The Nation's Tears: Volume II

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Erik Hanson's Hook

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Not disputing that, just saying that there's a world of difference in the athletic standards for both periods.
We've been 'round and 'round on this when it comes to comparing athletes of different generations.

You can't penalize a player for the era he played in. If Baugh was born in 1984 instead of 1914, he would be downing creatine and electrolytes after practice, not cigarettes and booze. He would be spending the offseason at API in Arizona, not at the racetrack. And if Brady played back then, while I'm sure he would be dedicated, he would not have access to the modern training/nutrition available in the 21st century.

People make the same mistake when talking about how Bird would fare in today's NBA, because athleticism11!! If Bird was born 30 years later and showed elite talent at a young age, he would be provided the latest methods in athlete performance, putting him on par with today's players. Wilt would look like Shaq. Oscar would look like Westbrook. Cousy would look like Nash. Reverse the situation and put today's athletes in the 50s or 60s, and they would not have the speed/power measurables they do now.

Of course athletes are more explosive these days, in every sport. To control for that, I think it's more useful to compare the great ones to their peers at the time.

Edit: Not trying to pick on you specifically, Roddy, as you're a good poster. You just touched a nerve. Back to delicious tears :D
 
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BaseballJones

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We've been 'round and 'round on this when it comes to comparing athletes of different generations.

You can't penalize a player for the era he played in. If Baugh was born in 1984 instead of 1914, he would be downing creatine and electrolytes after practice, not cigarettes and booze. He would be spending the offseason at API in Arizona, not at the racetrack. And if Brady played back then, while I'm sure he would be dedicated, he would not have access to the modern training/nutrition available in the 21st century.

People make the same mistake when talking about how Bird would fare in today's NBA, because athleticism11!! If Bird was born 30 years later and showed elite talent at a young age, he would be provided the latest methods in athlete performance, putting him on par with today's players. Wilt would look like Shaq. Oscar would look like Westbrook. Cousy would look like Nash. Reverse the situation and put today's athletes in the 50s or 60s, and they would not have the speed/power measurables they do now.

Of course athletes are more explosive these days, in every sport. To control for that, I think it's more useful to compare the great ones to their peers at the time.

Edit: Not trying to pick on you specifically, Roddy, as you're a good poster. You just touched a nerve. Back to delicious tears :D
FWIW, a really interesting TED talk on the improvement in athletics, and the role of technology and training involved.

 

reggiecleveland

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What actually strikes me about the Mic's up stuff is how interchangeable it would be with high school or college sideline.
Lots of "Let's go!" Mcdaniels talking about one play at time. "Get us a stop" "Great play" "Yeah way to go! (team mate's name)
I have worn this out, but at a coaching clinic Pat Riley said 95% of coaching was the same at the high school level as the NBA, "Get back on d" "Rebound hard" "shut up and do your job" "You didn't do what I said so you sit" but the other 5% earns him a lot of money.


Edelman, IMHO, seems aware he is mic's up and says things hoping it will be nice sound bite, "for your mom" "the fact you have to say it..." Now he has to make the plays to back it up, so I don't have a problem with it.
 

edmunddantes

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Talk about the Nation's Tears... people actually complained to the FCC about swearing during post game celebration.

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2017/2/9/14568464/fcc-super-bowl-complaints-willie-mcginest-mother-fucker-patriots-trophy
Ehh... Most of those are people that complain no matter what. I forget their name but there actually is a church group that commits to watching television to report all the profane and indecent things they see. They then mobilize the group to write letters to the FCC.
 

FL4WL3SS

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What actually strikes me about the Mic's up stuff is how interchangeable it would be with high school or college sideline.
Lots of "Let's go!" Mcdaniels talking about one play at time. "Get us a stop" "Great play" "Yeah way to go! (team mate's name)
I have worn this out, but at a coaching clinic Pat Riley said 95% of coaching was the same at the high school level as the NBA, "Get back on d" "Rebound hard" "shut up and do your job" "You didn't do what I said so you sit" but the other 5% earns him a lot of money.


Edelman, IMHO, seems aware he is mic's up and says things hoping it will be nice sound bite, "for your mom" "the fact you have to say it..." Now he has to make the plays to back it up, so I don't have a problem with it.
What really struck me from the Mic'd up video was how emotional Quinn was getting on the sidelines in the first half. Each play was as if they had already won, he was celebrating, arms up, with each and every made play.

I think that played into their downfall, they allowed themselves to celebrate too early and then were not prepared and measured when the rubber hit the road. They never saw the comeback coming until it was too late.
 

GregHarris

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Ha, this may be the most true post in the entire thread. Because I was feeling exactly the same way.

Still, a Ghost PAT has a much higher success rate than a 2-point conversion.

But yeah...that would have been nerve-wracking, to say the least.
I bet Josh had 5 or 6 two-point conversion plays ready to go considering what happened last year. I loved the Faulk play, and they were able to use the WR screen and not get called because the Falcon DBs were manning up and bumping within 5 yards all game.
 

reggiecleveland

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Those people understand the rules. Black guys swearing after a crowning lifetime achievment is bad. Rich white guy
What really struck me from the Mic'd up video was how emotional Quinn was getting on the sidelines in the first half. Each play was as if they had already won, he was celebrating, arms up, with each and every made play.

I think that played into their downfall, they allowed themselves to celebrate too early and then were not prepared and measured when the rubber hit the road. They never saw the comeback coming until it was too late.
Hard to say if we have not watched them all year. that may just be his style.
 

mt8thsw9th

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Talk about the Nation's Tears... people actually complained to the FCC about swearing during post game celebration.

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2017/2/9/14568464/fcc-super-bowl-complaints-willie-mcginest-mother-fucker-patriots-trophy
The complaints varied between fans about this year’s halftime show. One viewer described the performer, Lady Gaga, as “an anagram of Sharia Law.”
I like the part where soldiers for Christian sharia are complaining about phantom Islam from generally irreligious people.
 

joe dokes

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Deadspin used to run FCC complaints as a regular feature. Always one of my favorites.

The Super Bowl was perfect, even though my team lost. Lady Gaga was classy and even though I do not side with her politically, I felt her half-time show was spot on!
So...you thought "Born This Way" was an anti-abortion anthem?
 
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eustis22

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Most of those are people that complain no matter what. I forget their name but there actually is a church group that commits to watching television to report all the profane and indecent things they see. They then mobilize the group to write letters to the FCC.
They're "A determined fringe element that can't be counted upon to do the sensible thing"

 

jsinger121

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Random fact. The Patriots have run the direct snap running back play in 3 super bowls with 2 of them for 2 point conversations in Super Bowl 38 and 51. They ran the play also in Super Bowl 36 with 2 minutes left in the 3rd quarter with the Pats having a 3rd and 14 from the Rams 26 yard line. The play gained only 6 yards but got them closer for a Vinatieri field goal to make it 17-3.
 

InstaFace

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Not sure if it was posted earlier but a really good interview with an obviously disappointed Grady Jarrett immediately after the game. Guy could have been MVP but he (IMO) said all the right things. Would love to have him on our side of the field.

https://nflcommunications.com/Pages/SuperBowl/Quotes/2016/5-Sunday/Dt-Grady-Jarrett.aspx
He certainly would not have to go to the Belichick School for Remedial Media Education. He didn't use the exact phrase "do my job" / "doing our jobs", but he must have employed its meaning and usage a dozen times.

Not that acquiring him is realistic: He's halfway through his rookie contract, UFA after 2018. But yeah, comes across as super mature there.
 

PedroKsBambino

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He's really going to dislike seeing 70,000 of them at once in September when he visits, then.
 

Marbleheader

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It's not like he wore it on the field postgame. I will say my first reaction to the picture was that it wasn't the best look for a guy with head coaching aspirations.

Kraft's comments were really benign, sounds a lot like petty jealousy among other owners which is downright shocking.
 
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Can't wait until the Pats unveil the giant clown nosed Goodell banner for his visit next season. They should place it right where the Brady banner was.
 

Bergs

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Guys...am I the only one that noticed in the MRI ad, only pne of TB12:s rings had a digitally enhanced glimmer? Guess which finger?
 

TomTerrific

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What really struck me from the Mic'd up video was how emotional Quinn was getting on the sidelines in the first half. Each play was as if they had already won, he was celebrating, arms up, with each and every made play.

I think that played into their downfall, they allowed themselves to celebrate too early and then were not prepared and measured when the rubber hit the road. They never saw the comeback coming until it was too late.
Sorry, I don't buy this. Pete Carroll has had his share of success, no? And his team is pretty damn hard to kill, similar to the Pats. When I watch him he seems like he celebrates every first down, never mind doing it only on scoring plays. Coaching and preparation matter far more. Atanta's failures were mostly in execution, and an inability to have an overall strategy in place late in the game to use maximum clock while still playing a style they could be successful with. Coaching and preparation.

Now, I do think Brady exuding quiet confidence makes an emotional difference, and football players definitely feed off of that. So that's important, and can be the deciding factor. I think that was important for the Pats given the situation they were in, but I just don't think that was Atlanta's problem. Unfortunately for Atlanta, their problems were far more fundamental.

Anyway, this game makes me appreciate BB's coaching, and the team's execution when the chips are down, all the more. I've watched the game-tying two-point conversion a bunch of times, and each time I get the sweats as I watch how that play was executed perfectly, and yet Amendola still only got about 6 inches across the line. A bobble, or a slightly off throw by Brady, or some slight misstiming, and the whole thing is a failure.
 

SMU_Sox

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Anyway, this game makes me appreciate BB's coaching, and the team's execution when the chips are down, all the more. I've watched the game-tying two-point conversion a bunch of times, and each time I get the sweats as I watch how that play was executed perfectly, and yet Amendola still only got about 6 inches across the line. A bobble, or a slightly off throw by Brady, or some slight misstiming, and the whole thing is a failure.
This game had the most close plays I think I have ever seen. So many plays could have gone either way or were an inch or a bobble away from a different outcome. You flip a coin 40 times and it isn't rare for there to be long streaks of heads or tails even when they average out overall to 20 for each. I think the first quarter was relatively even but almost everything went Atlanta's way in the second quarter until the Patriots started their rally in the 3rd. Then almost everything went the Patriots way. 34-28 as a final score falls into the average of possible projected outcomes. It's how we got to those totals and those streaks that are why we watch. Every time I have rewatched the game, for example, I am in awe of 3 of Julio's catches. Aside from one reception he had to be nearly perfect to make a catch and he was.
 

The Needler

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Sorry, I've watched the game-tying two-point conversion a bunch of times, and each time I get the sweats as I watch how that play was executed perfectly, and yet Amendola still only got about 6 inches across the line. A bobble, or a slightly off throw by Brady, or some slight misstiming, and the whole thing is a failure.
Well, not quite a failure, but a do-over from half distance. But yeah. I mean, it's not easy to forget that's how last season ended. And BB sure didn't forget.
 

Briz

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NFL network is going all out Pats superbowl porn today. XXXVI is on now. Followed by XXXVIII, XXXIX, XLII, XLVI and finally XLIX @ 2 AM. I know what I'm doing today (until XLII comes on at least).
 

Marbleheader

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I find Joe Montana to be completely disingenuous. Once there's no longer an argument that he's the greatest of all time, he starts spewing off guys from the football equivalent of the deadball era. Funny how he was cool with being called the greatest the last 30 years and suddenly changed Sunday night.
 

WheresDewey

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Actually, Montana was really classy if you read his whole statement. He said that he can't say anyone, including himself, can be definitively declared the greatest because of the difficulty of comparing between eras. He said similar things years ago when people declared him to be the best.

Of the many reasons for Pats fans to be angry, this is not one of them.
 

Harry Hooper

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I find Joe Montana to be completely disingenuous. Once there's no longer an argument that he's the greatest of all time, he starts spewing off guys from the football equivalent of the deadball era. Funny how he was cool with being called the greatest the last 30 years and suddenly changed Sunday night.
His wife already called him on it.

"When the show's hosts joked that some would call Montana the greatest quarterback of all time, he disagreed."Even though people say that —and I appreciate that —I still can't say that about myself," Montana said.

Montana's wife, Jennifer, with him on the show, begged to differ.

"At home, you're saying that all the time," she quipped. "We are reminded constantly."
LINK
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Actually, Montana was really classy if you read his whole statement. He said that he can't say anyone, including himself, can be definitively declared the greatest because of the difficulty of comparing between eras. He said similar things years ago when people declared him to be the best.

Of the many reasons for Pats fans to be angry, this is not one of them.
Yeah, not to pile on, but maybe actually watch it and yes, please provide a link to you reference here. If he's been spouting it for so long I'd think he'd remember if it was 'Sammy Baugh or Otto Graham that won 7 or 9 championships'.
 
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reggiecleveland

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I you expect any highly successful elite athlete, especially a legitimate GOAT contender to admit another guy is greater, then you don't understand how they got that status in the first place. If peak Ali. Louis, Tyson, were all active at the same time, each would look at film of the other two and be convinced they could beat them both. At least two of them would be wrong. But until they lost in the ring, they would feel they were the best.
 

E5 Yaz

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"I have watched more Pee Wee league football, Pop Warner football, JV and Varsity high school football, JV and Varsity college level and professional football for over 60 years, more than probably anyone in this room; and yes, I thought the Falcons/Patriots game was the most exciting football game in history, but in my honest opinion it is totally crazy that the winning advantage in a Super Bowl tie is determined by means of a coin toss! Sad."

 

WheresDewey

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I can't find a link doing a couple different searches, but at least one of the stories covering this non-issue mentioned that he had made a similar mention of baugh and Graham years before.

Even without a link, this is some pretty weak sauce. And I've been a die-hard Pats fan since the Grogan days...
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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I you expect any highly successful elite athlete, especially a legitimate GOAT contender to admit another guy is greater, then you don't understand how they got that status in the first place. If peak Ali. Louis, Tyson, were all active at the same time, each would look at film of the other two and be convinced they could beat them both. At least two of them would be wrong. But until they lost in the ring, they would feel they were the best.
I won't begrudge him keeping the competitive edge but I'm not going to applaud him for coming up with some bullshit rationalization to dodge the question. He's also no longer active and hasn't been since Brady started playing and I think boxing is a poor comp, being head to head vs team sports, but whatever.

Say 'I was better' or shit even '4-0 baby! What is he? 5-2?' Or something better than what your wife can call you out on. I just found nothing 'classy' about his comments.
 
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Papelbon's Poutine

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I can't find a link doing a couple different searches, but at least one of the stories covering this non-issue mentioned that he had made a similar mention of baugh and Graham years before.

Even without a link, this is some pretty weak sauce. And I've been a die-hard Pats fan since the Grogan days...
We often discuss non-issues on this board. It's a perk, not a bug.

By the title of the thread, I'd imagine you can see why it was brought up here. I don't think anyone is making it out to be Mark Brunell crying on air or a DFG level occurrence.

But, yeah it's salty tears from Montana and even his wife called him out on it. Let us know when you find the link though.
 
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