Patricia, yes, absolutely. He’s an OC with training wheels. Agree that the personnel ain’t helping. It’s all a mess.
The Michael McCorkle "Mac" Jones Thread
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I think there’s also the reality that we don’t know what they’re seeing in practice from him and how that may be affecting their game-day playcalling.
Linking your young QB’s development to an OC with training wheels is probably the dumbest thing Belichick has done as GM of the Pats.
Mac asked about the yelling video. Mac says his emotions got to him. He says they needed more chunk plays and that he was emotional and not directed at anybody. BB was not asked about the video.
View: https://twitter.com/ZackCoxNESN/status/1598543428345892864
Jones on this: “I felt like we needed chunk plays, and I shouted that out to kind of get everyone going. … It wasn’t directed at anybody. Just emotion coming out.”
View: https://twitter.com/kdthompson5/status/1598543512529682432
Mac Jones seems to clarify he said the “quick game sucks” in that video during his postgame comments. Said they were playing from behind and he wanted them to go downfield more. Wanted to provide a spark at a low point for the team but could’ve kept his emotions together better.
View: https://twitter.com/ZackCoxNESN/status/1598543428345892864
Jones on this: “I felt like we needed chunk plays, and I shouted that out to kind of get everyone going. … It wasn’t directed at anybody. Just emotion coming out.”
View: https://twitter.com/kdthompson5/status/1598543512529682432
Mac Jones seems to clarify he said the “quick game sucks” in that video during his postgame comments. Said they were playing from behind and he wanted them to go downfield more. Wanted to provide a spark at a low point for the team but could’ve kept his emotions together better.
I mean isn't Matt Patricia the same guy that got Malcolm Butler benched and spectacularly flamed out as a HC? I mean he probably is the smartest guy in the room sometimes, and was an amazing defensive coach. I am not sure that qualifies him to be the OC? Like when McDaniels was let go, BB didn't bring him back to coach DBs.
It is really tough to feel sorry for Patricia. Though Mac does look like a jerk here too.
Mac was not good tonight. And after two positive steps forward, this was a big step back, but they should probably just let him play out the season and have a real QB competition in the offseason. Unless BB thinks that Zappe can be a future starter -- go with him.
It is really tough to feel sorry for Patricia. Though Mac does look like a jerk here too.
Mac was not good tonight. And after two positive steps forward, this was a big step back, but they should probably just let him play out the season and have a real QB competition in the offseason. Unless BB thinks that Zappe can be a future starter -- go with him.
Mac just confirmed, to his credit, on the post game he said short game. Thought at the time they needed chunk plays even though the short game was working. Claimed he said it to the rest of the team to fire him up, that part was likely disingenuous. Pretty sure that was directed to Matty Pee.
They can certainly both be wrong, but it’s definitely worrisome Patricia seems to have so many issues with so many players. The Goodell clown shirt thing was funny at the time, but in hindsight it seems like the work of an immature and confrontational person.
He wasn’t well liked in Detroit either, if I recall correctly. Between that and the sexual assault allegation against him when he got the HC job, it’s odd to see him back.
Yeah, I think Patricia is getting too much heat, but I also don't think he's particularly good at calling plays. He's in a tough spot with a bad line and a QB who can't make plays (and maybe can't make all the throws?), but.... he's the O-line coach too, and he's more trying not to screw up than elevating his QB/line through creative playcalling. The WRs and RBs are pretty good, he needs to find ways to create uncertainty in the defense.
That was the same interception* (or not) he threw vs Brisker and similar to his other ones where he is off his spot, on the move, and underestimates the range of the defender to undercut it. I just posted that from Waldman's pre-draft issues with him. He has had this issue his entire career. It doesn't always pop up but when it does it usually leads to a turnover or a turnover worthy play.
I think the heat is kind of deserved. I mean he isn't the reason the team is .500, but he is definitely part of the problem (along with Mac and the OL). Like if you asked this board last year who they thought would replace Josh McD - I doubt Patricia makes the top 10 list.
I mean he isn't awful for a first year, and he has shown some improvement, but I am not sure he is a longterm solution calling plays.
You are correct that he also does not have the easiest task of calling plays and coaching an oft-injured line.
View: https://twitter.com/MarkDanielsPJ/status/1598545456547741699
Mac Jones says he was swearing on the sidelines because he wanted to “go down fighting.” Adds that Matt Patricia was on the same page with him.
Mac Jones says he was swearing on the sidelines because he wanted to “go down fighting.” Adds that Matt Patricia was on the same page with him.
This 100%. I don't really find him very likable, and that affects my opinion of him. I would prefer he was nowhere near the Pats.
This game was another game where I wonder if he has the arm to play long term. Problem is I can't tell how much is arm vs. processing, but he was late and high a TON tonight, didn't lead anyone, guys constantly had to slow down or stop, often leaping just to get a hand on it. He just doesn't seem to be able to drive the ball at all. BUF was giving up the outside because they didn't think he could make the throws.
Yeah, I think he's bad but improving some, by too much heat I mean that people are acting like if we swapped in Bill O'Brien or something this team would be fine, it wouldn't. The playcalling isn't good, but the line and QB issues aren't really primarily playcall based, they're much more fundamental technique, decision making and execution mistakes.
Lot of talk in the game thread about Mac being unlikeable, but I'd say he honestly just gave one of the least bullshit, most accountable pressers I've seen someone on this team give after a loss. I don't think he has the arm to be great and I think beyond that he's broken in several ways right now, but I think he's got the head for the job he has ahead of him. It doesn't count for much, and if the line doesn't play better it's probably irrelevant anyways, but I think you have to keep rolling him out and seeing if he can unfuck himself.
Was it? Besides the novelty factor of throwing a ball to a guy who's never caught a ball before it was a simple toss to a WR on the line of scrimmage who made the play happen.
I’m quite sure Mac’s fundamentals and execution would be better under a coach like BOB who has experience and a good track record working with QBs. They in turn would have an actual OL coach whose sole job would be the line and not split between making the game plan. The injuries to the OL are what they are. But I think as a whole the offense would be better under an experienced OC. The details and execution are so poor across the board.
Since Patricia is the OL coach, he owns a huge chunk of their under performance. I think that’s compounding the problem. Maybe a real OL coach would have that unit playing better, which would make a real OC’s job easier?
It's set up with a non-WR in the slot, the fast WR on the outside (so the D has to respect the speed with a good sized cushion) and the #1 WR on the other side with the TE, then they make a play action to make the CB over the slot guy make a decision, when he comes up the WR on the outside is coming in to cut off the safety, giving the slot guy a free run inside, and the outside CB is chasing. when Mac throws it the guy trying to get to Jones is 14 yards away, and now he's got 7 yards of speed built up with Agholor to make the block. That's well designed (and I bet there is an option to just make the handoff if you don't like the look.
Edit- it going to the house is Marcus' speed, but that play is getting you an easy 8-10 yards no matter what once that CB bites. It's exactly what you want a coordinator to do.... get guys with speed/elusiveness the ball in lots of space
Definitely possible, figuring out OL coach vs. talent/injury issues is always hard.
Maybe they'd be better, but... blaming all of the execution problems on the coaches is silly. There is a point at which execution is on the players.
I think people are taking this as me saying I think Patricia is okay... I think he's bad. I just think he's only a moderate part of the problem and focusing on him misses all the other issues that aren't his fault.
The video is really a non-story. The inability to execute a viable offense (for whatever reason), is the issue the QB ultimately has to solve, working in collaboration with the other members of the offense and the coaches. Players play. I am pretty sick of hearing about the coaching/play calling as if Mac has little or no agency over the problem. It has to be 90% him.
Assuming your premise, why not? It is impossible to be a good defensive coach without understanding offense and what opponents are trying to do. Vice versa. I'm not convinced he was a defensive genius, but I don't think it follows that he coached D therefore he is unqualified to coach O.
And after facing Josh Allen, the QB Jones will never be.
Mac was undeniably bad in this game.
That said, tonight also exposed the overall talent gap between the Bills, who have surrounded Allen with weapons as well as protection and the Patriots who are doing their QB no favors on either front. Play calling appears to be a point of contention beyond this place too it seems.
However there is no sugarcoating it. Jones played terrible football.
Honestly, being super frustrated at being conservative when they need to make plays to come back is a positive to me. I'll take that fire over "oh welp, gee wheez, guess we couldn't pull it off" any day of the week.
Obviously this is all my .02.
I am slowly coming to the conclusion that Mac is not the answer and the Pats should look to move him after this season. I don't think he has the arm, the mobility or the processing speed to succeed in this league. He's not even at the dreaded Dalton Line of being perfectly average. We've seen little to no progress or improvement from him this year.
36 attempts last night for less than 200 yards, 50 of which came on a dump off as a gadget play. That's simply terrible QB play. He can scream for chunk plays all he likes but nearly every time he's dropped back this season for a longer play he's either failed to sense the pressure coming and takes a sack or he's thrown it up for grabs and an INT.
He doesn't have "it." He's not dynamic at all. He has to have everything go perfectly in order to succeed and the entirely of this league is things not going perfectly. He had an opportunity to win a big game against a big divisional rival at home, a rival missing their star pass rusher, and fell flat on his face.
None of this is to say Zappe is any better. He's not. But Mac isn't going to be The Guy, and I really do think that the sooner the team moves forward from him the better off all parties will be. He's likely going to be an excellent backup in the league for a very long time, likely an ideal one, but as a starter he's likely nowhere near good enough.
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He had a chance to make a chunk play and threw the ball 100 feet over Parker's head.
That play is a good example of the difference between college and the NFL. In college often the talent discrepancy is so vast that you can call a play like that a half dozen times in a game, and if it hits 2-3 times you’re golden. In the NFL you may only be able to call that and get the WR open once, maybe twice. So you gotta connect when you can. There’s so much less room for error.
I'm very much coming around to this view as well. I just don't think he has enough of the dreaded "intangibles" to overcome his deficiencies in arm strength and athleticism. I guess my only caveat regarding his lack of progress, and really his regression from last year, is that he has been put in a terrible position by BB in terms of his offensive coaching. As mentioned upthread, it's not inconceivable for a longtime defensive coach to switch and become an effective offensive coach. But that needs to happen gradually, in phases. Handing Patricia the de-facto OC job in year one, with a second year, still developing QB, is bordering on malpractice. If out of stubbornness, or loyalty/cronyism, BB doesn't move on from this experiment in the offseason, and hire a real OC and QB coach, it's going to be hard not to reach the conclusion that he has lost the plot, and maybe, finally, reached the age where he is no longer doing the job to the level of his career standards.
I don't think you have any choice but to keep playing him and hoping he shows some signs of progress, and the line sure as shit isn't helping him, but I'm close to out on Mac right now. He seems like a good kid who works hard, wants to maximize his abilities and has the right attitude to be a good QB. It's not his fault, but in addition to the sub-par arm, he just doesn't seem to process things quickly enough, and can't seem to find a way to make a play when his first read isn't there. It's hard to say for sure since the line has been so bad, but at some point you'd think he would find a way to make a play when he doesn't have a perfect pocket and a wide open receiver, but it seems like he needs both of those things to be successful, which does not bode well for his ability to play at a high level in the NFL.
Thought experiment: If they replay that game last night, having swapped QBs (and nothing else), which team wins?
Not pertaining to anything important, but I had a game last night at 8:50 so missed much of the first half. When I checked the score on my phone I saw "M. Jones pass complete to M. Jones for TD" and I was completely flummoxed. A guy on my team is a Bills fan and said "I kinda like Mac Jones but there's no way he outraced an entire defense for a 50 yard TD"
I think he’s going to have a long Colt McCoy type career as a backup. But as a starter? I’m about as bearish on Mac as it gets. Just doesn’t have the tools, physical or mental.
I think he might have enough tools, however, he needs better guys around him to find out, and if that's not going to happen here, then maybe it's time for something new. Next season can't be this same crew.
Also I'm going to push back on the "Mac was fired up and that's OK" comments from the clip that was shown during the game. He looks like an ass there, he's been terrible and he's letting his frustrations bubble over in public and in unproductive ways. It's time to grow up and act like an adult and work on solving the problems, not to scream at Patricia because you keep stepping on your dick.
Not a fan.
Not a fan.
Amazon had all-22 viewing options live. Was watching it with my friend Matt on the phone. There is a play where Meyers is on a crosser and he’s open and Max just doesn’t see it or doesn’t hit him. I’m screaming at the TV. I can’t remember if he finally see him but any this point Meyers is no longer open or if he threw it away. On that quick out by the goal line it’s a 3 step drop. Both OTs cut block. And Mac hangs onto it and almost is sacked for a safety. Buddy when both OTs are cut blocking you need to hit your depth and release it.
This is what I'm talking about. This isn't on Patricia or the OL or the receivers. This is on Mac being shite.
Hard disagree.
Emotions on the sideline in the heat of the moment are OK. Players voice their opinion on the sideline all the time. Lots of heated exchanges happen that we never hear about. Brady and Bill O'Brien almost went to blows at one time. It's a non-story; there is plenty of story regarding the results (or lack thereof) on the field.
Now, Mac may not be a starting caliber QB in the NFL. IMO, jury is still out, as I think the OL is horrible. But I will not cry if Bill decides to go in a different direction next season, or even plugs Zappe in before the year is out.
Obviously this is an impossible question to answer but my guess is Allen has the tools to win a game where nothing is going right. At present, Jones does not and may never get there.
It's not a non-story because every media and social media site has picked up on it and is broadcasting it and using it to show the discord on the sidelines and thus launching more attacks on Mac and Patricia. It's divisive and harmful and if Mac can't control his emotions better he's going to continue to hurt the team.
And besides...Mac sucked last night. He can STFU about the playcalling and look in the goddamn mirror. I have zero patience for this type of immature nonsense. It's Zack Wilson-esque. Play better.
Now you tell us.
I'll have to look for that in the future. Great feature.Yes, Mac doesn't look good there but those saying it is unusual for the Patriots haven't been paying attention. As mentioned, O'Brien and Brady got in a very public and animated argument. Brady also had sideline arguments with McDaniels and even Weis. You don't want to see this happen often but it does happen.
Brady of course was a Super Bowl winner, future Hall of Famer and the GOAT when he had those arguments.Now you tell us.
Yes, Mac doesn't look good there but those saying it is unusual for the Patriots haven't been paying attention. As mentioned, O'Brien and Brady got in a very public and animated argument. Brady also had sideline arguments with McDaniels and even Weis. You don't want to see this happen often but it does happen.
Mac is a failing 2nd year player on his way to losing his job.
A distinction worth noting.
Couldn’t disagree with the Zach Wilson comment more. Listen to Mac talk, it’s night and day. Granted, he might just suck at NFL level football and no level of good attitude is going to fix that, but it really doesn’t look like an attitude problem to me.
Mac would have been
Mac would have been sacked 8-10 times playing behind the Buff O-line. And then climbed up into the booth to fight Dorsey. So I’m going with the Allen-led Pats.
I was referring to Wilson apparently telling Salah "Why me?" when he got benched. Not the presser stuff, which Mac handled well.
I think it is NE by about the same score. Mac made the Bills D look good last night but they have been a bottom 10 unit for over a month now, they have a lot of injuries they haven't been able to overcome.
That is a very fair point. While I don't think it is a huge deal, I do think Mac was in the wrong and needs to learn from it.