The NFL and the National Anthem

soxhop411

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Per Breer:
Per sources, one anthem idea being discussed: Leaving it up to home team on whether teams come out for the anthem; if teams do come out for the anthem, potential that teams could be assessed 15-yard penalties for kneeling

NFL owners are a bunch of morons.
 

joe dokes

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Jul 18, 2005
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Per Breer:
Per sources, one anthem idea being discussed: Leaving it up to home team on whether teams come out for the anthem; if teams do come out for the anthem, potential that teams could be assessed 15-yard penalties for kneeling

NFL owners are a bunch of morons.
What if they both do it?
 

singaporesoxfan

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‪Ignoring the politics of this, wouldn’t that give an incentive to teams that want to force returns (the way Belichick does sometimes) to choose to kneel strategically?‬
 

Ed Hillel

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What if they each agree to kneel? Offsetting, boom you lose old white guys.
 

Ed Hillel

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Just play it before teams come out and before the broadcast starts. Such an easy inoffensive solution.
Guarantee you people will be offended that the NFL owners “wussed out” and hate America.
 

ifmanis5

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What if they switch from Kneeling to Dabbing? Or something else? Who decides what's a penalty? League is run by the worst people.
 

The Gray Eagle

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I saw the thread title and actually was hoping they were trying to do something to prevent teams from taking a knee to run out the clock, because it's so boring and pointless. Which would really be difficult to make a rule about, but still would make more sense than this idiotic proposal.

If this dopey rule is enacted, then players who want to protest the anthem should just stand, but with their backs turned away from the flag.
 

OurF'ingCity

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Guarantee you people will be offended that the NFL owners “wussed out” and hate America.
This is why the suggestion that they would give teams the "option" to tell the players to stay in the locker rooms for the anthem is so dumb - all it takes is one team that tells the players to come out, and then the NY Post/talk-radio crowd will label any team that doesn't tell the players to come out for the anthem cowards and traitors.
 

mauf

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Just play it before teams come out and before the broadcast starts. Such an easy inoffensive solution.
Goodell had an opening to do this when DJT made his “son of a bitch” comments, but he whiffed on it. Which is not surprising — he has made the owners a lot of money, but he has never been good at the PR aspects of his job.
 

Toe Nash

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So...if the penalty for kneeling during the anthem is 15 yards, the same as a late hit or tackling Tom Brady below the knee, then what did Colin Kaepernick and Eric Reid get de facto banned from the NFL for?
 

joe dokes

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I saw the thread title and actually was hoping they were trying to do something to prevent teams from taking a knee to run out the clock, because it's so boring and pointless. Which would really be difficult to make a rule about, but still would make more sense than this idiotic proposal..
Instead of kneeling, the QB starts singing the anthem at the line.

Would there be an opportunity for a fake kneel play??
Roethlisberger would suffer a brain injury trying to figure out which play to run.
 

Gunfighter 09

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So the NFL will have the NBA rule, with the option to stay in the locker room. Seems reasonable enough, though the penalty is stupid idea obviously designed to create peer pressure on players not to protest.


Goodell had an opening to do this when DJT made his “son of a bitch” comments, but he whiffed on it. Which is not surprising — he has made the owners a lot of money, but he has never been good at the PR aspects of his job.

Exactly. I can't believe it took 9 months to come up with this solution. The time for this was week four of last year. If the owners are paying Goodell to be hated, he should have been the face of this policy back in October when it would have pissed off everyone. It just seems like a weird half measure now.


Can Reid and Kaep have their careers back now?
 

patinorange

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They should play the national anthems at Olympic events, international competitions, and parades.. Why the hell is the national anthem played at sporting events? Stop doing that and in 2 years no one knows the difference.
Signed: old, patriotic white guy.
 

Eddie Jurak

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I saw the thread title and actually was hoping they were trying to do something to prevent teams from taking a knee to run out the clock, because it's so boring and pointless. Which would really be difficult to make a rule about, but still would make more sense than this idiotic proposal.
There is a non-zero chance that Trump catches a few plays of a football game during which a black quaterback kneels to run out the clock, and he goes batshit crazy on Twitter the next day.
 

Kliq

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It doesn’t surprise me someone brought up the idea; that doesn’t mean that it’s going to be implemented as a legit rule. If they do it would be obviously ridiculous; but I’ll save my vitriol for if that really happens.

It was my impression that the kneeling had kind of cycled out of the news by the time the playoffs had started and I feel like if the league never mentioned or addressed it again it would just fade away.
 

Mueller's Twin Grannies

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So...if the penalty for kneeling during the anthem is 15 yards, the same as a late hit or tackling Tom Brady below the knee, then what did Colin Kaepernick and Eric Reid get de facto banned from the NFL for?
For having an opinion while being black and the unfortunate timing of being free agents.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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I saw the thread title and actually was hoping they were trying to do something to prevent teams from taking a knee to run out the clock, because it's so boring and pointless. Which would really be difficult to make a rule about, but still would make more sense than this idiotic proposal.
Couldn’t it be as simple as if the losing team can’t stop the clock (or enough times to force a punt/play) and the winning team has enough downs left to bleed it, game is over?
 
First, let me make clear I have zero issue with someone protesting an obvious, or even what they perceive as. injustice. I completely and fully support that. I DO however take issue with who they are doing so against. They are protesting at a sporting event, who plays the National Anthem to honor America & the Veterans who defended their rights, not to honor police. I have no issue with them refusing to honor police, but not honoring America or our Veterans is a disgrace. "We had to get their attention." Is the argument I hear. OK. Fair enough. But you got it and you made your point. Now direct your protests at the people you are actually protesting against. The NFL and our Veterans aren't them. Staying in the locker room when it is played is what they should do from now on. I still don't completely agree with doing that, either, but it doesn't disrespect our country and our Veterans like kneeling (in my opinion) does. You don't have to honor, but please don't dis-honor either.

As far as the topic, I mis-understood the title, and I thought they were gonna penalize teams for kneeling in the end zone, refusing to return the kick. I thought "how stupid. They change the rules to try to eliminate or reduce dangerous returns, now they are gonna penalize teams for not doing a dangerous return??". But holy crap.The actual reason is far stupider.

But what exactly is a "penality". Is that some kind of tragedy involving the penis?
 
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Boggs26

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First, let me make clear I have zero issue with someone protesting an obvious, or even what they perceive as. injustice. I completely and fully support that. I DO however take issue with who they are doing so against. They are protesting at a sporting event, who plays the National Anthem to honor America & the Veterans who defended their rights, not to honor police. I have no issue with them refusing to honor police, but not honoring America or our Veterans is a disgrace. "We had to get their attention." Is the argument I hear. OK. Fair enough. But you got it and you made your point. Now direct your protests at the people you are actually protesting against. The NFL and our Veterans aren't them. Staying in the locker room when it is played is what they should do from now on. I still don't completely agree with doing that, either, but it doesn't disrespect our country and our Veterans like kneeling (in my opinion) does. You don't have to honor, but please don't dis-honor either.
First, I think it's you who has the "who" wrong. The players kneeling are not protesting "the police", they are protesting the systemic problems that lead America to regularly treat minorities as unequal. Police brutality and targeting of minorities might be the most visible manifestation of that but the police are most assuredly not the "who" in the grand scheme of this protest.

Secondly, I have a very hard time with the idea that the national anthem is intrinsically honoring veterans. As far as I know it's intent is and has been to celebrate the ideals of the United States, not as an anthem for the veterans. Additionally, there have been veterans who have openly started that kneeling quietly is a proper and polite method of protest during the anthem. Kneeling is not deemed offensive in literally any other circumstance, in fact it is usually done it of respect. Have you ever watched players during the national anthem? There are many, many more "offensive" things going on. I've seen players talking to each other, players bobbing around looking all over the stadium, popping gum, and basically everything else under the sun - and yet it's only when minority players kneel to highlight daily Injustice that anyone cares. Somehow I don't think the issue is entirely with the action, it would seem that people have some issue with either the people protesting or the issue being protested.
 

LogansDad

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As a 19 year Veteran of the military, I say HELL YEAH. There's nothing like watching people create ridiculous new rules that RESTRICT civilians and FORCE them to show how much they appreciate the freedom we have fought so hard for them to be able to enjoy.

In all seriousness, these players kneeling doesn't offend me, at all. On the contrary, it makes me happy to see these men be able to take a knee for what they believe in. That is exactly why I have re-enlisted enough that I will be eligible to retire next year. It is one of the ways that I know that me and the men and women I have spent so much time with are actually making a difference in the world. This should be a big deal, but it should be a big deal because these men are showing that they believe that there is something wrong in this country right now, and they are able to use their public visibility in order to make their voices heard. That is a right that they have, and they are neither hurting anybody in the process or directly affecting people's enjoyment of, or the integrity of, the sport.

Additionally, the NFL office doesn't give a rat's ass about Veterans, so please don't kid yourself there. They only care about one thing: money. The military pays them a lot of money to perform the National Anthem, and put on this spectacle every year. You know why? It's not to honor the Veteran's... not really. They use it as a recruitment tool, so all of your kids will see it and say, "Hey that's pretty cool how much these famous NFL players appreciate the military, that looks like something I would like to do!"

Even the government doesn't care about Veterans, not really. They need to give us good benefits, and do their best to keep us placated and happy, but they only do that because it's the only way to keep getting more18-25 year old men and women to sign up for a job that gives rich, old white men the right to send them to do their dirty work so they can keep being rich, old white men instead of slightly less rich old white men.

I don't want your thanks. There are heroes in the military and have been for generations, and yes, they deserve our gratitude, but most of us aren't the heroes that the government wants you to glorify. Most of us are just regular people who are trying to get by, the same as most of you. The only thing that I really want for everyone, all Americans, everywhere to do.... the thing that would "honor" me the most... would be to just wake up tomorrow, go out there, love each other, everyone, and enjoy the freedom you have because of us. And I will readily admit that I feel this way partly because I want to be able to retire next year and go out there and enjoy it, too.
 

Reverend

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As a 19 year Veteran of the military, I say HELL YEAH. There's nothing like watching people create ridiculous new rules that RESTRICT civilians and FORCE them to show how much they appreciate the freedom we have fought so hard for them to be able to enjoy.

In all seriousness, these players kneeling doesn't offend me, at all. On the contrary, it makes me happy to see these men be able to take a knee for what they believe in. That is exactly why I have re-enlisted enough that I will be eligible to retire next year. It is one of the ways that I know that me and the men and women I have spent so much time with are actually making a difference in the world. This should be a big deal, but it should be a big deal because these men are showing that they believe that there is something wrong in this country right now, and they are able to use their public visibility in order to make their voices heard. That is a right that they have, and they are neither hurting anybody in the process or directly affecting people's enjoyment of, or the integrity of, the sport.

Additionally, the NFL office doesn't give a rat's ass about Veterans, so please don't kid yourself there. They only care about one thing: money. The military pays them a lot of money to perform the National Anthem, and put on this spectacle every year. You know why? It's not to honor the Veteran's... not really. They use it as a recruitment tool, so all of your kids will see it and say, "Hey that's pretty cool how much these famous NFL players appreciate the military, that looks like something I would like to do!"

Even the government doesn't care about Veterans, not really. They need to give us good benefits, and do their best to keep us placated and happy, but they only do that because it's the only way to keep getting more18-25 year old men and women to sign up for a job that gives rich, old white men the right to send them to do their dirty work so they can keep being rich, old white men instead of slightly less rich old white men.

I don't want your thanks. There are heroes in the military and have been for generations, and yes, they deserve our gratitude, but most of us aren't the heroes that the government wants you to glorify. Most of us are just regular people who are trying to get by, the same as most of you. The only thing that I really want for everyone, all Americans, everywhere to do.... the thing that would "honor" me the most... would be to just wake up tomorrow, go out there, love each other, everyone, and enjoy the freedom you have because of us. And I will readily admit that I feel this way partly because I want to be able to retire next year and go out there and enjoy it, too.
 

edoug

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Boggs26 and LogansDad, just went "This is what the USA is supposed to be" back to back jack.
 

koufax32

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Sorry if this seems like a pig pile on Kun Aguero but my biggest pet peeve in all of this was referenced.
I love me some veterans. My Grandpa rolled through France and Germany after going through D-Day. I live in a Navy town. Every standing ovation, thank you, and slap on the back is well deserved. But we’re almost to a point, or are already there, where vets are so revered and held up in society that we’ve created an official Warrior Class in our American caste system. In doing so our society has gone right along with the logical progression that they, therefore, get to define masculinity, patriotism, and what it means to be an American. This idea that I’m not patriotic or a “true American (thanks nyy fans!)” because I don’t have the same definition of patriotism as a soldier is not only wrong but it’s dangerous and the antithesis of the ideals and values that our flag represents. Just because I don’t have the same definition of patriotism and what it means to be an American does not mean that I am disrespecting you. Someone’s military service does not put them above me in a Patriot hierarchy. This new American caste system is part of the growing, jingoistic, Cult of America that has been the source of the vitriol behind these protest reactions from Star-Spangled Snowflakes.
 

dcdrew10

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I already have mixed feelings about continuing to support the NFL, based on the toll it all takes on the players and the complete absurdity of the league office on issues like domestic violence, pain killer addiction, pot, wrong color cleats, totalitarian reign of the Ginger Hammer, etc., but penalizing kneeling could be the coup de grace on the NFLl for me. It's 100%, pure bullshit and has absolutely nothing to do with "honoring veteran's sacrifices" and being patriotic. Logan's Dad said it perfectly and made me realize that there are a lot of parallels between the treatment of service members after they get out of the military and the treatment of NFL players after they retire. Both groups get a "Thanks for your youth and long term health, please don't expect us to repay you in kind when your body fails in the future." I guess the only advantage the NFL players have is they didn't loose appendages (Ronnie Lott aside) and were not exposed to being shot and/or blown up.
 
First, I think it's you who has the "who" wrong. The players kneeling are not protesting "the police", they are protesting the systemic problems that lead America to regularly treat minorities as unequal. Police brutality and targeting of minorities might be the most visible manifestation of that but the police are most assuredly not the "who" in the grand scheme of this protest.

Secondly, I have a very hard time with the idea that the national anthem is intrinsically honoring veterans. As far as I know it's intent is and has been to celebrate the ideals of the United States, not as an anthem for the veterans. Additionally, there have been veterans who have openly started that kneeling quietly is a proper and polite method of protest during the anthem. Kneeling is not deemed offensive in literally any other circumstance, in fact it is usually done it of respect. Have you ever watched players during the national anthem? There are many, many more "offensive" things going on. I've seen players talking to each other, players bobbing around looking all over the stadium, popping gum, and basically everything else under the sun - and yet it's only when minority players kneel to highlight daily Injustice that anyone cares. Somehow I don't think the issue is entirely with the action, it would seem that people have some issue with either the people protesting or the issue being protested.
OK. I believed the protest was mainly directed at police. I was wrong.

Secondly, many veterans feel it is disrespectful. And yes, like you pointed out,some don't. And as far as what I "care" about, whenever i was somewhere and people talked or whatever during the Anthem, I always, politely, asked them to remain silent. I am not at the stadium, so i can't do anything about many more "offensive" things occurring. And if the subject was kneeling, why would someone bring up a different subject? Talking, chewing gum, etc. Talk or ask about those specific issues, and I will say my feelings on that subject. Ask about kneeling, that's what someone will answer. And as far as the anthem honoring veterans:

https://www.history.com/news/why-the-star-spangled-banner-is-played-at-sporting-events

And I have no issue with "the people" who are protesting. You implying that is offensive. I made it VERY clear what my issue was, right or wrong. But of course I am a "racist" because I have a different opinion than you.
 
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InstaFace

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Sep 27, 2016
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I DO however take issue with who they are doing so against. They are protesting at a sporting event, who plays the National Anthem to honor America & the Veterans who defended their rights, not to honor police.
Is that why they're doing it? I figured they were just taking a page out of religion's book and trying to tie in as many participatory emotional experiences into their product as possible, boost the tribalism a little.

I have no issue with them refusing to honor police, but not honoring America or our Veterans is a disgrace. "We had to get their attention." Is the argument I hear. OK. Fair enough. But you got it and you made your point. Now direct your protests at the people you are actually protesting against. The NFL and our Veterans aren't them. Staying in the locker room when it is played is what they should do from now on. I still don't completely agree with doing that, either, but it doesn't disrespect our country and our Veterans like kneeling (in my opinion) does. You don't have to honor, but please don't dis-honor either.
Not one of the protesters have said that they're protesting the military. In fact, they're explicitly said they're not doing so, and it was a military veteran who convinced Kaepernick to take a knee in the first place. The NFL is playing the national anthem, not the Marines' Hymn. It belongs to all of us, not some particular branch of the federal government. The players in question are Americans, protesting how America treats them and people like them.
 

DannyDarwinism

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As a 19 year Veteran of the military, I say HELL YEAH. There's nothing like watching people create ridiculous new rules that RESTRICT civilians and FORCE them to show how much they appreciate the freedom we have fought so hard for them to be able to enjoy.

In all seriousness, these players kneeling doesn't offend me, at all. On the contrary, it makes me happy to see these men be able to take a knee for what they believe in. That is exactly why I have re-enlisted enough that I will be eligible to retire next year. It is one of the ways that I know that me and the men and women I have spent so much time with are actually making a difference in the world. This should be a big deal, but it should be a big deal because these men are showing that they believe that there is something wrong in this country right now, and they are able to use their public visibility in order to make their voices heard. That is a right that they have, and they are neither hurting anybody in the process or directly affecting people's enjoyment of, or the integrity of, the sport.

Additionally, the NFL office doesn't give a rat's ass about Veterans, so please don't kid yourself there. They only care about one thing: money. The military pays them a lot of money to perform the National Anthem, and put on this spectacle every year. You know why? It's not to honor the Veteran's... not really. They use it as a recruitment tool, so all of your kids will see it and say, "Hey that's pretty cool how much these famous NFL players appreciate the military, that looks like something I would like to do!"

Even the government doesn't care about Veterans, not really. They need to give us good benefits, and do their best to keep us placated and happy, but they only do that because it's the only way to keep getting more18-25 year old men and women to sign up for a job that gives rich, old white men the right to send them to do their dirty work so they can keep being rich, old white men instead of slightly less rich old white men.

I don't want your thanks. There are heroes in the military and have been for generations, and yes, they deserve our gratitude, but most of us aren't the heroes that the government wants you to glorify. Most of us are just regular people who are trying to get by, the same as most of you. The only thing that I really want for everyone, all Americans, everywhere to do.... the thing that would "honor" me the most... would be to just wake up tomorrow, go out there, love each other, everyone, and enjoy the freedom you have because of us. And I will readily admit that I feel this way partly because I want to be able to retire next year and go out there and enjoy it, too.

 

BigJimEd

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The NFL hasn't done anything yet so I think a lot of this criticism is premature.
A penalty is dumb idea and while NFL leadership is lacking, I still doubt this gets much traction.

As much as SOSH seems to downplay the issue and insult those that are against kneeing, it is an issue for the NFL. Sponsors aren't happy, ratings are down and that is a primary reason people state as to why.

So while many of us may have no issue with the protests the NFL, as a business, needs to at least look at it.
 

Rough Carrigan

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The thing is, they're protesting on company time. The twin misconceptions, "They shouldn't protest!" and "They shouldn't be penalized for it!" have been maddening. And a little clarity in the exact grievance being expressed would have been nice, too. But, yeah, I hate everyone.
 

8slim

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The thing is, they're protesting on company time. The twin misconceptions, "They shouldn't protest!" and "They shouldn't be penalized for it!" have been maddening. And a little clarity in the exact grievance being expressed would have been nice, too. But, yeah, I hate everyone.
Are you suggesting that the players who knelt didn't explain why? I mean, that's just on you for not bothering to read about it, because many players have eloquently expressed what they did time and time again.
 

soxhop411

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ATLANTA -- NFL owners are on the verge of approving a new national anthem policy that requires players to stand if they are on the field during the performance but gives them the option to remain in the locker room if they prefer, sources told ESPN the Magazine's Seth Wickersham on Wednesday.

The new policy will subject teams to a fine if a player or any other team personnel do not show appropriate respect for the anthem. That includes any attempt to sit or kneel, as dozens of players have done during the past two seasons. Those teams will also have the option to fine any team personnel, including players, for the infraction.

A vote is expected to take place later Wednesday at the conclusion of the league's spring meeting. Sources said it has the support of at least 24 owners.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/23582533/nfl-owners-expected-approve-new-national-anthem-policy
 

JayMags71

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As much as SOSH seems to downplay the issue and insult those that are against kneeing, it is an issue for the NFL. Sponsors aren't happy, ratings are down and that is a primary reason people state as to why.

So while many of us may have no issue with the protests the NFL, as a business, needs to at least look at it.
There’s a constellation of reasons why ratings are down. It could reasonably be argued they’re using anthem protests as a scapegoat.

If their current sponsors are unhappy with the protests, what’s preventing the NFL from telling them to pound sand? They can’t find new sponsors?
 

OurF'ingCity

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The new policy will subject teams to a fine if a player or any other team personnel do not show appropriate respect for the anthem. That includes any attempt to sit or kneel, as dozens of players have done during the past two seasons. Those teams will also have the option to fine any team personnel, including players, for the infraction.
Just what the NFL needs - another vague policy that gives the league office arbitrary authority to determine what is and is not a finable offense! I 100% trust Goodell and his lackeys to apply this rule fairly and consistently across players and teams.