nighthob said:
Long view, good point. 8-8 is more hellish than 0-16.
I'm still rooting for the crabs.
The Nation's Tears: Pink Stripes
- Thread starter Kenny F'ing Powers
- Start date
Long view, good point. 8-8 is more hellish than 0-16.
I'm still rooting for the crabs.
Ralphwiggum said:
You cherry picked data to show a point of bias against NE and I easily (literally googled the search term you gave me and went to the ESPN link) showed you how wrong you were. This is not a point of order situation but I get how you could want to deflect away from your original statement
NortheasternPJ said:
Most of us who have been rooting for Seattle since long before their current success (including the Superbowl v. PIT) hate the whole "12s" thing as much as non-Seattle fans do. It screams of the same issues the Red Sox had in the 2005 - 2009 era with a ton of people rooting for them because it was seen as the "cool" thing to do.
Honestly I don't care, I just think this is a silly fanboy thread so as an opposing team's fan why bother. But whatever knocks you out.
Edit: and I don't think the original point was that literally every non-Patriot fan was rooting against the Pats. But I withdraw my earlier point and stand corrected if that helps.
Edit: and I don't think the original point was that literally every non-Patriot fan was rooting against the Pats. But I withdraw my earlier point and stand corrected if that helps.
wibi said:
Yeah - the 12s is no worse than voting for a Mayor or whatever it was of Red Sox nation.
Ralphwiggum said:
If you dont care why did you post saying you dont care? Why not just ignore any of my responses and let it go if you didnt care? Instead after getting proved wrong you attempt to undermine the statements by parsing the language of your original point out to minimize your wrongness. You dont make a statement like "outside of the New England states there were only 7 other states where more people were rooting for the Pats than the Seahawks" unless you were trying to make a point that the Pats were heavily rooted against.
I don't feel any hatred for the 12s. Yes, they can get tiresome in the same way any over-the-top fanbase can get tiresome.
But Seattle has been starved for sports success for decades. The few times the M's haven't sucked, they've choked in the playoffs. The Sonics were rustled away. The Seahawks were almost loaded on a truck and hijacked to LA, and when they finally got to the Super Bowl for the first time they were ripped off by an imcompetent ref. They've had misery and suckitude for breakfast, lunch and dinner.
Now they have a great team and they are fully behind it. They are loud and colorful and pumped and jacked. Ffs, let them enjoy their time at the top. It won't last.
Plus, the 12s helped the Hawks absolutely stomp Peyton in the Super Bowl. For that alone they deserve a pass.
But Seattle has been starved for sports success for decades. The few times the M's haven't sucked, they've choked in the playoffs. The Sonics were rustled away. The Seahawks were almost loaded on a truck and hijacked to LA, and when they finally got to the Super Bowl for the first time they were ripped off by an imcompetent ref. They've had misery and suckitude for breakfast, lunch and dinner.
Now they have a great team and they are fully behind it. They are loud and colorful and pumped and jacked. Ffs, let them enjoy their time at the top. It won't last.
Plus, the 12s helped the Hawks absolutely stomp Peyton in the Super Bowl. For that alone they deserve a pass.
Marciano490 said:
You better not talk about our Poet Laureate Dick Flavin or things are going to get really ugly around here. I'd consider the Red Sox front office as one of the worst offenders in pro sports on the marketing.
I wonder how David Ortiz is enjoying his Infinity?
"the 12s" is akin, IMO, to "The Patriot Way" in that in both cases, a small subset of the fan base takes an inordinate amount of pride in some vague or silly, but ultimately harmless, piffle that then gets blown out of proportion in the media and hence attributed to every fan of the respective team. In fact, an even larger percentage of fans of that team ignore it or actively roll their eyes.
It happens to almost every fan base for successful teams, and sometimes it sticks forever. Other examples:
1) St. Louis Cardinals "Best Fans in Baseball";
2) Steelers' "Terrible Towels"
3) Red Sox and "Sweet Caroline"
4) Yankees' Aura and Mystique
5) Green Bay's "Frozen Tundra"
6) Philly fans being "tough"
It happens to almost every fan base for successful teams, and sometimes it sticks forever. Other examples:
1) St. Louis Cardinals "Best Fans in Baseball";
2) Steelers' "Terrible Towels"
3) Red Sox and "Sweet Caroline"
4) Yankees' Aura and Mystique
5) Green Bay's "Frozen Tundra"
6) Philly fans being "tough"
Worse than "The Patriot Way," to me, is Kraft's insistence of repeating "We are all Patriots." That made some sense after beating the Rams, but now it's just hokey. The SB49 rings have both "Do Your Job" and "We are all Patriots" on them. It's a good guess that one of those phrases outweighs the other in the minds of most of those who have those rings.
Bitching about the owners word choice on the podium accepting a(nother) Lombardi trophy... we wonder why the nation hates us!E5 Yaz said:
drleather2001 said:
No "America's Most Beloved Ballpark" for the Red Sox?
Or you could just be the Cubs and be losers and get tagged with that.
Utterly mystified by Seahawks anger. All they did was play well and approach the last Super Bowl both professionally and respectfully wrt the Pats.
So the Seahawks were trolling us by not being authentically professional and respectful. Is that the idea?
So the Seahawks were trolling us by not being authentically professional and respectful. Is that the idea?
The "U mad bro" cut against the grain, though not to a painful extent. I'd prefer to see them lose than win but I kinda feel that way about all of the 31. I'd leave them out of the "actively dislike" category.
I love the Seahawks because they remind me of one of the most satisfying sports moments in my life. And, yeah - that beat-down they put on The Broncos earns them major points.
moondog80 said:
McNair and Jones were among the more vocal owners in their support for Goodell throughout the process. Keep in mind it's just my residual energy, whatever that means. And to be fair to myself, Kraft's support of Goodell during the Rice fiasco made me sick.
I have no ill will toward the Seahawks or their fans.
That said, I do get a lot of pleasure in seeing Pete Carroll fail. I find it to be mildly annoying that he pretty much sucked for the Patriots and then found great success at USC and Seattle. I know that there are some rational explanations for this but I can't control what mildly annoys me. And I don't like his face or boyish exuberance.
Having been at the Super Bowl, the Seattle fans near me were generally fine and not jerky. But the whole notion of the 12s -- as if they are a force and have some sort of real and unique impact on the outcome -- is kind of dopey.
In the end, Seattle doesn't come anywhere close to the Jets, Colts, Ravens, Broncos and Giants level of extreme dislike for me.
Last, the notion that anyone is "wrong together" for yucking it up over the Pats' success or another team's failure...is about as wrong as something can be. We're not curing cancer here. If people want to engage in a little schadenfreude...big deal.
That said, I do get a lot of pleasure in seeing Pete Carroll fail. I find it to be mildly annoying that he pretty much sucked for the Patriots and then found great success at USC and Seattle. I know that there are some rational explanations for this but I can't control what mildly annoys me. And I don't like his face or boyish exuberance.
Having been at the Super Bowl, the Seattle fans near me were generally fine and not jerky. But the whole notion of the 12s -- as if they are a force and have some sort of real and unique impact on the outcome -- is kind of dopey.
In the end, Seattle doesn't come anywhere close to the Jets, Colts, Ravens, Broncos and Giants level of extreme dislike for me.
Last, the notion that anyone is "wrong together" for yucking it up over the Pats' success or another team's failure...is about as wrong as something can be. We're not curing cancer here. If people want to engage in a little schadenfreude...big deal.
Do you think Seahawks fans have more of an impact on the outcome of a game than Jaguars fans?
I'm telling you, man, your ability to be wrong every time you set your fingers to a keyboard beats the stopped clock in a walk. Learn how to read.TheoShmeo said:
Perhaps he is just relaying to us what one of his sources are saying?Myt1 said:
Sorry Theo
:ducks:
My sister grew up in Portland, OR so I've got a soft spot for the Blazers, Seahawks, and Mariners. Caught a Mariners game at safeco when we were out there for her wedding. I thought Seattle was a fantastic city in general.
wibi said:
I don't really have a dog in this fight -- the Nation's Tears thread should be reserved for far more more serious matters of ballwashing all things Patriots -- but why do we keep using the unscientific ESPN poll? Again, I don't much care about this question, and debated whether to even post this.
Still, if it comes up again:
PPP actually did a scientific poll on these questions in January, and found that:
1) More Americans were rooting for the Seahawks (36% rooting for them, 29% for the Pats, 35% not sure).
2) A large plurality in January thought that the Patriots had cheated (41% cheated, 27% didn't).
Summary:
Lots more at the link for the crosstabs, including the hilarious revelation that Goodell had an 18% approval rating and 54% did not think there should be an NFL team in London.
He wasn't the one who used it. And the poll that you're citing also belies the argument offered by the people he is responding to.
I agree that it would be easier if he had written, "You don't know what the hell you're talking about" but that probably would have been misinterpreted by the people who aren't bothering to read, too.
I agree that it would be easier if he had written, "You don't know what the hell you're talking about" but that probably would have been misinterpreted by the people who aren't bothering to read, too.
I just watched the 2nd half of the Super Bowl again.
All of the highlights about the Malcom Butler pick fail to show HOW QUICKLY Bill made the decision to not call a TO live.
He was 100% on board with his plan...I don't even know WHEN they had time to yell "MALCOLM GO!"
Such a crazy 4th quarter of football...I was reading along with the game thread (man was I pissed off for 75% of that thread lol) and it was still nerve wrecking.
All of the highlights about the Malcom Butler pick fail to show HOW QUICKLY Bill made the decision to not call a TO live.
He was 100% on board with his plan...I don't even know WHEN they had time to yell "MALCOLM GO!"
Such a crazy 4th quarter of football...I was reading along with the game thread (man was I pissed off for 75% of that thread lol) and it was still nerve wrecking.
I recently re-watched it myself, and I was struck by how far into the 4th quarter it was before the tide turned. It had looked like Seattle had finally asserted themselves in the second half and were going to salt it away especially with that sack of Brady around the 10 minute mark. Then the Patriots offense just went to town.
brandonchristensen said:
That's one thing I'd love to see. There are all these different cameras, so they got the "GO" moment (and at least what is likely BB saying "I'm good."). But there's no equivalent of the "all-22" for the coaches, to see the whole thing unfold.
It would be great of NFL Films could do what NASCAR on TV does and patch in the headset communications between and among the coaches. I wonder if the Sabols ever tried and were rebuffed? There has been pressbox-to-sideline comm for a long time It seems like a no-brainer that that would make those NFL Films even better.
Yes. And I think that those fans have much less of an impact than they think they do or celebrate having.Marciano490 said:
Some of the things I was hearing before the game from very nice Seahawks fans about the impact they were going to have on the SB were pretty bizarre.
TheoShmeo said:
That's why I make fun of some Seahawks fans. Because I had "12ers" telling me straight up before the game that they were one of the most important aspects of the team's success.
I don't hate Seahawks fans any more than any other fanbase, really, but that kind of thought deserves a little bit of fair mockery. It's not the same as the Red Sox marketing team labeling Fenway "America's Most Beloved Ballpark." We don't control the Sox ownership.
brandonchristensen said:
I thought they did a great in 'Do You Job' of explaining this moment, how Patricia and one of the other coaches asked Bill if he wanted to use the timeout but that he saw the confusion and let it ride. I also loved how they showed a glimpse of what the coaches see and react to in game time - i.e., the recognition that Seattle was using three wideouts (and the coaches yelling this to the defense) followed by "Malcolm ... GO!.
Andrew said:
But that's not the point I was making.
Every team has a (in Seattle's case, literally) vocal minority of fans, or some quirk that is beloved by a vocal minority, that the media will use to color the entire fanbase. But it's important to remember that it is, in fact, a minority of fans. But it becomes a stereotype.
So, like everyone else, I roll my eyes when I hear Cardinals fans are referred to as "The Best Fans in Baseball." And of course the press has no problem finding pictures of fans with that on their shirts, or some old lady who's been a fan since Musial saying earnestly "We are the best fans in baseball!" with a crowd of idiots behind her cheering in approval. But, I'd wager most Cardinals fans just ignore that shit or actively think it's stupid. Likewise, I'm aware that there are a lot of "12s" who think they have some meaningful and important impact on their team's success, but people who believe that are in the minority.
Moreover, fans who take their fandom so seriously as to buy into that hokum are the type of people that are probably a little *off* to begin with. It's a self-selecting group. It's like walking into a Star Trek convention, seeing a bunch of adults dressed as klingons, and extrapolating from that: all people who like Star Trek are into cosplay.
And it happens with every fan base. I tell people I'm a Patriots fan, and when I don't start quoting "Good Will Hunting" and raving about how fahckin' AWESOME the Patriots are, some people act surprised. In fact, the hardest thing as a Pats fan outside of New England is getting people to believe I'm being objective about the team, and not deeply biased, because the "Pats fans will not acknowledge any opinion that challenges the supremacy of their team, Brady, or Belichick" stereotype is so strong. When I say something like "Ya, 2007 was a tough loss, but the Giants were better that day.", the typical response is something like "Fuck you with that false modesty." It's one of the facets of the whole Deflategate nonsense (and Spygate) that's so irritating: even when making a point to be objective, Pats fans are disregarded out of hand because the stereotype of being blind, fairweather, Johnny-Come-Lately, "In Belichick We Trust", "Patriot Way" believers (and the recent addition of "paranoid") is too strong to dispel.
But then again, most of my friends/neighbors are Vikings fans, so they are genuinely jealous, and reserve most of their hatred for Green Bay.
I love the Sherman-Brady-Revis trash talk. Especially because last year, the Pats got the last word.ipol said:
I wish Brady was able to deliver the first time he jawed with Sherman, but it is what it is.
Wasn't Brady's fault - blame Tavon
As for the 12s... the architects and engineers have a lot more to do with the crowd noise than the fans
As for the 12s... the architects and engineers have a lot more to do with the crowd noise than the fans
Tims4wins, that point was what was kind of funny at the SB.
Notwithstanding that around 25% of the fans present were Pats fans and that, as always, there were also a good number of neutrals, and notwithstanding that Glendale does not have whatever architecture that contributes to the noise advantage at Seattle homes games, Seattle fans were consistently claiming pre-game that they would make a difference during the game. Like really, they would matter. To some of drleather's points, I get that the handful of people Andrew and I spoke with are hardly a scientific sample and that there are undoubtedly rational Seattle fans in the nature of drleather himself. Still, it's amusing a particularly silly fan related meme emerges and a vocal portion of the fanbase -- whatever that portion actually is -- starts promoting it. There just a LOT of talk about the 12s before that game started.
I have to emphasize that other than that quirk, the Seattle people were more than fine. Watching a SB with them was a far cry from watching one with Giants or Eagles fans.
Notwithstanding that around 25% of the fans present were Pats fans and that, as always, there were also a good number of neutrals, and notwithstanding that Glendale does not have whatever architecture that contributes to the noise advantage at Seattle homes games, Seattle fans were consistently claiming pre-game that they would make a difference during the game. Like really, they would matter. To some of drleather's points, I get that the handful of people Andrew and I spoke with are hardly a scientific sample and that there are undoubtedly rational Seattle fans in the nature of drleather himself. Still, it's amusing a particularly silly fan related meme emerges and a vocal portion of the fanbase -- whatever that portion actually is -- starts promoting it. There just a LOT of talk about the 12s before that game started.
I have to emphasize that other than that quirk, the Seattle people were more than fine. Watching a SB with them was a far cry from watching one with Giants or Eagles fans.
Totally. They did a great job breaking down that moment. But what got me watching live was that it all occurred in roughly 15-20s.JimD said:
