The Poll: Is Wyc burning Brad- Should CBS be torched at season's end?

Should Brad be fired as Celtics HC?

  • Yes, no ifs and or buts

  • Yes, but only if they miss the post-season

  • Yes , and I'd fire Danny too

  • No

  • Other Yes-specify

  • Other No-specify

  • Other


Results are only viewable after voting.

Cesar Crespo

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I think that we're in agreement here seriously.

What I'm saying is that there is another reasonable interpretation of "miss the playoffs" that involves ending up as the 7 or 8 seed and sliding weakly out of the play-in games into early golf. In that scenario, I think reasonable people may differ in whether a house cleaning is in order. Nobody has an issue with mass executions following a 4-16 finish. But some might consider crapping the bed in the play-in games "missing the playoffs" too. That's all I'm saying.
Ahh, I think the play in game is the playoffs.
 

Light-Tower-Power

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Just imagine the catharsis here if Brad does get fired, gets scooped up by another NBA team, then succeeds as well as or better than with the C's. That's the likely scenario if your wishes come to pass, fellas.
I'm fine with that. In fact, I'd 100% be rooting for it and for Brad to succeed. If ownership ultimately decides he isn't the right voice for this team doesn't mean he isn't the right voice for another team.
 

Jimbodandy

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Ahh, I think the play in game is the playoffs.
Yeah that's fair too. It is post-season play, if it's not regular season play. But it's also kinda rock-paper-scissors for a chance to play in the round of 16. I jumped to the conclusion that you didn't mean "finish with the 11 seed", because that would be catastrophically bad at this point.
 

lovegtm

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I'm fine with that. In fact, I'd 100% be rooting for it and for Brad to succeed. If ownership ultimately decides he isn't the right voice for this team doesn't mean he isn't the right voice for another team.
Yeah, this is a fairly common outcome tbh. LAC and Philly are both happy that Doc moved on.
 

bigq

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Just imagine the catharsis here if Brad does get fired, gets scooped up by another NBA team, then succeeds as well as or better than with the C's. That's the likely scenario if your wishes come to pass, fellas.
Ha! It would be poetic justice indeed. Brad is a very good coach and if he were to be fired this season he wouldn’t be out of a job for long and I would be rooting for him wherever he landed.

Obviously different circumstances however I was disappointed when Doc moved on from the Celtics and may have even rooted against him for a brief period. If Brad were fired now I would probably question the wisdom of the Celtics front office and be happy if he was successful elsewhere.
 

bakahump

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Lets Regroup, See what danny Can do with Kemba and see how next year shakes out.
Another dissapointing season and the Seat is hot.
OR if JT/JB goes to Wyc/Danny and says this is untenable. (but there has been zero talk of this so far).
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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For this team not to make a play in game would require them to go something like 4-16 or 5-15 the rest of the way. If people really think this team missing the playoffs isn't a fireable offense, they aren't looking at the standings.
The only realistic way that the Cs miss the playoffs is if there are multiple injuries to key players. if that happens, I doubt anyone is pinning that on Brad, unless Brad was the perpetrator of said injuries.

Sure, if the Cs have all their players available and go 5-15 the rest of the way, Brad will likely be fired. But that basically means everyone stopped trying so it's more that Brad lost the team rather than missed the playoffs.

And that's not happening - even if the players hate Brad with all of their might (not saying this is true), the Cs have too much talent and players will play hard enough on their own to go 5-15 down the stretch.

Just imagine the catharsis here if Brad does get fired, gets scooped up by another NBA team, then succeeds as well as or better than with the C's. That's the likely scenario if your wishes come to pass, fellas.
I don't think catharsis is the word you're looking for, but the feeling you are describing is currently being epxeirenced by NE Patriots fan everywhere.
 

Cesar Crespo

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The only realistic way that the Cs miss the playoffs is if there are multiple injuries to key players. if that happens, I doubt anyone is pinning that on Brad, unless Brad was the perpetrator of said injuries.

Sure, if the Cs have all their players available and go 5-15 the rest of the way, Brad will likely be fired. But that basically means everyone stopped trying so it's more that Brad lost the team rather than missed the playoffs.

And that's not happening - even if the players hate Brad with all of their might (not saying this is true), the Cs have too much talent and players will play hard enough on their own to go 5-15 down the stretch.
That's not what the poll is asking though. The poll literally gives the option Yes, but only if they miss the playoffs.

It sounds like most people actually agree with me because for the C's to miss the play in game would require a chicken and beer level collapse. They just didn't bother to do the math.

If the C's miss the play in game and this poll goes up, I'd bet 85% of people are saying yes.


This team isn't missing the playoffs. If they somehow do, the C's should clean house and start with Ainge and Stevens. This shouldn't even be debatable.

And if every single player got injured down the stretch and they missed the play in game, I'd still consider moving on from both. There are always excuses with this team, even if they are valid.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Unless you can trade Stevens for Nurse or Spoelstra, it's a step backwards.
I was listening to Celtics Talk today. Sean Grande made two points that I thought was interesting.

(1) I think everyone would agree that this is the least enjoyable Brad Stevens' team to watch. But think about the flip side - for the most part, every other team Brad has had has been fairly enjoyable, and a couple of teams have been super enjoyable to watch. Which is something to say.

(2) Grande believes that last year's team was the 3rd best Cs team in the last 20 years, even despite all of the talent that they lost.

I mention this because Nick Nurse's sole claim to fame is to take over a playoff team that adds a top-5 player (and gets a super lucky bounce). Brad completely outcoached him last year in the playoffs. Nick Nurse is not an upgrade over Brad Stevens.

Plus, he'd be super annoying to watch.
 

lexrageorge

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Spoelstra's claim to fame is winning championships with the LeBron/Wade/Bosh super team. Give Stevens a similar roster and see what happens.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Spoelstra's claim to fame is winning championships with the LeBron/Wade/Bosh super team. Give Stevens a similar roster and see what happens.
This really isn’t true at all. Spoelestra was an extremely highly regarded assistant coach who in his first year took a 15-win D-Wade led team and won 43 and 47 games with a flawed supporting cast before LeBron and Bosh arrived. We saw him last year in the bubble overachieve as well. He’s really really good. So is Brad......so were a lot of coaches who needed a change of scenery.
 

Tony C

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I voted no (and I think there’s a 0% chance he should or would get fired after a crazy year like this)

Brad’s a good coach but I think he’s been pretty overrated by both the team and the media. He has some clear flaws and I think it’s very fair to wonder if he’s going to be able to push a team over the top and win a championship.

However, all of that being said, there’s no way to figure out those things with this incredibly fucked up season. I think you reassess next year when things are more normal
For this team not to make a play in game would require them to go something like 4-16 or 5-15 the rest of the way. If people really think this team missing the playoffs isn't a fireable offense, they aren't looking at the standings.
I very much agree with both of these quotes. He shouldn't be fired and he won't be fired. But it puzzles me that the "if they don't make the playoffs fire him" option doesn't have more support. That would take an utter collapse. Now it's 99.999% certain that won't happen, but it's an option in the poll and if it were to happen there's no way he wouldn't be fired and there's no way that firing wouldn't have mass support. The way the poll is phrased it's definitely the most logical option. I guess people assume the point is just to gauge support for firing/not firing, so people ignored that particular option.

On the overarching point, as someone who doesn't live in Boston anymore so only sees the Celtics when they're on national TV, the great rep Brad has here has always led me to being surprised by how predictable and non-movement oriented the offense is. I'm definitely in the good/not great/somewhat overrated/doesn't deserve to be fired (barring a complete collapse) camp.
 

j-man

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brad and your GM need to go u are inflexable u have 4 players to build around but littie else beyond that since tatum loves his st louis roots like this http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine smart talum thompson for winslow brooks jackson jr then
brown to sac for buddy helid the money matchs kemba to chi with fornier for vucevic and levine your startling lineup C Vucevic PF Jackson jr sf brooks sg levine/helid PG helid/prichard
 

Light-Tower-Power

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Tonight flipped some kind of switch for me, not going to do caveats or "if he's lost the locker room."

Brad is done.
Having Grant and Kemba instead of TL and Langford or Pritchard out there in the fourth for the final defensive possession was something.
 

lovegtm

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Having Grant and Kemba instead of TL and Langford or Pritchard out there in the fourth for the final defensive possession was something.
It's not lineups. It's the effort. They're going through the motions and he's not reaching them for whatever reason.

They have a lot of talent, so they can beat teams like Minny even with that, but Brad has clearly been tuned out imo.
 

radsoxfan

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Having Grant and Kemba instead of TL and Langford or Pritchard out there in the fourth for the final defensive possession was something.
Agreed here. If you're going to go with offense/defense substitutions as they did, you can't end up with Kemba and Grant out there on D. Makes no sense.
 

k-factory

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It's not lineups. It's the effort. They're going through the motions and he's not reaching them for whatever reason.

They have a lot of talent, so they can beat teams like Minny even with that, but Brad has clearly been tuned out imo.
This seems harsh to me.
For one thing they did grit it out when earlier in the season this was a classic fold the tent game or make a quixotic 4th quarter comeback attempt. So the will is there.
For another this team just needs another scorer. Kemba really scuttled the ship there till the end. They got in a big hole because he was terrible on both sides of the court. It’s sad to watch and I want to root for Kemba but that story is just not on Brad.
Getting Fournier back will do wonders.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Having Grant and Kemba instead of TL and Langford or Pritchard out there in the fourth for the final defensive possession was something.
Saw this in the game thread too. We are defending the 3-point shot so we need switchable perimeter defenders. I agree Langford over Kemba (maybe Romeo was injured/sick?) but TL shouldn’t be on the floor in this defensive set.
 

bankshot1

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A few weeks ago they had a dependable if not spectacular 5 in Theis, who almost always knew his coverage to close out end of game situations. TL, as talented as he is, isn't Theis level on situational defense. He's still pretty raw. And last I recall Romeo has basically not played for 2 years. But he may get there . And PP is still a rookie. Brad has few good choices, so he plays guys with his trust. Unfortunately they suck this year. GW hit a wall this year that seems hard to fathom. Last year he seemed to understand the game, this year he seems out of his element, and the game is too fast for him. I'm hoping its more a function of a short off-season and not enough prep time for this season. And kemba is kemba. He may go off for 4 3s, but his defense is rough.
 

benhogan

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Saw this in the game thread too. We are defending the 3-point shot so we need switchable perimeter defenders. I agree Langford over Kemba (maybe Romeo was injured/sick?) but TL shouldn’t be on the floor in this defensive set.
TL can challenge perimeter 3s better than Grant, can cover for others, and move his feet.

Mrs. Doubtfire has been rather dreadful at D from December. This season "Grant plays" are a combo of grabbing on screens, running into 3pt shooters, and coming up a few inches short on rebounds.

He came into the season out of shape and he still appears lumpy.
 

HomeRunBaker

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TL can challenge perimeter 3s better than Grant, can cover for others, and move his feet.

Mrs. Doubtfire has been rather dreadful at D from December. This season "Grant plays" are a combo of grabbing on screens, running into 3pt shooters, and coming up a few inches short on rebounds.

He came into the season out of shape and he still appears lumpy.
I’m certainly no Grant fan but I wouldn’t trust TL is executing an end of game defensive scheme 25-feet from the basket. I can’t put that one on Brad. We got what we wanted and he banked in a 3-pointer.
 

benhogan

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I’m certainly no Grant fan but I wouldn’t trust TL is executing an end of game defensive scheme 25-feet from the basket. I can’t put that one on Brad. We got what we wanted and he banked in a 3-pointer.
Grant actually played decent defense on that play (TL still alters and blocks shots at a much higher % on the perimeter and GW fouls more)

BUT the play before that a guy drove right past Grant like he wasn't standing there.
 

128

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Grant actually played decent defense on that play (TL still alters and blocks shots at a much higher % on the perimeter and GW fouls more)

BUT the play before that a guy drove right past Grant like he wasn't standing there.
Was that the one where the T-Wolve drove past Grant and then passed to a teammate in the right corner for an open 3?
 

Jimbodandy

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So many blow bys with this crew it's hard to keep track
By my eyes TL has has two pretty meh defensive games in a row now including last night, and he's still so much better than Grant (whom I also love). His stupid length and much quicker feet do add a lot even when he's starting to ball watch too much.

Was nice to see the team show some second half cojones in back to back games.
 

Humphrey

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Grant actually played decent defense on that play (TL still alters and blocks shots at a much higher % on the perimeter and GW fouls more)

BUT the play before that a guy drove right past Grant like he wasn't standing there.
I had no problem w/the game tying 3, it was a contested fling off the backboard.
The previous 2 or 3 successful ones and the one that was missed w/about 30 seconds to go were terribly defended given the score and time. Who was on the court for those?
In OT with the lead they had, for the most part, they played a lot smarter (except for the conventional 3 point play).
 

mostman

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TL can challenge perimeter 3s better than Grant, can cover for others, and move his feet.

Mrs. Doubtfire has been rather dreadful at D from December. This season "Grant plays" are a combo of grabbing on screens, running into 3pt shooters, and coming up a few inches short on rebounds.

He came into the season out of shape and he still appears lumpy.
You forgot, grabbing an opposing ball handler at half court because he’s gassed and doesn’t want to run back.
 

luckiestman

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OK but what about last year's Heat roster? They were locked in with their movement etc. No LBJ to bail his team out then.

We were right there with them with similar talent. If Mr Glass doesn’t break, we could have won so how is Spo better than Brad?
 

Cesar Crespo

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Do we only count the games when everyone good is healthy? Celtics are like 1-0 in those games, I think.
I don't know but Miami is clearly a way different team with Jimmy Butler playing then when he isn't (4-11).

I wouldn't want to play Miami in the playoffs.
 

Jimbodandy

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I don't know but Miami is clearly a way different team with Jimmy Butler playing then when he isn't (4-11).

I wouldn't want to play Miami in the playoffs.
Yeah Butler's a killer and will be a beast in the playoffs. Just saying that they're another .500 team with 2 young guys who took no leap this year, and someone on the Sons of Rony Seikaly started a thread about Spoel on the hot seat too.

They're both good coaches. Shit happens. This has been the weirdest, most fucked up 12 months of most of our lives. Most billionaires don't make snap decisions and factor reality into their moves.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Yeah Butler's a killer and will be a beast in the playoffs. Just saying that they're another .500 team with 2 young guys who took no leap this year, and someone on the Sons of Rony Seikaly started a thread about Spoel on the hot seat too.

They're both good coaches. Shit happens. This has been the weirdest, most fucked up 12 months of most of our lives. Most billionaires don't make snap decisions and factor reality into their moves.
Maybe. Miami is also 16-8 in their last 24 and the C's are 12-12. After starting the year 8-3, the C's haven't really gone on any type of good runs. They had a 4 game winning streak back at the end of February and into March, anyway.

This team has had 2 winning streaks longer than 2 games. They were the 4 games I mentioned and the 5 games back in January.

To their credit, they only have 3 losing streaks longer than 2 games. They are all 3 game losing streaks. So they haven't lost more than 3 in a row. That's something.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Without looking it up, I'm pretty sure GW he was stopping a fast break, not that he was gassed.
Yeah he has just entered the game and was stopping numbers the other way. Had they not been in the penalty it would have been a brilliant play. The timing of it also preserved out 2 for 1 at end of Q but only Chris Paul and a select few others would have recognized that in the moment.
 

mostman

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My point was simply that he does it a lot. Maybe it’s always a heady play.
 

Jimbodandy

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Maybe. Miami is also 16-8 in their last 24 and the C's are 12-12. After starting the year 8-3, the C's haven't really gone on any type of good runs. They had a 4 game winning streak back at the end of February and into March, anyway.

This team has had 2 winning streaks longer than 2 games. They were the 4 games I mentioned and the 5 games back in January.

To their credit, they only have 3 losing streaks longer than 2 games. They are all 3 game losing streaks. So they haven't lost more than 3 in a row. That's something.
Miami is now 5-5 in their last 10 games, and the Celtics are 7-3.
 

HomeRunBaker

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My point was simply that he does it a lot. Maybe it’s always a heady play.
He did it again today in the 4Q. Second game in a row it happened following his turnover. This time Denver wasn’t in the penalty.
 

Eddie Jurak

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This has been a strange year in many different ways. They played late into the previuous postseason, which ended late. They lead the league in man games lost due to Covid, including from their star player and their key deadline acquisition. Tatum has said he felt the effects even after he'd recovered. Two other starters have missed significant time due to non-Covid-related injuries. If ever there was a season for a mulligan, it is this one.
I very much agree with both of these quotes. He shouldn't be fired and he won't be fired. But it puzzles me that the "if they don't make the playoffs fire him" option doesn't have more support. That would take an utter collapse.
Speaking only for myself, I didn;t consider it because the Celtics are going to make the playoffs.
Tonight flipped some kind of switch for me, not going to do caveats or "if he's lost the locker room."

Brad is done.
A game the Celtics won 'flipped a switch' and Brad is done? That's harsh.
 

Jimbodandy

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Did I say he was? You said his only credit was winning with LBJ. Well, he got to the finals with a pretty average level of talent just last year, and it had a ton to do with scheme.
It had a ton to do with the bubble too. If they repeat that performance as a 5-6 seed this year and get to the finals with this so-so team, I'll pick up the Spoel flag with you.
 

OurF'ingCity

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It had a ton to do with the bubble too. If they repeat that performance as a 5-6 seed this year and get to the finals with this so-so team, I'll pick up the Spoel flag with you.
Yeah one issue with this thread is it's really hard to judge a team or coach on regular season play alone in any given season. If the Celtics go on a run in the playoffs and make the ECF again (which is certainly unlikely knowing what we know now, but not totally inconceivable), no one is going to be shouting for Brad's head. On the other hand if they collapse down the stretch and get swept in the first round or lose the play-in, then the grumbling is likely to continue throughout the offseason.

But, for what it's worth, the O/U for this year's Celtics team was 45.5 wins. They're currently on pace for 42 or 43 wins. That's not exactly way out of line with preseason predictions. A minor underperformance, sure, but a lot if not all of that is likely attributable to injuries alone. I think it's still perfectly valid to argue that maybe the team needs a new coach going forward but basing that on the team's W-L performance this year is a stretch.
 

HomeRunBaker

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But, for what it's worth, the O/U for this year's Celtics team was 45.5 wins. They're currently on pace for 42 or 43 wins. That's not exactly way out of line with preseason predictions. A minor underperformance, sure, but a lot if not all of that is likely attributable to injuries alone. I think it's still perfectly valid to argue that maybe the team needs a new coach going forward but basing that on the team's W-L performance this year is a stretch.
We are on pace for 37.3 wins. The 45.5 is based off this seasons 72-game schedule. Had this been a full 82-game schedule our Win Total would have been 52 and we’d be on pace for 42.5 wins.

I know the defensive narrative now was that this was a bridge year and I haven’t looked at the preseason discussion thread but I don’t recall “bridge year” being the rallying cry back then at all.
 

OurF'ingCity

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We are on pace for 37.3 wins. The 45.5 is based off this seasons 72-game schedule. Had this been a full 82-game schedule our Win Total would have been 52.
Right, I'm a dumbass - totally forgot they weren't playing a full 82 this year. My point (kinda) still stands, though, in the sense that the Heat are also way underperforming based on projections and the Raptors even more so.
 

luckiestman

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Did I say he was? You said his only credit was winning with LBJ. Well, he got to the finals with a pretty average level of talent just last year, and it had a ton to do with scheme.

Maybe I did but I doubt it. I like both Spo and Brad.