms and black-and-silver everything, whether or not they got tickets to the eight home games.

I agree. It's 8-12 days a year it's not like they are asking people to buy 81 home games plus playoffs. I think Vegas would be great for the NFL. I have to imagine Vegas residents would love it as its something vastly different form of entertainment than they have now, UNLV excluded.

Who wouldn't travel to see the Pats in Vegas? It can't be any worse for the NFL than Jacksonville. They are basically guaranteed to sell Out every game no matter how bad the local team is.

Can you imagine the issues players would get into though? Manziel to Las Vegas!

Fred not Lynn · Jan 30, 2016

It doesn't really matter where you play your games when anyone with a smart phone has a casino in their pocket anyway...

WayBackVazquez · Jan 30, 2016

GeorgeCostanza said:
My very first visit to Vegas I fell victim to the distance perception. I was staying at Mandalay and stepped out on to the strip. Saw MGM grand and decided it didn't look very far away and headed for a walk that way. 45 minutes later, 3 gallons of sweat soaked into my clothes and its still off in the distance.

That's a little bit more than a half-mile walk. You might want to reconsider your conditioning regimen. And yes, I know what the heat is like; I have visited Vegas multiple times a year for more than two decades now.

Gunfighter 09 said:
Worse, imagine you are an LA based Pats fan and the Pats have the AFC West, with games in Vegas and LA. Are you going to to drive to Inglewood to see the Pats in Kroenke world, or are you going to make a weekend out of it and see your team in fucking Vegas?

Many of us would do both, but of those who choose one, obviously far more would choose the option that doesn't add hundreds to thousands of dollars to the cost, and hours to a day's worth of travel time. An L.A. AFC team will not have any trouble filling the stadium with transplants from places like Boston, NY, and Pitt when their teams come to town.

GeorgeCostanza · Jan 30, 2016

WayBackVazquez said:
That's a little bit more than a half-mile walk. You might want to reconsider your conditioning regimen. And yes, I know what the heat is like; I have visited Vegas multiple times a year for more than two decades now.

Many of us would do both, but of those who choose one, obviously far more would choose the option that doesn't add hundreds to thousands of dollars to the cost, and hours to a day's worth of travel time. An L.A. AFC team will not have any trouble filling the stadium with transplants from places like Boston, NY, and Pitt when their teams come to town.

It's actually 3/4 of a mile and if you factor in leaving the casino and stopping in and out of Luxor, Excalibur, whatever else caught my fancy it's at least a mile. Also I appreciate your concern regarding my physical conditioning. It's sweet of you. At least you got a good humblebrag out of it.

WayBackVazquez · Jan 30, 2016

What was the humblebrag, that it doesn't take me in excess of 45 minutes to walk little more than a half mile?

Gunfighter 09 · Jan 30, 2016

WayBackVazquez said:
Many of us would do both, but of those who choose one, obviously far more would choose the option that doesn't add hundreds to thousands of dollars to the cost, and hours to a day's worth of travel time. An L.A. AFC team will not have any trouble filling the stadium with transplants from places like Boston, NY, and Pitt when their teams come to town.

1. You should try and enjoy life more
2. I don't think the Hypothetical Vegas Raiders need 50.1% of those transplants to succeed. The point is that a Vegas based Raiders team will keep all of their current substantial SoCal based ticket buyers and a portion of the SoCal based transplant fans that are much more likely to travel to Vegas than Oakland. Additionally, the allure of Vegas is such that it will even attract some LA based transplants that would chose it over Kroenkeworld. But not a majority, so, great nitpick.

3. Having worked there a few times, any level of outdoor physical activity in the Vegas summer is going to cover you in sweat such that you feel disgusting when you are tying to gamble, eat or party. That's seems like a really weird place to question someone's physical prowess.

Marceline · Jan 30, 2016

Nothing's a straight line walk in Vegas. A half mile in reality is probably double that or more. I stayed at the Mirage for a conference at Caesars (right next door) and it took me 15 minutes to get from my hotel room to the conference each day.

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