The Poll: Is Wyc burning Brad- Should CBS be torched at season's end?

Should Brad be fired as Celtics HC?

  • Yes, no ifs and or buts

  • Yes, but only if they miss the post-season

  • Yes , and I'd fire Danny too

  • No

  • Other Yes-specify

  • Other No-specify

  • Other


Results are only viewable after voting.

Eddie Jurak

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God forbid someone try to make a prediction about the future based on incomplete information, but mine is:
1. Brad is not fired over the summer, regardless of the season's results.
2. There are major roster shakeups.
3. If the team has the same problems after ~20-30 games next year, he gets fired.
I agree with #1 and #3. Regarding #2, are you predicting Jaylen or Jayson gets moved? Those are the only 'major shakeups' I see that are feasible. (No one is going to want Kemba.) I think that they will mostly run it back.
To be fair, people who have played significant amounts of poker are MUCH more comfortable acting/analyzing in incomplete information environments.

I'd go so far as to say that information is always incomplete, and that trying to avoid that through waiting is futile.
There are different kinds of incomplete information. In poker, aren't all of the unknown's "known unknowns?"
 

lovegtm

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I agree with #1 and #3. Regarding #2, are you predicting Jaylen or Jayson gets moved? Those are the only 'major shakeups' I see that are feasible. (No one is going to want Kemba.) I think that they will mostly run it back.
There are different kinds of incomplete information. In poker, aren't all of the unknown's "known unknowns?"
For #2...no, I seriously doubt that will open. I think people overrate how hard it would be to move Kemba, but there are also a lot of Smart+stuff permutations that would be on the table imo.

I agree that poker is a defined set of unknowns, and I think that's pretty analogous to what we're talking about here. Things like:
- "Has the team tuned Brad out?"
- "Has lack of practice+summer affected what the Celtics do in particular?"
are unknown to us, but the space of these things isn't super wacky.

To me, unknown unknowns are things no one has even posited, like Tatum losing sleep because Brad's children are prank-calling Deuce at 3 in the morning.
 

Eddie Jurak

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I agree that poker is a defined set of unknowns, and I think that's pretty analogous to what we're talking about here. Things like:
- "Has the team tuned Brad out?"
- "Has lack of practice+summer affected what the Celtics do in particular?"
are unknown to us, but the space of these things isn't super wacky.

To me, unknown unknowns are things no one has even posited, like Tatum losing sleep because Brad's children are prank-calling Deuce at 3 in the morning.
"What is the impact of a literally once-in-NBA-history pandemic that led to a shortened and fucked up offseason, our best player and our key trade deadline pickup getting sick and feeling the aftereffects long after their return, and to a NBA high number of man games lost?" should not be put in the same category as anything that would occur in any game of chance that is defined by exact probabilities, IMO.
 

lexrageorge

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For #2...no, I seriously doubt that will open. I think people overrate how hard it would be to move Kemba, but there are also a lot of Smart+stuff permutations that would be on the table imo.

I agree that poker is a defined set of unknowns, and I think that's pretty analogous to what we're talking about here. Things like:
- "Has the team tuned Brad out?"
- "Has lack of practice+summer affected what the Celtics do in particular?"
are unknown to us, but the space of these things isn't super wacky.

To me, unknown unknowns are things no one has even posited, like Tatum losing sleep because Brad's children are prank-calling Deuce at 3 in the morning.
Taking a deeper dive into the poker analogy:

I will say that while we on this forum do not know the answer to the above questions, I can say with certainty that Ainge/Wyc absolutely know the answer to the first, and Ainge and Stevens should have a good read on the answer to the second. What the people in charge should or will do with that information is harder to predict; hence that's why we have fan run message boards.

A harder thing to know is the growth projection of this very young roster. What do the Celtics really have in Langford, Nesmith and Pritchard? And how can they fit in with the Jay's longer term? Where do Tatum and Brown end up in the spectrum of really good to generational NBA players? Even the best basketball minds in the NBA struggle with those questions.
 

lovegtm

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Taking a deeper dive into the poker analogy:

I will say that while we on this forum do not know the answer to the above questions, I can say with certainty that Ainge/Wyc absolutely know the answer to the first, and Ainge and Stevens should have a good read on the answer to the second. What the people in charge should or will do with that information is harder to predict; hence that's why we have fan run message boards.

A harder thing to know is the growth projection of this very young roster. What do the Celtics really have in Langford, Nesmith and Pritchard? And how can they fit in with the Jay's longer term? Where do Tatum and Brown end up in the spectrum of really good to generational NBA players? Even the best basketball minds in the NBA struggle with those questions.
Yeah, all analogies are imperfect, but the latter questions are a good springboard into how hard this all is, and how even the team is dealing with very uncertain info (although I'd argue the domain of that info is somewhat restricted).
 

Jimbodandy

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"What is the impact of a literally once-in-NBA-history pandemic that led to a shortened and fucked up offseason, our best player and our key trade deadline pickup getting sick and feeling the aftereffects long after their return, and to a NBA high number of man games lost?" should not be put in the same category as anything that would occur in any game of chance that is defined by exact probabilities, IMO.
Yeah that's kind of where I've been all season.

That doesn't mean that the players haven't tuned Brad out. Maybe they have. And if so, yeah Danny should do something.

But it does mean that the typical evidence that we would use to judge this (up and down play, defensive incohesiveness, appearance of "lack of effort") may not be reliable.

Maybe Tatum and Smart throw the ball away too often because they're covid fatigued still and are trying to conserve energy. Maybe the defensive cohesiveness is shit because they've had like three practices since the pandemic started, and the team is filled with developmental guys that aren't old enough to rent cars.

This is why I keep beating the Miami and Toronto drum. People love Nurse and (especially) Spoelstra. Those teams are young and playing like crap also. Yeah, maybe it's all three coaches gone to shit at once. Someone smarter than I can run run those odds too.
 

chilidawg

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Even the coach and GM are acting on incomplete information. It's a continuum, we try to gather as much information as possible (some people try harder than others) to form an opinion, hopefully realizing the strength or weakness of the info we have.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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"What is the impact of a literally once-in-NBA-history pandemic that led to a shortened and fucked up offseason, our best player and our key trade deadline pickup getting sick and feeling the aftereffects long after their return, and to a NBA high number of man games lost?" should not be put in the same category as anything that would occur in any game of chance that is defined by exact probabilities, IMO.
On the last CelticsBeat podcast with Abby, they talked a bit about this. They also mentioned that in a normal year, playoffs would have started by now.

Abby also said some interesting things about this year, the Celtics, and then about COVID. One of her main points is that JT and JB are learning how hard it is to be the "Man" in the NBA. She also talked about a conversation she had with Scal, and that Scal doesn't like what this season is doing to players. Scal said that given the amount of games in this season, it's just not realistic to expect everyone to go 100% every night; it's just not possible. Finally, Scal has heard from players that they'd rather play B2B with 2 days' off following that because they get an actual day off. With all of the B2Bs, if there's only one day between games, the players don't ever really get a day off because they have to go into the facility and get tested and do other work.

We don't really understand what this season is doing to players even apart from whether they came down with COVID, particularly the players who made a long run in the bubble this year.

Starts around the 30:40 minute mark and goes until about 39 minutes here: https://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/5/d/7/5d7b8134686f02e8/Celtics_Beat_w__Abby_Chin_4_25_21.mp3?c_id=101708858&cs_id=101708858&expiration=1619791272&hwt=43eb13ec780b367204dc5026063e0f8d
 

Deathofthebambino

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Over the last 2 years, Brown is hitting 39.4% of his 3s on 6.4 attempts a game (287/728). His career mark is up to .380.

For his career, he's hitting 45.1% of his 10-16ft shots and 40.0% of his 16-3. Get ready to recalibrate.
Over the last 18 games, Brown is shooting .513/.438/.807 on 19 field goal attempts per game and a ridiculous 8.9 3pa's per game. 43.8% on 8.9 attempts over 18 games is ludicrous. He's averaging 26.1ppg and 6.7rpg during this stretch.

Jaylen is making a serious fucking leap on offense.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Over the last 18 games, Brown is shooting .513/.438/.807 on 19 field goal attempts per game and a ridiculous 8.9 3pa's per game. 43.8% on 8.9 attempts over 18 games is ludicrous. He's averaging 26.1ppg and 6.7rpg during this stretch.

Jaylen is making a serious fucking leap on offense.
And yet he can drop 20 in one quarter and somehow get only one shot in the next.
 

Cesar Crespo

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And yet he can drop 20 in one quarter and somehow get only one shot in the next.
Happens all around the league, otherwise people would be scoring 60+ a night.

It's possible the other teams start to focus on him more after he scores 20 in a quarter, thus leading to one shot the next.
 

lexrageorge

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Yeah, all analogies are imperfect, but the latter questions are a good springboard into how hard this all is, and how even the team is dealing with very uncertain info (although I'd argue the domain of that info is somewhat restricted).
To be fair, the question of "are the players tuning out Stevens" is not necessary a binary or obvious answer in all cases.

If Tatum or Brown (or their agents) were calling Ainge and say "I cannot play for this guy anymore", that would be an obvious indicator. But my assumption is that in many cases the signs of players failing to respond to their coach are far more subtle. Every locker room has issues; the 2008 Celtics had well documented issues between Rondo and Ray Allen. Every team that goes through losing streaks has endured "blowing off sessions" in the locker room after a game. The harder question to answer is whether a coach is the best choice for a particular team going forward. In terms of difficulty and uncertainty, that question is similar to the ones I posed earlier about the growth projections of young players.

For whatever reason, Doc Rivers wasn't the right coach for the Kawhi-George Clippers in the playoff bubble. Despite the fact that he was the perfect coach for the 2008 Celtics, and also appears to be the answer for the Simmons-Embiid Sixers. I still think Stevens is the right coach for this team, and I believe Ainge and Wyc believe that as well. At least until next season.
 

Cesar Crespo

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To be fair, the question of "are the players tuning out Stevens" is not necessary a binary or obvious answer in all cases.

If Tatum or Brown (or their agents) were calling Ainge and say "I cannot play for this guy anymore", that would be an obvious indicator. But my assumption is that in many cases the signs of players failing to respond to their coach are far more subtle. Every locker room has issues; the 2008 Celtics had well documented issues between Rondo and Ray Allen. Every team that goes through losing streaks has endured "blowing off sessions" in the locker room after a game. The harder question to answer is whether a coach is the best choice for a particular team going forward. In terms of difficulty and uncertainty, that question is similar to the ones I posed earlier about the growth projections of young players.

For whatever reason, Doc Rivers wasn't the right coach for the Kawhi-George Clippers in the playoff bubble. Despite the fact that he was the perfect coach for the 2008 Celtics, and also appears to be the answer for the Simmons-Embiid Sixers. I still think Stevens is the right coach for this team, and I believe Ainge and Wyc believe that as well. At least until next season.
No one has thrown a towel in Stevens face. That's usually a pretty big tell. :ninja:

Brad isn't being fired this offseason. The only way that was feasible is if the team went on a tailspin and didn't even reach the play in game. That would have been a chicken and beer level collapse and not very realistic. But it was an option in the poll so I voted for it.

Also, no one here knows if he lost the team or not. If he did, he needs to be fired. I would hope everyone agrees with that.

I also think people make a lot of excuses for Brad Stevens. Even if he's the right coach for the team, he has some pretty big flaws he needs to work on.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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To be fair, the question of "are the players tuning out Stevens" is not necessary a binary or obvious answer in all cases.

If Tatum or Brown (or their agents) were calling Ainge and say "I cannot play for this guy anymore", that would be an obvious indicator. But my assumption is that in many cases the signs of players failing to respond to their coach are far more subtle.
You make a good point. The question isn't whether Brad has lost "the team": it's really a question of whether Brad has lost JT and JB. I'm sure we all agree that if JB and JT are behind Brad, he's staying. And if Brad loses both of them, he's gone.

The interesting permutation is what happens if Brad loses one of JB/JT but not the other.
 

Cesar Crespo

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You make a good point. The question isn't whether Brad has lost "the team": it's really a question of whether Brad has lost JT and JB. I'm sure we all agree that if JB and JT are behind Brad, he's staying. And if Brad loses both of them, he's gone.

The interesting permutation is what happens if Brad loses one of JB/JT but not the other.
You get rid of the coach before you get rid of a player the caliber of JB/JT. Then if JB/JT continue to be an issue on coach 2, you trade them. I think it would be more interesting if he lost Marcus Smart.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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You get rid of the coach before you get rid of a player the caliber of JB/JT. Then if JB/JT continue to be an issue on coach 2, you trade them. I think it would be more interesting if he lost Marcus Smart.
I don't think there would be any problem for the Cs to move Marcus if he had a falling out with Brad but JB & JT wanted Brad to stay.

I doubt it would happen like that - players usually side with players - but then we get into the above scenario.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I don't think there would be any problem for the Cs to move Marcus if he had a falling out with Brad but JB & JT wanted Brad to stay.

I doubt it would happen like that - players usually side with players - but then we get into the above scenario.
You are probably right. It is curious though because I think even the biggest Stevens supporters would say CBS's trade value is a late 1st round pick but Smart would be the one on his way out.

Coaches have less trade value but more "value" than average rotation players.
 

Jimbodandy

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You are probably right. It is curious though because I think even the biggest Stevens supporters would say CBS's trade value is a late 1st round pick but Smart would be the one on his way out.

Coaches have less trade value but more "value" than average rotation players.
You're inferring that Stevens over Smart, Stevens=late 1st, therefore Smart <= late 1st.

But you're forgetting that Smart brings back something of value if traded.

So Stevens + whatever Smart's return is > Smart shouldn't be controversial.
 

Jimbodandy

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True. His value would be pretty limited at that point though because teams know we'd have to move him.
Frankly, I think that it's inevitable that either he or Thompson goes this offseason, because there aren't many other salaries to use. And as a huge Smart guy, I'm still ok with it.

Of course everything changes if a Kemba miracle occurs.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Frankly, I think that it's inevitable that either he or Thompson goes this offseason, because there aren't many other salaries to use. And as a huge Smart guy, I'm still ok with it.

Of course everything changes if a Kemba miracle occurs.
I think Smart is overrated around here (or was). To me, he's just another starter/rotation player. That's a pretty valuable thing though. I also don't think he's a good fit with this team. I think they would be better off with a more conventional 3&D guy.

Lonzo would be such a perfect fit. Too bad it's not gonna happen.

And yeah, if Kemba isn't moved, TT and Smart might both be traded away.
 

Eddie Jurak

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https://www.bostonsportsjournal.com/2021/04/30/karalis-random-thoughts-eliminating-corner-3s-covids-impact-marcus-smart/

Karalis firing back at people who don;t like to admit the impact that Covid-19 has had on the Celtics this year:

My point is that there are explanations for a lot of what’s happened to the Celtics this season. Some of it is in their control, some of it is not. But one of those explanations is COVID-19, but some people just don’t want to acknowledge that.

Romeo Langford, for example, missed half the season recovering from wrist surgery. When he was about to return he got COVID. Now he’s back, but his play is up and down, and there is a segment of Celtics fans that are fed up with him.

What is he supposed to do?

This team is a bit of a mess with its inconsistency and somehow a second-year player is going to step on the floor after missing the whole year and after contracting COVID and suddenly just be good every time he goes out there?

The same goes for Evan Fournier, who has shot terribly since his return. The team says he’s still “foggy” after coming back and he’s struggling to get caught up.

I know people are upset about how the season is going, but this virus isn’t checking in with Wyc Grousbeck to find convenient times to impact the team. Fournier will just need time to get up to speed. So will Langford. And, frankly, Jayson Tatum might still be impacted as well. That’s just how it goes with this thing.
 

nighthob

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The brain fog is a real thing. Basically my memory for a 6-8 week period last winter is for shit. There's a post in one of the threads here where I turned Scotty Barnes into a Harrison brother during that fog period. I'm not going to hold it against Fournier if he's struggling with the same issues.
 

Mloaf71

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Not denying the COVID effect this year, but c’mon aren’t all the teams in the league playing under the same conditions and, believe it or not, some teams are even winning games...

There is something more to it than COVID. Roster construction is awful and in game coaching leaves something to be desired. Trust me, I know what that looks like...I watch Ed Cooley recruit and coach:rolleyes:
 

mauf

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Not denying the COVID effect this year, but c’mon aren’t all the teams in the league playing under the same conditions and, believe it or not, some teams are even winning games...

There is something more to it than COVID. Roster construction is awful and in game coaching leaves something to be desired. Trust me, I know what that looks like...I watch Ed Cooley recruit and coach:rolleyes:
Depends what you mean by “the COVID effect.”

If you think COVID is why Tatum looks nothing like the guy we expected, then that’s certainly not something most other teams have dealt with.

This season’s compressed schedule hurts teams that lack depth, which is definitely us. I guess that’s COVID-related, though it’s not what I intuitively think of when I hear people talk about the impact of COVID on the C’s this season.

Totally agree that lack of practice shouldn’t hurt the C’s more than others. Sure, the 1st and 2nd year guys would have benefited from practice reps, but the C’s core guys actually have played a lot together and probably have missed practice less than most.
 

Devizier

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To be fair, people who have played significant amounts of poker are MUCH more comfortable acting/analyzing in incomplete information environments.
I would call it learning from experience. Every single poster here has some dead wrong nonsense preserved in this forum (or one of the old servers) for perpetuity. Some of us have been posting here for more than 20 years. That’s a lot of nonsense. Rather than having strong opinions on every single matter, some have decided to pull back. YMMV.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Not denying the COVID effect this year, but c’mon aren’t all the teams in the league playing under the same conditions and, believe it or not, some teams are even winning games...

There is something more to it than COVID. Roster construction is awful and in game coaching leaves something to be desired. Trust me, I know what that looks like...I watch Ed Cooley recruit and coach:rolleyes:
All teams have lost more man games to Covid-19 than any other team? Nope, obviously. Only the Celtics have.

All teams have had their best player get Covid-19 with after effects that have lasted for months? No, but with Tatum the Celtics have.

All teams made a key deadline acquisition, only to see that guy get Covid-19? Nope, just the Celtics.

Heck, every team had an unprecedented short offseason, but only 3 other teams had as short an offseason as the Celtics.

Yes, every team had to deal with Covid, and some aspects of that (restrictions on usual activities, season schedule) affected all teams in the same way. But other aspects of it affected different teams in different ways and the Celtics were as hard hit as anyone.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I would call it learning from experience. Every single poster here has some dead wrong nonsense preserved in this forum (or one of the old servers) for perpetuity. Some of us have been posting here for more than 20 years. That’s a lot of nonsense. Rather than having strong opinions on every single matter, some have decided to pull back. YMMV.
And that's different than every single NBA expert who gets paid to do this stuff how?

Let's never make any predictions out of the fear of being wrong! Seriously?
 

Cesar Crespo

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This is our resident numbers guy. Maybe he shouldn't make any more posts either at the fear of being very wrong.

Do you honestly believe Jae Crowder is better than Paul George?
I do, yes. There are some contexts where I'd rather have George (if my team had nobody who could create their own shot), but overall, I prefer Crowder these days. As I said, this is mostly a function of the fact that I don't think George has been the same guy since coming back from injury. I had a strong preference for Butler over George at the trade deadline for the same reason. I just don't think George is that kind of impact guy anymore.
 

HomeRunBaker

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This is our resident numbers guy. Maybe he shouldn't make any more posts either at the fear of being very wrong.
Yeah I am kinda on your side here. Some of us have been here for 20 years, I know I have sans the 4-5 years of our private board with Simmons and Rocco, and if not for a place to voice your opinion what purpose does this forum serve? If I want to dial my opinions back I’ll watch a movie with my wife after dinner or spend more of my day online elsewhere. For me personally this is a place to have fun in voicing your opinion, to see if the future results back them up and if they don’t I enjoy looking back to learn as to why they didn’t. Yes, I’m proud of some of my wins and can laugh at some of the losses......hearing others speak their opinions is a great tool to help form your own opinion as well based on how you feel about their take. I see nothing wrong with a strong opinion if you can back up the reasoning.
 

lovegtm

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Yeah I am kinda on your side here. Some of us have been here for 20 years, I know I have sans the 4-5 years of our private board with Simmons and Rocco, and if not for a place to voice your opinion what purpose does this forum serve? If I want to dial my opinions back I’ll watch a movie with my wife after dinner or spend more of my day online elsewhere. For me personally this is a place to have fun in voicing your opinion, to see if the future results back them up and if they don’t I enjoy looking back to learn as to why they didn’t. Yes, I’m proud of some of my wins and can laugh at some of the losses......hearing others speak their opinions is a great tool to help form your own opinion as well based on how you feel about their take. I see nothing wrong with a strong opinion if you can back up the reasoning.
Exactly. I said that I'd be shocked if the Lakers made the Finals last year, so I'm willing to own my Ls and try to improve in things I can, and say less about things I don't follow closely enough.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Exactly. I said that I'd be shocked if the Lakers made the Finals last year, so I'm willing to own my Ls and try to improve in things I can, and say less about things I don't follow closely enough.

The NBA draft is one big giant prediction. They should just get rid of it so the GMs are never wrong.

We should also stop trying to predict the Celtics record at the beginning of the season or over the course of their last 10 games. Wouldn't want to have any fun.
 

Jimbodandy

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People honestly sharing their opinions and the opportunity to hear and engage with them is exactly why we're here. From a predictability POV, everyone is going to be right sometimes and wrong sometimes. Everyone.

When it's trolling, bad faith, shitpost hot-takes, that's a different story. But that's one reason why this place is special. You'll get marginalized fast if you're posting just to post.
 

lexrageorge

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For most of the posters here I've seen express strong opinions, there does seem to be an implicit "I could be wrong, but..." in the stated opinion when it comes to making projections. Honestly, I don't consider the opinions expressed here to be a problem at all, as they are almost always backed by a reasonably educated and critical analysis of the situation. EDIT: I know I've personally learned a lot from the writings of HRB, bowiac, benhogan, nighthob, lovegtm and many others (and huge apologies for those that I left off).
 

Devizier

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This is our resident numbers guy. Maybe he shouldn't make any more posts either at the fear of being very wrong.
I mean, we’re all shooting the shit here, but IMHO the front office/coaching speculation is almost completely noise and no signal. Like I said, YMMV.
 

lovegtm

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I mean, we’re all shooting the shit here, but IMHO the front office/coaching speculation is almost completely noise and no signal. Like I said, YMMV.
I would be surprised if the front office, while analyzing the team's defensive/energy struggles, has not asked the question this year of "has the team tuned out the coach?"

They may have dismissed it, or want to wait for more info, but this phenomenon occurs too frequently in the NBA to not ask the question. Some past NBA coaches (Bird come to mind) have explicitly brought it up.
 

bowiac

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This is our resident numbers guy. Maybe he shouldn't make any more posts either at the fear of being very wrong.
In my defense I posted this when George was coming off injury, and his recovery seemed pretty uncertain (unlikely?). I was obviously aggressively wrong there, but it's a weird snapshot in time as well.

I'm mostly just glad you didn't pull up my Dragan Bender vs. Jaylen Brown takes.
 

Cesar Crespo

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In my defense I posted this when George was coming off injury, and his recovery seemed pretty uncertain (unlikely?). I was obviously aggressively wrong there, but it's a weird snapshot in time as well.

I'm mostly just glad you didn't pull up my Dragan Bender vs. Jaylen Brown takes.
You should see some of my Eddie Curry takes on now defunct boards.
 

HomeRunBaker

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In my defense I posted this when George was coming off injury, and his recovery seemed pretty uncertain (unlikely?). I was obviously aggressively wrong there, but it's a weird snapshot in time as well.

I'm mostly just glad you didn't pull up my Dragan Bender vs. Jaylen Brown takes.
I’ll call your Dragan Bender..........


And raise you a Willie Cauley-Stein!!
 

nighthob

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I’ll call your Dragan Bender..........


And raise you a Willie Cauley-Stein!!
I was high on Cayley-Stein right up until the moment that the Kings picked him to be the Boogieman’s backup. You can pretty much never go wrong betting on the Kings to screw up a young player’s career.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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Jun 6, 2012
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Presumably, Coach has a philosophy regarding three-point defense, yes? Is it an effort thing or a philosophy to sag off guys and give them such wide-open looks? I've never seen anything like it. It's incredibly aggravating, whatever the cause.
 

Cellar-Door

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Aug 1, 2006
34,457
Presumably, Coach has a philosophy regarding three-point defense, yes? Is it an effort thing or a philosophy to sag off guys and give them such wide-open looks? I've never seen anything like it. It's incredibly aggravating, whatever the cause.
The Celtics have been one of the key teams in killing the "3pt defense is 100% luck" theory for the last... oh decade. I can't find it now but a few years back someone wrote about how they defend. It involved decisions on who to let shoot and where, but also a particular type of controlled closeout.
I think this year has had 2 problems:
1. Lack of continuity and leaning on young players means that the Celtics aren't making the right decisions/closeouts that the system depends on
2. Leaguewide 3pt shooting is up (may have something to do with no crowds).
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Mar 26, 2005
30,482
Presumably, Coach has a philosophy regarding three-point defense, yes? Is it an effort thing or a philosophy to sag off guys and give them such wide-open looks? I've never seen anything like it. It's incredibly aggravating, whatever the cause.
Here's an article from 2018 that talks about the Cs 3P defense over the years: https://www.celticsblog.com/2018/10/25/18018908/cracking-the-code-how-the-boston-celtics-became-the-nbas-best-at-defending-three-pointers-nba-film. Under Stevens from 2014 to 2018, Cs ranked 5, 4, 4, 2, and 1. 2018-19 they were 7th and 2019-20 they were 3rd.

So either (i) Brad forgot how to coach; (ii) the Cs forgot how to run his system; (iii) the rest of the league has figured out some adjustment; and/or (iv) there are factors (such as lack of practice or continuity) that really impact the Cs 3P defense, at this point, I'd have to say it's an anomaly.

If it keeps going next year, though, I hope there is some serious study into this.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
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Jan 15, 2004
30,096
Presumably, Coach has a philosophy regarding three-point defense, yes? Is it an effort thing or a philosophy to sag off guys and give them such wide-open looks? I've never seen anything like it. It's incredibly aggravating, whatever the cause.
You should watch the Bucks play. For whatever reason they prefer to allow open 3’s as part of their scheme rather than allow dribble penetration into the paint manned by Giannis and Lopez. If anyone can help me figure this out I’d appreciate it as it is perplexing as an NBA fan.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
30,482
You should watch the Bucks play. For whatever reason they prefer to allow open 3’s as part of their scheme rather than allow dribble penetration into the paint manned by Giannis and Lopez. If anyone can help me figure this out I’d appreciate it as it is perplexing as an NBA fan.
MIL has played drop coverage in the Coach Bud era. Apparently, the theory is take away shots at the rim and live with everything else. Some people believe that it's great for the regular season but has something to do with MIL not going far in the playoffs.

Apparently, MIL is switching more this season. From https://www.providencejournal.com/story/news/politics/2021/04/13/post-vaccine-infections-low-health-officials-say/7187941002/:

Milwaukee still plays a ton of drop coverage this year, but the Bucks have also switched 18.8 percent of ball screens this season, per Second Spectrum. That’s up from just 7.3 percent over the past two years, and it will come in handy if and when they face a playoff opponent that starts tearing apart their drop coverage with pull-ups and snake dribbles, necessitating a change in strategy. Holiday, even more than his predecessor (Eric Bledsoe), is well-equipped for such a change.