nobody labeled it a "bridge year" to start...but it certainly has evolved into one (unless the recent play is for real)
The Poll: Is Wyc burning Brad- Should CBS be torched at season's end?
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What bridge year narrative are you referring to?
I've seen all the crazy thoughts that popped into people's heads, turned into facts to them and then posts here however I don't recall that one. The only consistent counter to all the takes - and there are a ton of assumptions built into each one (e.g. feeling as if we have a good window into the team's chemistry via media reports - and recall that the generally well regarded KOC got burned by this - he has some access too!) has been the injury one. Their top four players have missed the following number of games this year and its hard to argue it hasn't had an impact.
Tatum = 6
Brown = 4
Smart = 19
Walker = 20
In short, unless you are referring to some posters punting on the season in the midst of their struggles - which is an entirely reasonable position to take - its hard to recall anyone who seriously was arguing that this year would be a bridge before it all started.
He's saying people are retroactively calling it a bridge year now and are pretending like it was all along in defense of Brad Stevens and Danny Ainge. Not that they actually thought it was a bridge year at the beginning of the season. You are proving his point.
If this team didn't underperform their preseason win forecast after being at the top of player games lost, that would be unusual.
What has been proven? I don't even understand what point HRB is trying to make. Nobody is retroactively calling anything.
Finally, compared to multiple posts definitively saying Stevens is gone or Smart will be traded for sure (not saying these things wont happen but they are stated as faits accompli) etc etc, it seems like calling this year lost or a bridge season is kind of mild. YRMV.
Not important enough to search back but multiple posters have responded to prior posts with “This was always going to be a bridge year” or something of the like.
I did refer to "bridge year" in some posts for a couple of reasons:
1.) I never felt this team as constructed after it lost Hayward would be able to compete w/ the Nets, and that was pre-Harden. I still feel that way; the Nets would likely win in 4 or 5. I don't believe that is new info.
2.) Given some of the circumstances, and Wyc's stated need to reset the luxury tax this season, I never felt it made sense to go all in at the trade deadline. FWIW, I think what they did was fine.
3.) The team has underperformed expectations, as have other teams such as the Heat. I do think CoVid and injuries have had a lot to do with the team's struggles. Given the above, it makes sense to consider this particular season a development one for the J's and try to come back strong next year with a retooled roster.
I do think if Ainge runs it back with essentially the same roster, and that roster struggles to a 20-20 start again, seats should get warm. But we're not there yet. Call it a bridge year if you want.
1.) I never felt this team as constructed after it lost Hayward would be able to compete w/ the Nets, and that was pre-Harden. I still feel that way; the Nets would likely win in 4 or 5. I don't believe that is new info.
2.) Given some of the circumstances, and Wyc's stated need to reset the luxury tax this season, I never felt it made sense to go all in at the trade deadline. FWIW, I think what they did was fine.
3.) The team has underperformed expectations, as have other teams such as the Heat. I do think CoVid and injuries have had a lot to do with the team's struggles. Given the above, it makes sense to consider this particular season a development one for the J's and try to come back strong next year with a retooled roster.
I do think if Ainge runs it back with essentially the same roster, and that roster struggles to a 20-20 start again, seats should get warm. But we're not there yet. Call it a bridge year if you want.
that the bridge year excuse became a thing as the season played out as a defense for Stevens and Ainge. It wasn't a thing in the preseason or when the team started 8-3 and Tatum and Brown were both looking like top 15 players. It became a thing when the team was still playing .500 ball in March and April.
You don't have to agree with his point but saying the bridge season thing wasn't a thing at the beginning of the year was his point.
It never became a "thing" imo.
Emoting after every loss under the guise of "analysis" however...
There were a couple of posters talking about this being a bridge year before the season and early on when things were rough. Based mostly on the theory that KW wasnt getting back anywhere near his old self / JB + JT have not made the leap / young'uns weren't ready.
I don't know if that is considered a "narrative" but there are posts that show up if people want to search for them.
Correctamundo
I think the board as a whole (ex-game threads) has been pretty rational about the Celtics' underperformance this season.
It's been a helluva a year, and this team has been the most impacted by COVID in the NBA. Other teams in the EC have made leaps: Nets added Harden and Doc/Embiid/Morey have the Sixers playing great. Expectations have been lowered, but the JayRob mob are still getting better, so the future is bright.
I don’t know if Brad should be held accountable for this, but one of contributing factors with the Celtics’ missed COVID games is off-court behavior, right? I get that this is a young team but it strikes me as laughable that someone like Lebron or Curry would miss games due to health and safety protocols.
I believe my first use of the phrase was discussing possible trade deadline deals. However, I was never particularly high on this team's regular season record or chances of competing against the Nets:
Well you are correct and I am wrong. I missed the bridge year talk before the season.
I can't even get the past correct so now you see why I don't do definitive takes. I have zero visibility on how the future will play out.
Hello, straw man argument.
You can add Evan Fournier, who has missed 6 games and counting, to the list.
Karalis said on today's Locked On C's podcast that Tatum still uses an inhaler before games - the impact of Covid on his season goes beyond the 6 games he missed.
It is pretty clear that as a team they have had a lot of headwinds, from no offseason after playing deep into the playoffs, to Covid (they lead the league in man games lost due to Covid and their best player is still dealing with aftereffects), to other injuries, to a decision by ownership to stay below the tax line, to an odd personnel situation at the start of the year.
A lot of these factors aren't going to persist going forward. If I'm going to bite the bullet and fire Brad, it isn;t going to be after this kind of weird year.
Na, the vast bulk of their missed covid games have been from guys getting covid, rather than partying and having to do contact tracing or whatever.
Interestingly enough the latest CsTalk podcast from Forsberg touched on this: https://art19.com/shows/celtics-talk. Forsberg had Enes Kanter on for an extended chat - which, BTW, is a pretty interesting listen IMO - and Enes was saying that NBA protocols are that you really shouldn't see anyone outside of one's organization at all. Kanter is so strict about this he won't even go out to dinner with players from another team.
We don't know for sure but it wouldn't be surprising if some of the CV infections on the Cs were due to players having contacts with non-Cs personnel. The question is whether it was something as innocuous as a barber or whether they are having contacts with outside people in ways they shouldn't. I think DA said on one of his shows that the Cs can't police what the players do on their own time so I wouldn't lay this down on Brad but maybe just chalk it up to young people who don't really understand the necessity of being super-strict about the protocols 24 hours a day.
No, Obie took over in midseason one year after the team completely quit on him.
Oh yeah. I’m in the camp that when I team quits on its coach it is on the coach for failing to lead them.
Slick Rick was straight out of central casting, and that book was pretty canned.
I wonder where he lifted PhD from?
Yeah. Well nobody has any idea yet what to do with bubble results. Or this season either.
If spread evenly across those 7 years, I believe that would have made him the second highest paid coach in the NBA. And the highest paid Men’s college basketball coach.
I am shocked he wouldn’t take that to jump to IU.
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/celtics-coach-brad-stevens-turned-down-7-year-70-million-offer-to-coach-indiana-university-per-report/
Give Brad credit, sounds like he really is Masshole.
It's been a tough year but I would absolutely love it if Brad is the coach to lead the Jays and the Celtics to an NBA title.
Give Brad credit, sounds like he really is Masshole.
It's been a tough year but I would absolutely love it if Brad is the coach to lead the Jays and the Celtics to an NBA title.
C’s have won 6 straight. Tatum is shooting 47% from 3 during that stretch, on nearly 8 attempts per game.
Not sure if that’s luck evening out, or if Tatum took time to get back to 100% physically after his COVID absence. Or maybe he actually responded to being subtly called out by Danny and Brad. Regardless, Brad looks a lot smarter with his best player playing up to expectations.
Not sure if that’s luck evening out, or if Tatum took time to get back to 100% physically after his COVID absence. Or maybe he actually responded to being subtly called out by Danny and Brad. Regardless, Brad looks a lot smarter with his best player playing up to expectations.
Also the team is finally defending with energy. That's critical to make things work with low-offense roleplayers. I know they gave up points to GSW and Portland, but a lot of that was guys on the other team going nuts with shotmaking.
I thought the Minnesota game was a low point, but they've been very good since then, in ways that seem sustainable. (Particularly with several top 7 players coming back soon).
Agrees on the bad stretches and calls. They seem to have moved past that, which is both good management and maturity.
As far as the shotmaking goes, even very young guys know to tip their hat when Steph or Dame hits absurd shots over good defense. That shit is gonna happen. The defense has improved a lot, but those guys sometimes just can't be stopped.
(The following is only applicable if they don't finish the season well, where "well" = aren't in the play-in games and play competively against Milwaukee, or beat Atlanta/NYK.)
If they keep playing like this, I don't see how you bring Brad back. Other teams have had injuries, and you don't see this kind of rolling over. People can blame the back of the bench, but most of those guys can play defense, so you should at least be able to grit out some games.
The Celtics stars have been insanely inconsistent mentally and just seem to go missing on both ends for long periods.
At a certain point, it's nice to think your coach is "good", but 90% of the job as the NBA coach of a perennial playoff team is to get them to try hard. Brad has failed miserably at that so far this year, and I don't think it's really debatable.
I know the follow-up question is "well, who could they get who would be better?"
Answer: literally anyone who the players listen to more, which is a pretty f-ing low bar at this point, and one that Stevens has failed to hit 2 of the last 3 years (pending this season's finish).
If they keep playing like this, I don't see how you bring Brad back. Other teams have had injuries, and you don't see this kind of rolling over. People can blame the back of the bench, but most of those guys can play defense, so you should at least be able to grit out some games.
The Celtics stars have been insanely inconsistent mentally and just seem to go missing on both ends for long periods.
At a certain point, it's nice to think your coach is "good", but 90% of the job as the NBA coach of a perennial playoff team is to get them to try hard. Brad has failed miserably at that so far this year, and I don't think it's really debatable.
I know the follow-up question is "well, who could they get who would be better?"
Answer: literally anyone who the players listen to more, which is a pretty f-ing low bar at this point, and one that Stevens has failed to hit 2 of the last 3 years (pending this season's finish).
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They played deep into last season - so had less of an offseason than other teams. They have lost more man games and man games to Covid than other teams. Their best player had Covid and was still affected by it long after he came back. Their big deadline acquisition had a couple of strong games and then got Covid, missed 9 straight, and is only now working his way back.
Most of this isn't usual NBA stuff. I think it would be a mistake to fire Brad over such as fucked up season.
I'd agree with this more if they were grittily competing on D and just getting beat with bad offense due to personnel. They've just been non-competitive for long stretches consistently, however.
I will caveat that the past few weeks have been much better in this regard, so I'm reserving judgement for how the rest of the season goes.
Clearly, whatever is going on with the team is not merely about available talent. I just don't don't think firing the coach is the answer.
Hmmm, why is that? Who else has the job of getting the most out of available talent?
"Guy whose performance should be evaluated by how much he is getting out of available talent" is about the best description of an NBA head coach I can think of. Certainly more important than ATO play design.
Today is the midpoint of a stretch with 5 games in 7 days. How much “grit” do you expect a team with depth issues to show in such a stretch?
They’re 9-3 on the month. They’ll be ok.
As I said, I'll hold off full evaluation till the end of the year.
I'm not sure why it's so hard to say that the Celtics have been shit defensively this year, with personnel that should be FAR more challenged on the other end.
They’re 12th in points allowed per 100 possessions and 12th in opponent FG%. Among their six guys who have played at least 1000 minutes, two are plus defenders (Tatum, Smart), two are liabilities (Kemba, Pritchard), and two are a mixed bag (Brown, Thompson) — and calling TT a mixed bag might be generous at this point. I don’t think being slightly above-average statistically represents an underachievement — it’s about what you’d expect from the talent on hand, maybe even slightly better.
Now, if you want to say it’s on Brad that Jaylen hasn’t blossomed into the plus defender that a player with his physical gifts should be, then that’s a fair point — but if you’re judging CBS on Jaylen’s development, you have to be happy on balance, as I don’t think any of us expected two years ago that Jaylen’s offensive game would blossom as rapidly as it has, even as all of us expected better from him on D.
I think firing a coach because he struggled to lead the team through a situation that will literally never happen again is not wise.
Why not fire Danny Ainge? He is the buyer of the groceries. Maybe he put together a toxic mix.
I’m ready. Let’s have this conversation. The signals are becoming a pattern. If your coach can’t at least get guys to play hard and with some passion, he’s either poor at his job, or has lost the team. I’m not sure which it is here, but it’s not working.
Yes. Brad Stevens should get more out of Jaylen Brown, Marcus Smart, a guy recovering from a reportedly bad case of COVID, some rookies and young guys who everyone agrees are deeply flawed and guys like Parker who were out of the league a few weeks ago. Seriously, Red might have had a hard time getting this lineup to win.
Red wouldn’t have had trouble getting them to consistently play hard though.