The Michael McCorkle "Mac" Jones Thread

Petagine in a Bottle

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Do we blame the o line/rbs at all for that? Harris had 52 yards on 2 carries...the other 21 carries from Harris/Stevenson netted 39 yards.

edit: conversely...based on that point total logic did Mac play well when they put up 26 vs Baltimore? or the first jets game when they put up 22? both pretty decent point totals...
He threw a combined 1 TD in the Ravens and two Jets games.
 

jezza1918

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He threw a combined 1 TD in the Ravens and two Jets games.
He was brutal in the ravens game (moved the ball well, but too many mistakes), and the first jets game. But they scored a decent amount of points.
I was trying to point out that a team point total might not be totally indicitive of how the QB played...because IMO he played quite good in the 2nd jets game, despite team scoring only 3 points.
 

Cellar-Door

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I think Jakobi is wildly underrated here because he isn't tall/fast looking.
Here are the guys who have as many targets as Jakobi this year and more yards per target:
Hill
Waddle
Jefferson
Higgins
Diggs
AJ Brown
McLaurin
Juju

That's it.
If you go by Targets per game to account for Jakobi misisng time.... you add nobody and take of Juju.
Jakobi produces like an elite WR.

Last year he wasn't quite as good, but still top 25.
 

Jimbodandy

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yeah, I was going to say, All-22 is definitely better for seeing everything than just about any seat at a game, it's the same reason the sidelines need the guys and pictures from the booth, the angles are all wrong to:
1. see everything
2. gauge depth/distance correctly.

It FEELS like you're seeing way more, but really you're just able to choose what to look at when you're at the game, you're not seeing more than the TV cameras, you're just playing director, so you get to choose to focus on things the TV viewer doesn't see. However the all-22 will show you stuff you can't possibly see from the field.
That makes a lot of sense. In general, what you see from a good seat in the 300s to an amateur is probably the same as what you see from an all-22 as described by you and SMU. But to a pro, I buy that the latter is more useful.

Being there (director!) has its advantages over the HDTV feed for sure.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Sitting that close to the field do you actually see enough? I have tickets 17 rows up at SMU and sometimes it gets hard to see the entire field from there especially when it gets close to either end zone or it is a deep pass to the opposite sideline. I get most of my Patriots film opinion from watching plays a few times in all-22. Sometimes my takes change post-game too. Reviewing a game takes like 3 hours at a minimum. I tend to regret it when I have a take on a play I didn't review like the Agholor 4th down miss (on review I did not remember it correctly). I would rather have their TEs and WRs vs the Jaguars. And you're dunking on the Cowboy's coaching? HC? Fine. OC this year? I don't think that's fair and even last year while he had some issues they still had one of the top offenses in the NFL. I just feel like this has gone off the rails a little. The Patriots have a better pass top to bottom catching group than the Jags, Texans, Titans, Ravens, Broncos, Saints, Giants, Bears, and Packers.
Around the same level as or better: Steelers, (Ravens - not sure where they are and mentioned them above?), Rams?
9-11 teams they are either better than or close to. It's not great but they are not that bad. They are an average to a slightly below average receiving room that has more middle of the road options vs stars.

Yes the all-22 shows you all guys at once on one view (you get two views). You get all-22 guys zoomed out from basically a sky cam. The other view shows you just the Off/Def line areas and then zooms out a little and then in towards where the ball is thrown if thrown.
I almost always sit up in the 21st row (I prefer them as they are only 2 seats from the aisle). I've been to north of 200+ Pats games, so if you were asking me in 1995 whether I could see more (or understand more) being at the game vs. watching it on television, I would have said I missed more when I was at the game. After decades of this, I see and catch way more at the game, because you learn what you're looking for, your knowledge of the game grows, etc. We've got unfettered views of everything going on, for the entire game, including commercial timeouts. There are times I can pull out of a phone, zoom in and make out what the opposing QB is looking at on the bench. If a play happens to occur on the other side of the field, near a goal line, there's a 100 foot jumbotron showing me the same view you guys are seeing at home. I don't even have to search the field to know exactly where Belichick is, who he's talking to, where the subs are coming in from, when they go from nickel to dime, etc. It's just second nature at this point. I can probably call a good 25% of the plays from my seats before the snap (or at least where the play is supposed to go) and way over 50% if we're just talking run vs. pass. The game speeds up and slows down.

I think the conversation is going off the rails, because you guys have morphed it from offensive line/skill position players, to just "pass catchers."

You want to tell me that Baltimore offensive line, tight ends, running backs (if they were healthy) isn't better than the Pats? And it also started with the question, of those teams that have worse (or even equally bad) offensive lines/skill position players, how many are sitting at 6-5 with a chance at the playoffs? From your list, that's the Titans, Ravens and Giants. And I think the distinction between them and the Pats is much, much smaller than you probably do.

Throw in the offensive coaching staff, and I'll still stand by the point that Mac Jones is working with less than almost any other QB for any other team, and folks are in here shitting on him on a weekly basis. I don't get it.

And it's the weirdest thing, because I'm not a Mac guy. I just don't understand why BB isn't getting the crap he should be for surrounding Mac with what he has.

But, if folks want to dump Mac and start over, I guess that might work too. I wish the Jags dumped Trevor Lawrence instead of Darrell Bevell. And no, I'm not saying we dump BB, but I'm happy stealing the car keys from him when it comes time to drafting or going and getting offensive players.
 

Deathofthebambino

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I think Jakobi is wildly underrated here because he isn't tall/fast looking.
Here are the guys who have as many targets as Jakobi this year and more yards per target:
Hill
Waddle
Jefferson
Higgins
Diggs
AJ Brown
McLaurin
Juju

That's it.
If you go by Targets per game to account for Jakobi misisng time.... you add nobody and take of Juju.
Jakobi produces like an elite WR.

Last year he wasn't quite as good, but still top 25.
Maybe we should see if we can trade Jakobi straight up for DK Metcalf or Deebo Samuel. I mean, who wouldn't based on those numbers? Or perhaps Amon Ra St. Brown, or Olave, or fuck it, let's just go get Davante Adams, Keenan Allen. Which of our receives would it take to get Garrett Wilson from the Jets? Travis Kelce, Mark Andrews, maybe Ceedee Lamb or Hopkins?

Or maybe the reason he averages so many yards per target is because he's not open as often as these other guys, or maybe he's not open on a route when he's supposed to be, or maybe Mac doesn't have time to wait for him to get open, because he's running away from 300 pounders that his OLine forgot were there? Or maybe it's because he never has to face a double team like that giant group of way better receivers I mentioned? Allowing the opposing defense to do a ton of shit, because they don't have to shade a safety in his direction.

This game is so, so much more complicated than any one stat, I know you know this.
 

Devizier

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I think ranking the quarterbacks misses the point because we’re really arguing whether Mac belongs in the middle or back end of the rather large group of average/mediocre quarterbacks. If he doesn’t make a step ahead I don’t see how it’s worth investing second contract money in him.
 

Cellar-Door

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Maybe we should see if we can trade Jakobi straight up for DK Metcalf or Deebo Samuel. I mean, who wouldn't based on those numbers? Or perhaps Amon Ra St. Brown, or Olave, or fuck it, let's just go get Davante Adams, Keenan Allen. Which of our receives would it take to get Garrett Wilson from the Jets? Travis Kelce, Mark Andrews, maybe Ceedee Lamb or Hopkins?

Or maybe the reason he averages so many yards per target is because he's not open as often as these other guys, or maybe he's not open on a route when he's supposed to be, or maybe Mac doesn't have time to wait for him to get open, because he's running away from 300 pounders that his OLine forgot were there? Or maybe it's because he never has to face a double team like that giant group of way better receivers I mentioned? Allowing the opposing defense to do a ton of shit, because they don't have to shade a safety in his direction.

This game is so, so much more complicated than any one stat, I know you know this.
I do know it. My point wasn't that it meant he was a true elite, I was pointing out that he's better than the Christian Kirk/ Zay Jones volume hound guys that you compared him to using raw totals.
Though Jakobi actually grades out very well in terms of being open. He's a really good WR, he just doesn't have the ceiling some guys have. That he's done what he has the last few years with Cam Newton, Mac Jones and Bailey Zappe throwing him the ball says a lot. I mean, Edelman was similar, nobody was trading him for Megatron or anything, but give him a top QB and he'll put up really big numbers.

Really though the whole point is that very little of the struggles of the offense this year are about the passcatchers or backs, it's mostly QB and Line play (with a bit of coaching). This group is not holding back Mac, if anything it's probably more the reverse, most guys we have produced good numbers with other QBs. The idea that they are holding back Mac, and that's why they're producing less than they did with such luminaries as Tua, Fitzpatrick, Carr, Josh Rosen, Foles, Newton,Tannehill, Jimmy G and Nick Mullens, (even Zappe) doesn't really pass the smell test.
 

SMU_Sox

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Meyers is a good #2 option, a top 30-40 WR. CD thinks top 25. That's maybe a little rich for me but around the start of where I was thinking.

I was talking to Taylor about Jakobi and where you would stack him. Because remember you said Carter or Palmer was better than him.

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I think it's fair to say for whatever reason you are a lot lower on Jakobi than others. I am not sure why that is. He is versatile. He runs routes exceptionally well. He is a fantastic run blocker. He is a great screen blocker. He stalk blocks like a mother-trucker. His RAC is still average at best but it used to be way below average. He used to be an inside only guy and now he can beat press and line up outside. He catches the ball well.

I think the conversation is going off the rails, because you guys have morphed it from offensive line/skill position players, to just "pass catchers."

You want to tell me that Baltimore offensive line, tight ends, running backs (if they were healthy) isn't better than the Pats? And it also started with the question, of those teams that have worse (or even equally bad) offensive lines/skill position players, how many are sitting at 6-5 with a chance at the playoffs? From your list, that's the Titans, Ravens and Giants. And I think the distinction between them and the Pats is much, much smaller than you probably do.

Throw in the offensive coaching staff, and I'll still stand by the point that Mac Jones is working with less than almost any other QB for any other team, and folks are in here shitting on him on a weekly basis. I don't get it.

And it's the weirdest thing, because I'm not a Mac guy. I just don't understand why BB isn't getting the crap he should be for surrounding Mac with what he has.
Respectfully I'm posting pretty detailed pass rushing numbers as well as going over who got beat almost every week. I use that to help paint the picture of why Mac is struggling and to even stick up for Mac that he doesn't take that many poor sacks that are on him. I don't find it helpful to say which OL I'd rather have because that's really hard to do and I sincerely doubt my ability to know the nuances of all 32 teams lines. To have an opinion on that would require a lot of work. I simply know I wouldn't be able to have a good enough one on it. There are 160 starting OLs and some teams have a revolving door. I'd probably need to know 200 or so OL to have a decent opinion on them. Whereas with TEs/RBs/WRs (and I have always looked at pass catchers as a wholistic unit not just now!) I have enough film and raw data and podcasts and all that crap rattling around in my head to know just enough to be dangerous. It's easier to evaluate WRs and TEs and RBs than it is to evaluate OL too. Whereas OLs are units that have to win by no one losing WRs, TEs, RBs actually have to win and not just not lose...

Also I posted that since week 7 he's had a bottom 10 pass protection minus vs the Vikings. Early on, weeks 1 and 2 especially, he had good protection. His pressure rate was one of the lowest in the league.

The Patriots have better RBs than the Ravens. The Ravens RBs if healthy is a weird thing to say because they are never healthy. I loved Dobbins too. Rham is on his way to being a pro-bowler. Yeah that's easy. Top to bottom the Patriots have better WRs. The Ravens are universally getting dumped on for the lack of quality of their WR room even including my dude Bateman being hurt. The only room they have better of the pass catchers is tight end. What's the point of bringing up their OLs health and saying if healthy if it's pretty clear that their OTs are NEVER healthy and they need to unfortunately find replacements. Do we get to play that game with Wynn and if he were healthy and didn't lose a lot of his athleticism? Is Lamar playing behind a healthy OL right now or for the entire season? No and no. I am not interested in an "if they were healthy" hypothetical with a group of guys who haven't been healthy in like 3 years. That being said the Ravens OL is still a good unit. They have the 4th best individual pass-blocking win rate. I would give the Ravens the big edge with OL just because of pass pro. So the Patriots have better RBs and WRs but the Ravens have better OL and TE. What offensive situation is better? I don't know. The Ravens can't run block either so I would guess the Patriots have an overall better offensive situation. The guys on the Athletic pod were dunking on how bad the Ravens offensive situation is minus Lamar and Andrews so YMMV. You could call it a tie too. There are ways to scheme around not having a good OL. You can't really scheme around having no skilled position talent.

Or maybe the reason he averages so many yards per target is because he's not open as often as these other guys, or maybe he's not open on a route when he's supposed to be, or maybe Mac doesn't have time to wait for him to get open, because he's running away from 300 pounders that his OLine forgot were there? Or maybe it's because he never has to face a double team like that giant group of way better receivers I mentioned? Allowing the opposing defense to do a ton of shit, because they don't have to shade a safety in his direction.

This game is so, so much more complicated than any one stat, I know you know this.

Here are some more Meyers stats that maybe hopefully would change your mind a bit:

19th of 94 for WRs in yards per route run vs man coverage. No drops. 4/6 on contested catches. Now sure those last two are nice little small sample size throwaways. 16th best yards per route run vs zone coverage. He's freaking top 20 vs zone or man coverage. When Mac throws to Jakobi he has a 131.6 QB rating which is a shit stat but it's the 4th best of those 94 receivers this year.

He gets open. He runs the right route. All receivers fuck up occasionally with that. Not usually an issue for JM. A lot of receivers get double-teamed. But I think you are drastically inflating how often guys actually do get double-teamed. Like of his list Waddle, Higgins, Brown, Juju, and even Hill are not getting double-teamed much at all. Part of that is schematically their OCs move them around or put them in motion. Part of that is they are on teams where you can't get away with doubling a guy. Jakobi will get double teamed too but a lot of times he can avoid it because he is running behind a clear-out route.

Last year remember we were talking about Meyers with a low, 6.9 yards per target. This year he is running harder and more vertical routes.

I am having trouble finding the other receivers you mentioned. I searched the last 3 pages and couldn't find a list.

Your original question:

If you could straight up trade the entire Pats offensive line, and all of their skill position players (not the QB), which teams in the NFL would do that trade with the Pats? Which teams would you not do it with?
What makes this hard is you are asking something that involves WR, RB, TE, and the entire OL their health, contract status, what scheme they run vs what the Pats like. It's also, like I said earlier, a question that would involve knowing a lot of information that I don't think anyone including me could do accurately. You would have to have knowledge of like 700ish players if not more. You seem to value your opinion based on (largely?) you go to a lot of games and you get quality observations from those games. Makes sense. But you only go to the Patriots games. How do you know so much about the other 31 teams holistically that you feel comfortable answering this with the confidence that you have. To me if anyone here including me was super confident in their opinion on this super complex and multi-variable question it would strike me as a good example of the Dunning Kruger effect and that's just the quality of the player on the field. Once you add contract status, age, health, and those considerations you'd have to have an incredible depth and breadth of knowledge. You could do a ballpark estimate of things I guess but when you're asking such a broad question it makes it difficult.

You might be able to figure out which individual groups you would trade or not trade like WRs, RBs, TEs, and maybe even OL. When you ask about all of them you add another layer of complexity because what if say the team would love to have the Patriots WRs and RBs but not their TEs or OL? It's just a messy question. If you want to instead ask who has the better offensive supporting cast it's still a hard question to answer but at least you don't have to factor in health, contract status, value of units, etc.

Edit: Lamar is basically carrying the team on his back. It is nuts. He's throwing to Andrews and no one else. No RBs. No run blocking. Wish he had more help.
 
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Deathofthebambino

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I'll give you a much more in depth response tomorrow, because as always, you certainly deserve it. Your opinions and posts are always welcome.

I will say this about Jakobi. I don't disagree at all that he's a top 30-40 receiver. I like Jakobi. He's an NFL quality receiver.

That's the entire problem though, isn't it? He's OUR #1. And our #2, whether you say it's Parker or Bourne or Agholor (personally, I think Bourne is the best of the 3), aren't good #2's. So we have a good #2 playing as a #1, and a bunch of #3's and #4's fighting for #2. That's bad. Really bad, in today's NFL. It's even worse with a young QB, a bad offensive line, no real offensive coordinator, shit playcalling and a lot of moving parts. You've got a talented TE in Jonnu Smith, who for some reason, can't put it together and another tight end that is essentially a red zone target.

This team seems to be moving the ball ok to good between the 20's.They can scheme a big play here and there and reel off chunks on the ground at times, but they become a disaster in the red zone. That's where big time players make plays. They don't have those players who can get shit done when plays break down, or when the field gets smaller.

This is a thread about Mac Jones. A 24 year old QB who, IMO, would outplay a guy like Kirk Cousins if you traded them straight up for each other right now, and stuck Mac in that situation. Other folks may disagree. No, Mac is not Mahomes or Allen or Burrow or Herbert. Those guys include two #1 picks, a #6 and a #10 (that the NFL scouts whiffed on). But nobody in their right mind thought Mac was one of those guys. In a given year, with the right team around him, I think Mac can easily be a top 8-13 QB. Not great, not bad, and with the added wins you get from a normal Pats defense, and BB's coaching, that should be enough to compete. But I think BB is putting way too much on Mac's shoulders with the roster he's built around him. That's really all it is.

And whoever asked me about dunking on the Dallas coaching staff. That was tongue in cheek. I never miss a chance to dunk on Cowboys coaches. I actually like the Cowboys, but hate Jerry Jones and think he's fucked up that franchise for decades because of his coaching decisions.
 

Super Nomario

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He threw a combined 1 TD in the Ravens and two Jets games.
Some of this is elective though. Like, the opening TD drive in Q3 vs Baltimore, Mac completed 61 yards of passes on a 75-yard drive, but Harris punched it in from two yards out. If they score a bunch of points and Mac's moving the ball, IDGAF how they actually score and don't think it should reflect on Mac's performance if they decide to run it in at the goal line.

The offense has struggled at just about everything. They turn the ball over too much (better lately), they don't move the ball particularly well, they're bad situationally (3rd / 4th down and red zone), too many sacks, etc. There's plenty to legitimately criticize them for; pointing out that they ran the ball in rather than threw TDs in a rare game where the offense actually moved the ball and put up points is missing the forest for the trees IMO.

He was brutal in the ravens game (moved the ball well, but too many mistakes), and the first jets game. But they scored a decent amount of points.
I was trying to point out that a team point total might not be totally indicitive of how the QB played...because IMO he played quite good in the 2nd jets game, despite team scoring only 3 points.
I don't think the correlation is symmetric. Probably every couple weeks there's a game where a team puts up 25-30 points without the QB playing well (or at least, not particularly well) - maybe the run game blows up, or there's a defensive or ST score (or big play setting up a short field for the O). It's a lot harder to find examples where a team's passing game is effective but it only leads to three points. It's hard to do, maybe impossible in this day and age. I guess you could complete a lot of big passes and the RBs continually fumble on the goal line? But that's not what happened vs the Jets.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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That’s fair, but can the Pats actually score red zone TD’s by throwing the ball? I kinda think that’s a big part of the problem; and it kind of existed prior to Max getting here ever since Gronk “retired”.
 

Deathofthebambino

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I am having trouble finding the other receivers you mentioned. I searched the last 3 pages and couldn't find a list.
FYI, this was the list I was referencing, all guys with worse y/t than Jakobi:

Maybe we should see if we can trade Jakobi straight up for DK Metcalf or Deebo Samuel. I mean, who wouldn't based on those numbers? Or perhaps Amon Ra St. Brown, or Olave, or fuck it, let's just go get Davante Adams, Keenan Allen. Which of our receives would it take to get Garrett Wilson from the Jets? Travis Kelce, Mark Andrews, maybe Ceedee Lamb or Hopkins?

I was obviously being sarcastic, but when I see a stat that purports to show Jakobi as better than any of those guys, I can't take it seriously. The game is way more nuanced, obviously.

It won't matter anyway, because Jakobi is apparently in line now to sign in the offseason for Christian Kirk type numbers, 4/72 million and 30mil guaranteed. I guess we'll find out if BB is as enthralled with him as we are, or if he goes out and grabs a couple guys like Parker and Agholor who have a combined 20mil cap hit this season.
 

SMU_Sox

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@Super Nomario I know you don't like DVOA but:

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The reason they only scored 3 points is because their run game was absolutely non-existent, they missed 2 FGs, and they sucked on 3rd downs and in the red zone. Mac took a bad sack too. Mac's EPA per dropback was -0.065 but had a +9.8 CPOE. Makes sense - they drove the ball efficiently and completed a lot of passes hence the good DVOA and CPOE but ultimately he had some really bad negative plays like a bad sack. His success rate was also low 21st on the day. They were trying to dink and dunk the Jets. Film review was mixed - I thought he had an average to above average game. He operated in the structure they gave him but they also had a limited scheme. I'd give him a B-/B/B+ somewhere in there for it. PFF, Perry, Lazar, Taylor Kyles are in that range too. I think Bedard liked his game too but I am not sure if I respect him - he might be someone who stirs the pot a lot but has a decent game take? Like he might know his ball a lot but is a drama spreader. I don't know.

I would blame a lot of other people before I blamed Mac for the 3 point problem even though he is the QB and he was partly responsible.
 

SMU_Sox

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I think Deebo is a little overrated in some areas as a receiver. For example he's not really someone who beats man coverage well. Wasn't a man beater coming out either. Was more of a slot guy who had really good RAC. And that's basically what he is now. Well that and "weapon".
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This is yards per route run vs man coverage for the 94 receivers with 20% snaps. He's not elite but he's in that really good 2nd tier vs it. In 2021 he was 1.84, 45th out of 103. In 2020 he was 2.64, 12th out of 86th. In 2019: 1.61 51st out of 98. 2021 was weird because he got a lot of receptions but was usually a short yardage guy. Still, Meyers is someone who is somewhere in the top half of the league vs man coverage. I think given who is on the list this should pass the smell test. D. Adams is 25th this year.

I know you're probably thinking WTF is Agholor doing there but Agholor was producing when he was getting snaps but he fumbled twice and then didn't get many snaps. He has 53 routes run vs man coverage so his Y/RR is a little flukey. He had a couple big plays that spiked his numbers up. It kind of stinks with him because he's so damn streaky. He's such a maddening receiver.

Meyers is a versatile #2 guy but does his best damage inside. He isn't a #1. They could use a #1. Meyers is an above average #2.

I think for me I would acknowledge Mac has a below average supporting cast but I am more concerned about the offensive coaching and the OL coaching. If they had a better line and an elite pass catcher at TE or WR this unit could easily be top 10 worthy because they have a lot of quality depth. If say D. Adams was your best receiver and you added him to Meyers, Parker, Thornton, Agholor, and Bourne that is a smashing WR room. Now you can really min-max what guys are good at. Or even next year if the room was like D. Adams with Meyers, Parker, Bourne and Thornton and without Nelson you could get excited about that room. The TEs are meh but with the RBs as long as they fixed the OL that is a good unit on paper. A lot of smarter people than me like Kurt Warner, JTO, Lazar, The Athletic, have commented on the scheme and offensive coaching being an issue. Let's see how the rest of the year plays out. It's Matty P's first shot doing this.

With Mac my priority would still be building the line first. I think with adequate protection he can produce with this cast. My concern is that they might need to start to think about replacing Andrews because he's been hurt and is getting up there as well as hasn't looked like himself physically this year. There is no guarantee Strange gets better but I think he will. Brown is always an injury risk and he has been sloppy and inconsistent this year. They need a RT. So like the entire line minus Onwenu has question marks around them. You can live with Andrews and Strange as starters but you need to replace 1-2 OTs and you need a better backup C than Ferentz. I love Ferentz but at this point you should be looking for your center of the future and keep Ferentz on the PS or as OL8-9. Ferentz is ok plywood on the interior for a game or two. You really don't want him starting more than that. There's a lot more work to do rebuilding OT depth too. So while they could really use a #1 kind of pass catching option to me if they don't invest a considerable amount of resources in the line it's all for naught.

Mac has been hitting more of the deep stuff this year when it is available. He's throwing it deeper too. I would put 1 of his ints on him there but aside from that his decision making on deeper stuff has been fine. So if you protect him he can make it work with the guys they have... I think. I don't know that for sure and if you came away with the opposite take there is data to support you too.

Edit: One last note about why the line… look they haven’t been able to run it on third down or the red zone and convert right? Having a line that can run block would help them on third down, staying ahead of the chains on early downs instead of running for 2-3 yards, and definitely in the red zone. Having a better running game would help Mac and this offense and right now it’s a detriment to the offense. They can’t even run well vs lighter boxes. You would see duo Vs 6 in the box and Strange and Ferentz lose. On. A. Double. Team. Like if you can’t fucking win hat on a hat in the box with Duo? 6 in the box and you still can’t win? What are we doing here? I’m going to take a little break from the thread.
 
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ponch73

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@Super Nomario I know you don't like DVOA but:

View attachment 58304

The reason they only scored 3 points is because their run game was absolutely non-existent, they missed 2 FGs, and they sucked on 3rd downs and in the red zone. Mac took a bad sack too. Mac's EPA per dropback was -0.065 but had a +9.8 CPOE. Makes sense - they drove the ball efficiently and completed a lot of passes hence the good DVOA and CPOE but ultimately he had some really bad negative plays like a bad sack. His success rate was also low 21st on the day. They were trying to dink and dunk the Jets. Film review was mixed - I thought he had an average to above average game. He operated in the structure they gave him but they also had a limited scheme. I'd give him a B-/B/B+ somewhere in there for it. PFF, Perry, Lazar, Taylor Kyles are in that range too. I think Bedard liked his game too but I am not sure if I respect him - he might be someone who stirs the pot a lot but has a decent game take? Like he might know his ball a lot but is a drama spreader. I don't know.

I would blame a lot of other people before I blamed Mac for the 3 point problem even though he is the QB and he was partly responsible.
I'm surprised the Passing DVOA in Week 2 vs the Steelers was that high. I didn't think Mac played particularly well in that game (21 of 35 for 252 yards with 1 TD and 1 INT), but my judging the 44 yard TD to Agholor as luck on a poorly-thrown ball might be too harsh (Agholor plucked it off the DB's helmet, but Mac should get some credit for recognizing that he had Agholor 1-on-1 down the sideline). All of the other weeks' Passing Offense DVOA's look to be on point.

After we play the Bills tomorrow night, I wonder if we're going to look back fondly on Mac's Week 10 performance (his 4th best week according to DVOA) ... (ducking)
 

Eddie Jurak

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With Mac my priority would still be building the line first. I think with adequate protection he can produce with this cast. My concern is that they might need to start to think about replacing Andrews because he's been hurt and is getting up there as well as hasn't looked like himself physically this year. There is no guarantee Strange gets better but I think he will. Brown is always an injury risk and he has been sloppy and inconsistent this year. They need a RT. So like the entire line minus Onwenu has question marks around them. You can live with Andrews and Strange as starters but you need to replace 1-2 OTs and you need a better backup C than Ferentz. I love Ferentz but at this point you should be looking for your center of the future and keep Ferentz on the PS or as OL8-9. Ferentz is ok plywood on the interior for a game or two. You really don't want him starting more than that. There's a lot more work to do rebuilding OT depth too. So while they could really use a #1 kind of pass catching option to me if they don't invest a considerable amount of resources in the line it's all for naught.

Mac has been hitting more of the deep stuff this year when it is available. He's throwing it deeper too. I would put 1 of his ints on him there but aside from that his decision making on deeper stuff has been fine. So if you protect him he can make it work with the guys they have... I think. I don't know that for sure and if you came away with the opposite take there is data to support you too.
I think this is right. They need to protect him well enough to have a deeper passing game. They haven't this year.
 

Super Nomario

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@Super Nomario I know you don't like DVOA but:

View attachment 58304

The reason they only scored 3 points is because their run game was absolutely non-existent, they missed 2 FGs, and they sucked on 3rd downs and in the red zone. Mac took a bad sack too. Mac's EPA per dropback was -0.065 but had a +9.8 CPOE. Makes sense - they drove the ball efficiently and completed a lot of passes hence the good DVOA and CPOE but ultimately he had some really bad negative plays like a bad sack. His success rate was also low 21st on the day. They were trying to dink and dunk the Jets. Film review was mixed - I thought he had an average to above average game. He operated in the structure they gave him but they also had a limited scheme. I'd give him a B-/B/B+ somewhere in there for it. PFF, Perry, Lazar, Taylor Kyles are in that range too. I think Bedard liked his game too but I am not sure if I respect him - he might be someone who stirs the pot a lot but has a decent game take? Like he might know his ball a lot but is a drama spreader. I don't know.

I would blame a lot of other people before I blamed Mac for the 3 point problem even though he is the QB and he was partly responsible.
FO loves them some Bailey Zappe, apparently.

I don't like DVOA, and a big reason is the black boxiness that makes it useless as a discussion point. Why is DVOA so much higher than EPA? It's pretty heavily tied to success rate, we know that, but, as you note, the success rate was not good. It adds in (arbitrary) bonuses for redzone, but we know that was bad. If you have VOA, we can judge how much is because of the Jets' defense (IMO the only actual useful part of DVOA).

FO once showed us how the sausage is made, and it's pretty clear that a) they assign too much partial credit for positive yards plays that are not successful (i.e., do not increase the probability of converting a first down) and b) don't appropriately weight plays when you have a couple long drives and a bunch of short ones (this is not a uniquely DVOA problem but a general problem with per-play statistics [such as Y/A and its derivatives, which also rates Mac highly for the Jets game]. The fundamental unit of opportunity in football is the drive, not the play, but almost all stats are per-play rather than per-drive). The Patriots had three drives that ended with FG attempts and ran 32 plays on those three drives, because they converted multiple first downs. The other eight drives were so bad that they only ran 30 plays total! A per-play weighting suggests the offense was effective half the time, but on a drive basis (the actual unit of opportunity), they were bad 8/11 (73%). @ponch73 points out the Steelers game is surprisingly high and it has the same issue.

This tangent has already gone on way too long, but to me, stats are useful when they tell us something we don't know. It's interesting that DVOA is so much higher than the results (points, yards) suggest or something actually value- (not VOA "value") based like EPA. But the interrogation stops there because DVOA does not explain itself. So we're left with either a) DVOA tells us nothing interesting because it aligns with other stats or b) DVOA tells us something different but we cannot explore that any further. So DVOA can go to hell IMO.

They did complete a lot of passes, but I would not say they drove the ball efficiently. 300 yards is not good, even against the Jets. They drove the ball more than 3 points effectively, but probably not more than, say, 10-14 points effectively.

All that said, I agree the run game was a much bigger culprit. It was really really bad, and put the passing O in tough spots, which it was not able to overcome. I can agree with rating it an OK performance or maybe even an incomplete ("what could he really do?") but good? I have a hard time. You put anybody in there, they could score 3.
 

j44thor

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I think Deebo is a little overrated in some areas as a receiver. For example he's not really someone who beats man coverage well. Wasn't a man beater coming out either. Was more of a slot guy who had really good RAC. And that's basically what he is now. Well that and "weapon".
Meyers is a versatile #2 guy but does his best damage inside. He isn't a #1. They could use a #1. Meyers is an above average #2.

I think for me I would acknowledge Mac has a below average supporting cast but I am more concerned about the offensive coaching and the OL coaching. If they had a better line and an elite pass catcher at TE or WR this unit could easily be top 10 worthy because they have a lot of quality depth.

Edit: One last note about why the line… look they haven’t been able to run it on third down or the red zone and convert right? Having a line that can run block would help them on third down, staying ahead of the chains on early downs instead of running for 2-3 yards, and definitely in the red zone. Having a better running game would help Mac and this offense and right now it’s a detriment to the offense. They can’t even run well vs lighter boxes. You would see duo Vs 6 in the box and Strange and Ferentz lose. On. A. Double. Team. Like if you can’t fucking win hat on a hat in the box with Duo? 6 in the box and you still can’t win? What are we doing here? I’m going to take a little break from the thread.
Regarding Deebo what makes him unique is his ability to line up in the backfield and provide near elite production there. We saw what happened when Meyers lined up in the backfield.
Yes Meyers would be an above average #2 but unfortunately the cost to acquire a true #1 is very high. They are quickly becoming the 2nd or 3rd highest paid position (elite DT being the only one close) so you either need to invest a high draft pick and hit or pay a premium in trade plus a massive contract Tyreek, Adams.
The OL is definitely the biggest area of need but if one of the top 3-4 WR this year somehow fall to NE I hope they consider them, doubtful but not out of the question that an Addison or Jackson Smith will be there when they pick, then rebuild the OL through the rest of the draft. Really wish they spent less picks on the RB position the last draft and more on the OL. This RB class looks like it will potentially be historic compared to last years that was largely considered well below average. Where they picked Strong they could probably get someone closer to Rham quality this coming draft. Unfortunately the WR class isn't nearly as deep so if they don't hit early they probably aren't finding the answer to a true #1. There is the elite TE out of ND that could be there when they draft as well, perhaps that is the better route assuming the top WRs are off the board.

I think 24 becomes the make or break season for Mac. NE will have plenty of cap space to fix the OL and hopefully bring in a couple additional weapons for the offense while keeping the D largely in tact.
 

Cellar-Door

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Don't know if this has been posted before (apologies if it has been) but this is an interesting analysis from Kurt Warner.
View: https://youtu.be/UL9MdsqPt_4
This is really good. Points out good and bad in playcalling, and Mac. I might disagree a bit with him about the offense, since some of the things he's criticizing are the adjustments they made to make it easier for Mac, which seem to be working. I do wish we were more creative too, but when they've tried... it hasn't been executed (though they've tried limited times).
Warner has a great eye for detail though, lot of plays where he's showing you issues with feet/eyes from the QB, or bad decisions/throws that turned into catches, or conversely, where he doesn't like how a route is designed/run. The margin for error on QB play is so low in the NFL, consistency is key.
 

Deathofthebambino

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I think for me I would acknowledge Mac has a below average supporting cast but I am more concerned about the offensive coaching and the OL coaching. If they had a better line and an elite pass catcher at TE or WR this unit could easily be top 10 worthy because they have a lot of quality depth. If say D. Adams was your best receiver and you added him to Meyers, Parker, Thornton, Agholor, and Bourne that is a smashing WR room. Now you can really min-max what guys are good at. Or even next year if the room was like D. Adams with Meyers, Parker, Bourne and Thornton and without Nelson you could get excited about that room. The TEs are meh but with the RBs as long as they fixed the OL that is a good unit on paper. A lot of smarter people than me like Kurt Warner, JTO, Lazar, The Athletic, have commented on the scheme and offensive coaching being an issue. Let's see how the rest of the year plays out. It's Matty P's first shot doing this.

With Mac my priority would still be building the line first. I think with adequate protection he can produce with this cast. My concern is that they might need to start to think about replacing Andrews because he's been hurt and is getting up there as well as hasn't looked like himself physically this year. There is no guarantee Strange gets better but I think he will. Brown is always an injury risk and he has been sloppy and inconsistent this year. They need a RT. So like the entire line minus Onwenu has question marks around them. You can live with Andrews and Strange as starters but you need to replace 1-2 OTs and you need a better backup C than Ferentz. I love Ferentz but at this point you should be looking for your center of the future and keep Ferentz on the PS or as OL8-9. Ferentz is ok plywood on the interior for a game or two. You really don't want him starting more than that. There's a lot more work to do rebuilding OT depth too. So while they could really use a #1 kind of pass catching option to me if they don't invest a considerable amount of resources in the line it's all for naught.
The bolded is what I've been trying to say all along. People want/expect this offense to be top 10 right now, but Mac doesn't have the guys to turn this offense into a top 10 offense, either at the skill positions or on the offensive line.

If the Pats had Adams, and Mac was still out there putting up the same numbers, I'd be the first one in here ready to write him off. Shit, if they had an adequate offensive line and a clone of Jakobi Meyers instead of Adams, I'd expect top 12-14 from the unit. But they don't, and folks are ready to deal Mac, and start looking for help in the draft again. Help in the draft doesn't matter if you don't surround your young QB with some talent.

Josh Allen in his 2nd year completed 58.8%, threw for less than 200ypg and had a rating of 85.7. I would argue he had a supporting cast in that season that is equivalent to Mac's this year with John Brown (who went for 72, 1,060 and 6tds), Beasley, McKenzie, Gore and Singletary, with Dawson Knox.

In year 3 (next year for Mac), they went out and got Diggs, which changed everything. Diggs goes and catches 127 passes, but on the other side, Beasley becomes a slot monster catching 82 for almost 1,000 yards. John Brown becomes the #3 option and Gabe Davis all of a sudden is running free for 17.1ypc and 7td's.

Now, even with Diggs, I don't think Mac goes out and matches Josh Allen's year 3 numbers, 4,500, 37tds, 107 rating, but that's how big the "leap" is to an offense in today's game.

Jalen Hurts, in year 2 last year, completed 61% of his passes, only had 16td's (9 picks), 87.2 rating. His best receiver was a rookie in Smith, with the formidable Quez Watkins on other side. Ertz got hurt, and Goedert stepped in and played well.

In year 3, they go and get him AJ Brown. and he's completing 67.3% of his passes, he's got 17td's to 3ints, his yardage total is up 30ypg (through the air) and his rating is 105.6. Brown is obviously a monster, but more importantly, it moved Smith to the #2, where's thriving (and leading the team in receptions). It opened up the middle of the field for Goedert, who was on pace for 80 catches and 1,000 yards before he got hurt and completely fucked my fantasy team, but I digress, and they have weapons all over the field for the red zone, because Brown draws so much attention.

That's all I'm asking. Let's give Mac a guy like the Eagles and Bills did for their young QB's before we decide to rebuild for another 3 years. And that doesn't mean going out and bringing in a guy like Parker for short money or an old Agholor whose only real skill ever was speed. Unfortunately, I just don't think Bill is the guy to make that move, or if he does try to go get someone, he'll mess it up. He tried and failed with N'Keal Harry and so many others over the years, and now he seems to want some bargain basement deals that he thinks he can turn into stars, which he can do with defensive guys in his sleep. And then he compounded that by giving Mac almost no help at coordinator.

And it's going to be blowing again tonight in Foxboro, so folks shouldn't be surprised if Mac is playing the same kind of game he played against the Jets a couple weeks ago.
 

Super Nomario

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Don't know if this has been posted before (apologies if it has been) but this is an interesting analysis from Kurt Warner.
View: https://youtu.be/UL9MdsqPt_4
Amazing watch. Maybe the most interesting part is that I don't think he singles out the offensive line one time.

The continual refrain is "details" and it's not clear to me (and probably not to Warner) whether it's a matter of how the plays are drawn up, how the nuances are taught, or how the players are executing. Probably some of all it at times..

This is really good. Points out good and bad in playcalling, and Mac. I might disagree a bit with him about the offense, since some of the things he's criticizing are the adjustments they made to make it easier for Mac, which seem to be working. I do wish we were more creative too, but when they've tried... it hasn't been executed (though they've tried limited times).
Yeah, I think it's hard to criticize them too much for variety / creativity when they are clearly having such issues with details / execution. Like, if you can't get this stuff you're running repeatedly right, how can you expand the playbook?
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Doesn’t Mac have virtually the same offensive weapons he had last year? The variables that have changed are Josh is gone and some changes on the line.
 

phineas gage

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Warner is really good at this type of analysis--former top-level NFL QB obviously, but also exceptional at explaining details to viewers with clarity and precision.

I find it rather ominous that Jones is often looking in completely the wrong direction, well behind the evolving play. If he is not able to view the field properly in real time, I don't think there is much hope that he can ever be a top-level decision maker. And if he can't do that, given his physical limitations, he doesn't have much of a future.
 

Cellar-Door

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Doesn’t Mac have virtually the same offensive weapons he had last year? The variables that have changed are Josh is gone and some changes on the line.
Honestly better weapons, he added Devante Parker who was a low end #1 then a solid #2 in Miami (when healthy). The line is definitely worse though, and for Mac that's going to make a big difference. Mac is not good with pressure, and he's not mobile enough to scare teams, so he's particularly vulnerable to line issues. Problem is his mechanics have fallen apart too, his footwork wasn't great last year, but it's a lot worse now as he gets sloppy anticipating pressure (sometimes correctly, sometimes not).
 

Salem's Lot

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Honestly better weapons, he added Devante Parker who was a low end #1 then a solid #2 in Miami (when healthy). The line is definitely worse though, and for Mac that's going to make a big difference. Mac is not good with pressure, and he's not mobile enough to scare teams, so he's particularly vulnerable to line issues. Problem is his mechanics have fallen apart too, his footwork wasn't great last year, but it's a lot worse now as he gets sloppy anticipating pressure (sometimes correctly, sometimes not).
Let’s not forget about the massive drop off in the coaching that he’s receiving from his new coordinators.
 

Cellar-Door

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Let’s not forget about the massive drop off in the coaching that he’s receiving from his new coordinators.
Sure, definitely a factor to go from one of the best in the league to new guys. I'd say it's the 3rd biggest contributor after Mac and the Line, great coordinators can paper over flaws. On the other hand, I don't think Joe Judge is in practice saying "Hey Mac, you know how Aaron Rodgers sometimes throws off platform fadeaway passes because he's a freakish talent..... why don't you do that 5-10 times a game". Coordinators could help, and better line play would definitely help, but Mac is not doing the basics far too consistently, and that's a problem. I was a major critic of the coordinator early season, but he's improved a lot, he built really good gameplans for Zappe, and he's overhauled a lot of things to help Mac since he returned from injury (Jets game in particular)... he's still below average, but execution by the players is a much bigger issue for us right now than playcalling.

Edit- honestly the worst coaching right now might be Patricia as line coach, but who knows... line coaching is such a black box it's tough to figure out what's happening there. Could be the coaching, could just be guys playing bad.
 

EricFeczko

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and again, it looks like Mac's adjustments at the line could be accounting for some of these poor plays we're seeing -- such as the 6 play drive we saw to end the half

from the poorly placed sideline throws to the odd adjustments for sneaking and running the ball on the 35 -- Mac Jones looked bad even when getting sufficient OL protection. It seems he's only effective when given all the time in the world -- e.g. the 2nd series of the game -- which is true of nearly every NFL QB today.
 

Cellar-Door

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Mac's last drive was Cam Newton-esque in terms of accuracy. Thornton made two great catches, Rham had to make difficult catches on wide open dumpoffs and screens, Parker had a great catch, and broke up what looked like a sure INT. He also missed open guys badly and got Meyers crushed. And most of those throws were with very little or no pressure. On other plays of the drive he had no chance, but when the blocking held up and the WRs/TEs won their matchups he didn't give them a chance.

The only people who looked good on offense tonight were the WRs (and Henry).
 

BaseballJones

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It's unreal that thanks to the penalty, they had first and goal from the 8 and ended up at the 21. Ridiculous.
 

ragnarok725

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The bolded is what I've been trying to say all along. People want/expect this offense to be top 10 right now, but Mac doesn't have the guys to turn this offense into a top 10 offense, either at the skill positions or on the offensive line.

If the Pats had Adams, and Mac was still out there putting up the same numbers, I'd be the first one in here ready to write him off. Shit, if they had an adequate offensive line and a clone of Jakobi Meyers instead of Adams, I'd expect top 12-14 from the unit. But they don't, and folks are ready to deal Mac, and start looking for help in the draft again. Help in the draft doesn't matter if you don't surround your young QB with some talent.

Josh Allen in his 2nd year completed 58.8%, threw for less than 200ypg and had a rating of 85.7. I would argue he had a supporting cast in that season that is equivalent to Mac's this year with John Brown (who went for 72, 1,060 and 6tds), Beasley, McKenzie, Gore and Singletary, with Dawson Knox.

In year 3 (next year for Mac), they went out and got Diggs, which changed everything. Diggs goes and catches 127 passes, but on the other side, Beasley becomes a slot monster catching 82 for almost 1,000 yards. John Brown becomes the #3 option and Gabe Davis all of a sudden is running free for 17.1ypc and 7td's.

Now, even with Diggs, I don't think Mac goes out and matches Josh Allen's year 3 numbers, 4,500, 37tds, 107 rating, but that's how big the "leap" is to an offense in today's game.

Jalen Hurts, in year 2 last year, completed 61% of his passes, only had 16td's (9 picks), 87.2 rating. His best receiver was a rookie in Smith, with the formidable Quez Watkins on other side. Ertz got hurt, and Goedert stepped in and played well.

In year 3, they go and get him AJ Brown. and he's completing 67.3% of his passes, he's got 17td's to 3ints, his yardage total is up 30ypg (through the air) and his rating is 105.6. Brown is obviously a monster, but more importantly, it moved Smith to the #2, where's thriving (and leading the team in receptions). It opened up the middle of the field for Goedert, who was on pace for 80 catches and 1,000 yards before he got hurt and completely fucked my fantasy team, but I digress, and they have weapons all over the field for the red zone, because Brown draws so much attention.

That's all I'm asking. Let's give Mac a guy like the Eagles and Bills did for their young QB's before we decide to rebuild for another 3 years. And that doesn't mean going out and bringing in a guy like Parker for short money or an old Agholor whose only real skill ever was speed. Unfortunately, I just don't think Bill is the guy to make that move, or if he does try to go get someone, he'll mess it up. He tried and failed with N'Keal Harry and so many others over the years, and now he seems to want some bargain basement deals that he thinks he can turn into stars, which he can do with defensive guys in his sleep. And then he compounded that by giving Mac almost no help at coordinator.

And it's going to be blowing again tonight in Foxboro, so folks shouldn't be surprised if Mac is playing the same kind of game he played against the Jets a couple weeks ago.
I don't think you can compare the development pattern of toolsy QBs trying to figure out the game to a guy like Mac. With Allen, Hurts, and even Tua, you knew if they figured it out they'd be monsters because of their physical talent.

Given his athletic and arm strength limitations, what do you think Mac's ceiling is? Is it higher than "average NFL starter"? If not, what are we doing here? Why bother stocking the offense to try to get a guy to develop from mediocre to average? That team is still not going anywhere.

And just to be clear, it's not like they're not trying to give him weapons. They used a high draft pick on Tyquan, traded for Parker, and threw tons of money at Henry, Smith, and Agholor for his rookie year. Who knows how good any of those guys would look if they were playing for the Bills tonight. Maybe they should have pushed harder for Hill (thank God they didn't) or Adams this off-season, but they options to add a guy like that are slim.
 

Cellar-Door

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It's unreal that thanks to the penalty, they had first and goal from the 8 and ended up at the 21. Ridiculous.
I'll need to see the replay, but the Henry overthrow looked like it was going to be if not an easy TD, inside the 3 if he puts it out there quick on a line.
 

Cellar-Door

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I don't think you can compare the development pattern of toolsy QBs trying to figure out the game to a guy like Mac. With Allen, Hurts, and even Tua, you knew if they figured it out they'd be monsters because of their physical talent.

Given his athletic and arm strength limitations, what do you think Mac's ceiling is? Is it higher than "average NFL starter"? If not, what are we doing here? Why bother stocking the offense to try to get a guy to develop from mediocre to average? That team is still not going anywhere.
Not really Tua, I agree with the overall point, but Tua isn't that toolsy, he's more like a little better at everything Mac Jones.
 

j44thor

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Mac looks completely broken, at his best he is probably a barely average QB. I doubt very much he is getting any help from Joe Judge who basically destroyed Daniel Jones but I'm just not sure he is worth fixing at this point. Might be time to confirm Zappe isn't the guy and go back to the drawing board. Hell I'd rather give Jacoby Brissett another shot at this point in 2023.
 

Remagellan

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Mac looks completely broken, at his best he is probably a barely average QB. I doubt very much he is getting any help from Joe Judge who basically destroyed Daniel Jones but I'm just not sure he is worth fixing at this point. Might be time to confirm Zappe isn't the guy and go back to the drawing board. Hell I'd rather give Jacoby Brissett another shot at this point in 2023.
Daniel Jones is flourishing without Joe Judge...

It's hard to defend Mac after this game, but let's stop deluding ourselves that he is holding this team back from contention, because this team lacks the talent to contend. The defense is not capable of stopping a playoff caliber offense, and the offensive line couldn't handle a top college defensive line, never mind a professional one. No QB in history could be effective with the sort of "protection" Mac had tonight.
 

Jungleland

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As much Blame as Mac deserves for tonight, I don't have a problem with him yelling at Patricia there. Literally as soon as they blew their first possession they had no chance to dink and dunk their way to victory. Too many noncompetitive plays short of the sticks. Maybe that's on Mac, but some of the third down calls were honestly insulting.
 

Marciano490

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At this point do we really think BB and Patricia are too dumb to call better plays or we just don’t have the QB and the personnel?
 

Cellar-Door

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As much Blame as Mac deserves for tonight, I don't have a problem with him yelling at Patricia there. Literally as soon as they blew their first possession they had no chance to dink and dunk their way to victory. Too many noncompetitive plays short of the sticks. Maybe that's on Mac, but some of the third down calls were honestly insulting.
Hard to say until the all-22 come out, but on a couple of the 3rd and longs Mac took the short route because he didn't trust his own arm (probably rightly) to make a smaller window throw for a 1st.
 

ifmanis5

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Very un-Pats like to have the drama on display. Will definitely be a main storyline for a while. Everyone is to blame for this awful offense, Mac and Matt included. The rest of the league and fans will enjoy the infighting for sure.
 

Cellar-Door

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At this point do we really think BB and Patricia are too dumb to call better plays or we just don’t have the QB and the personnel?
I think that much like with McDaniels before them... people think plays that don't work are all bad. Yeah Patricia calls too many screens, but part of that is he doesn't trust his O-line or QB, because when he tries to be aggressive they screw up. Even in this game, a lot of stuff people complained in the gamethread about, Mac was taking the safety valve instead of throwing downfield, he's stopped even trying to make throws into tighter windows. I thought Patricia dialed up plenty of downfield routes... Mac just either didn't take them or made bad throws.
Edit- Patricia tried some stuff too.... the play that Marcus Jones scored on was great. He mixed in play action, he had some other combinations that looked good. There aren't many things you can do when your O-line can't be trusted to block and your QB can't be trusted to make throws downfield.
 

ifmanis5

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BB and Mac have not spoken to the media from the podium yet so I'll guess they are asked about it.

Bourne says Mac needs more time.
View: https://twitter.com/ZackCoxNESN/status/1598540018552823809

Kendrick Bourne: “I think Mac needs more time. He’s obviously running around, so it’s hard to get the ball downfield.” Later said the Patriots need to scheme things up better on third downs, which have been a real struggle in the last few games.