The Poll: Is Wyc burning Brad- Should CBS be torched at season's end?

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Red wouldn’t have had trouble getting them to consistently play hard though.

Red would struggle too with his best player, who is still figuring things out at 23 getting a bad virus that has clearly impacted his conditioning and play, two of his other key players each missing significant time with injuries and a bench/rotation that we all agree sucks.

Stevens may well take the fall for their mediocre season but the real story is the number of minutes lost to the virus as well as various injuries and a dismal bottom half of a roster. I can cite supporting info but I will simply say that at one point not to long ago, we were watching Jeff Teague playing some other sport in a Celtics uniform as well as Javonte Green being marketed as a core part of the rotation.

Big picture, nobody needs to or should be fired imo but if anyone deserves criticism for how the season has gone, its one Daniel Ray Ainge. On the other hand, anything that motivates him to try harder is a huge plus. I suspect we find out how far Wyc is willing to go during the off-season.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Red would struggle too with his best player, who is still figuring things out at 23 getting a bad virus that has clearly impacted his conditioning and play, two of his other key players each missing significant time with injuries and a bench/rotation that we all agree sucks.

Stevens may well take the fall for their mediocre season but the real story is the number of minutes lost to the virus as well as various injuries and a dismal bottom half of a roster. I can cite supporting info but I will simply say that at one point not to long ago, we were watching Jeff Teague playing some other sport in a Celtics uniform as well as Javonte Green being marketed as a core part of the rotation.

Big picture, nobody needs to or should be fired imo but if anyone deserves criticism for how the season has gone, its one Daniel Ray Ainge. On the other hand, anything that motivates him to try harder is a huge plus. I suspect we find out how far Wyc is willing to go during the off-season.

I agree. I blame Ainge for this product and The personnel on the floor......then I blame Brad for the lackluster effort of that personnel. I don’t know how Covid manages to make Tatum not seem to give two shits about competing these past handful of games but hey we learn more about this virus everyday.

Tomorrow night we are in an ideal double motivation spot so let’s see how Brad’s team responds. They should be angry about their performance tonight and are facing a team who smoked them on Sunday in Charlotte. This is usually a blowout win for the good guys in this league. Check back here in 24 hours if we lose.

 

[lovegtm]

Yes. Brad Stevens should get more out of Jaylen Brown, Marcus Smart, a guy recovering from a reportedly bad case of COVID, some rookies and young guys who everyone agrees are deeply flawed and guys like Parker who were out of the league a few weeks ago. Seriously, Red might have had a hard time getting this lineup to win.

They were playing a team whose average age of the starters was 20 years old and which was on a back-to-back, and had lost 14 games in a row.

This is coming off a game in which everyone was healthy, playing a team missing 2 of its best players, in which the Celtics showed exactly the same lack of focus (I actually thought the OKC game was a bit better).

They may turn it around (running out of time), and if they do, I will update my opinion. No decisions can be made until after the season anyway.

On the other hand, how hard is it to just say "this team shows a remarkable lack of passion/focus on both ends?" There are multiple reasons for this (missed games is a big one), but at a certain point, your coach has to take some blame given that instilling passion and focus is ~80-95% of an NBA head coach's job.

If the coach can't do that, what is the value-add that he's providing?

This isn't the NFL. I know that "OK wise guy, who would they find who could do better?" is supposed to be some kind of checkmate question, but the answer is "literally anybody whom the players will listen to." If, after the season, the Celtics think that that person is Brad, you keep him. If not, he's done. You certainly don't keep a tuned-out coach around for another season because he does nice out-of-timeout plays.

 

[lovegtm]

Just to follow up re OKC: they had lost previous 14 by an average of 21, and have lost back-to-backs by an average of 30 this year.

 

[mauf]

I didn’t watch last night, but the box score describes a different game than the anti-Brad contingent here. The numbers say the defensive effort was there (27 turnovers) and the C’s would’ve won going away with halfway-decent shooting (they were 22% from behind the arc on 49 attempts). I get that numbers can be deceiving, but really?

 

[Eddie Jurak]

There are multiple reasons for this (missed games is a big one), but at a certain point, your coach has to take some blame given that instilling passion and focus is ~80-95% of an NBA head coach's job.

I don't think I buy this. This isn't college basketball.

I didn’t watch last night, but the box score describes a different game than the anti-Brad contingent here. The numbers say the defensive effort was there (27 turnovers) and the C’s would’ve won going away with halfway-decent shooting (they were 22% from behind the arc on 49 attempts). I get that numbers can be deceiving, but really?

Their defense was inconsistent. Very good at times, MIA at other times. There was a long stretch in the middle of the game where their defense was awful.

OKC's approach to this game was to go under every screen and concede the open 3 to the Celtics, who happily took and missed them. In the 3rd quarter there was a long stretch where it seemed like the Celtics never got the ball inside the 3 point line - the whole possession would be perimeter dribling and passing followed by missing an open 3.

 

[lovegtm]

I didn’t watch last night, but the box score describes a different game than the anti-Brad contingent here. The numbers say the defensive effort was there (27 turnovers) and the C’s would’ve won going away with halfway-decent shooting (they were 22% from behind the arc on 49 attempts). I get that numbers can be deceiving, but really?

With all due respect and in the nicest tone, watching the game mattered here.

The 27 turnovers were because OKC is a G-League team on a b2b. The 119 points were because the Celtics repeatedly let them get middle with no help at the nail.

Yes, if the team had shot a bit better from 3 we'd be talking about how this was a sloppy win instead of one the worst losses of the season. But many of the 3s came with no effort to run the offense or force rotation.

Again, what value is your head coach adding if, ~60 games into the season, the team has yet to show a defensive identity for more than 3 or 4 games in a row?

 

[128]

Red would struggle too with his best player, who is still figuring things out at 23 getting a bad virus that has clearly impacted his conditioning and play, two of his other key players each missing significant time with injuries and a bench/rotation that we all agree sucks.

Stevens may well take the fall for their mediocre season but the real story is the number of minutes lost to the virus as well as various injuries and a dismal bottom half of a roster. I can cite supporting info but I will simply say that at one point not to long ago, we were watching Jeff Teague playing some other sport in a Celtics uniform as well as Javonte Green being marketed as a core part of the rotation.

Big picture, nobody needs to or should be fired imo but if anyone deserves criticism for how the season has gone, its one Daniel Ray Ainge. On the other hand, anything that motivates him to try harder is a huge plus. I suspect we find out how far Wyc is willing to go during the off-season.

Mr. Spock would applaud your logic, which is unassailable, but there's more going on this season than just injuries, COVID and poor roster construction (for which Danny must take the blame). Almost from the first game, this team has lacked the grit that's been the C's trademark for most of Stevens' time in Boston.

Yes, the C's missed a ton of open looks last nite, but they also came out sluggishly and let OKC set the tone for the game. I'm not saying Stevens need to be hired, but a large part of his job is to get his team ready to play, right?

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

With all due respect and in the nicest tone, watching the game mattered here.

The 27 turnovers were because OKC is a G-League team on a b2b. The 119 points were because the Celtics repeatedly let them get middle with no help at the nail.

Yes, if the team had shot a bit better from 3 we'd be talking about how this was a sloppy win instead of one the worst losses of the season. But many of the 3s came with no effort to run the offense or force rotation.

Again, what value is your head coach adding if, ~60 games into the season, the team has yet to show a defensive identity for more than 3 or 4 games in a row?

When the other teams go under the screen, the Cs have to hit the open shots or there won't be much going into the paint. OKC was taking the paint away. I don't know how well this system works on a regular basis but when a team shoots 8 for the first 42 threes, it works well.

On defense, they were getting beat to the middle of the floor and their bigs other than Murder Kornet were non-existant. But where else was Brad going to go? He basically played everyone. Parker was a sieve and couldn't keep up with OKC's drive and dish offense. And when the Cs put their best defensive team in, they finally got stops but on the offensive end they kept clanging 3Ps so it didn't matter.

I thought the team played hard but played well. We can debate whether they played smart (I imagine most posters would come down on the "no" side of that question).

 

[EL Jeffe]

I think people tend to discount the toll the weird 2020 COVID season has had on the season. The Celtics played into late September, and then had to turn around and start a season in December. That's CRAZY. You look at the teams that made deep 2020 bubble runs - Miami (bad), Boston (bad & hurt), Lakers (meh & hurt). I don't think that's a coincidence. Denver has been pretty good, but now Murray is hurt. A lot of these guys didn't get much of a chance to recuperate after a really trying (physically and emotionally) 2020 season. And then everyone acts all shocked when 2021 goes to shit. Like, these are real people. Yeah, they're world-class athletes but they're still human. They still need an offseason to recharge, recuperate, and work on their games. They didn't get that this season. I'm willing to cut them some slack.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

When the other teams go under the screen, the Cs have to hit the open shots or there won't be much going into the paint. OKC was taking the paint away. I don't know how well this system works on a regular basis but when a team shoots 8 for the first 42 threes, it works well.

They were taking - and missing - a lot of early clock threes in which their ballhandlers never got inside the 3 point line or passed to someone inside the line. Yes, they were usually open shots but if "take the first open shot" isn;t working, failing to try something different is criminal.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

I think people tend to discount the toll the weird 2020 COVID season has had on the season. The Celtics played into late September, and then had to turn around and start a season in December. That's CRAZY. You look at the teams that made deep 2020 bubble runs - Miami (bad), Boston (bad & hurt), Lakers (meh & hurt). I don't think that's a coincidence. Denver has been pretty good, but now Murray is hurt. A lot of these guys didn't get much of a chance to recuperate after a really trying (physically and emotionally) 2020 season. And then everyone acts all shocked when 2021 goes to shit. Like, these are real people. Yeah, they're world-class athletes but they're still human. They still need an offseason to recharge, recuperate, and work on their games. They didn't get that this season. I'm willing to cut them some slack.

I think this is right. If this was an ordinary season, I'd be thinking about major changes in coaching and/or management. As things currently stands, I think that would be an overreaction to a uniquely weird season.

 

[BigSoxFan]

I think almost everyone is willing to apply some kind of discount to this season. All we're effectively doing is arguing over the discount rate. I think it's quite possible that there is a correlation between bubble time and 2021 performance/injuries but that's far from proven. Could be a ton of other factors at play with each team that we just aren't privy to.

In any event, I feel this thread is a year early. If we're sitting here with these same struggles this time next year, then I think the conversation has to be had. This is obviously an imperfect roster but Stevens has done more with less in the past. I'm not giving him a free pass this year. He hasn't been good. Danny's roster construction hasn't been good. Assuming an early flame out this year in the playoffs, they have a big summer ahead of them.

 

[mostman]

I think people tend to discount the toll the weird 2020 COVID season has had on the season. The Celtics played into late September, and then had to turn around and start a season in December. That's CRAZY. You look at the teams that made deep 2020 bubble runs - Miami (bad), Boston (bad & hurt), Lakers (meh & hurt). I don't think that's a coincidence. Denver has been pretty good, but now Murray is hurt. A lot of these guys didn't get much of a chance to recuperate after a really trying (physically and emotionally) 2020 season. And then everyone acts all shocked when 2021 goes to shit. Like, these are real people. Yeah, they're world-class athletes but they're still human. They still need an offseason to recharge, recuperate, and work on their games. They didn't get that this season. I'm willing to cut them some slack.

I too am willing to provide a lot of slack. However, CV19, by most accounts, doesn’t make you stupid. This team has a tendency to do really dumb shit. Marcus Smart opened the game with what might have been his worst quarter of the season. If a coach can’t get one of his players to not run down the court 3 possessions in a row and throw up an early clock deep three, what can he do? Maybe Brad puts up with it because he wants to win and winning means not pissing off your starters, but this team looks leaderless. They look like a bunch of guys out there playing pickup and trying to get their own numbers in. Boston is 27 out of 30 in team assist rate. CV19 doesn’t cause that. I don’t think.

 

[jon abbey]

I can cite supporting info but I will simply say that at one point not to long ago, we were watching Jeff Teague playing some other sport in a Celtics uniform

Interestingly Teague's WS/48 is the highest it's been in 4 years since moving to MIL, he is a guy we actually have data on with both the Celtics and another team this year.

 

[EL Jeffe]

I too am willing to provide a lot of slack. However, CV19, by most accounts, doesn’t make you stupid. This team has a tendency to do really dumb shit. Marcus Smart opened the game with what might have been his worst quarter of the season. If a coach can’t get one of his players to not run down the court 3 possessions in a row and throw up an early clock deep three, what can he do? Maybe Brad puts up with it because he wants to win and winning means not pissing off your starters, but this team looks leaderless. They look like a bunch of guys out there playing pickup and trying to get their own numbers in. Boston is 27 out of 30 in team assist rate. CV19 doesn’t cause that. I don’t think.

You don't think being physically and mentally fatigued correlates to bad & sloppy play? Did Miami also just become spontaneously dumb, too?

Marcus Smart has been brutal, no doubt. But he's also a max effort type of guy, and the condensed nature of 2020-2021 would likely take more of a toll on that sort of player than just about anyone else. This team strikes me as one that's been running on fumes for quite a while. A team running on fumes is going to look disinterested and chaotic. CBS (nor Spolestra) forgot how to coach. None of these guys forgot how to play basketball. I think they're just completed worn down.

 

[Strike4]

You don't think being physically and mentally fatigued correlates to bad & sloppy play? Did Miami also just become spontaneously dumb, too?

There's also a lot going on behind the scenes and I think the Celtics are affected more than other teams right now. Like, I personally think Tatum is showing so much frustration because of the COVID situation during a year when he's making a leap (it's ruining it for him) and frustration that injuries/COVID have taken away his supporting cast (kind of hanging him out to dry sometimes).

 

[Jimbodandy]

All this talk of grit and passion, I thought that I accidentally landed in the Bruins forum.

Don't we have to fire the goalie before the coach or something? Wait, it's the elderly defenseman. No, it's the guy who's supposed to score 40 but doesn't here. Fuck, my Bruins fan script is probably outdated.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

All this talk of grit and passion, I thought that I accidentally landed in the Bruins forum.

Don't we have to fire the goalie before the coach or something? Wait, it's the elderly defenseman. No, it's the guy who's supposed to score 40 but doesn't here. Fuck, my Bruins fan script is probably outdated.

When Julien was on his hot seat back in the day were fans asking, “Who are we going to replace him with that is better?” He’s a guy who took his team to two Stanley Cups in the previous seven years.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Interestingly Teague's WS/48 is the highest it's been in 4 years since moving to MIL, he is a guy we actually have data on with both the Celtics and another team this year.

Well if you're going to take partial years, he had a stretch with MIN last year where he had a higher WS/48. It's also been 12 games.

It's interesting to note that Teague in MIL has flipped his shooting stats: in BOS, he was shooting great from 3P and terrible from 2P; with MIL he's shooting .250 from 3P and .514 from 2P. His DRtg is also tied for second worst on the team (tied with Augustin; behind Forbes).

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Danny's roster construction hasn't been good. Assuming an early flame out this year in the playoffs, they have a big summer ahead of them.

I think part of the roster construction issue has to do with salaries and future tax bills. It is not normal for a contender to have something like 10 guys on a rookie contract. DA has been trying to get rotation young players so he can manage salaries and not have to try to sign one-year veterans during the Js' window.

Given the injuries, the younger guys have been taking bigger roles that they might ordinarily have and no one has stepped up. And to me, it's not surprising that the Cs aren't cohesive on defense given that they've started - what did they say last night - 17 different guys with 20 different starting lineups?

I agree that nothing is going to be done this year but if this keeps going next year, Brad will be on the hot seat.

 

[HowBoutDemSox]

When the other teams go under the screen, the Cs have to hit the open shots or there won't be much going into the paint. OKC was taking the paint away. I don't know how well this system works on a regular basis but when a team shoots 8 for the first 42 threes, it works well.

There are other basketball strategies than running a high pick and roll every possession. That Brad’s comments are essentially “well the high pick and roll wasn’t working, so of course we sucked” isn’t a sign in his favor. How about some off ball screens to get guys open or force the defense to rotate? Jaylen should thrive doing that, even if it winds up with a midrange shot, since he can hit those. How about throwing the ball to the big in the paint to then either make a play or find an open guy as the wings make off ball movement/the defense doubles? Tristan Thompson should be able to run that. I’m totally willing to give a general mulligan for both coach and players due to the weirdness of this season, lack of practice time, shortened off-season, constant injuries, and overall Covid situation, but we can still expect slightly more than we’re getting from this team most of the time.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

There are other basketball strategies than running a high pick and roll every possession. That Brad’s comments are essentially “well the high pick and roll wasn’t working, so of course we sucked” isn’t a sign in his favor. How about some off ball screens to get guys open or force the defense to rotate? Jaylen should thrive doing that, even if it winds up with a midrange shot, since he can hit those. How about throwing the ball to the big in the paint to then either make a play or find an open guy as the wings make off ball movement/the defense doubles? Tristan Thompson should be able to run that. I’m totally willing to give a general mulligan for both coach and players due to the weirdness of this season, lack of practice time, shortened off-season, constant injuries, and overall Covid situation, but we can still expect slightly more than we’re getting from this team most of the time.

The Cs do all this.

I mean it was just the game before where they threw the ball into TT like the first three possessions. Not sure I want TT posting up Moses Brown.

Brad has run the same offense scheme every year he's been here. He's tweaked some actions and added/subtracted as he sees fit but the basic scheme still exists. He's not going to be able to implement a new scheme this late in the year. The scheme hass worked before in the past; the scheme worked really well with TL playing; and we're all hoping it works again when everyone is healthy.

But right now, there's a blueprint on how to beat the Cs. Versus Cs offense, pack the paint, have a couple of guys concentrate on the Js and see if the other guys can beat you. Versus Cs defense, drive and kick and get the Cs into rotation.

TL will really help (it's actually kind of frightening how much of the Cs season rests on him). Having a consistent, shortened rotation should help in the playoffs too, particularly on defense - it's hard to play rotational basketball when you use 20 different starting lineups.

And if not, well, that means this year sucks but I'm sure Brad is going to get a normal year with a normal training and normal practices before he gets canned.

 

[Hendoo]

Look I know we have assigned different reasons for failures past but has anyone else noticed the every other year pattern the team has taken for a a while now? Deep playoff run, suck, deep playoff run, suck. I do see some of the exact same disconnected lack of effort we were blaming on Kyrie in this year’s season as well as the poor shot selection and every man for himself hero iso ball from 2 years ago for instance. Maybe coincidence, but it is starting to look like a pattern to me.

 

[radsoxfan]

In any event, I feel this thread is a year early. If we're sitting here with these same struggles this time next year, then I think the conversation has to be had. This is obviously an imperfect roster but Stevens has done more with less in the past. I'm not giving him a free pass this year. He hasn't been good. Danny's roster construction hasn't been good. Assuming an early flame out this year in the playoffs, they have a big summer ahead of them.

This is where I land as well. Generally I'm a fan of both Ainge and Stevens and this hasn't been either ones best season.

Between the COVID factor and the relatively brief poor performance (this was nearly a finals team very recently), I don't think moving on after this season would be the way to go.

We need some further development from the Tatum and Jaylen, particularly all-around play and leadership, along with improving the middle of the roster in the offseason. When players get hurt and the 8th man is forced to become the 6th man on the depth chart, it would help if that 8th man isn't giving you G-league (or worse) production.

The only possible way I can possibly see moving on from Stevens this offseason is if there is some serious behind the scenes chemistry issue that no one knows about.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Interestingly Teague's WS/48 is the highest it's been in 4 years since moving to MIL, he is a guy we actually have data on with both the Celtics and another team this year.

This is the best post of what is otherwise a full on adult temper tantrum thread. Bravo!

 

[Jed Zeppelin]

When Julien was on his hot seat back in the day were fans asking, “Who are we going to replace him with that is better?” He’s a guy who took his team to two Stanley Cups in the previous seven years.

This may have been your point but if not, it's worth pointing out that the Bruins have been mostly very good under Cassidy and he took them to the Finals in just his second full season (a series they should have won but for poor officiating and some untimely injuries). Nobody really misses Claude.

 

[bsj]

This is a 90% Ainge problem and a 10% Stevens problem IMO.

The only way I replace Stevens is if there is some magical coach out there that suddenly makes the truly elite level of FA want to play in Boston.

 

[Jimbodandy]

This may have been your point but if not, it's worth pointing out that the Bruins have been mostly very good under Cassidy and he took them to the Finals in just his second full season (a series they should have won but for poor officiating and some untimely injuries). Nobody really misses Claude.

Both of these posts make me nostalgic for my bruins fan days.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

This is a 90% Ainge problem and a 10% Stevens problem IMO.

The only way I replace Stevens is if there is some magical coach out there that suddenly makes the truly elite level of FA want to play in Boston.

Even if that magical coach existed, Cs don't have cap space for an elite FA right now.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

Red would struggle too with his best player, who is still figuring things out at 23 getting a bad virus that has clearly impacted his conditioning and play, two of his other key players each missing significant time with injuries and a bench/rotation that we all agree sucks.

Stevens may well take the fall for their mediocre season but the real story is the number of minutes lost to the virus as well as various injuries and a dismal bottom half of a roster. I can cite supporting info but I will simply say that at one point not to long ago, we were watching Jeff Teague playing some other sport in a Celtics uniform as well as Javonte Green being marketed as a core part of the rotation.

Big picture, nobody needs to or should be fired imo but if anyone deserves criticism for how the season has gone, its one Daniel Ray Ainge. On the other hand, anything that motivates him to try harder is a huge plus. I suspect we find out how far Wyc is willing to go during the off-season.

Do you ever hold anyone accountable for anything? Do you ever have an actual take other than "Wait and see?"

 

[Cesar Crespo]

There's also a lot going on behind the scenes and I think the Celtics are affected more than other teams right now. Like, I personally think Tatum is showing so much frustration because of the COVID situation during a year when he's making a leap (it's ruining it for him) and frustration that injuries/COVID have taken away his supporting cast (kind of hanging him out to dry sometimes).

If you actually believe this to be true, a large part of the problem is Jayson Tatum being a selfish baby. The C's are affected by it more only because their personnel is weaker minded. That's what people are saying when they say this shit.

Every team is going through this.

 

[Light-Tower-Power]

The only possible way I can possibly see moving on from Stevens this offseason is if there is some serious behind the scenes chemistry issue that no one knows about.

This. Unless we find out that there is something rotten behind the scenes that is festering under Brad, he gets a pass from me this year. Not that he has been great, but looking through non-green colored glasses I think at the end of the day this year has been too screwy to make a huge move like firing him.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

Also expecting this team to get better with improvements from Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown is a recipe for disaster and expecting way too much out of JT and JB. This team needs to surround JT and JB with better players, not expect them to get drastically better.

 

[SteveF]

I just think the roster isn't that good, and that includes Tatum and Brown. They both take too many bad shots and aren't efficient enough. Brown is a poor off ball defender. Neither player passes well enough. Both fail to make appropriate passes when driving to the rim.

Obviously Ainge mismanaged his draft picks. He had too many picks and not enough roster slots and that has caused him to select players he might not otherwise have picked over the years.

I think Stevens needs to revisit his assumptions about the talent he has and the kind of offense he runs. He doesn't have an efficient isolation scorer and he doesn't really have a shot creating point guard that can initiate offense. They probably need to figure out ways to get easier baskets with cuts and transition.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

I just think the roster isn't that good, and that includes Tatum and Brown. They both take too many bad shots and aren't efficient enough.

Tatum's TS% is .569. The league average is .571. Jaylen's is .593.

So you might have a case with Tatum, as he's always been below the league average besides last year. Jaylen Brown though? What?

Most people in the game thread whine that Jaylen needs to be shooting more and I agree.

 

[SteveF]

Jaylen Brown though? What?

A lot of Brown's offense comes in transition where you'd expect a high TS%. He takes too many long 2s. He should be a guy with a TS% well north of 60% given the kinds of shots he gets.

Maybe I'm not crediting him enough for his transition game, but I think he could be much better in the half court.

Edit: His transition % is lower than I was expecting, though obviously still high (22.3%). I should probably temper my criticisms. He is in the top 20 for TS% among forwards. That's not All-Star, but that's pretty good.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

A lot of Brown's offense comes in transition where you'd expect a high TS%. He takes too many long 2s. He should be a guy with a TS% well north of 60% given the kinds of shots he gets.

Maybe I'm not crediting him enough for his transition game, but I think he could be much better in the half court.

He shoots some but he also makes them at a high clip. I also think maybe you are understating how hard it is to be over 60%, There aren't many players getting as many shots as Jaylen Brown with a better TS%.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2021_advanced.html#advanced_stats::ts_pct

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Do you ever hold anyone accountable for anything? Do you ever have an actual take other than "Wait and see?"

I do not have the authority or, frankly enough information, to hold Brad Stevens accountable. You clearly feel differently and you and I will never, ever agree on this point. Let's move on.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

I do not have the authority or, frankly enough information, to hold Brad Stevens accountable. You clearly feel differently and you and I will never, ever agree on this point. Let's move on.

You also have no opinion on Nesmith or Langford. It's ok to have an opinion but ok. Will move on.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

You also have no opinion on Nesmith or Langford. It's ok to have an opinion but ok. Will move on.

I don't? I actually do but I don't feel the need to share my reactions to everything in real time.

This is not additive to the topic of firing Brad Stevens because the Celtics are playing badly. Please return your focus to that endeavor.

 

[reggiecleveland]

My take is two guys who have been missing during rough patches provide things that are critical to this team.

Marcus is the tough guy competitor and veteran presence that inspires, takes pressure off the Js on defensive end.

Timelord is the Uber Athlete that makes the other team think twice about the paint at both ends.

Yes other team are missing guys, but these tow are irreplaceable for the Cs.

Also the MOST important guy had covid and is probably like a Tommy John pitcher and may not be himself until next year.

 

[chilidawg]

Also expecting this team to get better with improvements from Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown is a recipe for disaster and expecting way too much out of JT and JB. This team needs to surround JT and JB with better players, not expect them to get drastically better.

I think just the opposite. Growth from Brown and Tatum is the most important thing if this team is to be a championship level team. You need high level players to compete at that level. Filling in around them comes second.

 

[JCizzle]

This is a 90% Ainge problem and a 10% Stevens problem IMO.

This is where I'm at too. This is a roster of pieces that don't really fit together. In addition, a lot of recent moves seem pretty bad in hindsight. He basically traded Hayward for Fournier this year. Rozier for Kemba two years ago. Horford for nothing. Held on to the SAC & MEM picks that ultimately ended up in the late lottery and didn't deliver on either pick. Guys like Semi and Grant are expected to be key bench contributors. Meh.

I think both guys need to have a long look in the mirror about how they're managing this team. Of course many of the players deserve equal --if not greater -- blame for generally poor effort and atrocious shot selections, but that's a subject for different threads I guess

 

[Cesar Crespo]

I think just the opposite. Growth from Brown and Tatum is the most important thing if this team is to be a championship level team. You need high level players to compete at that level. Filling in around them comes second.

The team's probably competing for a top 3 spot if they didn't rely so much on Semi, Grant, Langford, etc. The team will look a lot better when Kemba is gone and they can actually build around JT and JB.

 

[teddykgb]

The team's probably competing for a top 3 spot if they didn't rely so much on Semi, Grant, Langford, etc. The team will look a lot better when Kemba is gone and they can actually build around JT and JB.

I think they’re short two great shooters. Semi, Grant, Langford are all poor shooters. Semis stats are OK but he doesn’t provide real threat to do anything unless the defense breaks down and forgets about him. They need true 3 and D guys who aren’t trying to be primary options but are reliable night to night scorers

media: Fournier should have helped with this minus the D part and they looked a lot better when he was briefly good there before Covid. Too many shots fall to Smart and the guys above and you just don’t get consistency there

 

[Deathofthebambino]

The team's probably competing for a top 3 spot if they didn't rely so much on Semi, Grant, Langford, etc. The team will look a lot better when Kemba is gone and they can actually build around JT and JB.

Assuming Kemba plays out his contract here (who else is going to take him?), there's a non-zero chance that JT and/or JB follow him out the door when they hit FA after their current deals.

I think that's the part everyone keeps missing when we talk about giving rope to Ainge or Stevens. These stars we have aren't under lifetime contracts, and we all know NBA players have the ability to choose when they want to leave and where they want to go. IF the C's continue to fuck up this season, and things don't improve next season, we may be completely rebuilding again after that. You can't wait and hope in the NBA, IMO. You have to be in either GFIN mode, or tank mode. Everything in between is purgatory.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

I think they’re short two great shooters. Semi, Grant, Langford are all poor shooters. Semis stats are OK but he doesn’t provide real threat to do anything unless the defense breaks down and forgets about him. They need true 3 and D guys who aren’t trying to be primary options but are reliable night to night scorers

media: Fournier should have helped with this minus the D part and they looked a lot better when he was briefly good there before Covid. Too many shots fall to Smart and the guys above and you just don’t get consistency there

Yeah, we were all really hoping (unrealistically) that Nesmith would be one of those guys this year. He may develop into that guy but probably not until year 3.

This team would look incredibly different right now if they ended up with Haliburton/Bane instead of Nesmith/PP. I realize we had no chance to draft Haliburton, just showing the difference 2 players would make.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

Assuming Kemba plays out his contract here (who else is going to take him?), there's a non-zero chance that JT and/or JB follow him out the door when they hit FA after their current deals.

I think that's the part everyone keeps missing when we talk about giving rope to Ainge or Stevens. These stars we have aren't under lifetime contracts, and we all know NBA players have the ability to choose when they want to leave and where they want to go. IF the C's continue to fuck up this season, and things don't improve next season, we may be completely rebuilding again after that. You can't wait and hope in the NBA, IMO. You have to be in either GFIN mode, or tank mode. Everything in between is purgatory.

By build around, I mean sign Bradley Beal and fill the team with vets. No rebuild, well you would hope no rebuild with that level of talent.

I agree re: Ainge and Stevens.

 

[radsoxfan]

Also expecting this team to get better with improvements from Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown is a recipe for disaster and expecting way too much out of JT and JB. This team needs to surround JT and JB with better players, not expect them to get drastically better.

I don’t think “drastic” improvements should be expected or needed. But age appropriate development should continue. They are not their peak yet, we hope.

Brown can hopefully improve his D, Tatum can hopefully continue to improve his overall game. They both can improve their leadership and contributions to winning basketball.

But generally I agree, their improvement will be incremental most likely. The team also just needs better players, the middle of the roster is not championship caliber right now