The off-season
- Thread starter Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat
- Start date
If Chicago twins Todd Frazier with Sale, that would cover the 3B/DH hole ... and make the board implode
Sure, I'm overreacting to SSS but I'd be fine with a deal if Moncada is the principal, but I want to keep me some Super Nintendo. Is Moncada-Edro-Devers competitive?
We should break this out
We should break this out
The idea of trading a lot of the farm for Sale with his risk of injury after the Pomeranz fiasco is terrifying.
If they actually have to beat Robles and Giolito, yeah, that's a frightening thought. Moncada, Devers and Kopech to start. Or a major league piece like Benintendi or JBJ in place of Moncada maybe. As I said in the MLB forum thread, I don't want to see them blow their entire prospect load on one trade unless it's a monster deal with more useful pieces coming back (like Abreu, Robertson or Jones, Todd Frazier...). And even then it's really tough to swallow moving that kind of prospect capital.
This isn't a chatroom. There's a slack channel available for this kind of thing.
I'm not opposed to trading Moncada for Sale, it's the other parts that are surely to be included that give me pause.
I'm guessing there aren't too many people here who would be THAT upset over what amounted to a Moncada for Sale swap with the rest of the pieces being ancillary. I don't think that's a realistic possibility, though, with the rumor of Robles and Giolito on the table from the Nationals. Of course, these things get exaggerated and misrepresented in reports all the time, so maybe it's Robles OR Giolito.
SD having 2 different medical reports, one for trades, one for in house.
I hope they include Pomeranz in this deal...thought this team was in the clear.
I'll say this. JBJ better not be involved nor Benetendi. They must be offering the deal I mentioned the other day Moncada Kopech Devers etc...
I would want to include Pomeranz to defer some of these lovely costs of prospects.
I'll say this. JBJ better not be involved nor Benetendi. They must be offering the deal I mentioned the other day Moncada Kopech Devers etc...
I would want to include Pomeranz to defer some of these lovely costs of prospects.
The only way I've talked myself into it so far is if the deal is lead by JBJ instead of Moncada or Benintendi. Something like JBJ, EdRod, Devers and Kopech is a strong offer and you can add a piece like Basabe or Travis, if required. The upside of Moncada and AB is just too high for me to give them up in a deal that is going to require 3-4 more valuable pieces to get it done.
Also wonder if the Whitesox would want Joe Kelly, who hypothetically should be more available than he was yesterday.
I'd be absolutely shocked if Benintendi was the guy traded. Moncada or JBJ I can see.
I'd be absolutely shocked if Benintendi was the guy traded. Moncada or JBJ I can see.
Ah got it, thanks.
I've been shocked before, but I really don't think Benintendi is going anywhere. My guess is that Moncada is the one being dangled.
Please provide more content in your posts. This is the second or third in the last few days with zero actual content. No need to post simply to post.
Done deal
Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal
BREAKING: Sale to #RedSox. Moncada, Kopech and two other prospects to #WhiteSox.
Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal
BREAKING: Sale to #RedSox. Moncada, Kopech and two other prospects to #WhiteSox.
Giddyup. This is what happens when a guy like DD doesn't simply go out and a sign a few solid free agents. He was making his splash one way or another.
First impression is I like it all from an overall standpoint, even if we basically just conceded 3B to a constant state of absolute suck for the foreseeable future.
*edit* Make that catcher too imo. It was better then having to surrender Edro, but I'm not generally thrilled about having to give up on Swihart
First impression is I like it all from an overall standpoint, even if we basically just conceded 3B to a constant state of absolute suck for the foreseeable future.
*edit* Make that catcher too imo. It was better then having to surrender Edro, but I'm not generally thrilled about having to give up on Swihart
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Alex Speier @alexspeier 7m7 minutes ago
Late chatter I'd heard was that Moncada, Kopech, Swihart *could* be in Sale deal first reported by @Ken_Rosenthal. Trying to confirm names.
Late chatter I'd heard was that Moncada, Kopech, Swihart *could* be in Sale deal first reported by @Ken_Rosenthal. Trying to confirm names.
Jon Heyman @JonHeyman
Moncada, Kopech and 2 very young minor leaguers go to chisox in Sale deal. Moncada, Kopech obvs the keys for CWS.
Moncada, Kopech and 2 very young minor leaguers go to chisox in Sale deal. Moncada, Kopech obvs the keys for CWS.
Alex Speier @alexspeier 31s32 seconds ago
Told Moncada and Kopech are in the Sale deal, Swihart is *not
Told Moncada and Kopech are in the Sale deal, Swihart is *not
So you now have:
Sale
Price
Porcello
Eduardo
Pomeranz
Do you keep Clay and Wright in the pen? Do you see what Pomeranz is worth on the market since Clay's value is relatively low and Wright's value is very tough to gauge?
My gut says they move Clay and keep Wright as the swingman.
Sale
Price
Porcello
Eduardo
Pomeranz
Do you keep Clay and Wright in the pen? Do you see what Pomeranz is worth on the market since Clay's value is relatively low and Wright's value is very tough to gauge?
My gut says they move Clay and keep Wright as the swingman.
Maybe if we were talking about a noteworthy hitter coming back, but otherwise there is no way DD trades Pomeranz so soon after making the bet he did.
There were not a lot of realistic scenarios where I saw Buchholz getting traded this winter, but acquiring Sale certainly is one of them. He is probably gone simply to offset the payroll increase.
There were not a lot of realistic scenarios where I saw Buchholz getting traded this winter, but acquiring Sale certainly is one of them. He is probably gone simply to offset the payroll increase.
Can't have it all - we're not going to get him.
Package Buch or Pomeranz and maybe Joe Kelly for a DH option, or sign Moreland, and I think our offseason is complete.
Jerry Crasnick @jcrasnick 25s25 seconds ago
There's some strong Mitch Moreland-to-the-#redsox buzz in the lobby at the winter meetings hotel.
So that's what that stench was?
There's some strong Mitch Moreland-to-the-#redsox buzz in the lobby at the winter meetings hotel.
So that's what that stench was?
So there are two chairs and three people in the room. Wright Pomeranz and Buchholz. Wonder who is going to be left standing?
Wright, who has never played this game before, will trip and fall while getting into one of the chairs.
I think you substitute ERod for Wright. Wright doesn't have the salary or the trade value to make it worth moving him.
If the luxury tax is an issue one of the two expensive guys will be gone, if they want to maximize return then ERod will be gone.
I think it is option one and it will be Pom if they can get value for him, mainly because of the arm he throws with. If they can't get value then it will be Clay, they won't get much but I don't think they will need to cover any salary as long as they don't expect much.
Edit:Typo and added some extra
If the luxury tax is an issue one of the two expensive guys will be gone, if they want to maximize return then ERod will be gone.
I think it is option one and it will be Pom if they can get value for him, mainly because of the arm he throws with. If they can't get value then it will be Clay, they won't get much but I don't think they will need to cover any salary as long as they don't expect much.
Edit:Typo and added some extra
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If they deal Buch then they'll have more room to add a better platoon/DH/bench player and still stay under the LT limit. That's my bet, especially as Pom and E-Rod are controllable and have value beyond this year. And since Clay' salary is lower than Rich "100 innings" Hill's on his 3-year deal, I think they'll find a taker without having to cover any of the cost. Probably get a BP arm or B- prospect in return. Or maybe he goes for the hitter they want.
According to Bob Dutton of The Tacoma News Tribune, the Mariners are likely to check on the availability of Boston pitchers Drew Pomeranzand Clay Buchholz as the pair slides further down the Red Sox rotational depth chart behind Sale, 2016 AL Cy Young winner Rick Porcelloand David Price.
http://www.espn.com/blog/mlb/rumors/post/_/id/32211/mlb-rumor-central-mariners-to-check-availability-of-drew-pomeranz-clay-buchholz
http://www.espn.com/blog/mlb/rumors/post/_/id/32211/mlb-rumor-central-mariners-to-check-availability-of-drew-pomeranz-clay-buchholz
Buch probably nets a few prospects to replenish the farm. For Pom, though, maybe Valencia plus prospects. Valencia would be expendable if Seattle signs Trumbo.
Think it would have to be Kyle Lewis+, and a pretty big plus given the uncertainty of his career after his knee injury, if you're going for prospects alone. Tyler O'Neill (#2/60 overall) is a power threat OF in AA who showed good adjustments with the bat this year but isn't much of a fielder, Nick Neidert (#4, A) and Andrew Moore (#9, AA) are both potential back end RH starters with good control.
I'm wholeheartedly enjoying the Dave Dombrowski era.
Dance around all you like about the prospects he's moved, but the guy identifies a need and acquires a solution to it. He doesn't eff around and he doesn't look back. He's a known trader of prospects, but what deal has he made in his career that looks bad in hindsight?
We had this talk before - I'm having trouble remembering, but I'd assume either the Kimbrel or Pomeranz trade, vodka fuzzies details - but let's look at his history. http://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Dave_Dombrowski
I'm sure he regretted the Randy Johnson deal eventually, but outside that, I'm only seeing Doug Fister as something you'd label a 'loss' in retrospect. You can't hold the Marlins fire sale against him. And his Detroit FA signings have to be taken with a dose of Illitch.
The dude's an assassin. Cold blooded.
I raise a glass to our grey haired, ass chinned leader.
Dance around all you like about the prospects he's moved, but the guy identifies a need and acquires a solution to it. He doesn't eff around and he doesn't look back. He's a known trader of prospects, but what deal has he made in his career that looks bad in hindsight?
We had this talk before - I'm having trouble remembering, but I'd assume either the Kimbrel or Pomeranz trade, vodka fuzzies details - but let's look at his history. http://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Dave_Dombrowski
I'm sure he regretted the Randy Johnson deal eventually, but outside that, I'm only seeing Doug Fister as something you'd label a 'loss' in retrospect. You can't hold the Marlins fire sale against him. And his Detroit FA signings have to be taken with a dose of Illitch.
The dude's an assassin. Cold blooded.
I raise a glass to our grey haired, ass chinned leader.
What I think makes DD so effective(sss this year and last) is how fast he gets everything done. He is already about done with this offseason already. Hopefully trading a SP. Other teams need to grab a deal quickly with him or he may deal with another club quickly. Don`t know if he worked as fast with his other clubs but hopefully he can get an overpay because another team may not want to wait as long because of him.
I'm guessing that Seattle will consider Kyle Lewis a non-starter. He's their top prospect and really the only one they have that's great. That said, I'd be interested in something like Edwin Diaz and Tyler O'Neill+ for Pomeranz. Of course, if the Red Sox are going to trade Pomeranz for a reliever, they might be inclined to just move Pomeranz to the pen and move on.
I don't see Dombrowski as the type to get caught up in sunk cost and at this point, Anderson Espinoza is sunk cost, so use Pomeranz in whatever way best helps the club, whether that be moving to the pen or as a trade chip. With Sale, Price and Eduardo on the roster, he's probably the 4th lefty on the depth chart, so unless they want to burn an option on Eduardo, Pomeranz is probably the first one out of the rotation.
I'm thinking the best use of him as a resource is as a trade chip. Seattle might not be the best offer they can get, considering how thin their farm is, but there are probably a few teams out there with better farm systems that would be interested. He represents a nice opportunity to replenish that minor league depth a little. Much more so than Buchholz at least.
What do you mean vs LHP? We have all the LHPs in the AL now!
In seriousness, notwithstanding 2 free agents (Derek Holland and Jorge de la Rosa) there are only 19 non-Red Sox LHP starters in the AL (6 in the AL East). Per Steamer the highest projected WAR for Boston's division opponents are Drew Smyly's 2.5 and JA Happ's 2.4. Here is my list of 25 AL LH SP's with a projected WAR of at least 1.0 (per Steamer):
Sale (BOS) 4.7
Price (BOS) 4.5
Quintana (CWS) 4.1
Keuchel (HOU) 4.1
Paxton (SEA) 3.6
Hamels (TEX) 3.4
Duffy (KCR) 3.1
Rodon (CWS) 2.8
Skaggs (LAA) 2.8
Manaea (OAK) 2.5
Smyly (TBR) 2.5
Happ (TOR) 2.4
Pomeranz (BOS) 2.3
Liriano (TOR) 2.0
Sabathia (NYY) 1.9
Holland (FA) 1.8
Snell (TBR) 1.8
Miley (BAL) 1.7
Rodriguez (BOS) 1.6
Miranda (SEA) 1.5
Perez (TEX) 1.5
Vargas (KCR) 1.4
de la Rosa (FA) 1.3
Norris (DET) 1.3
Santiago (MIN) 1.0
ed: added quote I was referring to