The Nation's Tears: Volume II

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DeadlySplitter

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a flaccid running game.
have you watched Dion Lewis lately?

As for the call itself, I didn't see a definitive angle that his foot was off. He definitely did not have possession for awhile though so I get it. I was watching on mobile so maybe missed it.
 

dcmissle

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He’s impressive lately and the running game is better than mid-year. But it not a meal ticket, which is why Brady being so-so lately, by his standards, has me a bit concerned. The defense just isn’t very good.
 

The Needler

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He’s impressive lately and the running game is better than mid-year. But it not a meal ticket, which is why Brady being so-so lately, by his standards, has me a bit concerned. The defense just isn’t very good.
He's been impressive more than just lately. He is #1 in rushing DVOA, and by a LOT, even before today's game. The Pats are #6 in the league in rushing DVOA, no worse than about #10 even if you use traditional metrics. The offense has a very nice balance, actually. It's far from "wholly reliant" on the passing game.
 

Sportsbstn

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He's been impressive more than just lately. He is #1 in rushing DVOA, and by a LOT, even before today's game. The Pats are #6 in the league in rushing DVOA, no worse than about #10 even if you use traditional metrics. The offense has a very nice balance, actually. It's far from "wholly reliant" on the passing game.
Yes and if we can add in a healthy Burkhead, White and Hogan, the offense looks quite a bit more potent.
 

Ed Hillel

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Here
Someone explain this one to me:
As Bills DE Jerry Hughes entered the locker room after Sunday's loss to New England, ESPN cameras captured him saying, "Somebody in Boston got the refs on the payroll. Y'all paying them big money out here. Still ain't gonna win, though." Hughes was likely referring to Kelvin Benjamin's overturned touchdown late in first half.
I guess he means the SB?
 

Toe Nash

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I think the call was close but right. By the time he secured the ball his toe was off the ground (and it was only barely dragging anyway).

People seem to be thinking that the refs in NY are going to defer to the call on the field unless it's egregious but I don't think that was ever the intention, nor should it be. This myth was helped along by former ref Pereira talking about the "suits" in NY who make the call. Of course, the "suits" are former refs...Irresponsible by Pereira but I guess he's a personality now and needs to drive controversy.

 

PayrodsFirstClutchHit

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So getting the calls on the field correct = The suits are in the bag for the Pats.

So the standard for fairness is the Pats need to be screwed on replay decisions in order for justice to prevail.
 

InstaFace

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Right that's the funniest part about it - the argument is not that the call wasn't correct, but that in getting it correct they were too generous towards the Pats. That's not a lot of salt in those tears, that's a Lot's Wife amount of salt in those tears.
 

koufax32

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Here’s my response when dolts start into the “refs are for the Patriots!” thing. They point to the overturns going NE’s way. If we’re putting on our tin foil hats shouldn’t the question be “why are so many incorrect calls being made on the field against NE that need to be overturned?” It’s like the default setting for refs is to make an incorrect call against NE.
Pointing out that their “evidence” actually supports this conclusion and watching.the subsequent head explosions is high comedy.
 

CFB_Rules

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People seem to be thinking that the refs in NY are going to defer to the call on the field unless it's egregious but I don't think that was ever the intention, nor should it be.
That's absolutely the standard though. Everyone has been beat over the face with the phrase "indisputable video evidence" of a "clear and obvious" error. Those are the words written in the book as the standard for replay. Want to change the standard? Change the book, don't make it up as you go.
 

Preacher

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Here’s my response when dolts start into the “refs are for the Patriots!” thing. They point to the overturns going NE’s way. If we’re putting on our tin foil hats shouldn’t the question be “why are so many incorrect calls being made on the field against NE that need to be overturned?” It’s like the default setting for refs is to make an incorrect call against NE.
Pointing out that their “evidence” actually supports this conclusion and watching.the subsequent head explosions is high comedy.
Like the Lewis 4th down run where they not only marked him short but had him losing about a yard when it was pretty obvious in real time that he stretched the ball to the line to gain? I could see if they’re off by 6 inches or so in real time on the field but they were off by several feet. Maybe the Pats should add the refs on the field to their payroll as well. What happens when the don’t have a replay to use when one of these calls occurs?
 

dcmissle

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Here’s my response when dolts start into the “refs are for the Patriots!” thing. They point to the overturns going NE’s way. If we’re putting on our tin foil hats shouldn’t the question be “why are so many incorrect calls being made on the field against NE that need to be overturned?” It’s like the default setting for refs is to make an incorrect call against NE.
Pointing out that their “evidence” actually supports this conclusion and watching.the subsequent head explosions is high comedy.
No because the refs are making the calls in real time at game speed and doing the best they can. It’s startling to some, but they really do not care who wins. And Roger’s flunkies don’t wire the calls to the field, only to have them overruled by the replay czar in NY.

Merry Christmas everyone.
 

BaseballJones

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For every call that seems to go the Patriots' way, there's a call that doesn't.

In the Pittsburgh game, sure, that close call at the end against James...yep, went the Pats way. But on the Steelers' first TD, they had an OL so far downfield when Roethlisberger threw the pass, the ref threw the flag. And then mysteriously they picked it up.

Opening game against KC, Gronk had a TD taken away (correctly) by a very close call on a ball that hit the ground in the end zone.

A few years ago, the whole "Kuechly hugging Gronk, they throw the flag for PI, then pick it up claiming the pass was uncatchable but yeah it was uncatchable because Kuechly dragged Gronk out of the back of the end zone" play.

SB 46 and the intentional grounding penalty that resulted in a safety - I've seen lots of QBs throw the ball away in that situation and it never gets called.

A few years ago in Seattle, Brady's other crazy grounding penalty when he threw the ball out of the end zone, when that happens WEEKLY in the NFL and has NEVER been called.

Every time Gronk goes downfield and they mug him and don't call it.

Gronk's ridiculous OPI against Buffalo a few weeks ago that, combined with him NOT getting a DPI call when he was held THREE times on that Brady pick that led to him smashing the Bills' defender.

I mean we could go on and on. It's not just the Pats who get these calls, despite what people think.

So the Nation's Tears.... bring it suckers.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Plus,of course, Deflategate where the Pats lost the greatest player in the history of the NFL for FOUR GAMES for absolutely nothing.

Haters gonna hate, and in the words of Tedy Bruschi the Pats just play...that’s what they do.
 

Toe Nash

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That's absolutely the standard though. Everyone has been beat over the face with the phrase "indisputable video evidence" of a "clear and obvious" error. Those are the words written in the book as the standard for replay. Want to change the standard? Change the book, don't make it up as you go.
You are right and I wasn't clear. The rules say it needs to be clear and obvious, yes. But when you go to NY to make the final call, they are going to be less deferential to the call on the field because they're not the ones who made it. So their clear and obvious is a little different.

Unlike Pereira, I think that's a feature, not a bug. I think they should review fewer plays in general but if you're going to review it you may as well get it right and apply it consistently.

And yes I think he was clearly and obviously bobbling the ball before he could get both feet in.

At least it's better than MLB replay.
 

PayrodsFirstClutchHit

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FS1 is doing their version of the "We don't know what a catch is! " segment.

Some concussed former NFL player is too stupid to understand the rules so we need to change them. Maybe we should change the standard for paid post game analysis to having an IQ above a turnip.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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That's absolutely the standard though. Everyone has been beat over the face with the phrase "indisputable video evidence" of a "clear and obvious" error. Those are the words written in the book as the standard for replay. Want to change the standard? Change the book, don't make it up as you go.
But it has never been the standard in practice. Indisputable is a ridiculous word to employ in that portion of the rules and it has never really guided replay practices.

The thing about both Buffalo overturns is that they were very close but we also had very clear shots of the key moments in each case. We had a frame in which the ball clearly wasn’t yet fully in the WR’s possession yet his foot had clearly left the ground. Similarly, because there weren’t any defenders around and also because the first down line was so close to a chalk line on the field, it was very obvious on replay that Lewis had the first down, even if it was only by a couple inches.

You see more disputable situations get challenged, and sometimes overturned,all the time in the NFL and it’s usually because the cameras don’t have an unobstructed view of the critical moment.
 
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dcmissle

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Sportscenter is about to go over "all those calls that seem to go the Patriots way all the time".
If you’ve lived long enough, you’ve hated on a team that not only is excellent but also seems to catch the key breaks. It drives you nuts if you’re not a fan of that team.

Insofar as the Buffalo players and fans are concerned, I think that’s what is involved here and nothing more. Their playoff hopes took a hit, and it’s very frustrating.

So yeah, I think that what McCoy said is kind of stupid and stand by my criticism — their coach let them down on 4th and one, and in any case, they gagged away the second half. But in context, the tears are relatable.
 

Preacher

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I’m sick of these assholes on ESPN or FS1 acting all incredulous at catch rules that have remained unchanged for a several years now. What’s a catch? No one knows! Seriously, figure it out. You’re a professional sports commentator. It’s your job to know what a catch is and what it isn’t. It’s pretty sad when fans on a message board can spot this shit faster than the announcers and understand the nuances of the rule better than these folks. It’s not that hard. Just do your job!
 

Bowhemian

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I’m sick of these assholes on ESPN or FS1 acting all incredulous at catch rules that have remained unchanged for a several years now. What’s a catch? No one knows! Seriously, figure it out. You’re a professional sports commentator. It’s your job to know what a catch is and what it isn’t. It’s pretty sad when fans on a message board can spot this shit faster than the announcers and understand the nuances of the rule better than these folks. It’s not that hard. Just do your job!
Their job is to get solid ratings. Their are 3 easy ways to do that:
1. Fabricate some controversy that many people agree with
2. Hate on the same team that most people hate
3. Both 1 and 2 above.
4. PROFIT!
 

snowmanny

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If you are rooting for team A in a game and team A loses to team B, your tendency is to blame the loss on:

A) something incompetent or stupid that Team A did;
B) some call that went against Team A;
C) some bad luck that went against Team A.

You don't particularly notice the close calls or the lucky bounces that benefit Team A or the good or bad things Team B did.

All of America sees the Pats as Team B, so everyone thinks they are getting every call and every lucky bounce and that every team that plays them is making stupid decisions.

It's only going to get worse, and by worse I mean better.
 

5dice

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So, to sum up Bills’ fans thoughts after getting dumber on that site for 10 minutes:

NFL wants patriots to win for entertainment. People like to hate the bad wrestler.

NFL modulates this up and down to keep it going for ratings. Sometimes you give the Pats unfair game winning calls 4 times in one year: Jets, Texans, Steelers, Bills to keep the Pats on top. Other years, you suspend the qb 4 games and take a first round pick, so it balances out, but all wrestling fans stay interested.

The NFL likes to also help the Krafts who came into ownership with too much debt, whatever that means.

The Patriots cheat a lot in general.

As echoed by Jerry Hughes and other smart players, the Patriots are directly paying the officials.

The Patriots are dirty. Wilfork tackled somebody on the Bills in a dirty way once. Plus Gronk.

It must be hard to be a Bills fan, these poor people.
 

RedOctober3829

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The same people who bitch at Pats fans for complaining about Gronk non-calls are bitching about the James/Benjamin plays. It just comes down to the fact that people hate the Patriots success and want them to fail. Anything that benefits the Patriots is bad and vice versa.
 

GoDa

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I thought the Benjamin overturn was obvious on replay.

You've got a perfect HD/zoomed in replay to watch. Put your hand over his feet and don't even look at them until the moment you believe he has secured the catch... move your hand... his left foot is not down. You can scream and yell and hate the Patriots and be part of the Bills' Mafia or whatever... but his foot is not down. It was down, but he bobbles the ball on first touch and doesn't secure it until after the foot is up. That is the rule. The rule is not... just give it to the team playing the Patriots because everyone is sick of them winning.
 

DeadlySplitter

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I'm annoyed Volin used his "on football" column yesterday to write about Riveron's standards of replay vs Blandino's.

It's a conservation to have, but not in an analysis column of a game, especially this one. The final margin of victory was fucking 21.

And yes, the stuff Volin has wrote in the past week, he belongs in this thread for a bit.
 

TheoShmeo

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Plus,of course, Deflategate where the Pats lost the greatest player in the history of the NFL for FOUR GAMES for absolutely nothing.

Haters gonna hate, and in the words of Tedy Bruschi the Pats just play...that’s what they do.
That's my answer to this lunacy.

But it's more. They also docked the Pats a 1 and a 4 on a "more probable than not" equipment violation. Never mind the $1 mm fine.

The idea that the NFL is in the bag for the Pats so soon after the entire DG Debacle is hilarious.

That opposing fans and the complete idiots at ESPN so easily overlook the immediate past just underscores how salty their tears are.

But good, reading the whining from the Steelers, the Bills and the media made both of those wins even more sweet for me. I hope this continues and the paranoia grows MUCH deeper.
 

Mystic Merlin

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Even otherwise professional sports journalists devolve into hysterical, ass-chapped shit-stirrers where the Patriots are concerned.

A quick perusal of Twitter on gamedays reveals an unhealthy identification by some of them with the teams they cover in terms of Patriots-inspired sour grapes. There's probably a broader observation to be had there, as it seems that the more these folks are pressured to grab eyeballs and keep access by writing puff pieces about the players, which of course requires them to shadow the players, the more they instinctively grab for the pom-poms or, in the case of the Pats, the keys to the wah-mbulance when things break right for the Pats.
 

snowmanny

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That's my answer to this lunacy.

But it's more. They also docked the Pats a 1 and a 4 on a "more probable than not" equipment violation. Never mind the $1 mm fine.

The idea that the NFL is in the bag for the Pats so soon after the entire DG Debacle is hilarious.

That opposing fans and the complete idiots at ESPN so easily overlook the immediate past just underscores how salty their tears are.

But good, reading the whining from the Steelers, the Bills and the media made both of those wins even more sweet for me. I hope this continues and the paranoia grows MUCH deeper.

To be fair it was colder outside than it was inside in Massachusetts in January. You can't just let the Pats get away with that.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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All those copy/paste jobs and she couldn't once correct the "involution" auto-correct error? (I am being generous and assuming it is an auto-correct issue)
 

Harry Hooper

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Goodell will stop at nothing to mess with the Pats. Per WEEI, look what he pulled off when nobody was paying attention:

New England will play the highest remaining seed between the Chiefs (4), Titans (5) and Bills (6).
 

joe dokes

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If you’ve lived long enough, you’ve hated on a team that not only is excellent but also seems to catch the key breaks. It drives you nuts if you’re not a fan of that team.
If someone was sentenced to watch replays of all Browns games for the past few years, I wonder if there were any close calls that went their way. I'd guess there were roughly the same number as went the patriots' way, but no one gives a shit about the browns.
 

BuellMiller

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So, to sum up Bills’ fans thoughts after getting dumber on that site for 10 minutes:

NFL wants patriots to win for entertainment. People like to hate the bad wrestler.

NFL modulates this up and down to keep it going for ratings. Sometimes you give the Pats unfair game winning calls 4 times in one year: Jets, Texans, Steelers, Bills to keep the Pats on top. Other years, you suspend the qb 4 games and take a first round pick, so it balances out, but all wrestling fans stay interested.

The NFL likes to also help the Krafts who came into ownership with too much debt, whatever that means.

The Patriots cheat a lot in general.

As echoed by Jerry Hughes and other smart players, the Patriots are directly paying the officials.

The Patriots are dirty. Wilfork tackled somebody on the Bills in a dirty way once. Plus Gronk.

It must be hard to be a Bills fan, these poor people.
I wouldn't call this dirty...i'd call it awesome:
 

skip wright

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Jan 4, 2018
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Have a former coworker who moved to Atlanta recently, and is suddenly a big-time Falcons fan. He was posting shit on Facebook after every successful Atlanta play for 3+ quarters. Then suddenly he went radio silent. I posted one silly picture about how the Pats had the lead for zero seconds and still won, and he immediately responded telling me he was going to have to block my feed. I actually giggled aloud.
my wife and i went to a casino for the game party here in oregon dressed in our pats gear ...i grew up in new hampshire was born in 56 been a pats fan since day one .went to fenway and boston garden when i was 6.everyone here is a seahawks fan.as soon as atlanta started scoring all the seachicken fans started ramping up the bullshit.whe brady threw the pick six and sat on the bench with his face in his hands everyone started making crying noises lol.one guy kept sayin the pats run was over and what was wrong with them.i just said we almost got em where we em.when edelman made his catch it seemed like the air got sucked out of the room.people actually started leaving then.when white scored in overtime i stood up grabbed the wife and said our work is done here and we left.
 

DamageTrain

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This clickbait slide show (pretty much the worst kind of Internet content) is one writer's take on each NFL team's worst playoff loss:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/photos/each-nfl-teams-most-soul-crushing-playoff-loss/

The interesting part is if you sum up which team is on the winning side of these soul-crushing losses. The most hated according to this metric? -- the Patriots crushing 6 of the 32 teams' hopes with their worst playoff losses in franchise history (again, according to one person's judgment).

Can you guess which other teams would be "most hated" according to this (somewhat arbitrary) metric?

Denver with 4 hate-inspiring wins, Baltimore with 3 soul crushers, Rams, Green Bay, and Seattle with two each...

Extra credit if you can name the six teams NEP crushed without clicking into the ad-infested slideshow.
 
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